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Toonami Plans Revealed 164

da3dAlus writes: "Cartoon Network has revealed its plans for Toonami for the end of the year. holds the article that details CN's plan for the next wave of anime to hit U.S. shores beginning in September. This includes more Gundam series, Blue Submarine #6, two Reboot movies, Sailor Moon movies, and even some of their own material. Unfortunately, there will be no uncut Tenchi episodes." Blue Sub #6 is crazy but highly interesting (notable for amazing surround sound effects, and abnormal quantity of CGI, that isn't always perfectly integrated).
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Toonami Plans Revealed

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    But guns and violence on TV? Sure! No problem.

    You people ("Americans") crack me up, really. You have absolutely no problem with showing all sorts of violent acts and the such on television - note, i'm not saying that's bad or anything - and yet you freak out whenever sex is involved. Let's try see here, sex... the most natural thing on earth, our way of reproduction, what ensures our survival as a species, no... god no, can't have that. Violence, blood and guts, sure... let the kids have what they want, if smashed brains on a wall is what they want.

    Again, I'm not saying it's bad to show people what reality is all about, but don't you think it's a bit hypocritical when you won't even show them one of the most basic things humans being have to do to go on?
  • This is a troll, right?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Anime doesn't need Disney, give me a god damn break. Anime is an accepted part of culture in Japan, you seriously think they give a crap about what goes to American television? Please.

    Furthermore, how can you even respect anything that comes out of corporate America these days? All this reality tv crap, god damn game shows are back too, what the hell is going on? And yes, I do watch some stuff, and I do watch lots of movies that come out of America, not everything there is bad, of course. But mainstream things, boy oh boy, don't bother putting your thinking cap on, you're not going to need it, seems to me they're just feeding you guys with the most mindless idiotic crap and you just swallow it. Come on, I know some of you watch Cops, admit it.

    Anyhow, back to the original comment, Disney doesn't do anything for anime, anime always has and will always survive on its own, with or without Americans.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    ...doesn't anyone else think that the Slashdot "anime" icon sucks? Really really sucks? Fix it!!
  • The Cartoon Network is spinning of a channel called "Boomerang". The idea is to take all of the old content (ie. Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, etc...) and put them on the separate channel so Cartoon Network can focus more on new content, both in-house and licensed.

    So, it's not that they are spinning off a Toonami channel, but they are spinning off the old stuff and making the main network mostly Toonami.

    Rock on.
  • that Arthur C. Clarke predicted this (editing out cigarettes in old movies) for a somewhat dystopian future c. 2012 in The Ghost from the Grand Banks (IIRC).

    The future is now...

    ::cue cheesy sci-fi music::
  • Maybe not, but it's a damn good show. The worst you can call it is offtopic.
  • Heh, Fist of the North Star was hilarious...

    If braveheart had the same voice actors, they would all be going 'yip yip yip yip yip' as they sliced people to pieces...

    Sorry, I still can't get over that. And I love anime to death. :)

  • I hate martial arts movies, but you have to see (if you can find it) 'Drunken Master'..


  • Portland, OR.
  • Heh HB has never been known for artistic or animation quality - sitcom-style plot is where they excel, not that that's a plus, either.

    Most SHOWS don't animate at 30fps, true. However, with something like CGI, being so .. 'realistic' in quality, and the actual art of the group being stellar (IRT Reboot), the animation should have been MUCH better. Beastwars is a perfect example. Even the drollest scenes have very, very fluid animation even if the actual movements aren't very complex.

    Older cartoons still rule the framerate region.. WB and MGM to be specific. (older disney perhaps.. but i still can't watch it on GP)

    IIRC, Akira was animated ABOVE 32 fps in 90% of the scenes, of course, even the most die hard anime fans, as much as the more pretentious hate to admit it, love the movie. It is a perfect example of quality in plot and animation, which is exactly why it's become so popular, and probably did most of the work breaking the ice in american acceptance of anime.

    That's another thing, I have a real, real, hard time comparing anime like Gundam/Eva/NS/Golgo to things like, well, pokemon. Anime to me says 'excellence in artistic and plot form, with emphasis to japanese style'. Not, 'japanese animation'. Most of those anime's I listed above if not, are animating real, real close to 30 in the more fast paced scenes where it's required.

    For a perfect example of what's NOT and SHOULD be animated at 30, take a look at the recent attempts Marvel has made at animating their own comics (X-Men, SpiderMan). If you watch an hour of episodes, you're almost guaranteed to see 'teleporting characters' or scenes that seem like the animators intended to provide 'slow-mo' by making the framerate 6fps or so.

    Oh yes. There's nothing wrong with recycled animation, i never said that. It's just smart, like reusing code. But just like reusing anything, if it doesn't work, don't bother trying. 99% of actual productions seem to blatantly ignore this rule.

  • *COUGH*Roadrunner*COUGH*

    It's like MGM with Tom & Jerry, when Hanna and Barbera actually did the artwork and animation, then take a look at the later stuff when HB actually got the cartoon back.. crrrrrap!

    'nuff said :)

  • I know I'm going to start a flamewar here.... sorry.

    Reboot is by far one of the worst animated CGI Cartoons that I have ever seen. Beastwars, done by the same guys, is bounds and leaps beyond what this cartoon was. In fact, I'd even go to say that the only reason that reboot was ever popular is because it pretty much was the first full CGI cartoon pushed to american audiences.

    The characters are blocky, the light is constantly off, the animatronics blow chunks, all the characters 'walk like an egyptian'.. I could go on. The visuals and plot, however, are excellent and unfortunately the lack of work by their animation team somewhat ruined that for me.

    I guess I'm anal about animation, personally, if it's not animated at 30 fps or better it's not worth watching. Movies like Akira or Ninja Scroll or just about anything by Disney (despite plot) are grand to admire as an art form. The Gundam series is one of the better animated ones on TV, Tenchi and Ranma shouldn't be excluded from this though.

    Also some of the more detailed scenes in DragonBall Z/GT. Unfortunately DragonBall really blows chunks in quality in the episodes where major plot events aren't happening. So sad. And funimation made things even worse by cropping almost half of each episode out for americans.

