SGI Releases IDE 133
johnrpenner writes " SGI has released "Jessie" - an open source development environment for Linux. It provides an advanced IDE (integrated application environment) with comprehensive debugging tools and a highly graphical interface that eliminates the need for employing older command-line tools." However there doesn't seem to be linkage to anything more than a press release.Update: 09/21 11:41 by H : Check SGI's Jessie site for more information.
Where to get Jessie (Score:1)
Re:Too bad.. (Score:1)
-Dean
Re:Please enlighten me about Irix GCC issues (Score:1)
Download gcc
http://reality.sgi.com/ariel/freeware/
Download header & linker
http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/sgi/gcc-irix.htm
Done, No fuss No muss.
Re:hmmmm (Score:1)
Add more languages to the syntax highlighting is quite easy and I can give you the simple instructions offline, if you wish.
-Dean
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
Read the licence more closely, they can revoke your binary or source licence at any time.
Re:Well, yes... (Score:1)
To RMS, they Qt Free Edition licencing is fine. It has a similar effect to releasing Qt under the GPL --- RMS doesn't promote commercial software at all.
Also, the person/group who "Rubber Stamps" "Open Source Licences" is the OSI at opensource.org.
Re:Can "Free" or "Open Source" sofware be in Java (Score:1)
It is possible for there to be a Free UNIX for Emacs to run on. There is no Free Java, and I'm not sure that there legally *can* be one.
Re:Can "Free" or "Open Source" sofware be in Java (Score:1)
-Dean
Re:The current release looks and feels like VAPORW (Score:1)
XEMACS isn't an IDE in the truest sense, it is a great editor with the ability to run tools from it. If that were considered an IDE, vi and tcsh (or bash) could also be considered an IDE. I don't know anything about the Nirvana editor, so I won't comment on it.
Jessie exists, runs, and you can get the code for it. There is still a lot of functionality to be added to it, but by giving it to the world, we are explicitly looking for input on what functionality is important.
-Dean
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
That's what we're all trying to figure out! Apparently not much guaging from your many tiresome and repetitve posts.
You feel ripped off. Understood. Now go have a snack or something, eh?
I'll use emacs thank you. (Score:1)
#!/bin/sh
at the top and then to used
export PATH=$PATH:...
which is a error in "sh" because it's "bash". It's sad when you can't even get past the first 15 lines of code.
Re:Java script? (Score:1)
--
I'm so torn.. (Score:1)
While I don't exactly like IDEs all that much, much less "a highly graphical interface that eliminates the need for employing older command-line tools." (If I wanted a pretty GUI to keep me away from my computer, I'd use MacOS, damnit. As far as debuggers go, I'm still pretty happy with gdb), since my favorite girl's name is Jessilin, an IDE named "Jessie" seems pretty cool (should have been spelled "Jessi", though, IMO :).
Can "Free" or "Open Source" sofware be in Java (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure that it's being in Java rules it out of the class of RMS "Free Software" as it requires propritatary software to run. (It may be an open standard, but I don't know of any Free JRE)
I'd also think this violates (at least in spirit, if not in practice) the OSI "Open Source Principles".
It doesn't really matter if it's released under and Open Source licence if it requires closed tools to run.
Re:Jessie (Blatantly Offtopic) (Score:1)
Re:Already posted (Score:1)
Finally good IDE tools for Linux (Score:1)
Re:the real news is... (Score:1)
Eric
Java script? (Score:1)
Come on.
Really?
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
Anyway, its a shrinkwrap license: unenforceable.
I haven't seen our source code license, but I'll believe you on that count.
Linkage (Score:4)
--
Already posted (Score:2)
I already posted a feature about this "jessie" (If I'm not mistaken)..
linkage (Score:1)
Isnt this old news? (Score:2)
But then again, I might be off the edge here.
Jessie tool linkage (Score:3)
A bit of the license opening material (trimmed):
Re:Can "Free" or "Open Source" sofware be in Java (Score:1)
> I'm pretty sure that it's being in Java rules
> it out of the class of RMS "Free Software" as
> it requires propritatary software to run.
> (It may be an open standard, but I don't know
> of any Free JRE)
>
There are other Java's available that are much more "free" (in an RMS sense) that Sun's version, such as Kaffe. Unfortunately Jessie doesn't currently work with Kaffe, but that is currently being looked into.
