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Space

Space Diving 148

Posted by michael from the perfect-re-entry--no-splash dept.
Anonymous Coward writes "There's a Canadian company that wants to introduce a new sport called "space diving." It's like sky diving, but from space down to earth. But the interesting thing is the inspiration behind space diving: NASA had a wacked-out idea in the '60s for astronauts to return to earth without a capsule. The astronauts were expected to leap from the capsule toward earth with nothing but a spacesuit, a backpack, and a retrorocket gun to save them. A ballute (maybe filled with nitrogen or helium but I checked and a light foam was considered) in the backback would slow the reentry so the astronaut wouldn't char, and then parachutes would guide a traditional descent. But the weirdest part is they'd have to fire the gun to point themselves to the right height and position to come down over land. I'd never heard of this escape system before. Read the article."
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Space Diving More

Space Diving

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  • Re:Um. parachute reentry? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Actually modern high-performance parachutes do not work exploiting air-resistance. They are true wings, they generate lift thanks to Bernoulli's law and they maintain they aerodynamic shape thanks to the pressure created by air pushing on the front of the canopy. It's nevertheless true that a dense atmosphere is needed to generate enough lift to insure a safe landing. That's obviously not a problem when you are near the ground. So the problem stems from the following question: "How do I control my fall when am I in space?" The answer is that you wouldn't be able to do so if there were not enough air. But that's the same reason why you couldn't start spinning and flipping faster and faster. As the atmosphere become denser and denser, you would be able to fly as you do in a normal freefall. And believe me, flying with your body is a glorious experience! Blue Skies, an Italian Skydiver, Teo

  • I don't know about everyone else but... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There are so many possible points of failure during this dive, I wouldn't want anyone I care about doing it. Although, it'd be quite the trip to do yourself. How the hell do you aim yourself safely. You could land in the Arizona desert, or Montana? How do you arrange a ride after? Wow - cool.

  • cost? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How much would this cost? Only problem is I don't think anyone would believe you once you said you did it. I suppose if you were crazy enough to do it anyway, people usually don't believe you regardless of what you say...

  • Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    flat out wrong. _ALL_ evidence available (except for an obviously fake transcript posted to USENET) points to all the astronauts dying instantly in the fireball. The forces caused by such a rapid reconfiguration at such velocities are not survivable.
  • Um... yeah, I'm sure the rocket launching into space wouldn't tip off the infiltratee to watch for falling enemies...

    ;)

    1st Law Of Networking: Loose ends are bad, termination is good.

  • info: (Score:1)

    by crayz ( 1056 )
    http://www.winternet.com/~radams/chall/

    basically: it's a fake. you can tell it's fake just by reading it. the dialouge is worse than Tom Clany's
  • the first scenes, which show an old 60s-style Corvette dropping out of the Space Shuttle, re-entering the atmosphere, and landing with a bump and rattle on an old country road.
  • from calcultions I've done myself, neglecting air resistance after falling half way from shuttle orbit altitude an object is going only Mach 3. The catch? That's an object dropped from a dead standstill, not the Mach 25-30 or more of orbital velocity. But, given a proper retro rocket you achieve the dead stantstill drop and then use a few stages of small chutes to slow you down to subsonic speeds.
  • Anyone who has read Orbital Decay by Allen Steele should be familiar with this emergency system.
    How else would Hooker have gotten to earth?
  • Hence the ballute or drogue chute for stabilizing the jumper in the upper atmosphere!
  • Blame Canada! Blame Canada! With all their hockey hullabaloo, And that bitch Anne Murray too!

    --
  • Actually, if you read the site... it says that they will just go strait up and back down... there is no orbiting involved. =)
  • 1) Armstrong's Line - This is at an altitude of about 60,000 feet. At this level, the pressure is low enough to cause water to boil (remember Boyle's Law in physics?). Everything in you would boil - your blood, your interstitial tissue fluids, even the vitreous bodies (stuff inside your eyeballs). This is one reason why pressure suits are required at that kind of altitude. If you egressed from a spacecraft above that level without a suit, you would go "Cook! Cook! Cook!" (similar to Beavis' "Fire! Fire! Fire!"). After learning about Armstrong's Line way back, I have a different take when I watch movies when people go into space without any pressurization.