    Personally, overall my favorite anime is 'The Professional', which had a great plot and was a groundbreaker, considering it was using 'decent' CGI in 1985.

    Oh yes, and we mustn't forget John K., probably the best american animator working, creator of Ren & Stimpy.For those interested, there is a divx encoded copy of 'Man's Best Friend', floating around on gnutella. It's the episode that got John K. banned from MTV/Nickelodeon, and it's probably one of the best episodes out there. I suggest you take a look at it, it's not the greatest quality but watchable.

    Oh yes. For those in the portland, or area, the guy who owns the Clinton St theatre has a vast collection of banned and 'disowned' cartoons, mainly from Warner Bros and a few Joe Fleischman (Popeye) cartoons that make some of the craziest Hentai look like Saturday morning television. He shows them every now and then in a series... Pretty neat stuff, cheap seats.. I guess Warner is trying to sue him for holding the episodes (which are mostly war propoganda and the bing crosby original clip).

  • It's not really the same. What I'd like to see is a channel devoted to unaltered anime. The Cartoon Network is currently aimed primarily at kids, so they want to "sanitize" any anime before they show it. Were they to spin off an anime-only channel, they would (hopefully) target it more at adults and leave the anime untouched.

    --Phil (And, while I'm dreaming, we'll make all of the anime on the new channel subbed, too.)
  • I'm not around to see the 5:30 showing, but one of my roommates is, and he's pointed out a couple of things that were cut for the earlier broadcast but left in the midnight one. Mostly brief scenes that the producers apparently thought were too violent or gory. One that I remember off the top of my head was when Hiro was being rescued from the medical center and he'd broken through one of the wrist straps on his own, leaving a good bit of blood on the table.

    --Phil (/me tries to imagine the reaction of the average American to Lain.)
  • Check out the phrase below the name "Slashdot"

    "News for Nerds."

    Gee, do you think SOME nerds (or geeks) might like and matter to them. Anime? RPGs? Star Wars? Macs? Security? Digital toys? Movies? Humor? There are many times that people claim that certain topics are off-topic for slashdot. That is only true if Cmdr Taco says so. It's his site.

    The other poster noted that that topic can be eliminated from in your profile. There are lots of categories you can block out so you never see it. Heck you can even block out certain authors. Like Katz, or even CmdrTaco if that gives you a woody.
  • Actually, they do show an "uncut" version of Gundam Wing during their "Midnight Run".... Although I've yet to be able to sit through enough of an episode to actually notice a difference.
  • You _have_ to be joking. No one, but no one does animation at 30fps. It's a waste of time and money. Only occassionally, when great fluidity is needed might someone even think about doing ones. For instance the bit of fighting between Escaflowne and Schezarade in the opening of Vision of Escaflowne might be on ones. That's what - a few seconds?

    Twos are the best you'll ever see normally. Threes or fours are much more common. But the Japanese are well known for recycling animation, or employing other tricks (e.g. dramatic pauses - or having characters talk with their mouths concealed - or camera tricks) to cut down on animating anything.

    If you're really all that concerned about frame count, go watch more American animation (other than cheap crap, like most Hanna Barbera series)
  • Well, while CGI requires a totally different sort of work on the part of the animators, that doesn't mean that it's going to hit high framerates. The rendering alone takes a lot of time, and the animation is still an art - can you make characters that walk realistically in 2d or 3d? It's not particularly easy.

    Reboot was limited because not only did they have a very tight schedule, being a weekly show, but also because it was the first AFAIK show entirely in CGI meaning that the animators were still learning, and they had significantly less powerful computers to work with than they do today. The stunning difference between the end of the 2nd season and the beginning of the 3rd season highlights this.

    Akira, IIRC, was filmed on ones (meaning 24fps - it's a movie) but it's virtually alone in that class. I liked it a lot, though my favorite anime movies are probably Dirty Pair: Project Eden, and Patlabor 2. Anime isn't frequently done at Akira levels is all I'm saying. If the animators are careful, it doesn't have to be (this is where the dramatic pauses come in... ;)

    And Eva has lots of good animation in some parts, and cheats insanely at others. I believe there's a full two minutes of Rei on an elevator in which there are probably 10 frames for the entire scene. By the end of the series they were IIRC over budget and behind schedule and it shows.

    The Marvel series on Fox are awful, you're right. IMHO this is because they're trying to animate the same character designs that they use for the comics. One of the greatest successes of the Batman cartoon was that the character designs were so simple that fluid animation was relatively easy. (the excellent writing didn't hurt either) Animating each and every hair on Wolverine's arms is a PITA. It's got a lot to do with why it's so jerky at times. They had crappy backgrounds too.

    The work that the Warner Bros. animation department did in the 30s-50s was really good, with lots of subtle movement all the time that probaby wasn't necessary, but really makes the shorts look great. No one does this anymore (e.g. characters idly shifting from foot to foot even though that's not the center of attention) Unfortunately their work started to get pretty bad by about the midpoint of Chuck Jones' reign - overly cute character designs and poor writing.

  • Why would you bother to edit out the cigarette and leave the smoke? Would it be that hard for even young kids to make the connection? And on a side note, when did showing someone smoke on TV become unacceptable?

    There's just no way that an American cartoon produced today can portray casual smoking to a young audience. It's almost like having a character transform into his secret identity by drinking cleaning fluid and jumping into an abandoned refrigerator. An absurd smoking toothpick is far more justifiable than actual clear-as-day cigarette smoking.

    It is a shame, though. Just last night this subject came up and the example was given that it would be practically impossible these days for a show to have even a somewhat sympathetic character smoking, like J. Jonah Jameson puffing on a cigar, unless maybe it's the episode where he gets jaw cancer.

    If I recall correctly, there were a few characters in Looney Toones that smoked.

    Actually, things went way beyond that [] in that era.

  • Do you prefer to watch your titles dubbed, or in Japanese with the English subtitles? Sometimes I prefer one, sometimes I prefer the other.

    Also, as others have said, I would support an Anime Network spinoff. I definitely would want the Macross, Neon Genesis Evangelion and Escaflowne to be played though. They are my favorites.


  • "...Jon is to geekdom as Hitler was to his victims..."

