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Education Microsoft The Almighty Buck

New Zealand Rejects Office For Macs 317

An anonymous reader writes "The New Zealand Ministry of Education has declined to renew a licensing deal for MS Office on 25,000 Macintosh computers in the country's schools. The Education Minister has suggested that schools use the free alternative NeoOffice. The article quotes a school principal who pointed out that the NeoOffice website warns users to expect problems and bugs: 'That's not the sort of software we should be expecting kids in New Zealand to be using.'" Schools are free to buy their own copies of Office. A blog on the New Zealand Herald site argues that the Ministry should have paid Microsoft this time, but not renewed the deal and instead developed a transition plan to open source.
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New Zealand Rejects Office For Macs

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  • How much? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by igny ( 716218 ) on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @08:12AM (#19307491) Homepage Journal
    How much do they save, and is there a way to invest some of this money into further development of NeoOffice?
  • They exaggerate (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bhima ( 46039 ) <(Bhima.Pandava) (at) (gmail.com)> on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @08:21AM (#19307555) Journal
    I haven't been to the NeoOffice website in a very long time, since I started to use just plain Open Office. But... the last time I was there the website had the least friendly, over the top disclaimers found any on the web, save Microsoft's "Get the Facts" FUD page.

    OK so the NeoOffice developers have issues with their social skills, does this have much to do with the feature set and bugs of NeoOffice as compared with Open Office, Microsoft Office, or iWork?

    Personally I think all three are way overkill for students writing papers. Hell, I don't think I've ever used more than 10 or 20% of MS Office's features and I use it work nearly every day and have for over 10 years. Is there an Open Source project like Apple's 'Pages'? This, I think, would be closer to useful and a lot more fun.
  • by malsdavis ( 542216 ) on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @08:23AM (#19307575)
    If the experiences from U.K. councils and schools looking to ditch Office and Windows is anything to go by, Microsoft will probably return to the New Zealand government with an even better offer!

    Microsoft are terrified of the thought of educational and public authorities ditching MS products as they know that successful operation of non-MS products in these sort of institutions will lead others - and ultimately corporations (their biggest market) - to consider alternatives.

    Several U.K. local councils and schools pay virtually nothing for MS products to prevent them trialling Linux.

  • by niiler ( 716140 ) on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @08:26AM (#19307603) Journal
    And yet in actual practice, we have yet to encounter said bugs where I work. NeoOffice works just fine on the couple of Macs we have, thank you and should be quite a bit more than what 99.9% of students need. In practice when I used to be stuck on Windows, MS Office crashed if you removed the floppy disk before closing the document, or if you inserted pictures into nested tables, etc. Please don't get me started on Micro -Blue Screen of Death-Soft's stability issues. NeoOffice is an excellent alternative for the under-supported MacOS environment.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @08:46AM (#19307755)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by david.emery ( 127135 ) on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @08:52AM (#19307789)
    Several times recently I've been handed a PowerPoint file (from a Windows user) with graphics in it, that either fail to render, or worse that crash Microsoft PowerPoint. The files open just fine in NeoOffice... I've also used an old version of Keynote (1.1) to work around Microsoft PowerPoint bugs opening PowerPooint presentations...

              dave
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @09:01AM (#19307875)
    If you're trying to suggest BSODs are a thing of the past, I have just two things to say:

    PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA
    IRQ_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL
  • Re:How much? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Domstersch ( 737775 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .scinimod.> on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @09:17AM (#19307977) Homepage
    It's unclear how much money they save. The total licensing deals the government has made with Microsoft are speculated to be worth about NZ$100 million (US$72m) over the next ten years. But the Maharey, the Minister of Education, said the dispute was regarding NZ$2.7m worth of Microsoft Office licenses that would not (otherwise) be used (because the macs in question aren't currently using Office) but which Microsoft insisted the Ministry pay for.

    So, we know they're saving more than $2.7m and less than $100m, but we're not told exactly how much.

    By the way, macs aren't extensively used outside of primary (roughly, elementary schools) and intermediate (school years 7-8) in New Zealand. Every high school I can think of (many) have one or two macs at most, and classes full of PCs. So, to my mind, Le Sueur is wrong, and NeoOffice _is_ the sort of software we can expect kids to use. It's unreasonable to claim five to twelve year olds have a need for (supposedly) superior, high-class spreadsheets, databases and business presentations.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @09:55AM (#19308411)
    I think "unstable" is meant not in the sense of "likely to crash", but in the sense of "likely to change" rapidly and drastically with updates. Of course, there is some correlation: the rapid rate of updates means that not all of them are very well tested, decreasing the "stability" of the system in the conventional sense.

    I run Debian testing/unstable, and it's very stable in the sense of seldom crashing, but it's also very unstable in that you never know exactly what's going to happen when you type "apt-get upgrade", or just what seemingly unrelated packages you're going to have to install or uninstall to install some fancy new program through apt. (I suppose many people do understand these processes better than me; I'm not a Debian expert, just a user.)

