Does Comcast Hate Firefox? 676
destinyland writes "Comcast is the largest ISP in America. And they're requiring Internet Explorer for installations — even if you're using a Mac. The Comcast homepage even specifies that the page is optimized for IE 5.5 (which was released in 2000), and 'is not optimized for Firefox browsers and Macs.' With 13 million subscribers, you'd think they could spring for a web developer who could handle multiple browsers. (From the last line of the article: 'I'm afraid to ask how Comcast handles Linux...')"
My experience (Score:5, Interesting)
They Don't (Score:5, Interesting)
They also offer no support. If you call with a trouble report you'd better pretend you are using a Windows machine when they give you their step by step connection test instructions. If they say "click Start -> Control Panel" and you say "I have neither", the problem is obviously on your end.
This is also true if you have only Macs and Linux, which I did at both my home and my studio when I first set those up. Luckily the guy who handled them had his Windows laptop.
By the way, Wild Blue satellite, same thing. They have independent installers, but Wild Blue tech support can't help them if they run into a problem on and only Linux machines are on the customer's end.
comcast will soon love FF, opera, konq, etc. (Score:2, Interesting)
Comcast support (Score:5, Interesting)
It then took another 12 minutes to explain that the OS of my choice has nothing to do with a modem that is failed. I was finally booted to a real technician after asking for a MAC address reassignment (tip: start using tech words and asking for things you can't actually do over the phone) I was able to get someone who at least understood what happened and send out a new modem.
What does this have to do with the topic? Well, I was asked to check a page at Comcast for terms, during the time I had told the "tech" that my cable was out, as they flat out said they would not support any issues with Firefox, especially under Linux, neither of which had anything to do with the problem.
Next time, I'll tell them I'm in BeOS or V2.
Could be worse (Score:3, Interesting)
Fortunately, for now the FCC still requires them to allow you to use other ISPs (if you pay more, but it's worth it). No telling how long that will last, though.
Re:My experience (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know if it is an issue anymore, but I always made sure that I told the company I did not have a USB port. They still came in and plugged a USB Only, Windows only modem in. After that, I make sure the computer does not have any working USB ports so that when it doesn't work, they are forced to read the ticket, then go back and grab a modem with an ethernet port that can be installed on a linux system or a router.
Re:My experience (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:More likely... (Score:2, Interesting)
If you have not figured it out by now (you appear to be a windows user, so I will write it real slow), I worked there during the buyout.
Re:They don't hate Firefox (Score:2, Interesting)
Ah, but it is an issue. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:They don't hate Firefox (Score:5, Interesting)
This is nothing new (Score:3, Interesting)
The same thing happened with Dragon Naturally Speaking, in the last version before MS bought it and built it into Word. Same checking and forced install, same rationale, same story from tech support, except we finally got one guy to admit it would work with another browser after we told him we'd already done it.
We had Adelphia for telecom at the time. They also force installed IE with their software. We just didn't install their software since it was nothing but IE, some help files, some self-promotion, and AOL and Earthlink install programs. The important stuff, ports and s4erver names and whatnot, were in the instructions, and Opera read those off the CD just dandy. Whenever we called for tech support they asked if we had IE. We said no, we had Opera. They said they didn't support that. We said we weren't asking them to support the browser, we wanted them to fix the problem with the line or network, and in fact I forbid them to attempt to provide "support" for anything from the wall plug in because I didn't trust them to leave my system in the state I wanted it.
Kickbacks. That's what it comes down to. Probably not direct monetary kickbacks, but something like reduced support charges for their own Windows Server software as long as they standardized their network by having everyone use one "standard" browser. Then again, this was Adelphia, so it might well have been payola.
Re:They don't hate Firefox (Score:2, Interesting)
Turns out we ran over a bit of the ground wire with the lawnmower. Smart fella, him.