    Godwin's Law. Thread closed. *THUMP*
  • Uh, this is incredibly funny considering that episode two has about 5 minutes in a smoke filled room. And the smoke looks incredible, they did a great job with a lot of the CG effects in this.

    Of course the bigger editing is done on Mewtio and her freinds, they are mermaids essentially, not Disney mermaids either. :)

  • It's called the Cartoon Network, not the Children's Network. I know, I know. Cartoons are for kids in the U.S.

    Have you, however, looked at the other animated shows on the CN? Johnny Bravo's constant come-on's and degredation of women (granted it's making fun of him). Siezure-inducing violence of the Powerpuff Girls (awesome show). Other cartoons that are irreverent and slightly rude (nudge, nudge).

    Just because the shows use voice actors instead of "live" actors and the situations are over-the-top doesn't mean they are all geared towards children...intenionally anyways.

    Also, can you please show me where you get the idea that pedophelia is "HUGE" in Japan? I'm sure a good number of Japanese citizens would take offense at that remark.

    Looking at American non-animated television and movies I could probably create a few links between, oh, Popular, Saved by the Bell, Porky's, American Pie, Dawson's Creek, 90210, Episode I, and numerous others and the "HUGE" wave of pedophelia in the U.S.

    Just something to think about.
  • Strange that you would consider Japanese animated television and film to be eroding Japanese and American culture. What about American television and film? Is it not degrading the way of life for people across the globe, not to mention here in the U.S.?

    Also, if you want real (note tongue-in-cheek) Japanese culture turn off your Bach and Miles Davis for a moment and listen to some truly groundbreaking audio experimentation (mistakenly called "noise") by the likes of audio masters Boredoms, Merzbow, Masonna, Melt Banana, KK Null, etc. If you think anime is the decline of culture, you haven't seen or heard anything yet.
  • Card Captor Sakura's been showing on WB for about a month or two. Unfortunately, they renamed the series to Cardcaptors and cut out a lot of the episodes focusing on Sakura. Check out [] for more info (only good for 4 more days, it's the July issue) herryblossoms/ [] looks like a pretty good site for analysis of the American dub.
  • Compare The Lion King and Hamlet sometime in the near future. Then give Hamlet a happy ending, and compare again.

  • Can you do me a favor?
    My karma has gotten too high. I need to drop it by about 20 points. Please go into my user info and start moderating down my previous comments. Don't worry about the moral implications, I'm clearly abusing the +2 bonus and deserve what I get.
  • by Felinoid ( 16872 )
    Mods like this is what M2 is for...
    It's likely someone eather dosn't like ReBoot or objects to the whole Anima theme.

    This one is inline for the famous Slashot:BitchSlap.

    Insert evil laugh

    Grab bad moderator throw him into convenently placed pile of boxes as moderator smuches one... [Reboot Season 1 refrence]

    Personally I liked the viruses :)
  • by blaine ( 16929 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @05:58PM (#898748)
    You'll notice that anime now has its own category. If you don't want it, filter it out. Thats what the filters are there for.
  • What about the other 2 cuties from the FreeBSD booth? Hello nurse!
  • I only bothered to watch a few of the episodes in the midnight showing (I have to work too early to be up that late), and the only difference I noticed was in episode one, appairntly Heero saying "I'll kill you" to Relena had to be changed into "I'll distroy you" for the small childeren in the audience. That change made no sence to me, I could only assume that it came from the Japanese somehow...
  • Depending on the system of conversion to Romanji, Washu is fine. In fact, it is the accepted version of the spelling of her name. The one that they botched horribly was "Aeka" which they spelled "Ayeka" for no good reason. Look up the FAQ for the various spellings.

    (BTW, I maintain the FAQ, and I don't think I have ever seen anyone spell it with two uu's. If you are going to spell it differently, it is usuall wasyu with a yu (which sounds closer to how she pronunces her name).
  • I was actually refereing to the character design and the lack of hair that resembles modern art. Blame that on sailor moon. Tenchi, of course, takes that to the ultimate extreme.
  • by tenchiken ( 22661 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @07:00PM (#898753)
    There are plenty of series that fit into what you are trying to see. While some anime quality has gone downhill (observe the sheer number of wacky ideas in Urusai Yatsura vs. Ranma 1/2) much of it is still awesome. Here are some I particullarly like.

    1) Ghibili's work... I can hear the see, as well as the more traditional "Nauscaa, Mononoke, Laputa etc". These are great stories with fairly good animation. The character designs are not real extravagent, but in the post-sailor moon days that's probibly a good thing. They all tell a story (most of which I disagree with) but are excelent. This tends to be the man vs. nature themese that were so prevelant early on in the century.

    2) Cowboy Bebop

    Is a effort to tell stories about the greys. There arn't any hero's per se, but the story is a bit more day in the life. The artwork is excellent.

    3) Gundam Wing.

    (Don't scoff). Wing takes a long hard look at pacifism and war. It examines everything from the commonly held belief that war is needed to "refresh" civilization (Jefferson and Hitler both though this) to the idea that violence is never sanctioned.

    4) Lain

    Umm... good... evil? Not in this series. Not that there arn't absolutes, but rather that the story is about the melding of life with electronics. How people act, see the world, and commuincate are all very affected.

    5) Rurouni Kenshin (Samurai X)

    See the OVA's. From what you have written This may be the closest. It follows the Meiji Restoration (civil war) and also goes over themes like what I have mentioned above.
  • It looks like they will be doing some heavy digital editing because, "the folks at CN want the channel to be a safe place to go to [for kids]."

    The article says that "This allows them to keep the show intact, and it makes everyone associated with the show very happy. (note: It also makes the fans very happy)." Well, it doesn't make me happy nor the fans in my local anime clubs.

    And... "They split the costs with the producer of the anime." This could mean the producers sensing a growing market in America may begin self censorship in future productions. That is bad.
  • What the hell are you talking about? To me, this *is* news. You know, "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters". This definitely fits in both categories.
  • It kind of looks sick.

    Someone should make a better one.
  • You're my favorite troll. Do you write this stuff, or just gank it from somewhere? My friend thinks you write it, but I'm guessing it's "borrowed."

