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## Ximian to Bundle StarOffice 6.0210

rainmanjag writes "A Ximian press release is reporting that Ximian will be bundling StarOffice 6.0 for Linux with the packaged version of Ximian Desktop Professional, Red Carpet Express, and Red Carpet CorporateConnect." This means that both Ximian and Mandrakesoft are offering comprehensive software bundles which happen to include StarOffice 6.0, a package which would otherwise cost more by itself than either of the bundles.
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## Ximian to Bundle StarOffice 6.0

• #### i know its been said before... (Score:1)

... but open office works just fine... personally i use mandrake 8.2 with open office and it works great
• #### Re:i know its been said before... (Score:3, Informative)

StarOffice includes templates, fonts and clipart that OOo doesn't.

....sooo....you just take the template fonts and clipart from your StarOffice 6.0 beta (which was free for all takers) and put them into your OpenOffice 1.0 setup. :)

Seriously, someone ought to put together an Open Sourced set of templates, fonts, clipart, etc. And no I did NOT just volunteer! Stop looking at me like that! :P

• #### Re:i know its been said before... (Score:2)

Indeed, templates and clipart are really what most people are looking for. There are a jillion office suites on the market, but the ones that sell best are the ones with the most comprehensive collections of templates. Countless times I've heard that people prefer Microsoft Works to Office, because of the templates. Publisher has always been a big seller too. People don't want design flexibility. They want the computer to design their documents for them.
• #### Red Carpet? (Score:1, Funny)

Red Carpet Express, and Red Carpet CorporateConnect

How about Red Carpet Muncher? Sorry, just had to say that, people keep calling me "Carpet muncher" in GTA3, and you know what? I am! :-)

• #### Diffrence (Score:1)

Is Star Office that much better than open office.org? Or is it just the name/image thing?
• #### Re:Diffrence (Score:1, Informative)

by Anonymous Coward
Differences are listed here [openoffice.org]
• #### Re:Diffrence (Score:3, Informative)

Is Star Office that much better than open office.org? Or is it just the name/image thing?
Better, maybe. But that's not the fundamental difference. If there's a problem with Star Office, it's Sun's problem. If there's a problem with Open Office, it's the user's problem. This doesn't mean that Sun can or will fix any problems faster than Open Office. It's just where the ultimate responsibility lies. If I'm a PHB, I will buy Star Office. If I'm a crafty PHB, I will buy Star Office, download Open Office, and use whatever seems to work best.
• #### Re:Diffrence (Score:5, Informative)

on Sunday May 26, 2002 @03:36AM (#3586377)
Ah, the eternal question about StarOffice/OpenOffice.org differences. According to OpenOffice.org's FAQ [openoffice.org], the differences are as follows:

The source code available at OpenOffice.org does not consist of all of the StarOffice code. Usually, the reason for this is that Sun pays to license third party code to include in StarOffice that which it does not have permission to make available in OpenOffice.org. Those things which are or will be present in StarOffice but are not available on OpenOffice.org include:
• Certain fonts (including, especially, Asian language fonts)
• The database component (Adabas D)
• Some templates
• Extensive Clip Art Gallery
• Some sorting functionality (Asian versions)
• Certain file filters

In addition, Sun also has a FAQ [sun.com] that says:

StarOffice 6.0 softwre is a commercial product aimed at organizations and consumers while OpenOffice.org 1.0 is aimed at users of free software, independent developers and the open source community. StarOffice includes licensed-in, third-party technology such as:
• Spellchecker and thesaurus
• Database component (Software AG Adabas D).
• Select fonts including Windows metrically equivalent fonts and Asian language fonts
• Select filters, including WordPerfect filters and Asian word processor filters
• Integration of additional templates and extensive clipart gallery

In addition to product differences, StarOffice offers:
• Sun installation and user documentation
• 24x7 Web based support for enterprises and consumers
• Help desk support
• Warranties and indemnification guarantee
• Training
• Professional services for migration and deployment

Hope it helps!
• #### What's Ximian? (Score:1, Funny)

by Anonymous Coward
rpm -q -a | grep ximian

on a default Red Hat installation returns nothing. So whatever Ximian is, it looks like some knowledgeable people think it's useless.
• #### Re:What's Ximian? (Score:2, Informative)

Poor little troll.

