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When Theaters Make Ticket Mistakes? 177

Posted by Cliff from the don't-let-'em'-take-ya-for-a-ride dept.
justzisguy asks: "During the third week in November I purchased 'Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers' tickets for the opening show at a local theatre. The kiosk I was using said 18 Dec. 12:00 AM as the time of the showing. I decided to purchase four, which came out to be a very reasonable $5.50 (US) each. I found out today that my tickets are actually for the noon showing (12:00 PM) even though the tickets are printed as a midnight showing, caused by a glitch in the computers. I have a final that conflicts with me seeing it at noon, so it is essentially midnight or nothing. I went to discuss the matter with management and they referred me to their 'no refunds or exchanges' policy and showed me a sign which has now been posted on the kiosk that explains that 12:00 PM tickets are really for 12:00 AM. I really don't want to purchase four new tickets at an additional $3.25 each. So here's my question: What is the theatre's obligation to honor these tickets?" While I'm sure the submittor would appreciate suggestions on how he can get the theater in question to live up to its obligations, there is a larger issue at stake here you should think about. What should one do when they find themselves in this situation with other commercial entities?
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When Theaters Make Ticket Mistakes? More

When Theaters Make Ticket Mistakes?

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  • Butting in before press time, here... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Cliff ( 4114 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @08:50AM (#4906397) Homepage Journal

    But instead of editorializing my opinions, on this matter in-article, I'm placing them here, instead...

    When a commercial entity makes a mistake, I believe that it falls on them to correct it via the most simple and expedient method available. A "No refunds or exchanges" policy shouldn't affect this simple rule since it was the commercial entity itself that made the mistake.

    However, in reality things are much different, and hence, consumers are put at risk every time money changes hands. Why should such policies be legal even though it wasn't the consumers fault. Shouldn't the entity accepting the money have some form of obligation to the person paying them to get the service they intended?

    Now, I can see the problems with changing shows like this (the show in question is T-16h:12m and counting, as I type this), but there are bound to be other folks who are in the same boat, and I feel that the theater should at least make a token effort to see how many people got screwed in this manner and whether trades between them would work. If they don't refunds should be provided for those who can't attend the time the theater imposed on them (not their tickets since the tickets state the right time!).

    Of course, there is always the option of trying to sneak in using the existing ticket, but why should consumers resort to subterfuge to get what they intended to in the first place.

    This, quite frankly, is Capitalism Gone Wrong, and I don't think there are any ready solutions, although I would be interested in hearing how the rest of you think.

    • Re:Butting in before press time, here... (Score:5, Informative)

      by xyzzy ( 10685 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @11:45AM (#4907383) Homepage
      It's not an issue of policy at all. There was no little "midnight is noon" sign on the web site, was there? So then the theatre (or the online service -- Fandango?) sold you the wrong item. There are basic legal codes of commerce that apply here.

      First, you're going to have to live up to the fact that you aren't likely to see the movie at midnight :-)

      Second, try calling the online ticket service and see where you get. After that, for god's sake, call the credit card co! It's 99% likely you will get a refund! (in fact, I would simply have made that your first stop).

      Last, if that doesn't work, write to one of those consumer complaint columns they have in practically every newspaper in the US.
      • I should have thought of that! Argh! If the protection applies (there are some weird exclusions, like if you are away from home) then the credit card protection is a practical way to contest piddling sums. In effect, you pay a little bit for their help every time you use the card.

        If dealing with the theater is beyond reason, act quickly with your CC issuer and get payment frozen pending resolution.

        Good advice.

        (He can still see the movie at midnight, but I recommend a non-Twilight Zone theater. Check for clocks running backwards, giant blinking eyes, that sort of thing.)
      • 12 AM could be midnight. 12 AM could be noon.

        The real mistake the theater made was printing an ambiguous time on their ticket. They need to use 12 Noon and 12 Midnight. For midnight, they need to print two dates.
        • 12 AM could be midnight. 12 AM could be noon.

          12 AM is ALWAYS midnight.

          The real mistake the theater made was printing an ambiguous time on their ticket. They need to use 12 Noon and 12 Midnight. For midnight, they need to print two dates.

          It is only ambiguous to the uneducated.

          • 12 AM doesn't exist. However, things like digital watches and alarm clocks have convinced us that it does.
          • 12:01 AM is obviously 1 minute after midnight AM (ante meridian).

            12:01 PM is obviously one minute past noon PM (post -meridian)

            The ante- or post-meridian deal with the time the sun would pass overhead at noon at the equinox.

            So, 12:00 AM is midnight, and 12:00 PM is afternoon, as a convention that works.

            Just show up w. the ticket and demand that you receive what you were sold. It doesn't matter if there's a sign posted elsewhere - your ticket is your binding agreement between the parties.

    • The way it works at my place of work - we screw up, we work to make the customer happy (so we can get more of their money in the future.) If the custmer screws up, still do our best to make them happy, for the same reasons. If it's ourscrew up there's no additional charge to fix things. If the customer screws up, for example they gave us the wrong physical dimensions for an order, we'll make it right, and charge for the diffrence between the first order(wrong order) and the second order(correct order.) Granted we get autographs and authorizations all over the place from the customer to confirm what is ordered is what they had in mind. Even if they sign off on 1"x1", and it turns out they needed 1'x1', we'll work with them to make it right. They should have said they'd honor your ticket at the showing time you expect, or, if they're greedy like us, accept the balance on the ticket and give you one valid for the time you want.

    • When a commercial entity makes a mistake, I believe that it falls on them to correct it via the most simple and expedient method available. A "No refunds or exchanges" policy shouldn't affect this simple rule since it was the commercial entity itself that made the mistake.

      Good, cause it doesn't (at least in any UCC state).

