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Third Time Lucky for OPN 119

DanielS writes "We finally converted OPN to use dancer-ircd at about 7:40 last night (AEDT - UTC+11) - and this time it's staying! The conversion was successful, apart from some minor services wrinkles which we had to iron out. If you have any issues with channels/services/whatever, please pop by #conversion and /notice one of the ops, and we'll eventually wake up and help you. Happy IRCing! :)" He's talking about also worth checking out
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Third Time Lucky for OPN

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  • Strangely, ever since the "first conversion", the DNS has been sloooow. And it still is. What gives? (I'm on a T3 here, so it can't be on this end ;)
    • If you have any issues with channels/services/whatever, please pop by #conversion and /notice one of the ops, and we'll eventually wake up and help you. Happy IRCing! :)

      #you have been banned for spamming.
    • Maybe the fact that they are now doing proper reverse and forward matching to prevent host spoofing is adding the overhead you're feeling. That's assuming they did :)
  • In case anyone doesn't know... this is the developer sanctuary. A place for developers to communicate without the weenies getting in the way.... well their are still weenies (this is irc ya know), but it is at least a more stable place. I've been using it to work on mod_mp3 []... stop by #mod_mp3 on sometime.
  • "minor" services wrinkles? Bwhahahahaa.....more likely total service outage :) I know, that's why we ended up moving #twilight to another IRC server ;)
  • by smnolde ( 209197 ) on Sunday November 11, 2001 @07:23PM (#2552002) Homepage

    ... it'll crumble in a week and forget who you are from time to time.
  • Support (Score:3, Funny)

    by evil_one ( 142582 ) on Sunday November 11, 2001 @07:24PM (#2552003) Homepage
    I have a tendancy to sit in #debian and try to help people out. Usually there is someone in the channel that can lend a hand, and as long as you're willing to rtfm you can usually acomplish what you're trying to do. It's nice to have a network like this where you can safely idle in the channel at work without having to worry about getting an invite to just as your boss wanders by.
    • I completely agree. IRC has a huge influence in my computing life. Starting about 16 years ago on CompuServes, which was then called 'CB Channels'
      And quite costly too!
      But as of about 7 years ago EFnet opened my world.. gave me an incentive to learn tcl, perl and c so I could confgiure, adapt and expand the capabilities of eggdrops. I know.. !seen isn't much to boast about.. but a door is a door none-the-less. And that was an important door.
      Now a day when you mention irc, the first response you get from people is "Oh yeah! Yahoo!" hehe.. um, no! I wish the best of luck to this project and I fully support their effort.
    • :)

      That reminds me of a new feature. Set umode +I (note the capitalization) and you will not receive invites. Nice huh? :)
  • I would like to thank lilo and the rest of the crew for their great effort to keep OPN running. And thanx for the way cool new services!!!!
  • huh? (Score:1, Troll)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In English, please. This is the front page, after all.
  • The memories (Score:2, Interesting)

    by SquierStrat ( 42516 )
    Aaaah, IRC, I used to hang-out on UnDeRnEt back in the day, I was the guy who started #pascal and got X/W into the channel at the time. Hung-out in #C++ alot also. Err I did until I got banned for insulting one of the Ops rather harshly. That was fun back then...I think I'll have to stop by OPN...I have once for help witht he DXR3 drivers...very useful network.
  • Nazi ops (Score:3, Informative)

    by Nicolas MONNET ( 4727 ) <nicoaltiva AT gmail DOT com> on Sunday November 11, 2001 @07:42PM (#2552041) Journal
    I was disappointed to witness that some ops, even on OPN, unfortunately experience the power trip that comes with the ability to "kick" and "ban" people.

    It could be your choice of nick they don't like, it could be that you argue with them and they don't like your opinion, ... face it, most kick/bans on IRC are not happening because of Spamming, warezing or harassment, but just because some kid was given "op" priviledge, and wants to experience that "god" feeling.
    • The first week of being an op in any major channel is the advice to new ops:

      Don't do ANYTHING!

      Don't kick, don't ban, don't change topic. Just treat yourself as a regular member of that channel. Then staying an op becomes rather easy. Second, don't engage in "joking" with your op powers for the first month at least. This means doing such things as kicking yourself rather than using /part, changing the topic for the sake of changing the topic, etc. Third, never ban for the first few months. Remember, there are other ops in the channel, and you are the new recruit. Do not make the higher powers regret their decision.