Red Hat ship a whole ton of Ximian code. Some of it like Evolution in 7.3 is really rather good too.
• #### Re:What's Ximian? (Score:1)

Sorry Alan, but he is right, I know Evolution is in 7.3 (OT: I use it and think it is great), but his example does produce no results.
• #### Re:What's Ximian? (Score:1)

Alan said CODE! NOT RPMs! read it again! sheesh!
• #### Re:What's Ximian? (Score:1)

Ok this is actually off topic but... who the hell mods ALAN COX as anything but +5 ??? I mean.... oh nevermind.
• #### Re:What's Ximian? (Score:1)

Well, if you haven't heard about Ximian, you can't be much of a judge. Redhat doesn't do everything right, but Ximian isn't much good. Redhat should package their own gnome, and Ximian is more of a cutting edge, easy to use system. Redhat wants stable, slow and old (no offence).
• #### Re:What's Ximian? (Score:1)

dude!!!?

What planet are u from go check oput the list of ximiam coderes 1/2 of them work at Red Hat and the gnome that come with Red hat is just a tweaked version of Ximian wich is just pre packeged and marketed GNOME. Its free software remember, All these guys have to have jobs somewhere a.k.a... Red hat Ximian, Sun , etc etc. They all contribute to GNOME.org. Then theay aklll tweak it how they want.

You really got to take a closer look at how this shit works Buddy.
• #### On a related note... (Score:5, Informative)

on Saturday May 25, 2002 @10:21PM (#3585785) Journal
OpenOffice 1.0 is available through Red Carpet.
• #### Clearly Marked Packages (Score:2, Interesting)

I think it would be a good idea that this version of Ximian contains non-free software, much like Debian letting you force no non-free stuff.

Many Linux newbies get into the "sport" for various political reasons, and through buying Ximian, they are no longer using a "pure" open-source desktop.

• #### Buyer beware (Score:3, Insightful)

Beware that if you want to be productive in an 'office suite' sense (exchanging documents with others, etc), not in a 'I write C code all day' sense, you might need to offend some GPL/FSF zealot's idea of how you should operate your computer.

Yeah, I'm not saying that it's right for everyone...
Heck, I'm typing this message on OS X.

I wasn't suggesting that you were in particular, but I've known a couple debian people who've gone off on that 'only free stuff' mindset. One debian guy (wasn't *quite* that stringent) works in my office. It took awhile in the 'real world' of computer use (something more than C development) for him to realize that you simply can't survive like that. He's using an XP laptop now. :)

I realized after I sent the last one that it may have looked like I accused you of saying something you weren't saying. Sorry.
• #### Re:Buyer beware (Score:4, Insightful)

on Sunday May 26, 2002 @01:40AM (#3586183)

...you might need to offend some GPL/FSF zealot's idea of how you should operate your computer.

Its a good point. In today's environment, one often has to make trade offs with what technology works the best. However, the concern for Freedom shouldn't be only the concern of zealots.

The IT industry is full of examples; proprietary, closed technology best bennifits the producers of that technology. And sometimes that bennifit comes at the expense of their customers - those who are using / implementing that technology. Which... oddly enough... affects the cost of that infrastructure.

Freedom is not simply about cost. It is about end users and businesses being able to choose solutions that best fit their needs. And the ability to change and shift that infrastructure as needed. This task is only complicated when a vendor's business-plan-driven incompatability has to be accounted for.

It is still pretty common to find that one's infrastructure will consist of Free and proprietary solutions. But it is still a very good idea to be aware of which are which and what limitations are involved with each.

