What Jobs are Available for Math Majors? 301
Asmor asks: "I'm currently a CS major/math minor in college, who's strongly considering a role reversal. I like working with computers as a hobby, but I'm not so sure it's what I'd want to do for a living. On the other hand, I love math, especially in its pure and abstract forms. I would like to get a doctorate some day, but ideally I'd like to find a job as soon as I get my bachelor's. I've expressed this interest to important people in my life (like my parents and such) and the general consensus is that there aren't any jobs for math majors. I can't really disagree. Aside from teaching it, something I'm not sure I'd want to do, I can't think of any jobs for math majors. So, what options are out there for me if I did decide to switch? Would my future consist of high school math classes? Also, how much work is involved?"
Actuary (Score:3, Informative)
Most seem to become teachers or stay in academia (Score:3, Informative)
I suppose the other 1% goes on to get a Masters and PhD in Math and stays at the University forever.
what about teaching? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm a high school teacher, but there are plently of community colleges in the same fix (I do them part time on occasion as well). I know the community colleges around here allow their teachers to also work tech if they desire. This way, they can keep their skills sharp and up to date.
Finance / derivitives (Score:5, Informative)
Career Possibilities (Score:5, Informative)
1. Actuarial Science
Lots of probability and statistics if that's your thing. I've heard the qualification exams are pretty tough, and since you haven't really devoted study to it as an undergrad, you'd have to get some graduate education before you could even hope for a job.
2. Biostatistics (and other things like this)
Again, this would require some more education, but there's a good chance of you getting a job. Biological research is only going to continue to grow, and there's always room for someone to do the important mathematics.
3. Computer Science
I'm sure other people will point this kind of thing out, but places like Google, etc. definitely don't mind having mathematicians with CS background for things like algorithm development and the like.
4. Mathematics
Stick with it and get your PhD in pure (or applied) mathematics. Get a post-doc, and then a professorship, and enjoy a rewarding (intellectually) life in academia. If you really love it, this is a great way to go.
I think the main theme of this post is probably that the best way to ensure that you get a job (that does not involve teaching minors) is to keep going in your education. That is not to say that you can't get a job with a BS, but I think you'll find there's a lot more open to you in today's world with at least an MS.
Lots of options (Score:5, Informative)
Part of what I'm saying is that you can do CS and not end up as a programmer, per se.
The other half of the equation is that there *are* significant (well-paying) jobs for mathematicians. Now, I doubt that you'd want to (or could) seriously pursue any of them with just a BS, but a PhD need not be a requirement. My S/O's employer has several math/statistics majors on staff who perform marketing analysis, trending, etc... some of it rather high-powered stuff. If you look into the Actuarial or Operations Research fields (if that floats your boat), there are awesome opportunities.
Whatever direction you choose, I strongly encourage you to go past a BS -- at least stay in school through an MS program. For one thing, it opens more doors down the road (I've gotten at least two jobs partially because I have an MS/CS). More importantly though, IMHO, it makes you a better professional; you learn a heck of a lot more in grad school than in undergrad -- at least that was my experience. You study your subject in far more depth and with far more rigor than in undergrad and you're treated more like a colleague than a student. It's an awesome experience, particularly if your're more of the geeky theoretical type
Whatever you do, make sure you enjoy it. Of course, you can always go back and get a second degree in underwater basket weaving or Anthropology, but it's a heck of a lot easier to get it right the first time. The sooner you identify a career path (at least vaguely), the better choices you can make in courses, internships, research focus, etc.
Good luck to you!
NSA (Score:2, Informative)
Theres a lot of things you can do.. (Score:4, Informative)
With a pure math BA you can basically go to any engineering, physics, biology, neuroscience, finance, econ, cs, etc masters or PhD program and do just fine. The important part about a math degree, is that it gives you the background and experience required to learn specific applications really quickly. There's a huge demand out there for people who are talented at math, although most of this demand isn't 'pure' math per se, there are a lot of interesting applied problems you can work on that do have theoretical interest to a mathematician.