    Nope, this doesn't happen because you are actually wearing a quite remarkable pressure suit: your skin. What *will* happen if you try to hold your breath is that your lungs will blow out. But if you keep your mouth open and exhale, experiments in depressurization on animals (and on one human -- accident during NASA suit testing) you can expect to last thirty seconds to a minute, though you'll be unconscious quicker than that.

    http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answer s/970603.html [nasa.gov] has a good summation of the situation.
  • They would all get burned up by a 747 with a grudge...

  • pansy (Score:1)

    by maxume ( 22995 )
    pansy pansy pansy
    That's all you is, afraid.
  • Think about the potential. We could but a Special Operations force in orbit and within 20 minutes they could be anywhere in the world.
  • Yes, but good imaging of it...and it's likely a simulation of a real activity...well, as real as fiction gets... I'll trail off now.
  • Just a little note. The Challenger was toast. Once that o-ring blew out and the feul started to burn the vehical itself was totaled.

    As for saving the occupants. Maybe. The current theory is that they survived the blast and died on impact. Those are 2 or 3 seconds to end a life that I never want to spend. Watching the ocean come up at you as you plumit? No thanks. So *if* it was designed to allow the people to eject and lower themselves, successfully, then these things would be on trip-sevs now :-)
  • Problem is, when you get up that high, there is no atmosphere to slow you down or give you any sort of attitude control. From that height, you fall at supersonic speed. You tend to tumble and spin rather violently. In Project Man-High, the USAF tried to avoid the problem by using a drogue chute to stabilize parachutist, but on one jump, Capt. Joseph Kittinger was nearly killed when he entered a high speed flat-spin that caused him to lose conciousness. I used to jump out of planes in the army, and I understand the attraction of doing dangerous and foolish things, but this is just plain crazy. Thrill-seeking is one thing, but suicide is quite another. I don't foresee this sport becoming very popular. Maybe among the type of fools who like to go over Niagara Falls in a barrel, but not among your more average daredevils.

    ^. .^
    ( @ )

    Soylent Foods, Inc.
  • Hehehe.... Getting a good arch isn't going to help much up at that altitude. But think of the possibilities....

    * Finding the spot would be just a *tad* tricky.
    * Naked spacediving would be *strongly* discouraged -- lest some, um, appendages break off.
    * You could get a good 2000-way going without much trouble at all.
    * You could skysurf across the continent.
    * Two words -- freestyle fireball.

    :)
  • The parachute is for use once inside the atmosphere....
    And before you survive reentry... well thats what the backpack and rocket gun (which won't work.. but lets say for the sake of argument it will) are for.

    cheers,
    ecc
  • It was actually part of the script at one point, but for some reason they cut it...probably would have made the movie look even lamer than it already is.
  • I think this was a US Air Force project caleld "Project Manhigh." They pioniered the droug chute that slows the diver down so the force of the main chute opening doesn't kill the diver. They also used a mixed gass atmosphere enviroment instead of the pure oxygen that NASA was using and later changes after they lost two astronauts on the pad. See: http://www.flatoday.com/space/explore/stories/1998 b/081998a.htm [flatoday.com]
  • You just remind me of the (excellent) game Alpha Centauri, where you can do space insertion anywhere on the planet if you have already built the Space Elevator... pretty cool to drop some army next to an enemy city right in the middle of his territory :)
  • Actually, no it wouldn't. Believe it or not, in the 21st century (I can say that now, right?) -- space launches are pretty common. Look at the number of shuttle launches, satellite launches, and space probe launchs.

    Sure, everyone will know when the rocket goes up. It will simply be advertised as a commercial satellite launch. Besides, no one would expect for somebody to be JUMPING OUT of the damn thing!
  • Easily, it's the U.S. Army Rangers. They rock. It takes a real stud to pass Ranger School. Everyone in the unit is Airborne qualified. No one is "assigned" to the Rangers. It is 100% volunteer. Only the best are accepted.

    Sure the Navy Seals are tough, and I have a lot of respect for them. However, they are a very small force in the grand scheme of things. Tiny. Just a handful of them. Not enough to make a difference in most cases. It's tough to find a handful of men who can pass Seal training -- now imagine the Rangers' challenge fielding a whole brigade of them!