      However, in reality things are much different, and hence, consumers are put at risk every time money changes hands. Why should such policies be legal even though it wasn't the consumers fault. Shouldn't the entity accepting the money have some form of obligation to the person paying them to get the service they intended?

      My suggestion to the poster. Print out and show the manager the UCC [cornell.edu]. Print out the whole thing if you have access to a school computer and feel dickish, or specifically, "The buyer may revoke his acceptance of a lot or commercial unit whose non-conformity substantially impairs its value to him if he has accepted it

      • (a) on the reasonable assumption that its non-conformity would be cured and it has not been seasonably cured; or
      • (b) without discovery of such non-conformity if his acceptance was reasonably induced either by the difficulty of discovery before acceptance or by the seller's assurances.
    • Sorry to be way off topic, but I like, Cliff, that you replied with a comment rather than editorializing your opinion in the article body.

      I didn't notice anybody else commenting on this fact so I thought that I would let you know.

      WRT the article, in certain situations, your ticket is a binding legal contract and if that contract says *12:00AM*, then well you get let in at 12:00AM.

    • there is always the option of trying to sneak in using the existing ticket

      With the right nib pen, a P can quite easily become an A... Given the right font.

      Smoke em.

    • There is probably a state law on the books that covers such things. It may even be under a Bait and Switch or untruthful advertising law.

      You could have always shown up right before the theatre closed and demanded they show the movie showing your perfectly legally ticket, then demand a handsome compensation when they won't show it, like 16 tickets to a later show that you could go to with 15 friends :)

  • Call the Head Office (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Hank Reardon ( 534417 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @11:50AM (#4907410) Homepage Journal
    Most theaters are either franchised or chains.

    Call the corporate offices and explain to them your vast disappointment in the lack of responsibility of the management of the theater. Explain to them that there are several theater chains that you can patronize and that, while this is your favorite movie-haus, you just can't patronize a business that feels it must make its patrons pay for their mistakes.

    Also explain to them that the sign was placed after you bought your tickets. Be sure to let them know that, as somebody who really stands for personal responsibility, you wouldn't have brought this up had the sign been posted earlier.

    Be sure to stress that you see several movies a year, sometimes up to two a month. Tell this story to your friends and let the management know that you're posting your experiences on a large forum that recieves millions of hits a day. You're going to post a follow-up so that the consumers you interact with on this forum (here) can see whether or not this is a theater they'd like to patronize.

    Finally, tell us the theater company, the location and -- this part is really important -- what happens when you call them.

    If they come back and say, "Tough shit," I'll stop my patronage right now.

    Good luck!

    • That would work wonderfully where I live. All of the theatres are owned by Century Theatres.
      • It could still work in small or monopolized towns, it's just a bit more difficult. It really depends on how much effort you actually want to throw at the thing.

        There are consumer advocates in virtually all newspapers (at least in the States; you didn't specify where you are, so I'll assume). Start with those.

        Nicely worded letters stating how disappointed you are in the local theater chain. Something like:

        It is a sad day when the family sanctuary of the Theater has been so blatantly turned into a profit taking venture. I understand that theaters must make money, and I intended to help them do just that. But our local theater has decided that the public at large must pay for
        their mistakes; this is something I cannot support.

        The theater has long been a destination of the families and youth of America; a place to go and spend a little of our hard earned money to be entertained, enjoy a good story and meet with friends.

        I'm sure you get the idea.

        From there, you start talking to your friends, relatives and their friends and relatives; it's a grassroots movement.

        You could even go as far as to organize movie trips that take you to the nearest competing theater, even if it's in another county. Make sure the chartered bus pickes everybody up in front of the theater in your town.

        It just comes down to this: are you pissed enough to do it?

        • The nearest competing theatre is 75 miles away ( I think they are still independantly owned, but I'm not 100% sure ). The local populace has already been ripped off by this particular chain, and after a few days of outrage they went right back to typical movie going habits. The truth of the matter is that the average person is too apathetic to care. While one, two, or even fifty people may care enough to boycott the chain or write letters. With no alternative to this chain in the area the majority will continue to use thier services without so much as a complaint. 50 people on the bottom line isn't really that much when you are the only game in town.
          • The nearest competing theatre is 75 miles away ( I think they are still independantly owned, but I'm not 100% sure ). The local populace has already been ripped off by this particular chain, and after a few days of outrage they went right back to typical movie going habits. The truth of the matter is that the average person is too apathetic to care.

            How often this is the case; it's rather upsetting, too. I think that, given enough thought, it's possible to get people to boycott without them actually boycotting. Again, it all comes down to whether or not you actually want to put the effort in. If you do, more power to ya. If not, no harm, no foul, no good movie theater. :)

            50 people on the bottom line isn't really that much when you are the only game in town.

            50 people in a small town can mean a huge effect in the bottom line of the only theater; but it sounds like this isn't the case.

            You might be able to actually make a little business out of hammering the local chains, if you wanted to. Imagine, if you will, the following:

            Talk to the owners of the other theater that's 75 miles away and see if they'd work with you on this. If they're independently owned, so much the better.

            Place a bunch of ads in the local papers, radio and cable (whatever's in the budget) saying something like the following:

            Tired of the same-old theater experience in [insert your town name here]? We've got the solution! Book a ride on one of our chartered, luxury busses to see the movie at [good theater's name here] in [the other town]! On the bus, we'll provide sodas and popcorn. The theater will provide a nice, catered dinner!

            Get some good food, have the theater place some tables in the auditorium, if they can, and charge a reasonable price for it. If you get enough people, $30 or so should work.

            We have a theater in our town (Phoenix, Arizona) that operates on a similar principal. They have the same first-run movies, but they draw from all over the valley because they offer a good dinner, comfortable seating and personal service during the movie.