    • Yes, and if there's anything on the internet worth your righteous indignation, it's IRC! And Slashnet at that!

      Listen up kids, it's just IRC. Being kicked/banned/called names on IRC doesn't mean shit in the scheme of things. If you're going to get so upset over this, you should really go outside and re-adjust your priorities.

      No one puts a gun to your head to join any certain channel or use any IRC network. If you don't like the people or ops or scenery, don't go there. I don't feel like sitting around watching a bunch of Linux/Open Source zealout weenies, so I don't hang out on slashnet. That easy.

      • > I don't feel like sitting around watching a bunch
        > of Linux/Open Source zealout weenies, so I don't
        > hang out on slashnet. That easy.

        But, you do read slashdot. =)
    • -1 Troll (Score:5, Funny)

      by Sanity ( 1431 ) on Sunday November 11, 2001 @08:31PM (#2552117) Homepage Journal
      Well, I have just discovered that I have ops right now, and take personal offense that you are accusing people like me of being Nazis. As a result, and to teach you a lesson for showing such impudence, I am moderating you down as a Troll.

      So there.

    • Aw, sour grapes.

      I've never had a problem with the ops in the channels I frequent, and I've never seen you in any of those channels. Hardly surprising.

      Stay out of #kick-me and you'll be fine.

      In my favourite channel on OPN one of the operators kicks people when she's in a good mood, and never out of spite. She averages about 10 kicks a week.

      If you find yourself getting kicked out of a channel, then go find another one. Or perhaps read their kick messages.

      • "I've never had a problem with the ops in the channels I frequent, and I've never seen you in any of those channels. Hardly surprising."

        How could you tell? You don't know which nicks I use.

        Looks to me that you're taking this personally. I don't give much of a fuck, I'm just noticing a trend. I've stayed away from IRC altogether because of this "op" bullshit, I used to frequent #perl on (if I remember properly) Undernet or something, and there was one episode that drew me away: that op who had decided that you could'nt post code. Ok, I can understand not posting 12s of lines of code, but the guy would kick for posting a single line. So I gave up on IRC.

        Then I came to openprojects since I saw it featured on slashdot, used it a bit, and noticed the same kind of bullshit, again. Admittedly, it's not that frequent, but I've seen it happen. Not just to me. You're in a conversation on a technical topic, and then you see that the person you're talking to has been kicked for such a stupid reason as "gay nick" or "offensive nick" or some other ridiculous and subjective "offense".

        Ops have that tendency to find a lot of things "offensive". Nobody with half a brain gives a damn fuck when you're there to talk about graphic cards, but that sensible, nazi op. And that bugs me.

        So yeah, "you" have not witnessed this, maybe "you" are an op and you share that "holier than thou" attitude, maybe you enjoy the moralizing bullshit, I don't know, it's still a fact of life: "op" priviledges tend to make some people behave like dickheads.
        • I think you proved my point quite nicely. Thank you.

          When in Rome, do as the Romans. Use #flood for pasting code.

          I'm not an op, but if I caught you talking about graphics cards in #perl I'd be sure to say something.

          • "When in Rome, do as the Romans. Use #flood for pasting code."

            Sigh. What a stupid bitch. Can't you just fucking read what you're replying to? The guy I'm talking about kicked people for pasting a single line of perl code. Capicce?
    • I only hang out in the channel of my (former) q3 clan, and a few others, on and the ops are all pretty decent. No real powertripping. People like that get booted out of the clan. Usually when I kick/ban someone it's a good friend and I do it as a joke. So maybe you're just hanging out in the wrong channels.
    • OPN Operators: "Responsibility not Privilege" I'm an operator from #debian on OPN; [/msg nickserv access #debian list] for proof. #debian is one of the busiest [] public open source IRC channels in the world. I would like to take this time to debunk some of your criticisms that you have against OPN operators, or as lilo (OPN founder) would prefer us to be called -- "catalysts". Being an catalyst on most OPN channels is not a privilege or a license to wield god-like powers over normal users, but it is a responsibility.