    -Andy Martin
  • Why don't they bring back RoboTech? That was the most kick ass series when I was a kid. I wish they'd bring it back - the original ones, with Min Mae and Rick Hunter!
  • Okay, make that 4 imposters...
  • Heh - yeah, I don't know if it's male or female, but it's definately elfin! Check out them ears!
  • VALD you mean - not Vlad - I didn't post that.
  • Do you admit that Akira didn't suffer from these problems? Truely one of my favorite movies - right up there with BladRunner, The Matrix, and The Magnificent Seven (which is a remake of a Kurosawa film).
  • What about Fantasia? What about Bambi? What fairy tale was Bambi taken from? How about Toy Story? How about The Lion King? Don't knock Disney - rather thank them for the efforts that lead to Anime having a chance in the first place.
  • Oh - like all the crap Jackie Chan did before he came to the States? Right. ;-)
  • Don't knock Disney. If it wasn't for those "Whores", Anime would have a much tougher road to hoe.
  • Thank goodness people can see user numbers now. Only a moron would mistake you for me.
  • Woo Hoo! All of them in one set? How many DVD's will that be?
  • Go away stupid troll.
  • The Lion King is rehashed Hamlet.
  • by / ( 33804 )
    As much as Quentin Tarantino has pushed Chungking Express as a truly wonderful film, I can't say it appealed to me. When it was over, a gaping pit remained where the plot should have been.
  • ions_whatisanime.htm []

    Not according to this essay, or indeed any source I've been able to find in ten minutes of Google-searching that has actual research and scholarship to back it up. If I had some of my books handy, I'd go through and do a nice essay-style citations, but I trust you know how to use a search engine.

    The explanation certainly makes sense; if it directly lifted from English it would be called some variation of "animation", allowing for Japanese pronounciation. the French/Japanese connection makes more sense, again allowing for pronounciation.

    These are *MY* opinions.

  • I've been an anime fan from way back. (Not just Japanese anime, of course - and if you think non-Japanese anime is a contradiction, well, the word's a loan-word via French for "animation". Works for me.)

    The total otaku who insist doggedly that their favorite masterpieces be completely unsullied are, IMO, full of it. Translation is *never* enough; literal translations are dry and lifeless. Localizations are what are required; one must smooth the differences in the two languages/cultures involved, especially when they are as different as Japanese and English/American culture. It burns me even more when I hear rants on how "Americans are not worthy of this art" - well, a country that invented the concept of virtual dating games, Pokemon, and the schoolgirl fetish has more than a few things to answer for itself. We're all fscked up equally; the difference is HOW.

    That said, I hate the Serena/Usagi thing. "Bunny" is a perfectly good English name. Makes the character sound like a ditz, but... well... duh.

    These are *MY* opinions.

  • I'm not an anime fan, never have been, and don't think I ever can be. But, I will admit that I have great respect for the talents of the many wonderful artists who work on all the anime that is out there.

    One thing I noticed about this article was that it was poorly written. Grammatical errors abound, and on a more general level, stylistically it was written so that my first thought was not of what exact point they were trying to portray (which I presume, by now, was merely doling out information about Toonami, which must be an anime company), but rather was "this is crack!"

    But, I noted that the article did mention "Reboot" - which, if I'm understanding this correctly, is/was a CGI (am I correct? - has to be..) cartoon that I watched every Saturday for a long time. I loved that show.

    Anyway, I guess the point of my post was to comment that they need to work on their journalism... ermm... hmm.. uh...
  • by WillAffleck ( 42386 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @10:47PM (#898774)
    The majority of other programmers and "nerds" I know like anime. Some like it more than others, and so I see no problem with the topic on Slashdot. If you don't like anime, you can IGNORE anime topic posts, just like you would a Katz article. Not everyone likes anime. Not everyone likes Star Wars either, but it still has its own topic and nobody seems to complain.

    While Anime has a high geek quotient (in that many in geekdom are nutso for anime), I don't think the same holds true for Katz. Jon is to geekdom as Hitler was to his victims - Both talk about them a lot, but neither respects them and both are given to overexaggeration of their abilities and importance or lack thereof.

    Why not a Poll - Anime vs Katz - I expect you'd get a 4:1 ratio even with Jon trying to get the trolls to stuff the ballot box for him.

  • TROLL!

    Where're my moderator points when I need 'em,
    - Twon
  • Yes. I have to credit Evangelion with having (with the exception of a few scenes, generally involving Misato) the most disturbing, least sexual use of nudity EVER.
  • when did showing someone smoke on TV become unacceptable?

    Once the public found out how bad smoking is for you. Back in the Looney Toones days the dangerous of smoking weren't as well known.
  • ... that Anime is created in mind for the adult audience.

    What I have a problem with is that American society still thinks of all cartoons as childern's entertainment.

    If Cartoon Network cannot accept the responsibility giving us unedited versions of Anime, then they should not broadcast Anime.

    At least give some respect to the people who create these wodnerful works of art. Is it our fault that Disney sucks at animation?

    ChozSun [e-mail] [mailto]
  • I know what you mean. The great fear is always that when something gets released over here through a mainstream operation, the non-hacked-up version will not only not be made available, but will be prevented from being made available through normal channels (fansubs, etc.).

    You know, back in the evangelization phase of American anime culture, people (me, included ;_;) thought popularity would be a good thing.

    But after awhile, I realized that popularity is _never_ a good thing (OT: witness Kuro5hin or even the decline of Slashdot). In the case of anime because it can end up with the real fans being sacrificed in favor of more "mainstream" audiences.

    However, to quote Ambassador Kosh (B5), "The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."

  • Lord. Yes, and music in America has utterly died and descended into Britney Spears and N'Sync. Theatre has been replaced by re-runs of "Roseanne" (or perhaps the latest action film starring Arnold and his walker) and fine art has given way to supermarket logos. Literature has ceased, the closest thing being either Stephen King's self-described "Literary equivilent of a Big Mac" or the summeries on the back of the box of the home video copies of "Cheers".

    Lets just kill ourselves now before the government outlaws the use of sharp and dangerous instruments, guns, and chewable dramamine.
  • Let's see some Poképorn! []

    Courtesy of Stile and the Stile Project.

  • Kawaii! An anime topic! (Goes to add it to preferences)

    Iie desu ne!

