Color Printing Without the Inkjet Mess?

Above writes "Many recent /. stories have been about the problems of inkjet Printers. Seems they all want to sell the printer for cheap, and then use the ink to make up the difference. There are also problems where a lack of printing, or printing too much, could make it much more expensive to use your inkjet. So, since mine just died, what are the best options? I'm intersted in two catagories, a 'personal' color printer, probably USB to a machine, and a 'workgroup' color printer, with ethernet, postscript prefered. While Windows is good for my application, something that plays well with FreeBSD and Linux would be a major win as well. I'd consider laser if it's cheap enough (read $500/printer), and I don't think that it is. I'm willing to pay a bit more for the printer if that means bigger ink tanks, better cleaning, and easier to buy replacement supplies, the question is, are there really good options out there or have the low-end 'throwaway' printers taken over the market?" One option is a modded inkjet like the ones here, liberated from tiny ink cartridges. Any recommendations out there for decent color lasers?

Continuous Re-inking System

[SuperHick]

That's what you want my friend if you want the lowest cost per page. Quite a few people are running these in Cannon S series and some of the middle tier Epsons for commercial use. More Info here http://www.weink.com/ecart/crs.htm although I'm sure there are other manufacturers as well. The inks in the kits are rated for 20 years under glass. I've been using them myself (not the CRS, but the same inks) for about 7 months now and I'm happy as a pig in slop.

Inkjet vs. laser

[King_TJ]

I've been dealing with LOTS of printing issues and printer headaches for years and years. (I did PC support for 6 years for a company with lots of networked printers, not to mention doing sales for a few years that often involved printer recommendations.)

I really do like a good color laser printer, BUT, I'm not convinced these are practical yet for most home users. I know prices have come down quite a bit - but a color laser is still a very complex piece of machinery. You generally have 4 toner cartridges, plus all the additional hardware that allows the printer to mix those toner colors on the page, fuser rolls, charger grids, and other assorted "disposable" items that aren't a factor with a plain black and white laser.

Everyone I know who bought a Xerox (formerly Tektronics) color laser is sitting there now with a broken laser in need of expensive repairs.

Inkjet printers have virtually no repair costs, because if one stops feeding paper properly or a print nozzle just quits squirting ink - you throw the thing away and buy a whole new (likely faster and better) printer for less than the cost of a service call, and you're back up and running.

Last time I saw a real cost analysis done, a color laser cost you about 2 or 3 cents per page to print in full color. If you buy the right inkjet printer, the cost is probably about 4 to 5 cents per page.

These cost calculations don't factor in the issue of repairing or replacing broken printers. They make the assumption that both units are fully functional for the duration of time you print those pages. Figuring in repair costs, I'd say an inkjet becomes cheaper and more convenient in the long-haul. (They use less electricity too.)

ALPS!

[fuzzeli]

I still have an ALPS MD-1300 "micro-dry" thermal printer, with tape-based cartridges like a typewriter. It's a workhorse, never has any inky mess, and puts out great output, especially in dye-sub mode. Alps doesn't make printers anymore, and although the cartridges sets are on par with inkjets as far as package cost, they're separate for each color and last quite long.

I'm not sure I'd buy a discontinued printer, but I wish someone would continue developing this superior technology.

Workgroup Inkjets

[LoadStar]

Networked inkjets, as late as a year ago, were fairly prevalent, with models available from just about all of the major vendors. I don't know what happened - whether it's a sign that color laser is entering the sub-$1000 marketspace or what - but when we looked for a networked color inkjet, HP was really the best option out there.

Epson seems to have dropped their mid-range workgroup inkjets. The only model they have networked out of the box is the C82, which is a rather low-end printer - nothing I'd consider a workgroup printer. Canon likewise has absolutely no networked inkjets at all.

Lexmark has a few networked inkjets, but what with the recent stuff with their using the DMCA to corner the inkjet cartridge market, and given we've used Lexmark printers and had mediocre quality out of them, I decided to pass. The only model they are still marketing/selling is the Lexmark Optra Color 45n, if you're interested.

