Testosterone Tumbling in American Males

An anonymous reader writes "Yahoo is running a story about a study that concludes that testosterone levels are falling across all age groups among American men. It says 'The testosterone-fueled American male may be losing his punch'" I leave it to you all to draw your conclusions about this, but I still wonder what my hours of laptop-fu does to me.

Obvious Reson

[turgid]

What whith the ubiquity of pr0n, avaliable readily for free and without embarrassment on the Intarweb Tubes, the testosterone no longer has a chance to build up in the male body.

Can I have a PhD please?

lack of excercise and obesity

[iggymanz]

testosterone drops in a body that doesn't excercise (true for male and for the much smaller amount the female has), it drops in an obese body and moreover body fat produces a female-hormone like steroid

Re:I for one....

[tloh]

On a less lame note, does this mean young geeks are dealing with less of the aggressive bully types? And on a slightly more serious note still, I wonder if any study has been done on the role of male sex hormones in the sociobology of humans. It is a generally acknowledge (though AFAIK not yet understood) fact that women who live in the same dwelling eventually develop synchronized menstrual periods. But with regard to males, I can only think of examples in the animal kingdom where territorial males would deposit their own scent to "mark their territory"...... I'm sure someone else can come up with a better joke on that note than I could.

Simple evolution

[iamacat]

If you fight you are put in jail, if you ask someone out at work you are fired and sued, if you are perceived to be an insensitive clod who wants to sit in a bar rather than wash dishes, you are unlikely to get married or have an offspring - thanks also to birth control/abortion. The evolution is selecting against "manly men". Maybe it's time for the society to wake up and move away from extremes.

Re:I for one....

[WallaceAndGromit]

Or... could it be related to the increasing use of growth hormones in our food supply (for example female growth hormones [wikipedia.org]
used to increase milk production in cattle)?

Re:I for one....

[Perp Atuitie]

Not a study, but some interesting stories about testosterone and the lack of it as told by those who lived through some heavy changes. A This American Life radio broadcast you can listen to here. [thislife.org]

Re:Estrogen in the water?

[NFN_NLN]

Scientists have discovered a wide range of other drugs in our drinking water, from pain killers to... antidepressants.

I know I always feel better after a tall glass of water. I guess that explains it :).

Re:Diabetes

[Thangodin]

Michael Jackson may be a reference point. His voice never changed, he never developed secondary attributes, and his baby had to be fertilized artificially, so there was some medical intervention at work there. Plastic surgery was probably not the first elective surgery he went through. I suspect that this is the root of most of his psychological problems. That's why I tend to give the guy a pass for a lot of his weirdness--the decision would have been forced on him by his father.

Re:Logical conclusion

[eno2001]

My theory on homosexuality is that it is a natural population control mechanism when an environment begins to exceed it's carrying capacity. I would suggest that is real study were done, you'd find less homosexuality in environments where there are plenty of resources and a small population. Contrary to that, I think you'd find abundant homosexuality in ares where resources are scarce and overpopulation is a problem. (Note: I'm not talking about "out" homosexuality, because cultural pressures are often contrary to natural and normal behavior) Of course I believe in a firm biological basis for sexual preference. I also believe that there are two kinds of sexual preference, which most people tend to not want to think about. I think that the "bi" population of married women who occasionally have "lesbian" encounters is a perfect illustration. I put the "lesbian" in quotesd because these women are not lesbians as they don't have any romantic interest in women at all. They might like their female sex partners a lot. They might even go as far as saying that they love them. But they won't leave their husbands for these women. Therefore this behavior is a completely different thing when compared with real lesbians who truly have no romantic+sexual interest in men. But, to add more complexity to the mix, take the segment of the true lesbian population who DO have a sexual, but non-romantic interest in men. Typically this sort of relationship is sadistic in nature and part of the BD/SM culture. These lesbians might want to be involved with a submissive man's wife in both a sexual and romantic nature. They might also want to submit the male member of this threesome to homosexual acts. In this instance the lesbian has no true interest in the male at all other than to humiliate him. Another segment of the population are the "straight" men who get involved in secret sexual relationships with other men. One or both men might strongly assert that they are "straight" and excuse the homosexual interaction as just "horsing around". If you look at it from the perspective of pure sexuality, these men are interacting in homosexual activity which implies that they are homosexual regardless of what they may say. If you look at it from the romantic+sexual perspective, these men have no desire or longing to have a romantic relationship at all. From that perspective, they are "straight". All of this illustrates that human beings all fall somewhere on a continuum of sexual identity. All societies put too much focus on the sexual behavior as being intertwined with romance. The way I see it:

1. You have sex for pleasure which can be had in any combination of genders, any number of participants, any marital status and has no romantic value whatsoever.
2. You have sex as a symbol of romantic love, which can also apply to any combination of genders, participants and marital status, however it most traditionally is between two people of the same or opposite sexes.
3. You have sex as a "quick fix" anitdote for boredom, which can occasionally be same sex gratification with a huge guilt complex to follow if you confuse sex with romantic intention
4. You have "handshake sex" which is simply quick sex with no strings attached. A fairly difficult kind of sex to truly engage in as most people apply the strings no matter what they say on the surface
5. You have minimal sex romance where the involved partners love each other on a higher romantic plane and may or may not indulge in sex, but may very well be same or opposite sex partners (This is typically the type of relationship that is headed for marriage)
6. You have maximal sex romance where the involved partners are extremely romantic and sexual in nature, may be of the same or opposite sex and they engage in a variety of sexual and romanti endeavors together (polyamory, swingers, open marriage, etc...)

