Nerds Make Better Lovers 1148
ultimabaka writes "The New York Daily News, fine bastion of reporting that it is, released an article today discussing the rise of nerd popularity among women in general, and famous women in particular. Detail is given into the dating exploits of Christina Aguilera and Elin Nordegren (nerdy Tiger Woods' supermodel squeeze), among a bunch of regular Janes. Apparently being a nerd is now in?"
Female Logic (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: "Revenge of the Nerds" (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd bet that we are more attractive to people who are more mature, people who've gone through the mistakes in relationships and see that the smart money is on the more sensible, intelligent, cooperative and stable nerd. Plus nerd isn't instantly a bad thing now. Sure cool will always be cool, and they'll probably always get the pick of the litter, but eventually the pick of the litter will see that cool tends to be shallow and after they learn that lesson and are ready to move on to something more substantial, a nerd will always be waiting in the wings.
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Female Logic (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm talking about stuff like being cynical, unable to trust men, becoming manipulative themselves, etc. I am also making generalizations, but many single women in their late 20's to early 30's I have dated have had these issues.
I am a fairly nerdy 29 year old engineer, but I look alright and have decent conversational skills. I can definitely tell when a woman is responding positively to my 'nerdly' traits (honesty, sincerity, unselfishness, kindness), or being turned off by them. I have a good income (which is attractive to anyone), so if I can pretend to be a bit of a alpha-male jerk I can usually attract either type depending on if I'm looking for a relationship or a fling.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now. To your comment about 'pick of the litter.' I'm saying that there are probably three geek guys to each girl willing to date them. (money tilts things in the end) Women aren't attracted, naturally, to men who are intense. My favorite theory on this is from Swingers, "I don't want you to be the guy fromm the PG-13 movie who everyone's rooting for. I want you to be the guy from the R rated movie that you're not quite sure about yet." Nerds, generally, are the guys from the PG-13 movie.
Re: "Revenge of the Nerds" (Score:3, Interesting)
What? Where is this study? I'm curious because I workout regularly (for the last 10 years) and although I'm in good shape, I never really developed an athletes body. Now, some part of that is surely genetics, but I'm wondering if lack of focus has an effect. I really only think about exercising when I'm actually doing it. As a programmer I am completely focused on that for 99% of the time I am awake. I wonder if the mere fact that I don't (or can't) think about being "big musclely dude" detracts from my potential in that area.
Meh, anyway... Let me tell you guys, you don't want the supermodel girlfriend. I have been down that road many times. Attractive (in the pop-culture sense) women may make good playthings for a while but make horrible long term relationships and even worse wives. I actually prefer to have long term relationships because then I don't want to waste energy thinking about that crap. So I guess
Save one for me though as I'm still trying to find a geek girlfriend.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Interesting)
Even attractive geeks can confirm the accuracy of the above statement.
I'll go even further to establish the real problem with being a geek. You can't attempt to "court" a lady, or even flirt with them without looking your official geek status.
Since there are no, and I absolutely mean: no, women out there willing to "court" a man, your life will consist of waiting for a girl to talk to you, and/or maybe getting lucky cause a chick four years younger than you feels sorry for you or can at least use your age to make the other girls jealous of her.
I want to establish something VERY clear for the good of geekdom: do not believe the hogwash in these articles by (mainly) women in fashion magazines and teen glamour shows on TV. The second they tell the girls this stuff, the girls consider it "old news" or their idea of a geek is someone like the article mentioned, Tiger Woods, or Clay Aiken. I'm starting to think that the media's definition of a geek is "someone who hasn't had a run-in with the law"; as if geeks don't do enough lines of coke or wife-beatings.
Re:The Real Reason is that Geeks Are Submissive (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't call it femdom. PLEASE!
I will agree that there is a feminizing of men going on (the whole Metro thing) but do not think that you will be "on top" or you ahve a right to be on top. This is largely due to the Pill. It puts power back into women's hands. They get to control if and when they reproduce. It is this finals say that allows them to take on higher education, careers and become wealthy and a huge part of the economy with all the repurcussions therein.
I also admit in societies where everyone is equal, that typically women do end up in power, due to us being baby batter cannons and always following our lower heads.
But do not think that you are superior. Each sex has its strengths and weaknesses. Do not think that any sex is more powerful than the other. We need each other to survive.