            If you're looking for a good business opportunity, you might be able to get another chain (Harkins, AMC, whatever) to help you out...

            All in all, it'd be a ton of work. But you'd get the satisfaction of hurting the other theater and possibly make some cash for yourself in the long run.

        • If they're being dicks to you, be dicks to them.

          You can choose a particularly inopportune time, for them, to decide to resolve the issue. With their attention and resources divided, they won't try to fight for long. If you're holding up a ticket line, or arguing with the manager how you bought tickets for such and such a time, and they want to screw you after the fact etc while people are trying to get to the theater, or the snack line, in one of those holiday mobs. Who wants to deal with that, it's just not worth 20 bucks. They have a "customer relations" log, you've got a damn good reason to make them use it.

          As others said, the credit card company might either write it off, or make the movie theater do it. Since they were dicks about it, be sure to give the tickets to people who'll use them.

          Complain to the company's head quarters, explain how the manager expected a sign after the fact to some how mitigate the company's mistake. I might go so far as to organize a sizable outting of friends to their greatest local competator. I'd take a picture of a large number of happy young people in front of the other companies logo (you don't even have to know the people or even be going to any movie actually), and send them copy with my complaint. Why not offer up a complimentary letter to the other company if all goes well.

          Then there are the better business bureau, local chambers of commerce. If you suspect it's happening on a large scale, why not offer up a letter to the office of your state's attorney general. Who's to say it was an accident. Either way, a large corporate bully cheating a great many people out of small amounts of money that aren't practical to fight over is either a job for Batman or Johnny Law. Now that Batman is trying to pull down a crisp $57 per showing Johnny Law is going to have to step up.

          But the best might be to pursue it at least far enough that you get a story that ends up funny in some respect. Funny stories are fun to hear, fun to tell, and will provide endless opportunties to bust that companies not so good name. When you've got telling the story down, post it publically. Vault.com, for example. The funny story can even be about the letters, Don Novello style. You could, for instance, write a letter to Mars Candy, or whoever makes M&M's, detailing your horrible movie experience as the reason you can no longer, in good conscience, continue to be one of their valuable customers. Their response may be ammusing, and include coupons for free candy. Because, 20 bucks is 20 bucks. But funny stories, those are forever. Like that time I was attacked by midgets before a showing of Full Metal Jacket, sure at the time I wasn't thrilled, but in retrospect ... come on.
    • Situation 1 : You buy the ticket, for the wrong time (your fault)

      You : Hey, I bought the wrong ticket!
      Them : Sorry, no refunds or exchanges

      Situation 2 : They misprint the ticket
      Them : Hey, we misprinted the ticket
      You : Sorry, no refunds or exchanges

      They put up the no exchange rule, bind them to it!
      • BWAHAHAHAHAH!

        That's great!

        Never in a million years would I have thought of throwing this back at them.

        Of course, they'll just say that it's their policy and they can change it if they want...

        For best effectiveness, I'd suggest doing this right out front of the theater when all of the rabid fans are milling about waiting to get in. Make sure to be loud and possibly explain the situation before hand to a few of the patrons.

        Man, I'd pay to see this one...

    • I am dead serious here. Here in CA, it will cost $50 up front (court plus serving the summons) but you get it all back if you win. No doubt at all you will win if they did not have the sign up when you bought the tickets, so you WILL recover the money. Takes a couple of months.

      But here's the reason you do this. As a college student, you might miss a class or two going to court, but they have to send someone in management, whose time is real money. They would be fools to actually show up in court, then lose, and have to pay all the court costs.

      Make SURE they understand you WILL take them to small claims cxourt if they do not cough up the money, and that once filed, you WILL NOT settle for less than tickets + court costs.

  • Your obligation is clear, Sir. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You must attend one of the showings, either one really although both would be good, accompanied by several boxes of live mice (I advise calling pet stores and getting snake food). Any types of insects you can collect are also good. Consider stink bombs, and recruit friends.

    Another option is to get a number of those small "sampler" bottles of vodka and bribe the attendance of a number of homeless people, and hand out more vodka in the movie. I prefer mice because they are cheaper and less likely to stab you for the rest of the vodka.
    • My impression is that there is no 12am showing; hence the poster could show up at that time and the building would be closed. Otherwise they should, indeed, let him in.
    • paraphrased:
      eh, you want to know how to get a free movie, eh? you need a jar of moths, like this, and wait until the end of the movie, when you know what's gonna happen, eh... Then you open the jar, eh. All the moths will swarm around the projector light, and you start demanding that da' hosers who run the place give you a refund because the moths ruined the movie, eh...

      can anyone else do a better job remembering that scene than I did?

  • What jerks! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MacAndrew ( 463832 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @11:51AM (#4907421) Homepage
    Now that that's out of my system...

    As a matter of law, the theater is wrong. They can't later stick on the sign saying, "By the way, at this theter night means day." Even with the sign I think they'd be dancing on the edge of fraud. Mention this word to them, "fraud." You were induced to buy something that is worthless to you by their false representations. The only wrinkle is the discount price, which might theoretically have put you on notice, but I don't buy it.

    As a practical matter, the amount involved is peanuts, which doesn't mean you aren't rightfully mad. It sounds like you explained things to them properly. Make sure you're talking to a real decisionmaker, as far up the chain as you can get. Write a letter even! Middle-lings sometimes like to assert their power unthinkingly.

    The practical alternatives are not many. You could (1) picket; (2) badmouth them every chance you get; or (3) complain to the BBB and seek a settlement. I vote for #3.