HP has a couple of decent models - the 2280 and the 3000. We ended up going with the 2280 here, but both are very good models. The one caveat that I'd have to say - make sure you get the latest JetDirect EIO card. The older ones had a PITA for a web interface, while the new ones are a dream to work with (and support ZeroConf/Rendezvous!)

Re:Workgroup Inkjets

[demontechie]

HP has a couple of decent models - the 2280 and the 3000. We ended up going with the 2280 here, but both are very good models.

I'll second the HP 22xx's as an excellent choice. I've got a 2250TN here at home; it's been a joy to configure and maintain and the print quality is gorgeous. I hardly ever use my HP 4M Plus anymore, even for text. (The only thing it always gets is the CAD output. Inkjet still can't quite compete with that laser crispness for the finest lines.)

And as LoadStar mentions, the JetDirect card is an absolute must. Ahhh, PostScript & ethernet networking, how do I love thee?

Wax Printers

[concordeonetwo]

I love those Tek Phasers! It was well worth the wait to print from one of those. When my school got rid of them, and replaced them with a cheap HP injket, the picture didn't look right. I should of picked that one up that was on a donation pallet...

Re:Any experience with Magicolor?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd deal with outpost.com before dealing with tigerdirect, and you're obviously not going to get a rebate on the refurbs they're sellling

You won't be disappointed with the purchase. A few points:

Noise protection earmuffs are a mandatory accessory with the Magicolor.

AAs with any laser printer, be warned that it smells; especially when new.

In regards to toner, this printer is REFILLABLE and that covers about 6-8,000 pages. the refills on eBay are about 90 dollars for ALL colors

Dull prints

[xixax]

Plus many of the cheap colour lasers I have been looking at are quite dark/dull when compared with expensive colour lasers or even cheap inkjet printers. They also seem to be quite poor at continuous tones.

You can afford to buy several "disposable" inkjet printers for the price of even a cheap colour laser.

Colour lasers also seem a bit hit-and-miss quality wise, even within a manfacturer. We have some that are fine, then others that are pretty much lemons. I just looked at someone's Xerox that's been in for 6 months now and it seems OK. If we get one, it'll probably have an extended on-site warranty.

I am thinking of buying a cheap inkjet for home and emailing pics I want printed to the local camera store, where they are printed for about as much as it costs to get a good set of 35mm prints done.

Xix.

Re:Color Laser Printeres

[raju1kabir]

Well, if he were really looking for a "hardcore printer", as you put it, he would've checked out Tektronix. We have one at the office (model 850) and it's been printing volumes for a while. Very reliable, nice quality, works without a hinch with Linux, PostScript and all. Even supplies seem to be reasonably priced (considering how long they last). And the coolest thing about it is that it uses ink sticks! You just feed them into the printer, so there is no catrige to replace, no scam with expiring catriges, no ink wasted. As it uses up a certain color, you add more sticks of that color. That's all.

There are some serious drawbacks with this printer.

(1) It can't print gray except at the lowest quality setting. At any reasonable (i.e., non-fax-looking) setting the gray comes out seriously brown.

(2) The ink ain't cheap.

(3) The ink rubs off under moderate pressure. Worse yet, it you print out a bunch of pages and leave them stacked up for a few weeks, they stick together and when you separate them, ink sticks to the backs of the other pages.

(4) Its RGB->CMYK conversion is atrocious, resulting in washed-out colors.

(5) The dither is far coarser than you'd get with a comparably-priced color laser. This means you can't do good gradients unless they're quite dark from start to finish. And photos with light areas look dotty.

(6) Its PMS matching is totally useless. The colors aren't even vaguely similar.

If they ever become available in my price range, I want one at home!

If you come pick it up, I'd just about give you ours. We spend a lot of money on color laser prints at Kinkos because of all the 850's output-quality problems. It's useless for serious proofs.