The same time you spew all that female superiority BS I can throw out sites like this [intellectualwhores.com]
I will agree though that women's place in society has suffered since the greek civilization. This is because they were the first ones to realize 1 man+1 woman= 1 child. Previous cultres assumed that the childs paternity was proportional to who the mother had slept with up to the time of conception. Greeks realized it was 1 man, and 1 man's only. This then put women into a position of sequestered in the mans house. Women have been digging out of that ever since. I think it is a travesty that it happened, and I do welcome you as equals but do not begin ever to think you are superior.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Nothing New Here: Dames Marry Nerds (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:But seriously, SHOWER! (Score:5, Interesting)
- And just accept the fact that attractive women want attractive men. That's biology for you. Sorry. If your personality can overcome that, good for you, but most of us are programmed by God, Darwin, whoever, to chase the most physically attractive of the opposite sex. The so-called geek success stories here are successes because they have lots of cash, which frankly, goes a long long way toward attracting women.
Not entirely true. Yes, some women insist on a standard of "only hotties need apply", but please bear in mind that women have different standards of what they consider physically attractive. Personally, I don't have much interest in the Tom Cruise / Brad Pitt type; even when they manage to be down-to-earth emotionally, they're what I refer to as "beige wallpaper". It's versatile, goes with anything; you can dress it up or take it down to the bare minimum, but when you come right down to it, it's still beige wallpaper. Bland and boring. Give me a few quirks and a face with some character to look at, instead.You might be correct in the general sense, but it is still a generalization. :)
Beauty and the Geek! (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't see how geeks and nerds can be better lovers from that show especially with Richard.
Re:naturally... (Score:1, Interesting)
I'll post this AC since I don't want to come off as a bragart...
Define 'nerd' (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Interesting)
i'm 25 (about the same age as you from what i can tell). i've been in a handful of relationships. the first girl i dated was unstable, but ended up breaking up with me... i enjoyed the stability of having just one girlfriend. we dated for about a year (during which, we had "adventure" and did a lot of different things). had some fun for a few months with a couple other girls. next girl i seriously dated was for 4 years. i thought i'd marry her. it ended up not working out. she was too young and immature.
i'm currently dating a girl, have been for 6 months. i know she's the girl i'll marry. now, while dating her, we'll have fun, go out and do different things, try different things. we already have, and it's been great.
i know a lot of married people, some are settling down with kids, others are going out and having fun and travelling, etc. of course if you wanna go out and sleep around and be with a lot of different women, well, marriage just doesn't allow for that. sure, i get a bit frightened by the fact that this could be the last girl i ever date, but knowing her is the consolation....
Sex tips for geeks (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, it's not sarcasm, jokes or anything. It's two wpmen giving tips about relationships, building confidence, and so on, specifically for geeks.
Well congatulations. (Score:4, Interesting)
I put the ad in front of my fiance, and watched. Over about seven seconds, his face turned from daily-default expression to smelling-onions-and-old-celery. "They're all tubby" he said. I was crushed.
I was crushed because I work out three times a week, pay all the bills, get paid roughly three times as much as he does, ride a motorcycle, have fabulous hair, very often get asked out, and this all adds up to one thing.
I can't be normal. I'm not allowed. If I get to be normal, it means that I've just lost whatever it was that made me.
I listen when he's having a horrible day. I dance when there's no music for no reason. I come home and work on the house-wifey duties, and I make him laugh so hard and so often that any tone in his stomach is at least 60% to my credit. I never thought that I'd have to figure out how to be a good mate despite being pretty because now being pretty is synonymous with being ditzy.
He is an engineer, and a mechanic, and one of the most nerdy guys I've ever met. He is doting, and flattering, and patient, and as long as I continue to be nothing short of a full-blown goddess, he will continue to be wonderful.
At least pretty-boys are low maintainance. At least jocks and players they know they're worthless, it actually turned them into better people. Nerds aren't the underdogs, they're the staple, now...and they know it.
Congratulations boys, now you're the trophy.
Re:Confidence (Score:1, Interesting)
I would like to call attention to the operative part of your assertion: hot chicks frequently do end up with jerks.
Now that you know this, why not exploit it? Stop wishing for an imaginary world where females suddenly become rational about this.