    The Green Berets are primary instructors and trainers. It's not like what you see in the John Wayne movies. The Green Berets mission is to jump in behind enemy lines and train insurgents. An important job, and a tough job -- no doubt. But they are not a direct action force. They work behind the scenes.
  • Awesome! That would require your enemy to defend every city, even ones in the interior of his territory. That's a tough one -- it would certainly slow his expansion. I would think taking out your space elavator would be a primary objective.
  • Just think of the military implications of this technology. A squad of highly trained commandos (pick your favorite flavor, U.S. Army Rangers, Navy Seals, Green Berets, etc.) space dives from orbit to infiltrate any country in the world undetected. This is ideal for covert ops. I wonder what the patch for space diving would like like on the uniform? I suggest a small icon of someone shitting their pants. Hahahahahaha!
  • Something like this would probably be
    outlawed in the US. One nice thing about
    putting wacky ideas into action in Canada
    is that they have a chance of being put
    into action.
  • Imagine the surprise advantage of having a regiment of troops show up out of nowhere.

    But why would Canada need to send the regiment up into space if it wants them to show up out of nowhere? It already has Saskatchewan.

  • This sounds like the *perfect* way to drop in on family and friends!
    *Crashes through the Roof* Well, hello everyone, how have you been?
    Did the Weird Al song `Slime Creatures from Outer Space' pop into anyone else's head besides mine?
  • Use your Iridium phone (as long as you don't collide with the satillites on the way down).

    ;-)

    -Radrik
  • The Quebec/New Hampshire border is at 45 degrees latitude. The same latitude line passes through the Minneapolis/Saint Paul metro region. Quebec is North of Minneapolis.
  • Although the guy from "Dark Star" obviously forgot to activate his safety ballute...:-)
    --
  • You have to be coming in at a relatively low angle to bounce off the atmosphere. The precice calculation of the angle is dependent on the speed you're moving at when you hit the upper atmosphere. I don't think these guys will ever leave the atmosphere completely .. and they'd be doing a pretty much perpendicular (relatively) trajectory.

    anacron
  • You misunderstand..

    There is no "air" up there, so the only thing that slows you down is a balloon filled with a substance that is less dense than the surrounding air, which provides the bouyancy in the other direction (namely, up). So you don't need a parachute, you just need a big, light baloon filled with something that will still provide enough pull to slow you down. Once you get down to about 20-30 thousand feet, you can deploy the drogue chute ... then at 7k feet the "real" parachute. It's all a matter of chosing a slowing method that meets with the surrounding environment.

    The reason hydrogen or helium may not work is because the temprature up there is so low, they may partially liquify. This would have undesierable effects. Thus, the foam is being considered so that the negative impact the low tempratures have will be minimal.

    anacron
  • Seems like there already is. ;)

    anacron
  • Woah! These remind me of the paratroopers in CivII, after you got . You could land them anywhere on the globe.
  • Jump with gyros maybe? They're heavy by nature, but could be jettisoned when deeper into the atmosphere...
  • Off topic? Man, that couldn't have been more ON topic.

    You crazy moderators crack me up.

    Rami
    --
  • Oh sure, point out the technicalities :-) .. still it was a fun movie, especially the "time to feed the alien"
  • This reminds me of John Carpenters first movie, 'DARKSTAR' -- Where one of the characters tries to surf his way down to a planet after his ship blows up. The movie itself is hilarious and I highly recommend it to anyone who likes goofy science fiction movies
  • I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone who would try something like this has got to be completely insane.

    Where do I sign up???

  • Whoa there, comrade. Generations was a movie. Biiiig difference. :)

    -J
  • Sorry - I missed the word "Generations" in the original post. My bad, as it were.

    But [s]he was right... it was certainly supposed to be in the movie.

    -J
  • I think you're right. I believe it was cut from the final movie, but I remember seeing somewhere photos of Kirk in this funky black padded suit and helmet with a parachute. It was pretty cool.

    I think this was in a "making-of" book or book section, or something of that nature... Anyway, it is a very Star Trek sport.

    -J
  • Intriguing... I missed that episode and was unable to catch it in repeats. But I'm sure ill have plenty of time before they stop doing Voyager reruns... :)

    -J
  • Wow thank you for sharing your extensive knowledge of gay porno movie titles with us.

  • SPACE TOURIST PUNCTURES 747 BOUND FOR BOISE

    SPRINGFIELD MALL GOER FINDS A BIT MORE THAN TOILET PAPER ON HER CAR.