      To take a page out of OPN guidelines for catalysts: []

      "Catalysts try to resolve problems, not through the use of authority and special privilege, but by fostering consensus, gently nudging participants in the direction of more appropriate behaviour and by generally reducing the level of confrontation rather than confronting users with problems...
      An important characteristic of successful catalysts is the infrequency with which they wear authority or invoke special privilege."
      Whenever we do invoke a privilege against someone it is because they are going out of their way to ignore OPN's (optional) channel guidelines [] and/or additional guidelines of that channel. #debian's own guidelines can be accessed by [/msg apt guidelines].

      Catalysts will always endeavour to take the time to carefully explain to someone how they are out of line with channel guidelines and mediate between opposing parties before using privileges are a last resort When possible, one catalyst will consult with another before this stage is even reached.

      We try not to let our own personal emotions or beliefs get in the way of channel administration. Our role isn't to control the discussion by kicking out people who are 'on the other side of the fence' (and thus cause envy), but to keep channels calm and keep them public by members of the open source community and the public.

      If you do have a legitimate complaint against an catalyst in future, what I suggest you do is approach the other catalysts within that channel [/msg chanserv access #channel list]. Most are appointed and dismissed by the consensus of a majority of other catalysts within a channel. If your complaint is legitimate, then other catalysts will reprimand him/her and may revoke their access if necessary in future. If you are still unsatisfied, then you may take it to higher levels such as those within the #openprojects for reconciliation.

      OPN does not take lightly to access abuse as action such as what you have described would be very detrimental to the reputation of the OPN community as a whole. OPN is there to "provide an interactive environment for free software and open source projects and support groups", and we will always try to make everyone feel like they can be a welcome part of this community.

  • by ddent ( 166525 ) on Sunday November 11, 2001 @07:44PM (#2552047) Homepage

    I'm dent on Open Projects, and I'm the one who has been the manager for the conversion project [].

    The conversion has gone mostly smoothly this time - service was only down on each server for about 5 seconds. The database has been converted including the access lists for channels, which we did not do last time (yes, when the ircd was coring...).

    If you are a channel founder who changed the default LEVELS in the old services (which has now been renamed LEVEL), your access lists were converted - but everyone's access level was set to 0 as the new services uses a different trust metric system.

    Please also note that the auto-expire functions in services actually work now :). Be sure to identify to your nick/channel at least once a month, or your nick/channel will be dropped.

    If you are a founder and find yourself unable to change the access levels, you may find "/msg chanserv identify #channel yourpasswordhere" will do the trick for you. If not, drop by #conversion and we will be happy to help you.

    I'd like to thanks lots of people for help with this project, its been great working with everyone. Not in any particular order, asuffield, jeremy, MysticOne, robster, cdlu, andy, Acapnotic, lilo, netgod, Teknix, John, crystalize, Matt, DanielS, ElectricElf, InnerFIRE, dark, draco, drow, matthewg, peidran, and someone else on #python who helped me with the db conversion who I feel horrible for forgetting their nick, please remind me if you read this :). If I have forgotten anyone else, which I am sure I have, my appologies, please do remind me - its not that I didn't appreciate.

    I hope you enjoy this new network code - it has been almost 2 years in the making.
    • You are damn right I'm going to enjoy them, I especially like the new services, Its good to see different lines once in a while!!!

    • When I connect, I get prompted for a server password. :(

    • - Server sends redundant MODE changes, ie,
      *** User1 sets mode: +o Friend
      *** User2 sets mode: +o Friend

      - Chanserv periodically de-ops everyone in the channel.

      - Reliance on identd (shouldn't new ircds be working to deprecate this?)

      But otherwise, it seems the same as before. ;)
      • The mode changes are possibly redundant, but they allow users a bit more flexibility. I don't see that as a particular problem.

        Chanserv only de-ops users when it is broken. This is hopefully fixed.

        ident is not required, although the rules on what usernames are valid are a bit stricter.
        • > The mode changes are possibly redundant, but
          > they allow users a bit more flexibility. I don't
          > see that as a particular problem.

          Well, it is annoying in a setting where friends are auto-opping each other, resulting in half a dozen +o messages when someone joins the channel. What is the added benefit?

          Thanks for fixing the chanserv bug.