Re:They don't hate Firefox (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:My experience (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:My experience (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a counter-story to this I found rather funny. One time when I was having a problem with my modem, I called in to tech support. As usual, they asked what OS I was running. When I responded "FreeBSD," rather than them saying it wasn't supported and giving me the runaround, the tech said "Oh, well I'm not going to be able to help you then; let me transfer you to level 2." The level 2 guys assumed I knew how to ping and other such things, so it took about 10 minutes to fix everything. Ah, if only every call went that easily... :)
Re:More likely... (Score:3, Interesting)
Businesses like ComCast will eventually die off. The world of Microsoft is a world that the sun is soon to set on; companies that do not see this coming will get left behind... including Comcast and many other places that seem to think that antiquated, non-standards compliant, user-restricting technology is what's good for this world. If Comcast weren't the only provider of 8 Mbit access in my area, I wouldn't use them, that is for sure: I would use something else. But they are the only broadband option here (no DSL, either), and so I am kinda stuck (and no, I am not using dialup. I wouldn't even think of it).
As for what they do about Linux? I tell them that I have Windows. I lie my ass off to them. Why? If I tell them that I have a Linux router, a FreeBSD server, and four Linux workstations, they assume that the problem is with me. If I am calling because the modem has block sync, and is connected just fine, and that I can ping everything up to their gateway, which is (maybe) responding to one ping packet every *minute* or so, they still say "Well, it must be your problem." They know *nothing* about networking, which is something that you would think would be required for someone that, well, supports a network.
On the other hand, if I call back and tell them that I have Windows and say "I can't get online," they seem to know what to do with that. My theory? They just can't handle it when people smarter than them call in. Most technical support places can't.
Re:My experience (Score:2, Interesting)
I have even been too busy to sit with the equipment of some occasions and been driving at the time. You just work your way through the flow chart until you get to the point where they say 'its broken and needs to be replaced here are the RMA details' or 'it appears there is a fault on the line, I will get that reset for you'. I thought everyone did it! or at least those of us with a reasonable amount of knowledge about these darned computer type thingies. Just remember your pauses and stock phrases 'ok done that, no change' etc.
It must be years since I actually got through to someone straight away that actually knew anything about the system they were supporting.
Just my 2 pence
Re:Why do people even install anything? (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously, hire people in India already, the Comcast techs are even worse.
Browser-based install (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:More likely... (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft is a friendly and well meaning company (even to F/OSS) compared to AT&T. Companies like Comcast bought up all the cable startups across the country during the fiber boom of 2000 and kept the fiber dark, so that the only broadband available to them would be Comcast when it came around- this kept many large areas in narrow-band for years (those of you from the Far Western Suburbs of Chicago (for instance) would remember this.
The CEO of AT&T publically bragged about being able to get any law he wanted changed or created by congress, which he made out to be in his pocket. The Chairman of Microsoft (Bill Gates), on the other hand, is one of the world's greatest philanthropists. The last time he spoke to congress, it was about improving our nation's schools.
The point is- the rivalry between F/OSS and Microsoft is (believe it or not) a friendly rivalry with little damage and few hostages. Ubuntu's latest window manager is a direct send-off to Vista. We all love and hate Microsoft. The rivalry between The People and AT&T is truly the epic battle of Good Vs. Evil.
If you're so worried about Comcast requiring IE to install, why don't you use Opera or Firefox and simply mask as IE? This sort of LAZY (not evil-- cheap. lazy.) development was long considered by Opera ASA and the Mozilla Foundation. This is why Masking is available.
Having *used* Comcast... (Score:2, Interesting)
Comcast themselves don't support anything but MS Windows because most of the time, the people coming to install the broadband stuff are contractors who aren't paid to know two or three different operating systems. Instead, they are trained to know one (if that), and that is MS Windows, preferably Win2k or WinXP. I think that's the biggest reason for the "Windows only" support. Trying to support more than one operating system increases the complexity of the support structure they would have to maintain, and since most of the users are using Windows (and those that aren't are probably going to know what they're doing anyway), it's the most cost-effective approach.
That said, a Windows system is only necessary for that initial configuration, where the cable modem is registered with the local network. After that, they couldn't really care less what one does on their "LAN side" of the modem. If problems arise, though, you're on your own, unless you have a Windows system you can use for walking through the troubleshooting steps with Support.
For example, I have several computers on my LAN. Comcast (and now Earthlink) doesn't care. If I were to share my network with my neighbors and war drivers, I'm sure they'd have something to say, but as long as it's my own personal use, they don't say a word.
I used my kids' WinXP system for doing the initial configuration. Since then, I have had systems running Solaris, Linux, MacOS X, and several flavors of MS Windows.
Re:More likely... (Score:2, Interesting)
Now that Microsoft has discontinued IE for the Mac, what's to be done?