• #### List of differences between OO and SO (Score:4, Informative)

on Saturday May 25, 2002 @10:35PM (#3585811) Homepage
This seems to happen everytime there's a story about openoffice.org or staroffice. Here's a list of the major points:

1. StarOffice 6 is released and costs $75.95/seat. 2. StarOffice 6 and OpenOffice.org are built from the same codebase 3. StarOffice 6 includes niceties and extras that OpenOffice.org doesn't include (many templates, nice clipart, a manual, and a database component) If you need to do basic stuff, OpenOffice.org will be just fine. If you want to a database tool to go along with your office suite, you'd need StarOffice 6. • #### What's the database stuff like? (Score:3, Interesting) Anyone have any experience with the database components? (This is the first I've heard of the database part...) That part, if it's done well, would be worth the money to me - my office has people using Access databases that I would love to convert over to to StarOffice (connected to MySQL or Postgres) if I could. Also, if I 'upgrade' people to StarOffice, how tough/legal is it to sell off the MS Office licenses? Assuming we have a bunch of individually-purchased copies...) Cheers, Jim in Tokyo • #### Re:What's the database stuff like? (Score:2) Go read your license. A lot of commercial software has a clause in the license that says it's illegal to resell the software+license to someone else without written consent. I wouldn't be surprised if Office was that way. The license itself should say. • #### Re:What's the database stuff like? (Score:1) Go read your license. A lot of commercial software has a clause in the license that says it's illegal to resell the software+license to someone else without written consent. I wouldn't be surprised if Office was that way. The license itself should say. I think it's safe to say that Microsoft is very friendly and liberal on their licensing and distribution policies; they have a long history like that. NOT! • #### Re:What's the database stuff like? (Score:2) Exactly my point. :) • #### Re:What's the database stuff like? (Score:1) Well, if you're in Tokyo, you just take the software you want to sell and put it in a big man purse (assuming they still use those there). Then you walk along the street or down a shoten and jump in front of businessmen and say, "katte kure! This is a pen!", and they will buy your software. Just keep doing this until you've unloaded it all. • #### Re:What's the database stuff like? (Score:2) My understanding is that it's a completely separate database system included - and the name escapes me. It was/is a licensed product, which is part of the reason why it's not 'open' like the rest of the suite. I'm not sure how easy it would be to connect it to use an external database instead of the internal one. I suspect not easy at all, otherwise that may have been an OpenOffice.org project as well. • #### Copy n' paste btwn SO and desktop (Score:2, Interesting) I don't know if any of you guys have the same problem, but I can't seem to copy and paste text (or any objects for that matter) between everything else on the Gnome/KDE desktop and SO/OO. This becomes a pain when trying to C/P URLS and other information to list documentation sources. Hopefully this union between Ximian and SO will clear that up. • #### Re:Copy n' paste btwn SO and desktop (Score:2) Yeah I used to get this in SO 6.0 beta, but mine seems to work now with OOo 1.0. Not sure why though. I use KDE. If I find the reason I'll let you know. • #### copy/paste/print/fonts (Score:2) this is the achilles heel of the whole "linux on the desktop" idea. The most basic operations just don't always work. Cut and paste between apps doesn't always work, printing doesn't always work, fonts don't always work, or totally suck if they do, etc. I can't switch my girlfriend over to a linux desktop because she would hit all of these obstacles within the first 30 seconds of use. Sure, if you susbscribe to only one Ideology (kde/gnome) you can get past some of this, but then you can't use the best app for the job. What if you want to use Mozilla and Evolution and Koffice? Choice is great, freedom is great, Linux is great, but I'd rather pay for commercialware and get those "little things." • #### Um, who cares? (Score:1) <rant> Star Office and OOo are bloatware. So is M$ Office for that matter.

Why do I need everything all combined into one massive tool?

Why do people complain when I email them a doc I type in emacs text mode?

I understand the need to create professional documents, but I would fathom a guess that 99% of what word-like apps are used for are the wrong things. An email "memo" doesn't need to be an attached word doc.

That being said, when SO or OOo can read Word docs consistently, then there will be something to report. But that won't happen because M$keeps changing their formats. This whole office "suite" thing is one massive mistake on everyones part. Make small, fast apps that do just what they are supposed to do. Sheesh... </rant> • #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:2) That being said, when SO or OOo can read Word docs consistently, then there will be something to report. But that won't happen because M$ keeps changing their formats.

SO and OOo *can* read Word documents from Office 97, 2000 and XP fiarly consistently and reliably.

I routinely pull in Word documents that have tables and other 'advanced' formatting features.

Yes, there are few glitches now and then with certain 'advanced' formatting features. But most of the Word documents I get at the office don't use these features.

