Comcast Says FCC Powerless to Stop P2P Blocking

Nanoboy writes "Even if the FCC finds that Comcast has violated its Internet Policy Statement, it's utterly powerless to do anything about it, according to a recent filing by the cable giant. Comcast argues that Congress has not given the FCC the authority to act, that the Internet Policy Statement doesn't give it the right to deal with the issue, and that any FCC action would violate the Administrative Procedures Act of 1946. '"The congressional policy and agency practice of relying on the marketplace instead of regulation to maximize consumer welfare has been proven by experience (including the Comcast customer experience) to be enormously successful," concludes Comcast VP David L. Cohen's thinly-veiled warning to the FCC, filed on March 11. "Bearing these facts in mind should obviate the need for the Commission to test its legal authority."'"

Re:Is there a lawyer in the house?

[explosivejared]

I'm no lawyer, but here's the wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] on the act in question. Seems to me new ground is being tread here, so I'm not sure how a court would rule. However, such hubris can't make things easier on Comcast. They'd have to be pretty sure to call out the FCC like this. I personally hope Comcast is wrong, but that is another matter.

Now I may be a mutated hyper chicken

[techpawn]

Comcast argues that Congress has not given the FCC the authority to act...

Then who gave the FCC authority in the first place to do anything?

Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is a United States government agency, created, directed, and empowered by Congressional statute (see 47 U.S.C. 151 and 47 U.S.C. 154), and with the majority of its commissioners appointed by the current president.
The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 as the successor to the Federal Radio Commission and is charged with regulating all non-Federal Government use of the radio spectrum (including radio and television broadcasting), and all interstate telecommunications (wire, satellite and cable) as well as all international communications that originate or terminate in the United States.

So it was congress who gave them the authority to act and then took it away with another act?

I Agree With Comcast

[superid]

"The congressional policy and agency practice of relying on the marketplace instead of regulation to maximize consumer welfare has been proven by experience (including the Comcast customer experience) to be enormously successful," - Cohen

I agree completely and will move my "customer experience" from Comcast to Verizon FioS ASAP.

Re:Is there a lawyer in the house?

[alexhard]

But that's complete bullshit, Comcast has been granted monopolies in the cable market, so they HAVE meddled with the free market (damn communists!). Government meddling is the reason that this problem even exists.

Re:Just how STUPID IS Comcast?

[j79zlr]

the 4mbps that you are "promised" I get 750KB/s download and 125KB/s upload

750 kB/s == 6 mbps. So you are getting more than you promised, will you be sending Comcast a thank you card?

Re:Just how STUPID IS Comcast?

[GweeDo]

"so that you don't ever get the 4mbps that you are "promised" I get 750KB/s download and 125KB/s upload"

You do know that 750KBps is 5.859375 Mbps right?

Re:Just how STUPID IS Comcast?

[TubeSteak]

And P2P is horribly disruptive, a single user can easily transmit 20 GB of data in a day.

Sure, if they max out 2Mbps of upload bandwidth for 24 hours straight.
What *Comcast/Verizon/AT&T connection do you have that does a steady 2Mbps up?

Last I checked, non-business connections were either 384 kbps or 768 kbps, which is about 4GB & 8GB per day respectively. I limit this discussion to Comcast/Verizon/AT&T because those are usually the only options for the vast majority of people in the USA.

So who are these non-business/non-FIOS users transmitting 20 GB per day?

http://www.google.com/search?q=20+GB+per+day+in+Kbps [google.com]
http://www.google.com/search?q=384+kbps+in+GB+per+day [google.com]
http://www.google.com/search?q=768+kbps+in+GB+per+day [google.com]

*non-business & non-fiber since comcast can't exactly blame fiber users for running up their bandwidth bill.

Re:Call the *AA?

[isaac]

Incorrect.

[snip]

In other words Comcast's denial of common carrier status is a big mistake, because they are opening themselves to many, many lawsuits because their lines were used (by the customers) to conduct illegal activities.

Christ, this is 100% wrong. ISPs in the USA ARE NOT COMMON CARRIERS!

Please stop propagating this myth!

ISP immunity for subscriber traffic/content comes from Section 230 CDA (yep, that CDA) and the safe-harbor provisions of the DMCA. They don't need or want common carrier status.