You should really have no problem finding a job or getting into grad school in almost any tech/science type field that you're interested in coming out college with a BA in Math. The great thing about a math major, against a more specific applied major, is that you learn how to think about many of the applied problems in a deeper way, and since you're aquainted with the underlying theory, you can much more easily link various ideas that are only taught at a plug and play level in the applied fields (for example, most IOE curriculum is just rather narrow subset of graph theory & combinatorics).
Personally, I was interested in a lot of things as an undergrad, and decided to major in math since it basically kept all my options open on a grad/job level, and I certainly haven't regretted that decision.
Hey, dude, forgot the largest one... (Score:5, Informative)
Paul B.
Bioinformatics (Score:3, Informative)
I think you'll find the bioinformatics field to be broad enough to meet just about any interest that you may have - work ranges from programming pattern recognition/alignment software (for protein or DNA work) to mathematical modeling of protein networks. Don't worry if biology isn't your greatest strength as you'll be working as a programmer/mathematician solving a biological problem, not as a biologist working with computers (in fact, graduate level programs in bioinformatics tend to recruit computer science majors as the biology/biochem/etc majors don't have the required background).
Some links for further information:
International Society for Computational Biology [iscb.org]
National Institute of Health [nih.gov]
UCSD [ucsd.edu]
Stanford [stanford.edu]
IBM [ibm.com]
Re:Actuary (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Actuary (Score:5, Informative)
To the OP: this may not be the best path for you if you're more interested more in pure and abstract mathematics, but if you can handle some mind-numbing drudgery every once in a while, it might not be a bad idea to look into becoming an actuary. The first two exams [beanactuary.org] aren't all that difficult, so I highly recommend checking out some of the sample questions to see if this kind of thing might be right for you. Buy a book or two and spend some free time studying and you could be well on your way. The best of luck to ya =)
Re:Your college degree gets you in the door (Score:3, Informative)
Exactly. Math was one of my majors. I am in charge of IT where I work--never had a comp sci class in my life. There are a lot of career opportunities in business/management for Math majors--ever test your logic/reasoning skills against an MBA (outside finance or econ concentration)? Most business school graduates lack quantitaitive analysis skills.
My advise--make sure you have a well rounded background. Take some literature classes to improve your language/analysis skills. A couple econ classes would be useful--I never took them, but read through macro and micro economics text books and found my knowledge of how the economy works to be on par with the typical business major.
When I hire people for the tech department for the ISP I run, I look for smart, well rounded people who have the capability and self motivated interest to learn. If someone is uncanny enough--like me when I learned economics--to learn a field/skillset on their own, has proven their logic/reasoning skills with a math major, and is a well rounded person with good communications skills, then I would hire that person in a heartbeat. I would not care what job they were being hired for--that person would be capable of being agile and competant in nearly any role they were in.
Re:A list (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Perfect (Score:3, Informative)
Re:There are a LOT of jobs (Score:2, Informative)
The poster is talking about a 4 year degree in math, and probably doesn't yet have an area of specialization. Specialization would determine what areas a mathematician might go into, which are basically teaching, crypto, Wall Street, or some branch of science.
With only the basic math knowledge from a typical 4 year degree, the guy could be looking at getting some entry level science job, getting a job in an area where he has some other interest or skill (such as a double major in bio or hobby programming, etc.), or going to grad school.
Basically, a math major is a weird sort of liberal arts major. It's not really science and it's not really a Humanity major. It's sort of like being a linguistics major, i.e. math:$science as linguistics:$language. Speaking of language, If the student has good English language skills, he or she might even consider law school. I don't mean being an expert in Elizabethan Poetry, but the ability to read and write. (However, just the fact that he is a slashdotter makes me less hopeful that he has these skills.)
Another possible job that, while teaching, is different from teaching in the classroom, is that of a private tutor. I have a good friend who is now a math professor. He made huge amounts of money tutoring rich Asian kids during and after his Master's work and even after he got his doctorate. Partly, it was the prestige of the parents being able to tell other parents that they had hired someone of his caliber and credentials that brought in the dough. But we're talking $50 -$75 an hour! He got his start right after college working for a tutoring service, which got him plugged into the Korean community here in Los Angeles.
Anyway, all of this is to say that he's fucked if he wants a "math" job straight out of college. Without any further qualifiers, he's got just as good a chance for a job as an Art History major.