    This can be frustrating at times. As was said on bash.org: <jamesd> "... being a Linux user is sort of like living in a house inhabited by a large family of carpenters and architects. Every morning when you wake up, the house is a little different. Maybe there is a new turret, or some walls have moved. Or perhaps someone has temporarily removed the floor under your bed." [bash.org]
  • by xirtam_work ( 560625 ) on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @10:36AM (#19308959)
    The New Zealand Government is going to save a bucket load of cash by using Neo Office instead of Microsoft Office. Plus they've got peace of mind that not going to get stung for going over their licences or be reported for piracy, etc.

    Why not donate a significant amount to the Neo Office project each year to encourage development and/or place a bounty on features that they'd like to see included or fixed.

    If every district/county/state/country did something like that we'd have the best of breed open source software in the world available for everyone to use for free.

    Even though some software is free as is beer, the reason for this is so that it can truely be free as in freedom. Free as in beer doesn't stop you contributing back whatever you can to benefit everyone.

    I'm no tree-hugging GPL/GNU beardy freak, but I do appriecate the efforts these guys have made for the Mac Platform and have been thinking about donating myself - even though I only downloaded and used it once to open a single document.
  • by misanthrope101 ( 253915 ) on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @11:11AM (#19309421)
    Is that it doesn't (as far as I know) replicate my single favorite feature of OpenOffice. With OpenOffice, I can copy/paste text from a webpage into it, and the hyperlinks will still be intact. Print-to-pdf, even in OS X, doesn't send the hyperlink information, so that's no option--OpenOffice is the only solution I've found. I can save the page, but the ability to copy/paste the sections I want and keep the links intact, and then export to PDF, is simply awesome, and is the "killer feature" of OpenOffice for me. If I just want to write a document, I'll use Abiword or LaTeX.

    When I copy/paste into Neooffice, I get just the plain text--no links are preserved. I looked through the options to try to figure it out, to no avail. Haven't opened up NeoOffice since then. If anyone knows a way to fix that problem, please tell me. You can even throw in some gratuitous "lame noob" insults if it makes you feel better.

    On a side note, I really wish someone smarter than me (is that a big enough labor pool for you?) would write a print-to-pdf type program that keeps the hyperlinks intact. I don't know what mojo OpenOffice uses to preserve the hyperlinks from text copied to the clipboard, but there is no doubt a way to make a one-trick application that prints a section of html to pdf while keeping the hyperlinks intact. Yes, I'd pay for it. Any ideas?

  • I can't rule out that Windows prints a meaningless complaint about IRQ levels when the real cause is a bug somewhere else.

    You know, hardware that utterly fails under one operating system can work flawlessly under another. They have different drivers. In almost all cases, windows drivers are binary blobs that are developed by the device manufacturer or someone they have retained under contract to do so for them. Most Linux drivers are reverse engineered or developed from specs and are open source drivers which come with the kernel.

    In practice, either one might be more reliable; if the Linux driver isn't very good, which is often the case (it can be hard to write a good, stable driver without specs) then it might not work under Linux properly, but be fine under Windows. If the Windows driver is a pile of crap, it might work better under Linux.

    For example, my last desktop system was an Athlon XP 2500+ with a Radeon 9600XT. The system would bluescreen on boot if I had the catalyst control center installed. But once I booted up in safe mode and removed CCC, the driver worked "fine" (it still sucked - we're talking about ATI here. but no bluescreens.) Some people just can't write a fucking driver.

  • by penrodyn ( 927177 ) on Tuesday May 29, 2007 @12:31PM (#19310441)
    Quite right, those books and chairs and desks they also buy, they're just subsidizing greedy book sellers and furniture makers. I say make the kids learn how to make and write the books for them themselves. In the wood shop they can make the furniture. As for the tools they'll use, make them build the tools in the metal shop. As for the building, make the kids build their own class rooms, after all it's only greedy building firms that are getting rich on the backs of our own kids! Once they leave school they'll be fully equipped to work in the modern age, oops I mean the middle age.

    My kids however, will go to a school where they will use the most up to date tools. I will encourage the school to actually buy books so they don't have to waste time making them and show by example well written books so they can aspire to emulate or improve on them. Secondly I want my kids to learn something like Office and learn it well. It's all very well learning 'concepts' but I also believe in learning some hard-core skills too (Its like reading and writing, why learn how to read and write when all that is needed is to know the 'concept' of reading and writing?!). Once they've learn't Office they can learn pretty much any office like tools. For those who leave school early and go for a job (yes people have to work), Office on their resume will do fine, for those who want to continue at school, they can afford to explore other 'office' like solutions.

    We must learn to distinguish between training and education. Both are required but today there is too much emphasis on education so that, for example, when I get students for a summer job, they're next to worthless because they can't actually do anything useful.

    Witness the problems parents are having with the new Discovery Math syllabus in the US. Better informed parents are having to send their students out to private tuition because discovery math only teaches concepts. The kids can barely do simple arithmetic when they leave. There must be an element of training in every course.

    Ok, now I'm off my white horse.

Ya'll hear about the geometer who went to the beach to catch some rays and became a tangent ?

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