99% of the people who complain about SO/OOo and Word documents are complaining because they have the wrong fonts installed! It might seem like the Times font you used in OOo on your Linux desktop is the same as the Times New Roman font in Windows 9x/NT/2000/XP. Let me assure you, as someone who has done professional graphic design work, it is not. Subtle differences in the sizes, shapes, and kerning tables of the fonts cause things to wrap weird and text to fall into the wrong places, especially when you have columns, tables, or text wrapped around a picture.

With the right fonts installed, 99.5% of all Word documents will look just fine in OOo. It's that .5% that you need to fix now and then that cause frustration though... :)

• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:1)

99% of the people who complain about SO/OOo and Word documents are complaining because they have the wrong fonts installed!

I must be in that 1%, then.

I complain about SO/OO, Abiword, and every other OSS word processor because, quite simply, the spell checking sucks. I rely on it to catch a whole bunch of common spelling errors--and when writing very long documents, they come up.

I tried one of them recently (I think it was Open Office) and it opened the file just fine. But when I turned on "spell check on the fly", the darn thing drew a squiggly line under every ellipss (sp--it's late) and em-dash that I had. Show me a way to fix those (without coding) in a Win32 OOS word processor, and I'll switch and encourage everyone around me to switch.

• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:2)

99% of the people who complain about SO/OOo and Word documents are complaining because they have the wrong fonts installed!

Though the fonts may differ, that typically isn't the root of the problem. The real problem is that people don't know how to use word processors!.

WYSIWYG does not mean that you can ignore the tools that you are using. A document should never have more than 2 adjacent spaces; people should learn the difference between hard- and soft-returns (paragraph breaks vs. line breaks); etc.

This is the same problem as we see on the Web. HTML "developers" are fighting the system trying to force a particular look to their pages.

Let the viewer/browser/client do the layout!
So what if a document repaginates differently in one word processor over another? The document will look good given any font (though radically different sizes may look awkward). If the document is formatted properly, it will Just Work.

If you care about exact layout, then a word processor is the wrong tool . That's what page layout programs are for.

• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:1)

TESTIFY! I have the same problem when I try to send people email written in binary. God, what do people need with all these fancy charachters. 0 and 1 are where it all begin the other 99% of letters are just bloated versions of these....

Honesty I see your point, but emacs isn't exactly the smallest program in the world either.
• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:1)

I understand the need to create professional documents, but I would fathom a guess that 99% of what word-like apps are used for are the wrong things. An email "memo" doesn't need to be an attached word doc.

As far as professionalism goes, "Office" apps are terrible. For truly crisp results, I can recomment non other than the [supposedly] archaic vi + LaTeX + dvipdf. PDF is so widely supported and accepted that everyone [unless you've been living under a rock] knows how to read them. In addition, the use of LaTeX ensures that your formatting is of high-readability, as apposed to 'fasionable'.

I for one will not be moving to such Office packages.

• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:3, Insightful)

I don't plan on it either. I use LaTeX and I dig it. But that doesn't solve the same problem as these Office suites do. Sure, everyone can read and print a PDF, but what about edit it, and send a revised version back to you? LaTeX savy people can work from your source document, yes, but most normal Office-users wouldn't have the slightest clue what to do with a LaTeX file.

I have Office v.X installed, because there are times when I need to do just this. You'd be surprised, even among CS profs, how few people know LaTeX enough to feel comfy editing your drafts written in it.

Also, there's no way to do something like a spreadsheet with LaTeX. However, in lambdaTeX or Scribe (in Scheme) something like this could be done, and for that reason, I plan on moving to Scribe eventually (over LaTeX). It can generate PDF, HTML and PS just like LaTeX, but has a more familiar (s-exp) syntax, and has a much more powerful language behind it, for doing calculations within your document. That said, I'd also welcome a LaTeX preprocessor that could do something similar... For instance:

\begin{worksheet}{c|c|c|c}
\hline
Name & Beer Drunk & Milk Drunk & Total Liquids \\
Me & 10 L & 12 L & \add{\cell{B2},
\cell{C2}} \\
You & 14 L & 2 L & \add{\cell{B3},
\cell{C3}} \\
\end{worksheet}

and so on... ugly as hell in LaTeX, but in something Lisplike, it could be a lot nicer-

(worksheet "c|c|c|c"
(hline)
Name & Beer Drunk & Milk Drunk & Total Liquids \\
Me & 10 L & 12 L & (+ B2 C2) \\
You & 14 L & 2 L & (+ B3 C3) \\
)

Man, that'd rule.
• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:1)

and so on... ugly as hell in LaTeX, but in something Lisplike, it could be a lot nicer-

Looks like you found yourself a new project ;)

I agree with what you mentioned in your reply. I should have qualified my area of intention down to things like "Report/Letter/manual production for the purpose of being read-only" (as apposed to ssheets, db's etc).