    Sympathies -- I hate being treated like that, as if their stupidity were my fault. (I wouldn't use that argument with them. :)

  • Scalp your ticket (Score:3, Informative)

    by n1ywb ( 555767 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @11:51AM (#4907427) Homepage Journal
    Problem solved.

    Or argue with the manager, loudly, in the lobby, in front of lots of other people, untill he caves in and gives you a refund or exchange.
    • Or argue with the manager, loudly, in the lobby, in front of lots of other people, untill he caves in and gives you a refund or exchange.

      I appreciate that this was modded Funny, but there's a serious side to it.

      Around the time I finished my degree, I went into my bank, looking to take out a loan so I could buy a car to get to my new job and put down the deposit to rent a place. I wasn't asking for a vast sum of money, and I had a contract in my hand from my future employer that would provide a reasonable guarantee of my ability to repay what I was asking for.

      I was told that, while the person I spoke to understood my situation, the computer would automatically reject any application for a loan while I was still a student. Further, if he even tried just to see, it would damage my credit record, as a "loan denied" tag would get stuck against my name for years.

      So, I thanked him for his time, and left. Two hours later I returned, having opened an account with an alternative bank who were more than happy to match or better every term I had with my existing accounts, credit card, etc. and were also prepared to offer me a small loan to get started with my working life.

      I walked up to the front desk, and just about loud enough for the other few dozen people in the branch to overhear, I said that I'd like to withdraw the balance on both of my accounts, clear the credit card and then close all three, please. "Oh, dear," the lady there said. "Is there anything we can do to make you change your mind?"

      Doubleplusooops. :-)

      Guess what happened for the next five minutes, in front of a room full of customers... Actually, make that ex-customers. Two other people, presumably in a similar position to my own, promptly moved to the queue behind me and closed their own accounts as I left.

      Sometimes, the only way to make a commercial entity see sense is to vote with your wallet. Other times, bad PR is far more effective. Either way, it pays to stand up for yourself using language they understand. Make sure you give word-of-mouth credit and customer loyalty to the good places as well, and between the two, you'll find your life gets far easier. :-)

    • Or argue with the manager, loudly, in the lobby, in front of lots of other people, untill he caves in and gives you a refund or exchange.

      I agree completely, but I would replace "a refund or exchange" with "what you paid for".

      It might be nice to throw in some threats, like registering a complaint with the BBB (very simple to do and very effective, at least in CA) or even suing them in Small Claims Court (also simple, if time consuming, in CA). A typical response to the later is something like "fine, you'll be hearing from our lawyers". Be prepared for that, with "There are no lawyers allowed in Small Claims, and if you don't show up you lose!" (again, in CA) My dad has used this to great effect on numerous occasions, even against huge corporations (his last victim was Earthlink, who tried to double-bill him).

      Remember that these aren't empty threats, they are breaking the law. They gave you something other than what you paid for, and that's called "Fraud".

  • Time (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fredrikj ( 629833 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @11:51AM (#4907428) Homepage
    Time to switch to 24 hours time.

    • Right! (Score:2)

      by uradu ( 10768 )
      But the chances of that happening in the US are about the same as adopting the metric system anytime soon. Using 24-hour time (not "military" time as some call it in the US--the day doesn't have 2400 hours, plus skipping the delimiter tends to imply that the minutes are base 10) is simple, intuitive and unambiguous. It also makes calculating time differentials easier. Using 12-hour time leads to nothing but confusion and is counter-intuitive anyway: you go 9am, 10am, 11am, and then suddenly to 12pm. From a purely mathematical point of view it's messing up continuity.

  • No obligation (Score:5, Informative)

    by PhysicsGenius ( 565228 ) <physics_seeker@y ... om minus painter> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @11:52AM (#4907434)
    "12:00 PM" and "12:00 AM" are not meaningful terms. There is "12 noon" and there is "12 midnight". AM and PM are contractions for "ante meridian" and "post meridian" where meridian is the point where the sun is at it highest point (or same on the other side of the world). Therefore it makes no sense to speak of the 12:00 that comes before or after that highest point, because it is defined as being that highest point.

    Thus they can put whatever letters they want on their tickets and it doesn't matter, because they said the "12:00" part and that was accurate.

    • Re:No obligation (Score:3, Informative)

      by MacAndrew ( 463832 )
      Huh?

      Then 12:00 would be ambiguous -- meaning both midnight and noon?

      Regardless, there is a standard understanding of what 12 AM and 12 PM are.

      There, I've humored you enough.
      • Yes, it is ambiguous. People should not be putting AM and PM next to it for that reason. 12 Noon and 12 Midnight are the correct way to do it. Also, note that if you use 12 Midnight, you need to print TWO dates.

        If I ran a theater and didn't want to debug the ticket printing software, I would circumvent the problem by starting the movie at 12:01 AM.
        • You'll notice that 12:01 AM shows up in a lot of contracts and such, either to dispell uncertainty or because people aren't sure when the next half of the day starts.

          I have to admit I have trouble telling 12:01 AM from 12:01 PM, so maybe the 24 hour clock would help. But I'm American and no more likely to give up 12-hour time as to surrender the three-teaspoons-to-a-tablespoon nuttiness. This time thing doesn't come up too often, though, except with this person confusing the kiddie matinee with the night owl showing -- and quite pleased to pocket the surprise discount (technically that's wrongful, too, if he/she had any awareness that the problem was probably an error ... of course you always look and feel silly reporting that you've been undercharged ... charge me more, dammit!).
    • It is agreed upon by all that 12AM is 12 midnight, and 12PM is 12 noon. There is no conflict. Yes it would be better had they used the terms 12 midnight and 12 noon, but they didn't.
    • Regardless of the pedantry, it was the cinema that printed 'AM'. If they're going to use ambiguous terms then they're going to have to accept the most logical way to interpret them, which is with "12 AM" being midnight; it wouldn't make sense to assume midnight as "12 PM", because "12.01" is clearly "AM".