Most people don't like this sort of complexity and shy away from it, but I firmly believe it's inescapable and has a true bilogical function in terms of a self-regulating environment. We are merely cogs in the machinations of the sexual realm. With that view, I say that anything goes, and you should just go with the flow...

Then again...

[Travoltus]

higher testosterone levels, going by your admission, also led to people dying. I was witness to a kid being bullied and knocked down in a school fight and he cracked his head on the concrete ground. He spent days in the hospital and came back to school with his head all mummified. Others have died in that situation. The lawsuits that come of that are spectacular - and in case you're grumbling about lawyers right about now, well now, someone has to pay those medical bills, and it might as well be the testosterone-poisoned bully who, in this case, had knocked the other kid down. Of course, you'd say the kid who got knocked down deserved it because he was weak, or that his head injury is his problem, and no one else's. That's fine and well - he'd typically come back with a knife, a bat or even a gun, and even the score. See: Columbine. Inner city schools are plagued with that behavior. That's why the so-called "pussification" is going on.

When you take this he-man testosterone rah rah rah bullshit to the leaders-of-our-nation level, you get the threat of nuclear war. Or Bush. Of course you would say nuclear war is so 1960s. Tell that to the people who lived back then. Also do consider moving out of New York, and soon - that's target numeral uno for some terrorist with a suitcase nuke. Some testosterone poisoned man is absolutely positively going to try to blow that city up over a *certain* religious dispute we're all familiar with.

So what'll it be? Pussification, or skyrocketing crime and/or mass annihilation?

Re:Simple evolution

[bmajik]

Maybe it's time for the society to wake up and move away from extremes.

I think that's exactly what's happening. I think that over the last 1000 years Western Society has moved away from the model of "women as property of the most violent male" and "rape to procreate", and that these extremes are best left behind.

I don't think that's what you meant.

The selection criteria of today are clearly different than they were in the recent past. Women have some basic right-of-refusal and thus the selectivity criteria is no longer "he killed the most bears" or "he fought off the most other cavemen before raping me". It's a bit more like "he has the most money", "he went to the best school", "he got me the most drunk" -- whatever.

Additionally, men with normally ineligible genetic material can still procreate via IVF and other assisted conception procedures. In unaltered evolution, aggressive potent men would continue to dominate the genepool, but that's not what is happening, and so it is unsurprising that these traits are becoming irrelevant.

In 200 years unassisted procreation will be rare, which will help people build the kind of society that Aldous Huxley and others wrote about.

Re:Logical conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Since evolution is a continuous, not discrete, process, the degeneration of Y will not lead to the disappearance of sex chromosomes. It might sound a little surprising, but is actually well-founded.

Imagine that Y degenerates to the point at which the only meaningful (non-intron) sequence on it is the SRY - Sex-determining Region of Y. SRY is the primary determinant of human gender, the testicles are actually all caused by SRY. At this point, any further degeneration will create females incapable of procreating, so the "SRY-less" trait will not propagate.

Therefore, SRY will be preserved by pure natural selection. At some point, the degenerate heterochromosome will be included into some autosome, which will therefore become the new sex chromosome. That is actually happening sometimes with other species.

Re:Obvious Reson

[nebosuke]

Ejaculation converts testosterone in to dihydrotestosterone, which, coincidentally, is one cause of male pattern baldness.

In short, over-spanking the monkey will lead to lower levels of testosterone by converting it into DHT, and perhaps leave you bald to boot.

Re:Diabetes

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this is Slashdot, but stop making things up :)

Michael Jackson has gone through puberty - most of the plastic surgery occurred post-Thriller. Take a look at pictures from around that time, and notice the difference.
He can also grow facial hair, his voice HAS changed, and he has developed the musculature etc. typical of a male post-puberty.

The baby thing has more to do with his overall weirdness - he only wanted a surrogate, he didn't want a wife. (The marriage to Lisa Marie Presley was more likely to have been one of those typical Scientology stunts they do occasionally to make it seem their wacko celebrities approach normal).

Wait a second wait a second

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

USA what? Theres something fishy going on here. Whats this? [xinhuanet.com]

BEIJING, Oct. 28 (Xinhua) -- More than half of Chinese middle-aged men show symptoms of depression, irascibility, aching joints, excessive sweating as well as a fading interest in sex because of a lack of testosterone, a recent health survey suggested.

Are testosterone salesmen shilling the world now? I call shenanigans...

Re:Ditto, lol!

[flyneye]

When faced with your fears you retreat to imagination to comfort yourself.
You just confessed to not counting,anthropologically speaking.
Your philosophy counts against your future survival,looking at it that way.
Just develop some will and rise above.
No one passively excelled at anything.
No one ignored history and lasted long either.
From a nurturing womanly view,fighting kids are upsetting,but thats their job.anthropologically speaking.Nurturers,.
Men are still,hunter gatherers.
Falling outside this necessity lessens your chances to produce progeny,especially progeny that have a chance because your recessive behaviors are inherited and taught.
I won't say that there aren't other affecting factors,but at its base,it is irrefutable.
          You're welcome,no I don't mind picking up the slack,yes,I have a woman and children,have defended them and you.I am a self made man and work for myself.
I find it funny,strange and interesting to speak to those less motivated to live or think individually.( I did notice your talking points were all just regurge-cliche so you evidently haven't thought out your position to its ends).I enjoy people of all walks of life despite their self imposed destructiveness.
In the morning the lion knows if it isn't faster than the slowest antelope it will go hungry.The antelope knows if it isn't faster than the fastest lion it will be catfood.
either way everyday you've got to hit the ground running with all the will you can muster.