It's an unfortunate thing though that people have "forgotten" about the high-quality output tools which already exist within their distributions. Even worse still that in general people are losing the skills to use them. Speaking of which, I believe that LyX 1.2.x is now out, so there's a good compromise.

Now, if only they'd make a thought-to-file converter :P

• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:2)

> Looks like you found yourself a new project ;)

Actually, it's something I've wanted to work on for a while. I was going to write it in and for Squeak- one of the last tools I need before I can dump primitive systems like Mac OS X and Unix/X11. Like I said, Scribe [inria.fr] can do this, to an extent. I don't know if there's a way to refer to cells within a table though, but it could definitely be added without pulling teeth.

Yeah, read-only, no prob. But there are times when I'll just use Word because I have to pass it around. Sucks, but what can you do?

Never used LyX. TeXShop or Emacs was always good enough for me, for what I do, which is pretty simple, mostly tables, \em \bf- very little math.

I'll wish for a thought-to-MIDI converter while we're at it! :P
• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:1)

I for one will not be moving to such Office packages.

You must not be a manager. Only a manager would find the Incredible Productivity Improvements! you get from buying a suite. Embed a spreadsheet in your presentation! Put a presentation in your spreadsheet! Or stuff a flight simulator in there somewhere....

• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:1)

This whole office "suite" thing is one massive mistake on everyones part.

Dude, you are forgetting the totally awesome synergy you get when you work in a suite. When you're creating text files, you want to bust loose spreadsheeting and creating presentations, and maybe create a database of your activities! Only a suite lets you fulfil such a momentous destiny.

• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:1)

Then create a common API so *different* apps can communicate.

Suites suck. They are too big. Small apps is the way to go.
• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:2)

Claiming OpenOffice is bloated while EMACS is not is the ultimate irony.

If you want a decent, compact editor you should try something like Jed - an EMACS clone but about 1/10th the size.

• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:1)

Not really.

I've got emacs running on my Zaurus with 32mb of memory. I'd like to see SO do that.

The point is that while emacs is configurable (take what you want), these "suites" are basically not.
• #### Re:Um, who cares? (Score:2)

I presume that someone with the inclination and the source code could build a smaller version if they wanted. It is just no one has bothered. Perhaps it could be you who tries?

As for EMACS, I've used it in the past, but to me it is the epitome of over-engineered bloat. If you just want to edit stuff you're better off going for something like Jed or MicroEMACS that do the same in a fraction of the space.

• #### Koffice (Score:5, Informative)

on Saturday May 25, 2002 @11:07PM (#3585875) Homepage
Am I the only one who likes KOffice [koffice.org]?
Try it if you don't want to shell out money for Staroffice or want a great alternative to Openoffice. I have been using it for about a year and although still limited compared to MS Office I like it alot. Here's what it comes with:

KWord - A frame-based word processor

KPresenter - full-featured presentation program.

Kivio - Visio®-style flowcharting application.

Kontour - vector drawing application.

Krita - raster-based image manipulation program

Kugar - tool for generating business quality reports.

Kchart - ntegrated graph and chart drawing tool. Sorry I am also one of those who thinks "screw diversity". Linux should rally behind a few key projects, instead of several projects trying to re-invent the wheel

• #### Re:Koffice (Score:2)

No you aren't the only one. I like it too. Still lacking some features, but getting there quickly. I'd like to see the inclusion of a safe perl based scripting language which would be able to script all functions of the koffice sweet, but use crypto signing, and other security features to make sure that virii and the like are impossible. Like it wouldn't be able to access files that aren't koffice docs, and would prompt you before doing certain things.