Actuary, Quant (Score:2, Informative)
My experience is that the math in the exams will probably start at about what you could comfortably do at 18 (but may have forgotten since
The key requirement for the job (aside from passsing the exams) is IMHO enjoying working with numbers all day
if the exams put you off, consider "quant" work in the finance field
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/047
I think traditionally they've picked up people with PhD's in Math and Physics who didn't want to continue in those fields (or wanted to multiply their earnings subsatntially). Hedge funds, investment banks, etc are the potential employers.
Re:There are a LOT of jobs (Score:5, Informative)
the degree is worth more than you think.
Math majors get hired all the time. The major appears more esoteric than electrical engineer but there are lots of jobs out there where a variety of degrees can meet the requirements. In addition to that alot of fields prefer job candidates with more applied math skills like machine learning, computer vision and medical imaging. And, like mentioned above, financial companies have math heavy positions to look for credit card fraud and market modeling (but to work on wall street you will probably need an advanced degree).
When I was getting my degree (computational physics) I too was worried about my qualifications and felt I had to "specialize" or else I wouldnt be marketable. I am glad I did it but in the end what mattered more is I could show that I could do decent work by having a senior paper. My first job was doing semiconductor device fabrication in a research lab and I had almost no experience in the field. Now I am doing machine learning and work with mathematicians, computer scientists, and engineers. We all have our strengths but we all do very similar work.
And, for what it is worth, if you go to http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/ [opm.gov] and search for jobs with the keyword AST (aerospace technology), the qualifications say
"Basic Education Requirement: A bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university with major study in an appropriate field of engineering, physical science, life science, computer science, or mathematics (not engineering technology). "
Those are the NASA jobs avaliable to math and engineering majors
Re:There are a LOT of jobs (Score:3, Informative)
About the Wall Street job: actually, math modelling doesn't take much, maybe a book or two on financial math and you're set. I've been told I could pick it up in a month or so. The hard part is being good.
Banks like Maths (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Actuary (Score:1, Informative)
Also while the initial exams are all about maths, the later ones don't involve maths at all and are generally about how to keep insurance companies profitable or pension funds from running out of money, ie they ask - what are the risks of product x rather than what is the value of a $5,000 annual pension for a 60 year old male non-smoker.
Also by this stage the work you do is vastly different from the exams. I spend most of my time developing stochatic models of different insurance funds, something which the exams touch on the theory of but not the practise.
Re:Finance / derivitives (Score:1, Informative)
All this is not to dissuade you, if you want it, go for it, just make sure you know what you're going for.
Good Luck, and far more importantly, don't forget to have fun / have a life. Take some time off and you'll be surprised how clearing your mind brings answers.
Re:There are a LOT of jobs (Score:3, Informative)
Without the story poster giving us information about who he is and what he is interested in, we can't really tell him what he's good for. And as far as your career goes, you wouldn't have gotten in if it wasn't an area that you were at least interested in, let alone prepared for.
The part about his being fucked and that his degree is "as good as an Art History major" was a joke. I forgot to follow it with a smiley for the humor impaired. Forgive me.
But I think you took exception to my comparing a Math major to the so called Liberal Arts. Do you consciously or unconsciously look down on the various humanities and social science majors? Maybe I'm wrong about this. Correct me if I am.
By the way, I checked that link. I don't know if this was intentional or merely carelessness on your part, but you left off some of the requirements for those jobs:
(Emphasis mine)
I think that gives a bit of a clue as to what they're looking for. Sure, you can apply if you're fresh out of college. But lets face it. Aerospace is not really a growing field and it's highly competitive, even for entry level jobs.
Re:Actuary (Score:2, Informative)
The exams are VERY competitive. Here is an Acrobat PDF file with history of passing percentages from the Society of Actuaries web site: http://www.soa.org/ccm/cms-service/stream/asset?as set_id=20512065 [soa.org]
In the good ole days, most of the actuarial jobs for the life insurance industry were in the northeast. I am happy to report that snow isn't an issue any more. There are lots of actuarial jobs everywhere.