      Besides, using AM for midnight is a universally accepted standard. The poster is trolling for an argument.

      And another point occurs: even if with formal logic "12 PM" midday was incorrect (which it isn't: midday acutally occurs instantaneously between 1159 and 1200), midnight, being defined as the beginning of the day, is indeed ante-meridian.
    • So, the lesson to be learned from this when writing software (or even just talking to people) is instead of saying: "the meeting is at 12", say "the meeting is at noon". It's not that hard to do two extra test & replaces - even if it takes you 1/2 an hour, it will save countless hours of confusion (and discussion in forums such as this).

      And if you're saying "no, people will know what I mean, so I don't have to", you're missing the point of why this article was posted. Technically, your code can be perfect, but if there is ambiguity in what something displayed means, that's a User Interface bug. The whole point of software is eventually to make some user's life easier, so despite how annoying/stupid the users are (I work for a company that does data entry software, we've had people call in to our Technical Support and ask how to type capital letters), show a little bit of intelligence yourself.
      • Yes, of course, I mean it happens so often that we have a meeting at 12 midnight, so people are bound to be confused. Just as when i see we should have a meeting at 10, so many people will rock at at night time.
    • There is "12 noon" and there is "12 midnight".
      No, there is "noon" and "midnight." The "12" is redundant since neither noon nor midnight occurs at any hour other than 12.

  • You bought them with a credit card right? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by benwb ( 96829 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @11:54AM (#4907453)
    I assume that you did because you bought it at a kiosk. You tried to address the situation with the theater, they didn't make it right, so the next step is to call up your credit card company. Tell them the story, and have them give you the procedure for disputing a charge. You'll probably have to write them a letter, but it should be pretty easy and painless.
    • Agreed. Call your credit card company. That should do the trick. If that doesn't work call the head office of the chain. Be polite, civil and firm. They misprinted tickets you should get your money back. Period. Also I can't believe the theater chain in question wasn't posted here. POST THE CHAIN HERE!!!! The /. community will certainly get a response, if you don't.

      -Sean

  • Did you use a credit card? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Breakerofthings ( 321914 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @11:55AM (#4907460)
    Call Visa (or whomever) and ask for a charge-back. Tell them the theater refused to honor the tickets. They will refund your tickets. Just as importantly... Credit card merchants are evaluated on their chargebacks by Visa, et al. Too many (too high a ratio, or too many total) and they lose their merchant account. Once gone, it is virtually impossible to get back. Thus, MERCHANTS CARE ABOUT KEEPING CHARGEBACKS DOWN, which is one excellent incentive NOT to fuck your customers (at least those using cards). This mechanism is in place to protect people in similar situations... make use of it.

  • be noisy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sweet reason ( 16681 ) <mbloore@@@yahoo...com> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @12:00PM (#4907519) Homepage
    they are trying to screw you for their own convenience.

    make a big noisy fuss right in the lobby at a time when there are lots of paying customers about. demand that they either refund your money or honour the tickets which you purchased in good faith. make sure everyone hears that the theater is not trustworthy.

    don't make threats or swear a lot. you want the customers there to be sympathetic to you, so that the management looks bad to them, and you don't want to give them grounds to have you forcibly removed. don't let them lure you into some office out of public view; you want to give them bad publicity.

    if you can't bring yourself to make a public fuss, then take the theater to small claims court for fraud. just suggesting that should make management decide that keeping your money isn't worth their time.

    don't forget that they have cheated you. don't take it lying down.
  • at $3.25 a shot, im sure they are sold out.

    im paying $5.50 a shot in Portland, or. consider yourself lucky.

  • Small Claims (Score:2, Informative)

    by Outland Traveller ( 12138 )
    Sounds like a perfect case for small claims court. You can submit a claim yourself and do not need a lawyer. You may have to wait a while to get a hearing scheduled but once that starts the whole thing is usually over in minutes. You should be able to get them to settle with you, because it will cost them more than 22$ in time just to show up and defend themselves.

    Even if they do show up, having the printed tickets as evidence should give you an easy win.

    Check out your local laws!

    • Sounds like a perfect case for small claims court. You can submit a claim yourself and do not need a lawyer.

      Please do all of us here at Slashdot a favor and don't just go to any small claims court -- go to The People's Court! Or any one of those televised court shows. And, for God's sake Man, wear a medevial costume in court! You're trying to impress the judge how badly you need to see this film! Nothing would say that better than dressing up like your favorite LotR character! Plus, it will make it more likely that your People's Court appearance will actually get aired!

      Go for it! We're all counting on you!

      GMD

  • Skip the stupid final. What kind of geek are you?
  • You mean you haven't already seen the movie on Kazaa?

    j/k It is their error they should either have a movie at midnight or replace your tickets with another time. Putting up a sign after the fact is not a legal course of action for them, imho. It will protect them from people who purchase tickets after the sign was up but not when bought the tickets.

    How you get those tickets I don't know. Hound them I guess or reschedule your final.

    Honestly though can you really watch a 3 hour movie starting at midnight. Especially when you have a test to go to in 9 hours after the movie was finished. You apparently weren't to worried about the final to begin with.

    • Not being worried about the final is one thing, not showing up for it is something else altogether. I've had a lot of finals that were quite easy and I didn't worry about them at all, but I still had to be there to take them.

  • Don't be afraid to get angry and loud (Score:4, Insightful)

    by phamlen ( 304054 ) <phamlen@maiRASPl.com minus berry> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @12:37PM (#4907922) Homepage
    Speaking from experience on both sides of the counter, the number one rule for "getting a refund" is to get angry. No venue wants an angry customer yelling in their lobby. On the other hand, quiet upset customers are perfectly acceptable. So don't be afraid to be loud and upset.