    Anyway: what I would really love to see one day (but probably never will) is the 24/7 Anime Channel. Nothing but all of the best, most innovative series, OAV's and full-length anime movies from Japan all on one station 24/7, 365 with no censorship and no commercials. Think about it: Ranma, Sailor Moon, Serial Experiment Lain, Urusei Yatsura, Cowboy Bebop, Grave of the Fireflies, Shojo Kaume Utena, Ghost In The Shell, Akira and a hundred other shows/series we've never even heard of, all subbed, dubbed or in the raw Japanese. If such a thing ever graced the airwaves, not only would I buy a telvision to watch it, I would spring for a friggin' home theater!

  • My favorite channel MTV (#include sarcasm.h) looks like it's rubbing off on /. MTV has taken itself from the music TV that it was and now is an icon for popculture TV. It disturbs me that /. is heading in this same direction. Is /. tring to be the one-stop geek culture center of the net? Should they? As you probably have guessed, my feeling is No. /. is a NEWS site not a CULTURE site. While they come close in implementation, the purpose is quite different. I'm wondering how much the Andoverizing of /. has effected content, or is /. just getting lame?

    Don't get me wrong, I used to love /. but lately, I've been becomimg more and more displeased. Is the hormone induced euphoria wearing off? Or is it going down hill?
  • Just think of the effect all of this 'clean' anime will have on the adults. In making it safe for our children, our adults will slowly become like the very children it's safe for. :)

    In all honesty though, as _long_ as it's as close to the original anime as possible, I don't mind slight edits for the sake of TV. It gives me an idea of whether I want to go and find it on DVD (preferred) or VHS (well, any port in a storm, as they say). I really dislike seeing anime mangled though (can we say Robotech?), in order to make it more 'acceptable' to US audiences.

    Who defines 'acceptable' anyway? In most cases, definitely not the original writers and directors.

  • As this [] /. article pointed out a while back, the first few episodes are available online. If you don't want to click the link, they are at []... of course Ranma would be really nice to see... but then it would be edited heavily... Well Eva would be nice too.... ah well, i can dream.
  • Strangely, even though america began as an open society, and in many respects remains that way, pollitcally, and ideologically it has been and is very isolationistic. This stems from the strong emphasis on individuality which requires a degree of isolation.

    There's and interesting book written in the 70s (don't recall the name) about the degree of masculine values (re-defined as individuality, competetive drive directed against fellow employees, expectaion of personal recognition) and femenine values (re-defined as prefering to work with others to solve problem, redirecting recognition to team members, cooperation with fellow employees in more aspects than what needs to be done) found in various nation's corporate cultures. They do the study by asking employees to rate how they prefer to work in respects to the values. The data collected shows the US UK and Japan to be (oddly) fairly equal in masculine values, and denemark, norway, and sweden to be fairly equal in femenine values. The implications of which are discussed to some degree, but I didn't read the whole thing.

    Basically if in the 70s an American were to interview with a danish company they might, through applying common interview tecniques of american culture, come off as over-competative, and possibly incapable of teamwork; conversly a danish person interviewing at an american firm might be thought incapable of individual innovation, lacking in desire to strike out for change etc... None of this says whether any of these values are good or bad, but by understanding the difference it more likley for an american company to do well with danish employees in a danish branch rather than feeling they must hire americans and bring them over at greater cost.

    Anyway, in general an isolationist view of the world leads to xenophobia, and worse yet, wars... lots of them. So better than getting all worked up about cultural pillars and ways of life and social change, just relax a bit and enjoy whats available to you. If you start thinking about the way things should be for your children's children you're thinking a bit too much since you realy have no control over the political and social atmosphere that will exist by then.

    The above does not apply to environmental issues, those can be fairly clearly defined as good and bad, and you should be thinking about your children's children.

  • ReBoot is not anime, at least not in my collection.

  • Thats why its on my shelf and deserves a genre to itself. :)

  • by Lion-O ( 81320 )
    Obviously, and as usual, this will only be limited to the American version of CN I guess... I hope they will get to their senses one day and also show the Europeans better cartoons than giving us 24/7 reruns of old Hanna Barbara cartoons which get pretty boring after seeing them run for a zillion times.
  • I didn't know you could go into people's user info and do that. Neat.

    *Writes that down*

    Now all I need are modpoints...

  • You can romanize it either way. You could also romanize it as Saitoo, but I've never seen it this way in a subtitle.

    I prefer Saitou because that makes more sense to me. I also prefer to keep the name in Japanese order.

    Of course, these are just nitpicky things.

  • by Maul ( 83993 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @07:50PM (#898792) Journal
    It seems that most of the Slashdotters around here are pretty happy to see an anime topic. However, there are quite a few that aren't.

    The majority of other programmers and "nerds" I know like anime. Some like it more than others, and so I see no problem with the topic on Slashdot. If you don't like anime, you can IGNORE anime topic posts, just like you would a Katz article. Not everyone likes anime. Not everyone likes Star Wars either, but it still has its own topic and nobody seems to complain.

    Slashdot is supposed to be news for all types of nerds. Not just "your" type of nerd, so your always going to see things you don't like. Live with it.

  • by linuxonceleron ( 87032 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @06:06PM (#898793) Homepage
    I'm not really a big fan of anime, but I see that Cartoon Network may have quite a market considering how big their Toonami section has grown. They could have a pay channel with uncut (but not pornographic) anime. Audio would consist of the standard MTS stereo channel with english audio and the SAP channel with japanese audio. Subtitles would be obtained using the caption signals which would be broadcast. This would allow one channel to please almost all the anime fans, many of which can't get the movies very easially. Of course, multiple channels (one sub, one dub) like HBO has would make things easier, but might not be possible for a startup network.

  • For all of you anime fans out there, Otakon 2000 [] is august 4,5, and 6th in Baltimore, MD. Tons of neat events, and really fun. I went last year and loved it so much I am going again this year. hope to see some slashdotters representing.

  • It's about the story. That's where Disney will stomp a mudhole in those japs anyday.

    Yeah. Let me know when Disney comes up with an original story and just some whitewashed retelling of an old-world fairy tail.

    Why are people all of a sudden into anime?