And there of lots of different types of actuarial jobs:
life insurance
health insurance
pension plans
I am a pension actuary.
Re:Hey, dude, forgot the largest one... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:There are a LOT of jobs (Score:2, Informative)
Companies that hire math majors (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, it takes quite a few years and a lot of work to get a Ph.D, so take that into consideration -- make sure you like it.
Another option that a few people have mentioned is financial services. A lot of brokerage firms on Wall Street love to hire math majors with CS knowledge. The math is needed for financial modeling and the CS is needed in order to implement those models in actual trading programs. Out of all of my classmates who work at companies, about half have chosen this route. Contrary to what a lot of the comments here have stated, it is in fact quite possible to get a job in a trading firm with only a bachelors degree, but of course your salary will be lower than if you had a Ph.D.
It is definitely not true that math majors have no jobs. If your parents need convincing, look up the recent Business Week cover story from a few months ago about the exploding number of job opportunities for math majors in the current information driven economy. The myth that math majors only have teaching jobs is something that was maybe possibly true 20-30 years ago when computers were not a big deal and manufacturing was dominant, but it's not true anymore. Nowadays math majors are in higher demand than ever because tech skills are so complex that employers increasingly look for more foundational training such as a mathematics background as opposed to someone who has already specialized in some narrow subject area before even leaving school.
Re:Actuary (Score:3, Informative)
First of all, it is definitely a profession that you can go into right out of school with a BS in Math. In fact, you can go into it with a degree in pretty much anything as long as you have the requsite math aptitude.
Second, unlike other careers, your career is pretty much defined by passing exams. This can be a double-edged sword. On the plus side, it provides an objective means to determine how you progress in your career. Instead of getting promoted because of how well you kiss the butt of some old fart, you get promoted for achieving passing grades on exams. (Of course, once you are done progressing through exams, your promotions are determined by the usual political stuff). On the downside, there are people who would made great leaders or managers, but who are limited in their career if they cannot pass exams for whatever reason. If you cannot pass exams in the actuarial profession, then you are better off leaving the field, since you won't get very far.
As far as the exams go, they are hard in the sense that the pass rate is usually around 50% or so. If you do not pass on the first try, you must wait for up to a year to take the exam again, which can slow your progress. The first few exams are math and statistics oriented. They do require some good math aptitude, but like all exams, there are "tricks" that can be learned which are indepedent of your skill. If you are good enough to get a BS in Math, you certainly should be able to master the math necessary to pass the exams. The later exams focus on insurance, finance, and business. These exams are less-math oriented and involve more memorization of various rules, procedures, and standards of practice. I found that these exams required a very large time committment since there was a lot of reading, memorization, and regurgitation of facts. People who breeze through the hardcore math exams often had a hard time with the insurance-related exams. Likewise, there are people who struggle with the math exams but have an easy time with the later exams.
I feel that to be successful on these exams, you don't necessarily have to be a math genius, but you have to have the mental fortitude to handle a high-pressure exam situation, and you have to have the committment to be able to dedicate the time necessary to study and practice for the exams. If you are one of those people who don't like the pressurized atmosphere of exam taking, or if you don't feel like you can dedicate the time to reading thousands of pages of esoteric insurance regulations, then all of the math genius in the world isn't going to help you with the exams.
As far as the work environment goes, this varies depending upon the area you decide to specialize in. I worked for a life insurance company, which, in general, is considered to be the more laid back environment. Rarely did I work more than your standard 40 hour week (not including time to study for exams). However, you can also work for a benefits/pension consulting firm, which I am told, is a real high pressure grind, especially for the lower level people. I have heard stories of people working 80+ hour weeks for consulting companies because they just had to get some project done for a client.
Most of the work I did was actually writing computer programs to perform various actuarial calcuations. In fact, most of actuarial work nowadays is done by computers. The higher level actuaries might suggest changing various assumptions and factors, and then I would modify the program to use those changes, run the program, and produce a new model. I really enjoyed the work quite a bit. In fact, I enjoyed it so much that I decided to switch my career from being an actuary to being a software engineer. I figured that since the part of the job I enjoyed the most was the programming aspect, I might as well concentrate on that aspect for a living. I did end up getting the first level of