In all the Jessie demos to various luminaries (including ESR and Miguel) that I have given, the issue has never come up as a problem.
-Dean
Re:I'll use emacs thank you. (Score:1)
-Dean
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
If anything is going to be Free, it should be that wich is required to make a program run.
If Sun wanted to, they could suddenly go "Nope, no-one can use Java any more". This is bad.
Talk to RMS about this, he could clarify the situation further.
Re:KDevelop Vs. Jessie (Score:1)
Is this true? Do you really have to pay a license to develop commercial K applications?
Re:Jessie (Blatantly Offtopic) (Score:1)
How can I find a woman like that?
Yes - Re:KDevelop Vs. Jessie (Score:1)
Please see http://www.troll.no/pricing.html
Price List Qt/Unit - 1 Dev + 1 yr service/support - $ 1,550 DAldredge
GDB?! (Score:1)
Re:Just a debugger/profiler? (Score:1)
Qt commercial - Re:Yes - Re:KDevelop Vs. Jessie (Score:2)
Why do you see the Qt commercial licence as a "problem"?
GPL = no commercial/closed source development
LGPL = anything goes.
The Qt commercial licence offers a middle ground of sorts - if you want it for free, you have to distribute source. If you want to write closed source commercial apps, there is a strong financial incentive not to. This deters the proliferation of $10-40 closed source shareware apps that plague the Windows world. As far as I know, there's nothing to deter people from creating closed source GNOME apps.
IMO, Troll Tech has found a great way to support themselves (through commercial support and licences) while providing the Open Source community with a great toolkit free of charge. If you don't pay, you have to deal with the 'GPL-like' terms of their licence. Where's the problem?
MBA
Kudos to sgi for contributing (Score:1)
Whether or not it's an outstanding product in it's current form, kudos to SGI for contributing to open source, and being savvy enough to have Dean diligently peruse these
Oh and before I forget, the KDevelop boosters didn't seem to notice what seemed to be the most important potential with Jessie: it's "focus on scalability, providing multi-process and multi-thread support for large applications".
We can only gain from this contribution.
SGI should be recognized for their goood work (Score:3)
Thanks
Bruce Perens
Re:the real news is... (Score:1)
> After the second window opened, it grabbed all my ram, and about half my swap. Everything
> slowed to a crawl, and ps showed dozens of processes. None of my other software does this.
On my machine (RH 6, blackdown 1.1.7v3, dual 350Mhz, 256 MB), with a simple toy program, I see
that there are 3 processes attributable to Jessie
gdb 1.54 MB
sh
java 11.52 MB
what other processes are you seeing?
-Dean
Oracle has the same problems... (Score:1)
#!/bin/sh
setenv PATH
ORACLE_HOME=/oracle/
export ORACLE_HOME
---
FEH! Mix and match your shell!
Chris
Re:Just a debugger/profiler? (Score:2)
There are several reasons that we didn't just start with DDD.
retrofitting scalability is just as bad. Ask any debugger folks that have added things like thread support and other SMP constructs.
There were several other reasons that have been lost in the mists of time.
-Dean
Re:Can "Free" or "Open Source" sofware be in Java (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Please enlighten me about Irix GCC issues (Score:1)
-Dean
Re: (Score:1)
What really you'llde be cool (Score:1)
These days where seeing a lot of graphical tools to develope for linux (like the one from metrowerks for example this one and the one already present in the community) :(
All these tools are equivalent.
They all use the same compiler: gcc/egcs. What really cares IMHO is the code generation process not the way the source code is written and the makefile handled.
Good news is that chip makers are giving components to the gcc/egcs project (Intel gave many hours to the project and those changes will be incorporated to the 3.0 release of gcc, Motorola gave the egcs project all the needed thing to the support of altivec)
What is needed to improve ggc/egcs and all linux applications is competition on the compiler tools. Has everyone could observe the competition between KDE and GNOME was an overall good thing for the two project and the community in general.