Nothing revolutionary here, but I would like to cite several illustrations:
- The Deacon Effect [galaktek.com]
- Ladder Theory [laddertheory.com]
At first, I experienced an ontological crisis while trying to pretend to be an asshole to females. It just went contrary to my nature. However, I assure you that it has significantly improved my success. Eventually, I have come to consider it to be a reasonable price for the rewards (having a hot girlfriend, not being alone, etc).Even better: over time, you can phase out the asshole factor you use to attract the females in the first place. Eventually, one can be their kind, self-depreciating self around the female.
Just not at first.
Think of it as a positive bait-and-switch. Hell, or disagree with me and don't use this approach... it just means more "hot chicks" for me and those like me.
Re:But seriously, SHOWER! (Score:3, Interesting)
After having lived in showerless depression for a long time, I decided to confront my dark side of Geekdom, and get some professional help. The initial results were not good, but eventually I found a doctor that understood my geekiness and he put me on the right track. Maybe I was served a nice stew of common sense and standard medical practice, but it changed my daily life for good.
In retrospective, I lost some of those dark side of Geekdom traits that make geeks or nerds so unactractive to the general population, but I can now recognise that it is useless to be the smartest guy in the room if nobody understands you.
On the other hand, being smart, a total geek, and being able to interact in normal social circumstances is a very good receipe for success.
As my Father would put it before leaving to his sister-in-law's birthday party, "we all have to make sacrifices to be part of society."
Re:Confidence is earned, you don't just grow it. (Score:1, Interesting)
"Some guys seem have all the luck," as the saying goes. But I guarantee you that these guys also get rejected far more often than you do. What makes them successful, as much as anything else, is the fact that they try more often. It's an odds game.
Re:But seriously, SHOWER! (Score:2, Interesting)
SlashChick's best comment is #4
One of the best decisions I ever made was to recognize that any girl who liked some other guy better than me just wasn't smart enough to be my girlfriend.
Re:Well congatulations. (Score:5, Interesting)
I put the ad in front of my fiance, and watched. Over about seven seconds, his face turned from daily-default expression to smelling-onions-and-old-celery. "They're all tubby" he said. I was crushed.
Maybe he was just trying to say that he likes you better than all of them. I mean, if he'd said "they look nice", how would you have taken that? He may very well have thought that you wanted him to point out why they were all worse choices than you.
Men dread such ad-hoc tests, because we often don't know which reaction is the right one, within the twisty maze of feminine logic. And, by "right" reaction, I don't mean the one that will make her think what we want her to think, I mean the one that will make her understand what we really think. Women tend to analyze relationships much more deeply than men do, with a result that they read more into our reactions than is there -- it's not uncommon that they read so deeply that they get entirely wrong answers.
If you want to know what your fiance thinks, don't try to test him like that, just ask him. He might lie to you, sure. That's a risk you have to take. But trying to draw conclusions from his reaction to magazine photos just causes you to deceive yourself, which makes you angry at him -- which leaves him baffled, because he, being a man, missed the whole damned thing!
Keep in mind also that his reaction to the appearance of random women on the street is *NOT* necessarily related to how he would view you if you looked like them. This ought to be obvious, actually. Would you love him more if he were built like a Chippendale dancer? Would you love him less if he were 30 lbs heavier than he is? While men are more focused on appearance than women, they're not *that* much different. My wife was slender when I met her and married her, and she's now somewhat overweight, but I still love her. More, actually, than I did then, because I know her much, much better.
So, rather than showing him pictures of other "tubby" women and asking what he thinks of *them* and then assuming that implies something about what he would think of a "tubby" *you*, why don't you just ask him what he would think if you put on twenty or thirty pounds? Point out to him that you won't always have time to work out three days a week and that you probably will gain some weight.
Yes, he'll hate those questions. Just like we hate the inevitable "Does this make me look fat?" and "Do I look older than her?". And he may even lie, giving you an answer that he thinks will make you happy, rather than the flat truth -- it takes many years before there's enough confidence in a relationship that flat truth isn't frightening.
But even if he lies, it will be a lie intended to make you happy, and that's what you really want to know. As long as it's more important to him that you be happy than that you be his ideal woman, you know that your life with him will be good.
I think I'll have my wife read your post and this response and get her reaction... :-)