Comment Re: I never thought I'd say this... (Score 1) 353
And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
This quote is often used by people that don't know the whole quote or do and intentionally omit the end. Here is the rest of it. "Jesus looked at them and said, "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God." No where does Jesus proclaim that a man is entitled to another man's property.
Yes, you can. Indeed, it is required to be so. That's not the same as "no private property", though. You've just moved the goalposts.
How did I do that, please don't tell me it's because I didn't explicitly say owning the means of production? We are talking about worker owner relationships, your quote was about the threat of workers rioting because the owners are pocketing what is rightfully theirs. That has nothing to do with owning a house, car, or any other possession, it's hard to believe you are that dumb.
The use of violence implies that the workers are entitled to the profits beyond what they originally agreed to, and they are simply taking what is theirs.
No, the means of production being owned by the workers is socialism. Threat of violence is merely one mechanism through which socialism can be brought about. The threat of violence can similarly be used to bring about other forms of socioeconomic organization. It's not peculiar to socialism. Capitalists have used the threat of violence against workers as well; was this also socialism?
Could you find where I stated that violence is only a tool of socialism? Didn't think so? Using violence because you think you are entitled to someone else's property is socialism and is how socialism has taken hold.
Vladimire Lenin "Peaceful surrender of power by the bourgeoisie is possible, if it is convinced that resistance is hopeless and if it prefers to save its skin. It is much more likely, of course, that even in small states socialism will not be achieved without civil war, and for that reason the only programme of international Social-Democracy must be recognition of civil war."
You argued that it was their ownership of technology that entitled them to the gains afforded by it, did you not? Or are you now saying that its their work, not the ownership stake, that entitles them to reap the majority of the benefits provided by technology? Make up your mind.
Is it possible that the owner is in his tractor plowing the fields? Here is your quote.
However, we've established that the people footing the bill aren't working hard, they're merely owning capital.
That has not been established the people footing the bill can be working hard, just not doing unskilled labor.
Why wouldn't it fall on the people making the bulk of the money (the capitalists who own technology, as opposed to those who labor)? You seem to be contradicting yourself again.
I'll try to explain it very simply so even you can under stand. These numbers are just for illustration so don't take them literally. We start out with 90% of the people working, those 90% pay for the safety net of the 10% of lazy people 11.11% of their pay goes to the safety net. 5% of the people realize that they too could stop working and live off the safety net. Now 85% are paying for 15%, and pay 17.64% of their pay for the safety net. You simply can't have more people taking the same amount out while having fewer people put something in unless the people putting something in put in more.