The FCC explicitly classified cable (in 2002) and DSL (in 2005) ISPs as "information services" rather than "telecommunications services" in order to remove any doubt that they were common carriers.

-Isaac

Re:Call the *AA?

[cube135]

True, but the safe harbor provision states that a provider is a safe harbor if:

the transmission, routing, provision of connections, or storage is carried out through an automatic technical process without selection of the material by the service provider;

Comcast is selectively blocking certain methods. IANAL, but I think this qualifies as breaking this provision of the act.

Re:Just how STUPID IS Comcast?

[bensode]

Let me be the first to say F*CK Comcast. I moved to southern PA recently only to get gouged with a $70 monthly internet bill. I don't have the option to switch to DSL/FIOS so my only other option is dial-up. No thank you. It's funny my neighbors (a lot of them) have a $24.99 monthly Comcast bill. The local ISP just before I moved in (SusCom) was bought out by Comcast http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6279636.html [multichannel.com] and they get grandfathered into the same price. Any "new" service REQUIRES cable TV + $50 a month internet, totaling $70 a month. I'm an avid DirectTV subscriber because the Comcast cable tv service is absolutely terrible here. So I have to pay for cable tv, internet and DirectTV.

You know what Comcast told me when I complained about the price, lack of options and their crappy service? "Move". Isn't that wonderful customer service ...

Re:Call the *AA?

[gclef]

Nice try. The text you quoted only prohibits "selection of the material" (eg, the web page, email, etc) by Comcast. It says nothing about method by which it's transmitted.

Going only by that provision, if Comcast were selectively blocking certain torrents that would be a problem. Blanket blocking of the torrent protocol overall is totally fine.

Re:Common Carrier. Solved.

[qeveren]

Common carrier status doesn't apply to them, already. People above have already commented on this.

Re:Comcast

[FredThompson]

So...your city created their own santioned monopoly and that means you advocate the theft of private property by "the people." Are you SURE the prices and service are better or do you only see part of the cost? Price and service improve for the customer when there is competition in a free market, not when a government creates a monopoly. Most likely your city is hiding some of the cost in taxation or they aren't including investment for the future. Advocating theft of private property by "the people" is almost always the worst option. Innovation comes from incentive to acquire through achievement. That requires private property rights.

Re:Comcast

[Actually, I do RTFA]

1)Start new ISP that does not filter

1a) Since you don't own all the fiber in between most computers, still send the data over Comcast or ATT backbone lines, and have filtering applied above you.

Re:What bullshit

[mikael_j]

You can't really compare the US to the European Union since there is a lot more diversity within the EU than there is within the US, the countries in the EU are independent countries (a whole bunch of them recently agreed to share a common currency but some (like us Swedes) have opted out of that). If you look at the page at Ars that was linked to the average speed here in Sweden is 18.2 Mbps with The Netherlands at 21.7 Mbps being the only other european nation to beat us, but if you average our connections out with those in Greece (1.0 Mbps) and the UK (2.6 Mbps) then of course we're gonna seem backwards. And now two of our largest ISPs are about to roll out VDSL2 so hopefully us DSL users will no longer be limited to 24 Mbps ADSL2+ (or hacked-up 28 Mbps ADSL2+ through TDC Song's network).

/Mikael

Re:I Agree With Comcast

[compro01]

In many areas, the ILEC (Incumbent Local Exchange Carrier, the company that owns the physical lines) is required to lease out said lines to any CLEC (Competitive Local Exchange Carrier, a company that provides service over said lines, but leases them rather than owns them) who wishes to provide services (usually DSL) over them.

In most of those same areas, phone lines without phone service (called "dry" lines) are available, allowing DSL service without having phone service.

Apparently no such arrangement exists in your area.

Though I have no idea why they decided on those terminologies.

Enough! I just cancelled after reading this

[ScottFree2600]

My Comcast internet has been out for a month anyway, and last time I tried to get it fixed I almost hurt someone because they pissed me off so badly. I have a tough time believing that this is the most effective way to get a government regulator "off your back", even a corrupt, incompetent one like the FCC. I just showed them how the 'free market' works. They didn't even try to save the account. I've been paying $190 a month for 1 DVR and internet, and it goes up every month it seems. Now to get rid of the TV. I already have DSL from Speakeasy (Covad). It's not as fast, but it's never gone down and they're pretty responsive and well run. The FCC needs to be taken apart. They are worse than useless!