    If I were in your shoes, I would
    1) Show up at 11:30 PM - ignore the "12:00 midnight means noon" sign.
    2) Get very loudly angry at the usher who says "there is no midnight showing." Start saying "I don't understand. I have tickets that say 12:00 midnight."
    3) If the manager does not come over, ask the usher to get the manager.
    4) Again, be loud and demand a refund. Say loudly things along the lines of "I have these tickets that say 12:00 AM. You're saying you don't have a film at this time. I want a refund for these worthless tickets." Be very upset. Refuse to be consoled.

    I've used this technique when I've forgotten the credit card I used to purchase the tickets with. In both cases, the manager has told the usher to let me be seated.
    • So your the bastard that keeps doing that!
    • The important thing is to get a manager. The first line people have no authority to make changes or decisions. In my line of thinking, the first line in any customer service facility is to deal with happy customers and those angry ones too timid to speak up. _Always_ ask for a supervisor when you are complaining and the front line isn't working.
      • _Always_ ask for a supervisor when you are complaining and the front line isn't working.

        Works great in person. On a phone, you'll probably find everyone in the call centre has "supervisor" in their job title, so they can shift you around to one of their equally powerless colleagues as a first move. Always get the name and job title of the person you speak to, and ask a black-and-white question about whether they have more power to help you than the last person you spoke to.

        One of the funniest experiences I ever had was when a phone company, who had apparently gotten a contract to supply hundreds of student rooms but forgotten to hire the manpower to install it all, gave us the "call centre tennis" treatment. Someone looked up the (publicly available) contact details of their managing director, and called him at home at 9pm on a Saturday night to complain.

        By 10pm we had two vans full of engineers out to install the phones for everyone in the block whose order was running late.

        • I entirely agree with Anonymous Brave Guy, that it's really tricky to get a real supervisor. But there is a way around it! Here's what I do when I get stuck and need a real supervisor.

          1) If possible, get the name of the person you're talking with.
          1) Hang up on the current person (politely or angrily, your choice.)
          2) Make up a complaint/problem that can be easily resolved (ie, you want to check your mailing address, etc.)
          3) Be very pleasant, and when the person helps you, say "You've been really great. You're such a change from the other people I've talked to. I really appreciate it. Do you have a supervisor or someone I can mention this to?"
          4) You'll be transferred to a manager without fail.

  • You pay $3.25 for movie tickets? Where is this place? Outer Mongolia (no offense to the less developed economy of, or the peoples of, Outer Mongolia)? I'm playing that at least, it's the matinee price. For $3.50 a piece, I agree with another poster. Buy more of them ... that's what student loans are for. Or at least that's what I told myself when I bought my Quadra 840av.
    • I think tickets in my area (the Philadelphia 'burbs) are over $7 now.. certainly not $3.25, even for the elderly students during matinee hours. :)

  • The answer for any situation like this. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CTD ( 615278 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @12:44PM (#4907963) Homepage
    I've worked way too much retail/serivce as a youth, so I've got a line on this one.

    If the service/product you have been given is not up to par, or you have been cheated (our movie example is a great one), your first stop is the manager. If they are a good manager who is worth their pay they will take care of you, knowing that you are their paycheck.

    If they are an idiot who is in retail/service management because they hung out too long and got promoted without merit you have to work a little. When they rebuff you, restate your position, and the importance of the issue to you as a continuing customer. If they still do not treat you properly, don't get mad and yell and scream. That makes you look like an irrational idiot. You want to make the manager look like an irrational idiot...

    Go home. Look up another store in the chain/franchise. Call that store and ask for the manager. When you get the manager on the phone, tell them that you have a customer service issue where you were treated poorly and would like their help. Immediately let them know that it was not at their store but at a different location. This will take that manager off the defensive.

    Then explain the situation, why you feel you were treated wrong, and how the manager responded when you went to them for help. Be sure to use that managers name. When you are finished telling them your story (and be brief, they have their own store to run) ask them if you can have a corporate customer serice number, and the store number for the other store if they can find it.

    Usually the other manager will be more than happy to help you because you are not causing them a problem, or their store. They will tell you that you were treated wrong, how sorry they are, and then give you someone to call for further help. Heck, some of them will do it just to see their competetion for District Manager take a few knocks.

    Now that you have the number to the real person you need, be sure to thank the manager who did help you, and tell them that all of your transactions with "STORE X" will be at their location from here out. They like that because it sounds like money in the bank. Then ask for their name/store # so you can tell the higher up's how well that manager did to help you despite not being a part of the problem.

    Now, call the higher ups. Explain your situation. Be sure to tell them the name of the manager who screwed you, and the manager who helped you. Know what city each store/location is in. The store #'s if possible. Stay calm. From this point your case will be handled or escalated to someone who can handle it.

    If you are feeling punitive, request that the store be audited. Most chains have 'secret shoppers' who go in and inspect things without identifying themselves. This can cause lots of troubles. Also give your area 'Weights & Measures' office a call. Tell them that the product they sold was not marked correctly (this was a BIG fine when I worked in California).

    At the end of the day, if you can get someone at the corporate level, you will be taken care of, possibly given something extra for your inconvenience, and the manager in quesiton who did you wrong will have a note in their file that says "asshead to customer on xx/yy/20zz" which hurts their long time promotion status (don't feel guilty, jerks should not get promoted in a customer serivce industry).

    Of course, if it's a mom & pop shop and not a chain/franchise, you are pretty much at their mercy. Slash their tires!