Competition is available on the beowulf/normal intel platfrom (you can buy absoft fortrant that comes whith C and C++ too)
Competition will soon appear on Alpha (thanks compag for this move, apps are getteing from 10%-30% speedups and up to 50% speed ups for fp intensive apps)
Since linux is cross-platform the bad news about this competition is that it's not available on all platform and every platform will have its own optimoise compiler so will still use ggc to compile the kernel
I'de like to see a real cross-platform compiler arrise from the linux world which is as good as commercial products.
Re:SGI is the only idiot here. (Score:1)
When this happened in IRIX 6.2, SGI made freely available (even without shipping costs) the IRIS Development Foundation (IDF) which is all the headers and libraries and utilities that gcc cant provide (such as an assembler), basically everything except a compiler.
When IRIX 6.5 came out, because the demand for the IDF had been so high, they included it with the base OS again. They didnt realize how many users ran gcc and didnt know that so many people wanted the IDF. Once they found out they were mistaken, instead of giving it away on request, they included it in every copy of the next all platform IRIX release.
I dont mind people complaining about valid points, but it was always there for anyone who bothered to use the search function on SGI's website.
For anyone who currently wants the IDF for 6.2 as they haven't or cant upgrade, while they normally do not ship the IDF out anymore, you may be able to get it from SGI if you ask nicely. Nicely does not include comments like the ones in the previous post.
One more point I would like to make though. If you check the GNU binutils package, specifically under IRIX, there are some required things just not available. What do you do when the open source free product you may want to use just doesnt have the proper capability to function in the enviroment? Nobody can tell me it is SGI or MIPS fault that there is no gas for IRIX.
Re:Java != JavaScript (Score:1)
Re:the real news is... (Score:1)
-Dean
Kicking the gift-horse in the mouth (Score:3)
Hmm.. It is so damn funny..
I have never seen more complaining in my life.
I just came from the Corel thread, COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN.
SGI Gives away a new IDE.. COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN.
The funny thing is, I don't see people that actually contribute to the compunity complaining.
Dean from SGI seems to be running around answering questions, trying to please you babies.
Just show a bit of grattitude.
Some opinions (Score:1)
Pros:
+ The gprof analyzer looks really beautiful. Maybe not as powerful as NuMega TrueTime or Rational Quantify, but very promising. But definetly better than reading raw gprof output.
Cons:
- Java. I really don't like Java on Linux. But I will give it another try with this application. Maybe it will be my first usable Java application.
- The data displayer does not look as powerful as in i.e. DDD.
Re:Some opinions (Score:1)
Not yet anyways
If you are interested in keeping up with our data display advances, please consider grabbing from the source tree [sgi.com].
Also, please feel free to send us [mailto] your data display requirements AND wishes. Data display is a key area because of its importance in the development of serious scientific software.
-Dean
Re: JVMDI (Score:1)
JPDA provides the infrastructure needed to build end-user debugger applications. It includes Java Debug Interface (JDI) which allows you to do remote debugging, Java Debug Wire Protocol (JDWP) which defines the protocol used between the debugged process and the debugger application, and Java Virtual Machine Debugger Interface (JVMDI) which lets you hook up to the guts of JVM.
For more info, go to the JPDA Home Page [sun.com].
Re:Linkage (Score:1)
Journalism at work (Score:1)
Just a debugger/profiler? (Score:1)
I'm not sure why they are calling it an IDE. The web page states:
Implemented largely in Java, Jessie provides the portable and extensible framework that can be expanded into a full IDE. [emphasis mine]
What do they mean by "cross-platform"? (Score:1)
Howzbout Mac - ie. will it run under Mac OS (MRJ) and let you write Mac OS programs? (either Classic, Carbon, or Cocoa)?
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
Re:What do they mean by "cross-platform"? (Score:1)
Please enlighten me about Irix GCC issues (Score:1)
I do 99% of my work on Linux and all my Irix development machines come fully loaded, so I haven't stumbled over this problem.
If you give me the information, preferably without it ticking, I will take it up the chain and see what I can do. I aint promising nothin', but I *will* try.
-Dean
Re:Can "Free" or "Open Source" sofware be in Java (Score:2)
Re:Yeah right (Score:1)
Why do you think they are embracing Linux? Their machines are cool and when Linux runs natively and the GIMP goes 3D, they could fight the macs in High End Graphics (after getting whalloped by NT). Remember the Titanic!