If people hate each other... (Score:3, Interesting)
I changed ISPs because my decent one was swallowed up by TELUS which royally messed up my nice little setup--they warned me that it would happen, but didn't say exactly what would happen or exactly when.
I went with "basic small business service" from a company called Radiant--it is the same kind of DSL, largely riding on the same TELUS networks, but Radiant does the admin. I get multiple fixed IPs, no ridiculous bandwidth caps, and tech support is staffed with actual techs. My plan is basic--CONNECTIVITY ONLY. They do not provide me with email addresses, do not host domains, don't block ports or provide firewalls or proxies or anything on their end--they offer those services with other more expensive packages.
One thing they DO regualrly do is scan their entire network and have tripwire-like software to alert them to problems. Within minutes they can find open mail relays, worm-infested IIS servers and so on--at which point ALL traffic involving the affected MAC address is blocked until theproblem is resolved. This is a very nice policy for professional services compared to the block-and-filter-by-default policy of residential/consumer service.
In any case I now have the freedom to establish my OWN firewall policies, host my OWN email and webservers, set up MY OWN VPN and whatever else--so I don't have to rely on the ISP to make sure those things are online and properly configured, whether it is filtering false-positive-SPAM without telling me, or imposing file attachment and mailbox size restrictions I don't like. I can use apache with mod-perl and whatever database and Perl or PHP scripting to my hearts content, all with my ISPs blessing, because if my server grinds to a halt it really only affects me.
I love the idea of "connectivity only" service and very few ISPs seem willing to offer it. At the consumer/residential level, there should be that kind of service too, with just a single DHCP address supplied behind a simple NAT firewall so a person can just plug and go. Really who needs an email address from their ISP nowadays anyways, when everybody has an email address through work, or gmail, or hotmail or yahoo already? The less they have to offer, the lower the cost for the same or better reliability and bandwidth (I pay almost the same for my service as some others in the US pay for crappy Comcast like service). How many people actually USE their ISP's web pages and CDs and whatnot? Even my retired parents almost exclusively use their hotmail accounts because, even as relative beginners on computers, they realise that they can't be bothered with the pain of an email address that cannot move between ISPs. I think a LOT of people would go for under-$20/month 2.5Mb/s DSL "connectivity only".
Re:More likely... (Score:2, Interesting)
>server, and four Linux workstations, they assume that the problem is with me. If I am calling because the modem has block sync, and is connected just
>fine, and that I can ping everything up to their gateway, which is (maybe) responding to one ping packet every *minute* or so, they still say "Well, it
>must be your problem." They know *nothing* about networking, which is something that you would think would be required for someone that, well, supports
>a network.
When I had service from this godforsaken company, I lied my ass off too. At that point, they were trying to tell me that I couldn't use a router because it was against the EULA or something. They were trying to charge you for every access device that touched their network. Ridiculous, cuz it's just bits to them. Every time I called Technical Support, I had to remove my router, boot into Windows and troubleshoot the problem like I was a complete idiot. If I mentioned pinging or gateways, the person on the other end got flustered.
Once, a slightly clued tech support guy was convinced that I had a router, to which I kept insisting that I had no idea what he was talking about. I had just removed my router 2 minutes before. He was trying to imply that I was stealing service from the company. I just kept playing dumb and had him fix the problem at hand. Then I hooked my router back up. I am pretty sure they stopped trying to enforce their stupid "no router" rule, but still, if you ever need tech support, first remove it, because the complexity will just destroy their ability to troubleshoot anything.
manual registration (Score:1, Interesting)
You have to call them and get a tech to do it manually on their end. Their techs suck, quite frankly, and some just give you the, "we don't support Linux" line, but thus far, I've always, eventually, ran into a reasonable person who did it for me.
Given the plethora of cross platform/cross browser options, it is really silly for them to use Windows/IE only software. YES, I know, 90%+ market share - but what about next gen consoles with internet access? What about future (or current) set-top boxes with some brains and an ethernet port? What about PDAs and cell-fones?
Can these companies really be THAT shortsighted?
Why can't I use Opera on my palmtop computer to register my cable modem with Comcast? Idiots. This is why we have standards. Anything at all that comes down the pike, that adheres to the many internet "standards" even partially, should be able to register their damn service without any finger-lifting on their end.