  • A Couple of Options (Score:4, Informative)

    by mcowger ( 456754 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @01:16PM (#4908227)
    First, all throughout this process, get everyone's names that you talk to up front, and make sure you conspicuously write them down. People are more honest when they know they will be held accountable for their actions. Also, make SURE you are in public, next to the ticket line or something. You want people to hear this. If he asks you to go somewhere to discuss this, say the following:

    "One would assume you are proud of how you treat your customers, wouldn't you want others to hear what you have to say?"

    Go to the theater, and ask to speak with the manager. Normally someone will get you him or her quickly.

    Remember to always be polite and kind - you want them to think they are being good people

    Tell the manager your story, as factually as possible. Tell him about the lack of the sign, and show him your tickets.

    Tell him he can make a happy and loyal customer right now. If he refuses to honor/change the tickets:

    * Tell him you will be writing a letter to
    * Tell him you will be disputing the CC charge
    * Tell him you will speaking with the Better Business Buereau in your area.

    Companies really care about their CC ratings (chargebacks are expensive for them, and Visa gets awefully pissy to the merchent when they happen). They also care abotu BBB ratings. Alot. More than you might think.

    Lastly, ask for the phone # of the managers supervisor. Everyone gets scared of people calling their managers.

    • * Tell him you will speaking with the Better Business Buereau in your area.

      Wait til he's taking a drink of soda to tell him that one. Then you can watch him shoot it out his nose before he doubles over laughing. The BBB is practically worthless usually. Unless it a very serious case of fraud (the kind that might involve the cops or the FBI), they won't help at all.

  • Policy or no policy... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DuckDuckBOOM! ( 535473 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @01:19PM (#4908242)
    ...you can get back at least your $$$ or exchange for another show. Probably more.

    Don't bother with the manager on duty, who probably has just enough authority to wipe his own ass. Write to the VP of operations or customer relations (big mega-chain), or general manager or president (regional / local chain).

    The strategy is to make the reader believe that his theaters are about to get a liberal dose of bad PR, which no company in a highly-competitive service industry will risk. The tactic is to exhibit class, wit, and politeness to a fault (Patrick Stewart mode), in the course of making it explicitly clear that the company has done you wrong and owes you big-time for this affront. Subtle digs at the competence, intelligence, ancestry, etc. of staff and management are desirable as long as the aforementioned class, etc. is maintained.

    Explain the circumstances in detail. State that the purchase of a theater ticket constitutes a contract (which it does), which is rendered no less valid or binding by their kiosk programmers' inability to distinguish noon from midnight, or by his staff's attempt to turn night into day with a disclaimer scrawled on a piece of cardboard (it probably was.) Mention the BBB, local TV news operations that love consumer-advocacy issues like this, the presence of a half-dozen competing theaters in the area (there usually are), etc. Close out by declaring that, while they have every right to maintain their no-refunds-etc. policy, your policy is to avoid like the plague businesses that rip people off through the biz's own incompetence, and you intend to apply same from this point forward unless reparations are forthcoming.
    Oh, and, as an aside (especially if this is a national chain), note that you have already mentioned this incident on one of the Internet's most popular and respected tech forums, and that several hundred thousand avid movie-goers are interested in the outcome.

    I suspect you won't have to wait long for an answer. A friend's S.O. wrote such a letter addressing a similar situation (dual literature / psych major; well-qualified to write complaint letters!) and ended up with a dozen passes, a letter of apology from the theater manager, and flowers!

    You may or may not get (or want) flowers, but you'll probably be comped pretty well for your trouble. Not to mention the satisfaction of being able to redeem a bunch of freebies to the manager you know (and he probably suspects) was thoroughly bitch-slapped by his bosses at your instigation not long before.

  • I found out today that my tickets are actually for the noon showing (12:00 PM) even though the tickets are printed as a midnight showing, caused by a glitch in the computers. I have a final that conflicts with me seeing it at noon, so it is essentially midnight or nothing. I went to discuss the matter with management and they referred me to their 'no refunds or exchanges' policy and showed me a sign which has now been posted on the kiosk that explains that 12:00 PM tickets are really for 12:00 AM.

    So? You don't have a 12:00 PM ticket, do you? Or, if you do, then you can see the movie at 12:00 AM, like you want. Maybe you're making a big deal over nothing and you weren't clear enough when you talked to the manager. Take the shit out of your mouth and try again, there's probably a new manager there by now anyway.

  • I think the theater is sleazy - putting up that sign is an admission that they know their tickets are causing confusion - but it sounds like you were offered a reasonable choice: either use the noon tickets puchased at matinee prices, or pay the difference for the midnight showing and go to it.

    Now, if they said you had to pay $8+/ticket for a second set of tickets, instead of just the $3+/ticket or so difference, that would be a different matter. But you can't reasonably expect them to offer the midnight show at matinee prices - even if you're an honest victim, you know there are many people who would deliberately exploit this policy.
  • They actually made it so you cannot make your exam, although you really made an effort to help them correct their mistake.

    Therefore, sue them for your damages:
    an extra year in college (about 30000 dollars?)
    income you will miss (the difference in salary between your student job and a regular job, another 30000 dollars). Tell them you will discuss terms, and maybe a settlement, but only when they come with a reasonable proposition.
    • Therefore, sue them for your damages: an extra year in college (about 30000 dollars?) income you will miss (the difference in salary between your student job and a regular job, another 30000 dollars).

      Trust me, when you have to explain to a potential employer that you missed your finals because you were arguing with a cinema about the difference between 12am and 12pm so you could go see LoTR:TTT on the day it opened, you're going to be losing a lot more than $30k in salary income over your lifetime...

  • Crap like this really pisses me off: "We've got your money, now go screw yourself, sucker, because we can afford more lawyers than you can."