Re:Where is the syntax highlighting? (Score:1)
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
That doesn't stop the existing binary licensees and even some source code licenses continuing to use their software. Similarly it does't stop anyone else supporting the language, or developing environments for it.
In other words, Java would be in the same situation as a every other language ever invented.
Re:Where is the syntax highlighting? (Score:1)
from NeXT... so I think I'll stick to good old VIM
Re:Some opinions (Score:1)
What would be nice (Score:1)
ok down to it
jessie is an IDE ? last time I looked it was a very nice debugger and performance tweaking tool!
what needs to be expanded well I write lots of different code and I wonder if you can have MULTIPLE windows of code this is a MUST in any IDE ! why do you think most system Admin open many xterms sure they could just use the console switching but being able to look @ lots of thinks @ once helps
UML ugly I know but how about actually designing software. Shocking I know but few of us have to sit down with a pen with a linux box while in windows the tools are there. I am sure that there is an open source UML tool somewhere but where ? and being in Java would help Jessie.
if its an IDE how about syntax checking and autocompletion.
and how about running a tool to produce documentation there are several javaDoc is good and I know their is an open one for C and C++ how about letting us produce decent documentation (a help browser would be nice could be a HTML help if using 1.2 but then that's one for the team)
these are ideas SO WHATS WRONG ?
lastly thank you to Bill and the team @ SGI who work on linux as aposed to just sell it fund them buy SGI next time I know I will.
Regards
john
a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
Re:Kicking the gift-horse in the mouth (Score:1)
SGI, now here I think they are doing a good thing. I dunno what the license on the stuff is, I haven't run it yet, but as long as it's appropriate, we shan't (shouldn't) object.
Complaints about SGI? Well, it's how you approach them, either as comments / criticisms / areas for improvement / complaints. There are several alternative ways of looking at it, including some positive ones.
Re:What would be nice (Score:1)
A better IDE (Score:1)
Re:somebody moderate this idiot down (Score:1)
Where is the syntax highlighting? (Score:1)
It looks pretty but can it match Xemacs? It doesn't look like it. Someone should draw up a list of required features for an IDE and send it to these guys (and all the other IDE makers out there). We need it all!
Re:Just a debugger/profiler? (Score:3)
its direction.
Re:Jessie? (Score:1)
Is Jessie named after Jessie Ventura, the Governor of Minnesota?
No. While it is true that most of the work on Jessie was done in Minnesota, the name is a variation on the code name of its predecessor, Nessie, denoting the switch to Java as the primary implementation language. Besides, his name is spelled "Jesse" and not "Jessie".
GNU IDE (Score:1)
I haven't looked at Jessie yet, but I'd be surprised if Jessie will be able to read automake's Makefile.am files.
The first outfit that figures out that there's a demand for an IDE that understands autoconf and automake should make a pile of money.
Here's a great stress test for all of these IDEs that have been showing up lately: feed them an automake-generated Makefile :-).
--
Re:Jessie tool linkage (Score:1)
-Dean
Jessie Download Link (Score:1)
Jessie Download [sgi.com]
Jessie project page [sgi.com]
SGI OSS project page [sgi.com]
Enjoy!
Re:Where is the syntax highlighting? (Score:4)
Also, please send us your required AND desired features list. If you would like to help make those features a reality, please check out the How to Contribute [sgi.com] section.
-Dean
Why not GPL? (Score:1)
hmmmm (Score:1)
The GUI was written with the java swing widgets, so I guess it would work under Windows too. All I really need is a good syntax highlightening tool, something that does perl, C/C++, Java, HTML, tcl/tk, JavaScript, and works the way I like it to. Maybe modify this thing to have these features :-)
Re:Why not GPL? (Score:1)
axolotl
STL? (Score:1)
Re:STL? (Score:1)
Perhaps what they mean is "porting, along with their compiler suite, to their Intel boxes, the 320's and 540's"?
Java != JavaScript (Score:1)
The actual sgi page quotes it as 'Implemented largely in Java,...' which sounds alot closer to the mark.
Just a case of mistaken reporting by someone who doesn't know the difference...
Old, resonably uninteresting news (Score:1)
Try Kdevelop (Score:2)
Too bad.. (Score:1)
Where to get Jessie (Score:1)