          I realize ident is not required -- my point is that the service is extremely outdated and should be deprecated. What is the point of identd support, other than additional network traffic and forcing users to change their lists of hostmasks (to include ~) for access control, etc? Everyone uses fake identd servers these days anyway.
  • by tiny69 ( 34486 ) on Sunday November 11, 2001 @09:28PM (#2552240) Homepage Journal
    As soon as the change was made, ChanServ proceeded to kick and ban everyone on #OpenBSD. I heard this happened on quite a few other channels as well. One person even said that ChanServ flooded his channel with messages.

    For the most part, things are running fairly smoothly now. Since the services are going to require you to identify yourself at least once a month, it funny watching OPs trying to get forgotten founder passwords replaced for their channels.
  • Didn't v1.0.21 [] come out a day after the changeover?
  • by kraf ( 450958 )
    all the time I spent on IRC back.
    It was pointless, time consuming and sometimes even dangerous (exploits and all).
  • ...I've been a server admin for an IRC network that runs 2000+ peak users for the past few years. What do we need to do to get /. attention? Who the f*ck is OPN, anyways?

    • by Yarn ( 75 )
      OOH 2000 users!!

      [irc] Connected to
      [] There are 15296 users and 13052 invisible on 45 servers
      [] 58 operator(s) online
      [] 37423 channels formed
      [] I have 424 clients and 1 servers
      [] Highest connection count: 689 (688 clients)

      Our peak user count is in the 40k region, and our main servers handle as many users each as your net has in total.

      As far as I know, we've never been mentioned on Slashdot, and I don't really care.

      The reason OPN is mentioned is that it is the OpenProjects network, where people like Debian maintainers hang out.
    • It runs #slashdot and #slash (slashcode).
      The channel #linuxhelp is founded by which is of VA Software.
      It's also connected to which means that there are a lot of people in #debian.
      Furthermore it's the "official" #mandrake server.
      And in #redhat are some redhat employees hanging out.
      It also has #kernelnewbies of which Rik van Riel is founder I believe.
  • There's an IRC bot named Dancer that's been around for many years by now, and I was once upon the maintainer of that project.

    Is the almost identical names here a coincidence or not?

    Dancer web page []

    • I wondered about that myself when I first read
      the name of this daemon yesterday. I did the
      Norwegian translation of the bot, so I sure do
      remember good, ol' Dancer ;)
  • ... Which IRCd would you recommend? What are their advantages/disadvantages or better say, how do they compare in performing different tasks? Like: 'Which one is best for small LAN parties with up to 500 visitors?'

    Any links or bits of information on this would be appreciated.
  • At 10:32 UTC, with less than 10 minutes to the 24 hour mark, the adminitrators sadly chose to revert the servers and services to their former state.
  • by Daniel Stone ( 535956 ) on Monday November 12, 2001 @07:52AM (#2553107)
    Hi, I'm DanielS, who originally submitted the story. You can find me on as DanielS, if you want to talk to me. Around an hour ago, OpenProjects started experiencing severe difficulties caused by a minor bug. All of our servers disconnected, and were all independent. Because of this, one of our operators took the decision to revert back to the old codebase. Please be assured that we are working on it, and hope to redeliver you to the dancer codebase very soon. It's been very upsetting for us to see the revert happen. As anything breaks, I will post news about it in #conversion, This channel is moderated, and is for operators to post news only. /msg me if you feel you have something newsworthy. Thankyou for your patience and your support of OpenProjects Net. We hope to see you there soon.
  • [20:47:07] -ElectricElf- [GlobalNotice] Good morning to everyone in EST, and hello to everyone else :) Yes, we are currently back to ircu, instead of our new codebase, dancer. We are examining our options, but be assured the bug that caused us to revert back is known and has been fixed. It is currently being tested right now. Cross your fingers, please :)
  • by mkbz ( 317881 ) <.gro.ssatrams. .ta. .bkm.> on Monday November 12, 2001 @11:32AM (#2553997) Homepage