    So post the theater's name! Post the name of the chain!

    And post a phone number for each, for the local theater and for the corporate office.

    Name names! And give the phone numbers!

    Let these slimy bastards realize, along with your $5.50 (or whatever) a public relations cost all out of proportion to their profit from screwing you.

    Let them deal with dozens -- no hundreds -- of /.ers calling both the local theater and the national offices to enquire why they can't tell day from night, and more importantly, why they can't treat their customers right when they're fucked up.

    I'm sick and tired of businesses feeling they can screw their customers with impunity. Let's give these smug bastards a slashback.

    Have you, gentle reader, been screwed by some smug business? Of course you have. Now's your chance to strike back. Help this guy out, and get some of your dignity back at the same time!

    Let them know you won't take it anymore!

  • Doesn't Slashdot have EDITORS?? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mbstone ( 457308 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @02:41PM (#4908902)
    First of all, why is this trivial $13 dispute "stuff that matters??" Where is the adult supervision at Slashdot?

    IAAL. You could take them to small claims court, but your time is valuable. I personally have a Dispute Threshold of $100. Any disputes less than that, I absorb my loss for the sake of economy. I encourage all readers to have and abide by a Dispute Threshold for the sake of your sanity.

    If you are a homeless person or a college student, you may place a lesser value on your time and energy than I do, which is OK. If your Dispute Threshold is $12.99 or less, by all means spend the $50 and a day of your time and take them to court. Maybe you will learn something.
    • >> Where is the adult supervision at Slashdot?

      Well said. Apparently, the "editors" are busy watching Japanese cartoons.

      Seriously, if they want to make this place a haven for college sophomores, I wish they'd be explicit about it. I'm getting tired of wading through crap like this. This guy's not the first guy to be ripped off for small change. If he hasn't lived long enough to know how to handle it, why should we care?
    • Probably more the principle of the thing.

      I'm getting fed up with not being thought of as a customer, but as a consumer. Granted, my purchases (or not) doesn't make a single dent in how well a company does. But that doesn't mean I should be treated like sh*t, or have to deal with rules that make it more convenient for the vendor than myself.

      If the web site said midnight, and the tickets read noon, then that's plain and simple fraud regardless of their rules. Tell 'em if you don't get satisfaction from them, then your next call is to your lawyer, followed by the attorney general.
    • First of all, why is this trivial $13 dispute "stuff that matters??"

      Ummm, 4 tickets at $5.50 each comes out to $22.
  • Wasn't this on FOX last Thursday, right after "When Planes Fall Down"?

  • Let me get this straight. So you have a 12 PM ticket, and the sign tells you it's really for 12 AM, which is what you wanted in the first place. Or did you say that backwards?
  • Attention programmers,

    Unless you have a really valid reason for using 12:00 AM when referring to midnight, you should really consider using 11:59 PM or 12:01 AM to relieve ambiguity and prevent confusion.

    Yes, it stands to reason that if 12:01 AM means one minute after midnight that 12:00 AM would be midnight, but people are stupid and seem to think it means noon. Even if they do figure it out, they will wonder, "12:00 AM Dec 18, is that one minute before 12:01 AM on Dec 18, or one minute after 11:59 PM on Dec 18?"

    An even better solution is to adopt 24-hour time: use 0000 for midnight and 2359 for the last minute of the day. That way, people can grumble about having to learn to tell (metric?) time all over again.

    Once and for all, let it be known that 12:00 AM, midnight, 0000 hours, is the first minute, the beginning of the day, not the end!!! Scream it from the mountaintops! Let it descend to the plain! May it echo across the valleys througout the land!

    It's really stupid, when you think about it, to have the first hour of the day be named twelve. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first."
  • The fact of the matter is the theater people have the power to do quite a bit for you, and (in general practice), they realize just how valueless an additional screening of a post-first-weekend release can be. You won't get a midnight showing for opening night... they can't do that, and equally importantly that has a lot of financial value to them... Those tickets could probably be scalped for $500 dollars. However, they would probably be willing to compromise on a later ticket for that movie, and a ticket to a non-first run.

    They can... It all depends upon the emotional state of the person you are talking to. Having been on both sides similar equations, DON'T argue this in front of other patrons. You need them to cave in, realizing that it is easier to give in to your reasonable request than to continue to fight it. If they are in front of a group of people they are far less likely to A: be reasonable and B: show weakness. You want them to nod and go "OK, fine. here."

    The fact of the matter is that the person behind the counter has a LOT of leeway in any industry. A friend went into a Starbucks and decreed that they liked the marble cake but that it should be one dollar. The guy at the counter said "OK," and made it .99c. This is not programming, this is not a system, these are people. Some of these people have forgotten that they aren't programming, but most of them relish the little power which they wield... It's their prescious. Go back and talk to the manager, and simply don't walk away until a compromise has been forged.

    Or show up to the Midnight showing with your 12:00 AM tickets. The person taking tickets will usually be more reasonable than the manager. Or more negligent. Either way works for you.

    -C
  • There aren't any jobs out there so bag the final and get the super extreme jumbo large bucket 'O corn and enjoy the movie.

  • After my refusing to exchange the tickets for the "real" midnight showing for an additional $3.25 each and convincing another manager today that it was in her best interest to honor these tickets as purchased using several of the ideas that my fellow /.'ers came up with, I am proud to say that I will be attending the premiere showing tonight. I never received an apology and she maintains that she is going way beyond the call of duty in her correcting what was a "computer's mistake" (blaming some poor German programmers). I still do not feel like she truly values my continued business and I will have to decide if I will continue to watch my movies there, but for now I'm going to tally this up as a victory.

    Thank you so much for everyone's support! You guys are awesome!!!

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