    Like you said: "It's about the story." Most anime has well-told original stories. Not just the same old prince-saves-the-beautiful-maiden-from-the-evil-st epmother crap.

    Heyyyy, wait a minute. You're just a troll?!? Nevermind then.


  • Actually, it's only a sexually repressed society because we (the USofA) conquered them, and added our puritanical 'wisdom' to their society's laws.

    You can thank the USofA for the pedophilia problem. We outlawed pubic hair in photographs and drawings. Consequently, the most portrayed part of society is that which is least likely to have pubic hair. We sure showed them, didn't we.

    All of these young, breast-less, big eyed girls in these shows, with their short skirts and knee-high socks, are really just a subtle way of losening our children's morals and making them more susceptible to attack from a pedophile.

    Your children are more susceptible to attack because you try to hide reality from them. You make them go to strangers to learn about sex, and to learn why their bodies are the way they are. If we stopped lieing to them ("The stork brought you" "I found you in a cabbage patch") we might have a chance to save them, and they might not grow up to become pedophiles.


  • What about Fantasia?

    No plot. No story. You should just hate that.

    What about Bambi?

    I don't know.

    How about Toy Story?

    Toy Story is NOT Disney.

    How about The Lion King?

    Lying King is a blatant rip-off of Kimba, The White Lion, a long-running animated Japanese television show from the 1960s. Read the comparisons here []

    Disney hasn't done anything original in decades. Their contribution to the success of anime in the US is much the same as Window's contribution to the success of Linux.


  • Heh, I'm an American and I agree with you 110%. I bet Cartoon Network is going to get a flood of mail from "concerned parents" once they start pimping out the anime lineup on the air, even though the stuff they'll show is going to be squeaky clean. A large portion of the idiots in this country are so deeply repressed (I'm talking even more repressed than the sad amount of repression that damn near everyone here suffers from) that as soon as they see some quality animation that doesn't have a two dimensional puppet singing, they immediately freak out like it was the Urotsukidoji or something. Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go watch a horror flick on the TV; don't worry, the quick flash of that chicks boobs just before she gets sliced into fish sticks has been carefuly removed so as not to harm anyone. :/

  • I don't know, that's some pretty damn good animation if you can beat someone to death with it. I don't know about that jackass pron, though; I saw a donkey show a few years back outside of TJ and that was pretty disturbing stuff.

  • by PsychoKick ( 97013 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @07:43PM (#898800)

    Get off your high horse. Speaking as someone who's had plenty of experience living in both Asian and Western culture, I say you're putting traditional Asian culture on a much higher pedestel than it deserves. Just because it's so oddly different from Western culture doesn't automatically make it any better (or worse). Difference is merely difference, it has no innate correspondence to worth or specialness.

    "The writings of the great authors are wine, my writing is water. Everybody drinks water."
    -Mark Twain (paraphrased)

    "Image is nothing. Thirst is everything. Obey your thirst."
    -wise words from a crass commercial

    And anyway, "low culture" entertainment eventually becomes "high culture," given enough time. Great writers such as Mark Twain, Shakespeare, and Salinger were all reviled as uncouth hacks in their time. If everyone merely followed in the footsteps of "the great ones", then culture would stagnate and die. I'd rather have a chaotic morass of crudeness and commercialism, because such humble, rude fodder is _needed_ to keep the soil of creativity fertile and rich, so that something stronger than the old can grow. I'm not willing to sacrifice growth just so one I can maintain a useless image of refinement and feel oh-so-superior. Like living creatures, when a culture feeds and grows, when times change, it's always _ugly_. It's impossible to be otherwise, simply because it's changing to something different from old standards of beauty.

    "May you live in interesting times."
    -ancient Chinese curse

    'Sides, if you're really looking for artsy anime titles, then the paltry few you mentioned sure as hell aren't going to cut it. Try out Mononoke Hime, Patlabor Movie #2, Gasaraki, Grave of the Fireflies, or Tale of Genji (yes, there's an anime adaptation). You won't find most of these right off the rental rack at Blockbuster, but if that's all the effort you're willing to expend in your search, then you certainly don't deserve the highfalutin', pseudo-scolarly studious attitude you're displaying, especially when it comes to anime. Can you say in all seriousness and honesty that you've watched a thousand different anime titles? Then you're in no position to judge it, no more than anyone who hasn't read a thousand different books is for judging literature.

    I think I need to lie down and relax now. Where are my encyclopaedias?
  • Ok, I hope whoever moderated me down a) reads this post, and b) suffers the wrath of Taco and co. for their horrible moderation.

    Did you even READ the article? Or the post? ReBoot is one of the things that's mentioned. If you'd like to let me know what the heck you were thinking, I'd be really interested in hearing.

    Normally, I don't get upset over this sort of thing. But in this case, I'll make an exception. Stupidity is one of the things that really gets to me.

  • I just feel like we need more love for ReBoot here. Nothing against anime, but I'm infinitely more excited about the ReBoot movies.

    ReBoot, for those of you who may not know, is a CGI cartoon by a Canadian company called Mainframe Entertainment. It was supposedly about the "sprites" inside of a computer. I know, it sounds bad.

    But it's not. Especially the second and third seasons of the show. It features fairly adult-targeted references and plots, such as the plot where the main character questions his own methods in hunting down his nemesis, or references to Army of Darkness or Bond movies. (completely with a bond-style intro).

    Regardless, check it out if you get a chance. The second and third seasons have some incredible episodes in them. My personal favorite is an episode that is influenced by two rather different sources: Star Wars: A New Hope, and spaghetti westerns. It's definitely worth a look.

  • "Toonami" ? What the hell is this ?

    Big budget CGI-ed anime about huge-eyed Geordie football supporters and the 'Toon Army ?

    The Fat Slags, in little sailor suits ?

    Look, if you're a Yank, just forget it. It's Brit humour and it doesn't travel

  • I hate to sound like the "total otaku," But americanization of anime is generally viewed as a "problem." Most of the people know that anime is from japan, and it wouldnt kill them to pick up some of the japanese culture when viewing their work.

    I'm Definatly not saying that direct literal translations are a requirement. The "Tastes like water" translated to "Tastes like dog piss" line in mononoke is a good example of proper translation. However, I am a rather large fan of linear notes and it wouldnt kill the viewers to learn about the concept of something as basic as a sensei or sempai.