    [S+Z] [Sat Nov 10 18:46:01 2001] NOTICE: -lilo:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.
    We're getting ready for another conversion attempt which we hope will
    occur sometime before 06.00 OPN time (UTC). Various problems, including
    a serious hash table corruption problem, have been resolved. The test
    net is currently up on, but the latest
    services database has not yet been converted.
    [S+Z] [Sat Nov 10 18:47:15 2001] NOTICE: -lilo:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] We
    believe that various access list conversion problems will be resolved
    this time around. We'll keep you posted on status. Thanks for your
    patience and thank you for using OPN.
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 00:54:42 2001] NOTICE: -dent:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] Well,
    services is up and running on the testnet-soontoberealnet. PLEASE come
    and try the testnet out and report any bugs to #OpenProjects. Any OPN
    server port 9000. Now is the time we want to find out....
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 01:57:08 2001] NOTICE: -ddent:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] So that
    was an OPN minute, not a real one. Sorry for the delay, we have a few
    eleventh hour fixups.
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:14:01 2001] NOTICE: -ddent:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] All
    engines tuned and ready. Please get ready for launch, and buckle your
    seatbelt. The servers will be converted one by one, with a downtime on
    each of about 5 seconds. Thanks for using OPN, and have a nice day.
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- Welcome to the new
    Open Projects network. We hope you enjoy
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- the new quality of
    service that should be provided. If you
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- have any questions /
    comments / concerns, please email
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- or drop by #OpenProjects.
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice-
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- For problems with the
    new network which require staff help,
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- please drop by
    #conversion. If you think another user can
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- help you get going, or
    you want to help others, please drop
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- by #conversion.users -
    you will probably get a faster
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- response, as there
    will be more people there hopefully. :)
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice-
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- A note to all founders
    of channels and users on channel
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- access lists. You
    *must* identify to chanserv at least
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- once every 9 weeks or
    your channel will be dropped. There
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- are 1551 channels in
    danger of being dropped when channel
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- expiry is re-enabled.
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice-
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- Daniel Dent
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 02:43:58 2001] NOTICE: -GlobalNotice- dancer-ircd conversion
    project manager
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 03:02:42 2001] NOTICE: -dd:>*- Welcome to the new OPN
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 04:48:27 2001] NOTICE: -lilo:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.
    The problem with services is being looked at now. Apologies for the
    weekend conversion madness, and thanks for using the network. Please
    stop by #conversion if you run into any problems. 8)
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 05:06:57 2001] NOTICE: -lilo:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.
    The problem with services is still being looked at actively. Apologies
    again for the weekend conversion madness, and thank you for using OPN.
    Expect some problems with access lists, but things look stable enough to
    stay up, so we'll have to bull on through. Please stop by #conversion
    if you have any problems!
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 13:30:16 2001] NOTICE: -ddent:$*- [GlobalNotice] Due to
    problems with virtually every channel on the network, I'm considering
    re-converting the services database. The changes will fix founder access
    to channels, and nickname last user hosts, but will set the database
    back 24 hours. If you have any objections please tell me now.
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 13:33:05 2001] NOTICE: -ddent:$*- [Global] Well, there are
    certainly lots of objections. I will see about fixing the access
    without rolling back the db.
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 18:54:34 2001] NOTICE: -lilo:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.
    We had a brief configuration problem which resulted in users being told
    they couldn't connect without a password. It's been resolved.
    [S+Z] [Sun Nov 11 19:46:21 2001] NOTICE: -lilo:$*.net- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.
    Reminder: There were some limitations in the conversion scripting for
    chanserv. If you're experiencing channel problems, drop by #conversion.
    [S+Z] [Mon Nov 12 01:16:35 2001] NOTICE: -dent:$*- Hello everyone, just wanted
    to let you know that channel founders should now have access to their
    channel regardless of their prior situation, it has been fixed for every
    channel registered. There may still be some access lists which have not
    had the levels updated - if you can't contact the founder we may be able
    to help you. Anyway, if there are any outstanding issues, please feel
    free to come bug us in #conversion.
    [S+Z] [Mon Nov 12 04:48:43 2001] NOTICE: -ElectricElf:$*
    [GlobalNotice] Good morning to everyone in EST, and hello to everyone
    else :) Yes, we are currently back to ircu, instead of our new codebase,
    dancer. We are examining our options, but be assured the bug that caused
    us to revert back is known and has been fixed. It is currently being
    tested right now. Cross your fingers, please :)
  • /. should run a poll about the best IRC network.


    I don't know yet which network i'll run my channel on.
  • According to the /map and a dns lookup, here is the list of the actives OPN servers:

    The pointers to OPN include,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and

    Impressive, ain't it?

    /me think slashnet should merge with OPN

Executive ability is deciding quickly and getting somebody else to do the work. -- John G. Pollard