Re:Color Laser Printeres

[tmasssey]

Our client had exactly the same results with the same printer. Died after 500 pages. Of course, that happened 3 months out of warranty, and Xerox told us we were out of luck.

I've also had problems with HP color lasers. Open one up: there is toner *everywhere* inside. Very messy, and goes through drums quickly.

My personal favorite has been Lexmark's Optra color lasers. They are squeaky clean inside, and cheaper per-page than an HP. YMMV, of course, but I've had much success with them.

Re:Color Laser Printeres

[Anonymous Coward]

What a load. I've got an 4mb laser and it spits out whole-page bitmapped images just as fast as text. You'd need a really, REALLY old laser for the postscript processing time to be a non-negligable factor in printing speed.
Not having enough RAM will screw with your overall speed, but that's another thing entirely. It's the transmission & retransmission of the data rather than the printer's actual printing mechanisms. Even then it's not that slow over ethernet or usb. Parallel is deathly slow, though.

Re:Color Laser Printeres

[LamerX]

Yeah they rock unless you want to print on legal paper. Appearantly the drum circumfrence isn't long enough to print a full legal sheet of paper, so you wind up getting this 1 inch margin on the top and the bottom. This would be fine and woudln't bother me, if only I had known this when I bought the dedicated legal tray. Whats the point of a legal tray if you can't print the full sheet of legal paper (i.e. LEGAL documents) ?

re: FreeColorPrinters.com

[scottj]

Actually, the current terms [freecolorprinters.com] are that the printer is yours after 3 years, not two.

Thanks for the link, though. I think I'm going to pick up one of these.

An inkjet recommendation

[wishlish]

My fiancee and I decided that, rather than pay a printer to do our invitations, we'd buy a new printer (our old Canon died after taking a header off the desk) and print them ourselves. While the geek in me loved this idea, the part of me that loves my fiancee dearly feared nights of her (or me) struggling with the printer, trying to get invitations to print straight, piles of misprinted invitations everywhere, struggles of anguish unleashed. We bought an Epson Stylus CX5200, which is a combination scanner/copier/inkjet, for about $150, with a $35 gift card to the office supply store thrown in (which we used to buy extra ink). To my amazement, the printouts all came out perfect. No lineup problems like with other inkjets I've tried, and the printing was fantastic. The copier function is also nice for rebates and work items, and the "footprint" on the desk is much smaller than the two devices were. So there's a recommendation for anyone looking for a quality inkjet. Apologies if that doesn't answer this particular question, however.

Minolta Color Laser

[EmagGeek]

Minolta makes a Color Laser Printer that sells for about $750 at Staples or just about any other computer retailer.

I have an Okidata color laser postscript printer that ran about $1050, and toner carts are about $60 apiece.

Overall, I like okidata because of their low consumable prices. The printers are more expensive, but the long term TCO is less than just about any other.

The printing cost on my B4200 B&W laser is about 7 cents per page and the color is about 30 cents.

Re:Tektronix Color Wax Jet Printeres

[macguys]

I ran into the "wasting the wax when the machine power cycles" problem on a couple of Phasers. I called tech support who told us how to turn off power cycling and sent us a free box of ink for our trouble.

hp color laserjet 8500/8550

[loraksus]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned it, but the HP color laser 8500/8550 prints 11x17 (sadly not full bleed, but 1/4" margin or something close to that). The toner cartridges last forever and a day and the output is quite nice. It was also designed before Carly / the compaq merger, so it's not a piece of shite that will break in 13 months. It's not that I don't trust the 4600, but I trust it less in the long run.
I've seen them for sale in stores for $1500ish - they are getting kind of old, and I think HP wants to discontinue the product, but get that and the onsite warranty (you aren't moving this in your car) in case something should happen and you'll have a workhorse machine for $2k.
The printer is also huge, if you need that whole geek factor thing ;)