    That said, feel free to smack me for being otaku-ish.

  • [i]But, I noted that the article did mention "Reboot" - which, if I'm understanding this correctly, is/was a CGI (am I correct? - has to be..) cartoon that I watched every Saturday for a long time. I loved that show. [/i] Reboot is indeed CGI, more importantly it's made in Canada (Vancouver B.C. to be exact) so it is definately NOT anime.
  • How much story do you expect in an hour or so long film? Its just meant as entertainment, not art. Two of those stories are just meant as a small part of their bigger manga Universe anyway. And what the hell is wrong with titilation for its own sake? Are you a prude?

    I am not American, so I wonder... That Albees and Updikes you mention who are saving you from cultural death, what percentage of Americans do you think which have voluntarily read them? I wouldnt be surprised if they arent "saving" a whole lot of Americans.

    Not that people like me really want to be saved... there is a very good reason we dont seek out translated Basho, it would bore us to death. Its just like with Classical music, apart from the more populist stuff I just dont grok it... doesnt do a thing for me, if thats for a lack of education fine so be it. But I can still enjoy a good movie like the Matrix, or a good anime like Mahou Tsukai Tai or a good Sci-Fi novel like Snow-Crash (actually something like "Use of weapons" is more my thing, but I wanted to pick something even someoene has highly cultured as yourself was likely to recognise). Those suit my coarse taste just fine. In the end this is all about taste, you have yours... keep it.
  • 1) Ghibili's work... I can hear the see, as well as the more traditional "Nauscaa, Mononoke, Laputa etc". These are great stories with fairly good animation. The character designs are not real extravagent, but in the post-sailor moon days that's probibly a good thing. They all tell a story (most of which I disagree with) but are excelent. This tends to be the man vs. nature themese that were so prevelant early on in the century.

    I agree with your choices, but I do have a comment or two on the above. It should be noted that nature is very much idealized by urban Japanese, and a connection to nature is considered by Japanese to be a big part of their character, regardless of whether they practice it or not. So the Ghibli stories, concentrating on the natural world and nostalgic themes (as in the wonderful "Only Yesterday") touch on a powerful societal chord.

    Also, I don't think you meant it as such, but it does look like you're defining the Ghibli work as "post-sailor moon", which we know isn't the case. Much of Miyazaki's work comes from before the magical girl genre.

    And don't be too quick to discount the value of shows like Sailor Moon. Those who have seen the original version know that there's a hell of a lot more depth to the story and characters that never made it to these shores. Blind SM-bashing for the sake of protecting machismo or some such is one thing, but let's be fair here.

  • Well, to answer my own question, I guess that the Cartoon Network replays the same daytime anime late at night because they've already bought the rights to it. But it would be nice if they could something different, aimed towrads "adults", like Ranma 1/2, Slayers, Fushigi Yugi and so on. Of course, these things would appeal to more people than simply adults, but Cartoon Network seems to be thinking "kids" when it does it's programming: Dragon Ball (blech!), Sailor Moon (blech!).

    If Cartoon Network is thinking long-term, they should try to increase the appeal of cartoons to adults, and one of the best ways to do that would be with Anime that has some appeal towards adults. I'd think that they'd also find that kids out there have more mature of a taste than the marketroids are giving them credit for.

    Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose that you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
  • I never thought of it as anime...

    Maybe because I like reboot, and I don't (generally) like anime. ;)

    Reboot has some very awesome graphics for a tv cartoon (these are the same guys that make Transformers beast wars/beasties) and you can even see an improvement from season to season (as they got more bucks for bigger iron...)

    If you ever get a chance - go on the Reboot ride film... it's pretty cool - went on it at the Playdium outside of Toronto last year... and it rocks.

    My favourite Reboot episode - the one where Big Enzo and Megabyte fight... the best part is when Enzo is down, and MB is running down the dome towards him... your first hint that he's coming is that Enzo's ear-ring starts to jangle... shortly before virbrations start shaking the entire building... It's a great fight scene all around.
  • by don_carnage ( 145494 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @06:04PM (#898830) Homepage
    What about Starblazers and Robotech? I wish Cartoon Network (or shall I say, Hanna Barbera) would get off their asses and get licenses for Akira, Fist of the Northstar and Guyver.

    I'm sure a lot of you would agree that they need to spin off a Toonami channel !


  • About Tenchi: They have gotten only a few calls about the 'sexiness' of Tenchi.

    Oh great, what next!? PokePorn?

    thinks to self: no wait, that CAN'T be new, I saw it last night []

  • by cirne ( 170545 ) on Friday July 28, 2000 @04:41AM (#898839)
    Well, one thing's for sure. People sure have different ideas about what anime is good and what isn't.

    Don't you understand, though, that different anime have completely different styles? Saying that "Gundam Wing is good and Sailor Moon is bad" is the same as saying "Seinfeld is good and Barney is bad". Just because I don't like rap music doesn't mean that it loses all credibility as a viable art form.

    And face the facts.. society is changing. No matter how much anyone wants to keep their deathgrip hold on the good old days, culture is changing all around us. And before you say it, that isn't a bad thing. We're not going to forget the past, we're not going to burn all the copies of Picasso's work, for instance... but if we tried to make all the new art follow the same form as the old art, society would stagnate. In a hundred years or two, music history classes will have essays on the deep emotional stress that instigated Eminem's work. (Ok, so maybe that's a little far-fetched.)

    Another major point that comes up is the subject of anime editing. Face it, our society here in America is different than Japanese society. Many of the anime series that go on Toonami, for instance, are meant to be children's shows. Now, in Japan, families are not worried about exposing their children to nudity, violence, or the more shocking aspects of society. However, Americans as a whole have more conservative taste.. and to keep the intent of the anime alive, edits have to be made. Just as someone who translates a book into another language must keep the author's thoughts intact, not just translate every idiom word-for-word, when a company translates an anime show for the US, if the target audience is children, then it must be edited to suit them. It's a fact of life. And no one is stopping you from watching the original episodes, if you really must see the uncut anime. I'm not saying that I like cut anime.. I can't stand watching it, in general. But does that mean I bitch and moan about it? No, that means I take it upon myself to find the uncut originals. Demanding that commercial translators give you your uncut anime just isn't going to work, because the market for it is anime otaku, which isn't that big. Businesses work for the market... and in this case the market is American children, because most American adults aren't into cartoons of any kind.