• #### Re:Koffice (Score:1)

heh :) "Safe" "Perl" that's almost as good as "microsoft" "works"
• #### Re:Koffice (Score:3, Informative)

Well, the good news is that KOffice includes some stuff, like Kontour, that isn't available in open-source form anywhere else. The bad news is that the KOffice developers are spread way too thin. For instance, their link to the Kontour documentation is broken, and an e-mail asking where it had gotten to resulted in no response. I'm not trying to put them down, but they just don't seem to have enough people to keep everything going. Another example: at the address where they used to have KSpell, I recently found a porn site instead. This time I happened to know the developer, and how to get in touch with him. Again, it's not an issue of blame -- he's a great guy -- but it just shows that they might have bitten off more than they can chew. And then there's the issue of the Qt licensing. I hate to dig out this hoary old chestnut, but it really is a problem. I'm not trying to be ideologically purer than anyone else, but it's just not free software.
• #### Re:Koffice (Score:4, Informative)

on Saturday May 25, 2002 @11:43PM (#3585944) Homepage
Not available anywhere else?

• #### Re:Koffice (Score:2)

Looks good, if a bit dated. The last release was in September???
• #### Re:Koffice (Score:2)

I think it's also worth mentioning sketch [sf.net]. It's not gnome or kde specific, but I've found it superior to both sodipodi and kontour. It does gradients correctly unlike sodipodi and allows creating individual line segments instead of "auto-lines" where they create a bunch of segments for you. Plus it runs with fairly low requirements, under python and pygtk.
• #### Re:Koffice (Score:2)

And then there's the issue of the Qt licensing. I hate to dig out this hoary old chestnut, but it really is a problem. I'm not trying to be ideologically purer than anyone else, but it's just not free software.

Put that hairy old chestnut back in your pocket, and read this:

[trolltech.com]

Who necessarily hates M$? People just like to use a good operating system which doesn't (enter your own personal reasons here). Bundling good free software makes it that much faster and easier to get your new operating system install up to speed and ready to get some work done. Some OSS purists aren't using Mandrake anyways, they're using Debian, Slackware, and other pure free-software distros. • #### Price?! (Score:1) Ok.. I use Linux for most servers that I setup at work, and I occasionally use it on the desktop. Now dont get me wrong, I have always loved that Linux was free - and I was always ready to cough up money when they decided that the current business model wasn't working too well... But I feel that the costs for this latest product are a bad decision.. "Red Carpet CorporateConnect, which includes a license for StarOffice 6.0 included with each paid seat, priced at$150 per year per seat."

Ouch! Maybe for smaller businesses this might work, but for larger companies & businesses that might go for a Microsoft volume license (I work for a college, and we use the MS Campus Agreement.. it does work out very cheap), I cannot see this kind of deal being any better than the Microsoft one? Even if this did offer savings, it wouldn't be by an awful lot - I always liked Linux because it took the cost of licenses and laughed about it - they were just no longer anything to worry about.

I guess that kind of business model just doesn't work?
• #### Re:Price?! (Score:1, Interesting)

by Anonymous Coward
You aren't really buying a Licence with Red Carpet CorporateConnect but a service. Now with StarOffice 6.0 and certain other components like that MS Outlook plugin for Evolution (if they ship it with the product) might have some special licenses, but the rest of the product is free software (well, obviously they also have licenses but...)

You're just buying the few apps (+ loads of free software in nice packages) and support for all that. And I doubt anyway that Red Carpet CorporateConnect is ment for Campuses, sheez.
• #### Good (Score:3, Insightful)

on Sunday May 26, 2002 @09:57AM (#3586843) Journal
This is called adding value. It's what MS did to gain it's market dominance (with one or two other tactics which I won't mention here) and it's about time. Good on Ximian, Sun, OpenOffice.org and Mandrake. Good on them all.
• #### I couldn't find this anywhere... (Score:2, Interesting)

...so I'm going to ask. If I were to purchase Ximian Desktop Professional for $59.00 do I get the regular StarOffice, or a custom, only-runs-when-Ximian-is-present version? I would be willing to buy Ximian, not install it, and get StarOffice for a$20.00 discount. If it is just a regular version of StarOffice. But if Ximian has pulled a Dell, I'm not interested.

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