    My point, though, is that trying to pass off your personal opinions as fact is just foolish, because we all have different opinions. Personally, I like different things depending on the mood I'm in. If I've had a long day and I want to unwind with some non-thought-provoking stuff, I might pop in a tape of Sailor Moon, grab a Coke, and lie down on the sofa. It all depends on the mood, and more importantly on the tastes of the person that's watching. There's no such thing as a bad anime.. just one that you don't like.

  • In Blue Submarine, one of the characters continually smokes. Due to digitally re-editing, they were able to remove the cigarette in many scenes and in others, they changed it to a toothpick. Keep your eyes open, the one thing they did not edit out was the smoke from the cigarette.
    Why would you bother to edit out the cigarette and leave the smoke? Would it be that hard for even young kids to make the connection? And on a side note, when did showing someone smoke on TV become unacceptable? If I recall correctly, there were a few characters in Looney Toones that smoked.

  • by White Shadow ( 178120 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @06:15PM (#898847) Homepage
    ...I don't see any reason that we, the anime community, should view, promote, or even acknowledge the existence of this travesty. Until companies learn that anime is not to be hacked up to suit network TV, then they have no right to try to take over beloved series like Tenchi Muyo! or Pocket Monsters.
    How about to promote the ports of tapes to the US? While fansubs are nice, if you want to be able see all the anime that's in Japan, you really need to have large support from commercial companies. Fansubbers only sub what they want leaving tons of anime unknown to the world outside Japan.

    Another good thing to notice is that Cable networks are showing Anime on US TV in the first place. That's the first step in getting your uncensored anime. If anime becomes popular enough, it will only be a matter of time before you can watch Tenchi uncut, or perhaps even subtitled on US TV (I would love that). You can't expect American culture to change overnight, and I think this is a step in the right direction.

    I would hope that in the future, some shows might even be released at the same time in the US as in Japan, no need to wait a few years to get "old" anime.

  • I'm going to volunteer my knowledge of the japanese language here, so grab some japanese fonts for your browser then come back... ok, here it is:

    "Washu"(hH) written in kana is: íã Litterally, this is romanized as wa-sh+u-u, or Washuu. You can also romanize the 2nd and 3rd characters as syu... if you think of it as si+yu, but the 4th character means this is a long "u", so you can either do a double "uu" or do a u with a line over it.

    For the heck of it, here are the rest: "Ryoko"(éOEÄ) is èå± in kana, and 'Ryouko' in romaji. This isn't disputable, it's in clear furigana on the 1st OVA ep title screen. Go watch the DVD set if you want confirmation.

    "Ayeka" is ¦© in kana and "Aeka"... We agree on this point, but for reference, it's in the furigana in the title of ep 2.

    "Ryo-Ohki"(écS) is èå in kana and "Ryou-ou-ki" in romaji. In the furigana for ep 3's title.

    "Tenchi", "Sasami", "Nobuyuki", "Mihoshi", "Kiyone", and "Katsuhito" are all correct.

    The names I haven't mentioned I've forgotten exactly or aren't really in any dispute :)

    BTW, I've never seen your FAQ, but you might want to add this info to it. Also... The names I referenced with("ayeka" etc) are the official "english" names of the characters.. and you will see them in japanese books on the show... but.. if you want the japanese names, refer to the above
  • by vertical-limit ( 207715 ) on Thursday July 27, 2000 @06:00PM (#898861)
    ...Another anime topic and already have the posts are accused anime of being about sex and tentacle rape. Of course, any real otaku knows that anime is about everything but that -- these people seem to have confused Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon with X-Men.

    Speaking of which, if the Cartoon Network episodes of Tenchi Muyo! are going to horribly hacked up (hell, I bet they're spelling Washuu's name as "Washu" or something equally stupid), then I don't see any reason that we, the anime community, should view, promote, or even acknowledge the existence of this travesty. Until companies learn that anime is not to be hacked up to suit network TV, then they have no right to try to take over beloved series like Tenchi Muyo! or Pocket Monsters.

  • Maybe it's better they don't release it on TV; then it doesn't get hacked. Nadesico and Eva certianly wouldn't survive the process. Anime's much more widespread than four years ago. Hopefully the process will continue and some cable network will see the light. More preferably, hopefully some cool developer or cofounder will put those options to good use and start an all-anime cable channel, altering only to add 3 (not 4) commercials per episode.

    I know someone took great time and care drawing the new anime topic icon; but, uhm, am I the only one that finds it unrepresentatively un-kawaii? There are so many cute or cool characters out there; Ruri [], Mill-chan [], Ed [], Miyu [], Van, []Lain [], etc. So they probably can't be used, but fan art sites, like [] have artists who would love to have their fine work represented every four days or so on the cover of /., and the results would definitely be visually pleasaing (which is kinda the point, ne?).
  • What has really surprised me the most is how much work Cartoon Network is actually putting into their release of Tenchi- I was expecting any of the scenes which contained nudity would have been cut out and thus severely hampered the storyline.

    Instead, they're actually spending the time and money (and it takes a lot of time and money) to go back and overlay swimsuits on all the frames of Tenchi in order to bring it to U.S. standards. Granted, I think there's nothing wrong with nudity, but somewhere between the Greeks and now, nudity became taboo, and we must appease the majority of conservative america.

    Even being a fairly hardcore anime fan I would say we ought to really applaud what C.N. is doing. Even with Escaflowne, all that's changed are the opening and closing, so I'd say anime is gaining more respect in its original art form. (music and the opening is more action oriented)

    (well, except for Cardcaptors, (C.C.S.) but lets not go there.)


    And lastly, a blatant plug- for those of you living in the Houston area, come visit the Rice University Anime club. Drop me an e-mail ( or drop by the webpage []
    for info. We'll officially start back up again this year first week of September. And there is a big library of all of this fan subtitled anime that everyone keeps mentioning for free to all members.

One good suit is worth a thousand resumes.