    "AT first I thought it was a sick prank, but who would literally destroy my car then cover it in pizzas" states distraught area woman.
  • Snowcrash sucked - Gibson the only good SciFi
  • Lots of snowplows and salt. Actually, most Canadians live south of Minneapolis (most of Canada's population is in southern Ontario and Quebec).
  • ...and most Canadians live south of 45 degrees

    Canadian Pop Density [atlas.gc.ca]

  • Other than the coroners reports you mean? They were most definately all still alive until the hit the water. My grandad has been working in and around the space program since the late 50's and has quite a few colleges still working in NASA. One of his friend's daughters works in the Life Sciences dept in houston and she read the autopsy reports. Atleast 2 of the crew were out of the harnesses and moving around when they hit the water.

  • I don't thing that would be a problem, one would have to be going fast enough when one hits the atmosphere than continuing into it would make one quite well done when one hit the ground. I think the idea is to provide a ton of drag very early on so that the speeds are low enough that one does not bounce off or burn up upon re-entry.
  • If you bail out of a space craft of any kind at 100 miles above the Earth's surface, you'll drop to the earth like pigeon crap, if the parts of you left are even that big. No parachute would work at such a speed, for there is no air up there. Even if you pulled it when there was enough air to slow you down, you'd be going so fast that the air would rip it to shreds. At least when you drop from 50,000 feet there's enough air to keep you from building up too much speed.

    And the thrusters to slow you down? This may be the only method of keeping acceleration to ungodly speeds down, but I don't see it being too economical or practical.

    And there are many other factors, such as temperature, air to breathe, etc., surely some of this will be covered by the special space diving suit -- that would be one helluva suit...

    Either way, if this "space diving" is ever to become a reality, it will take years of research and computer-guided test-drops into the atmosphere with on board items such as those parachutes and thrusters... but of course NASA's already considered that at some point.

  • Heh, that comment reminds me a lot of a certain fighting tactic...

    "Get in there and fight! I've got your back! I'm right behind you!"

    (Friend gets pummeled by ungodly large muscled thing.)

    "I'm still behind you!" (as opposed to being in front of you getting pummeled in your place)

    Sorry, this was unrelated to the space diving. For my comments on that, read this [slashdot.org].

  • I admire this man for his amazing sky-diving feats, but that's all it was - sky-diving. 100,000 feet is almost 19 miles, and that is not anywhere near the outer limits of Earth's atmosphere. Of course, the sky all around you and above you at that height is very dark and would make anyone without knowledge of the atmosphere's limits believe that it is in space, but it isn't. You aren't in space until you reach ... oh ... 1,000,000 feet. And keep in mind that the moon is about 100,000,000 feet out.
  • I'm sure the USPA is going, ahhh...riiight. :) Actually, that sounds kinda cool. That would be a big time physical endurance test. Even freefalling the almost 2 minutes from 21,000ft will flat out exhaust many skydivers. Wouldn't mind trying it though. I am guessing you'd need your D to do it and a lowly A like myself couldn't even go near the DZ. :)
  • Minnisota isn't a city... and (< Ob. insult> ) more importantly, there is nothing of value there...

    Seriously, how do they deal with snow there? In Montreal (where I lived for 36 some odd years), the general rule is, big snow removal gear, running since early in the storm, and often. The downside is 2-3 feet high by 4-6 feet long by the width of the driveway of hard packed snow to clear (and a 10 foot high pile at the end of the front yard).

  • They were able to reuse the concept in a Voyager episode, though...the episode where Lt. Torres is trying to find creative ways to kill herself. One of the things she tries is an orbital-skydiving program on the holodeck (with the safety protocols disabled); you see her wearing the funky jumpsuit with the tiles on the outside while she's in a shuttlecraft, just before she makes her jump.

    As for Generations...yes, they filmed a sequence with Kirk landing after making a successful orbital skydive, but it was cut from the final movie. One of the Generations action figures I have is Kirk in the tile-covered jumpsuit.

    Eric
    --

  • hey, I'll join FROG and help raid Buckingham Palace! That sounds like a good time!
  • Don't tell you you actually read a *STAR TREK BOOK*!

    *shocked silence*
  • You can't get much more wacked out than an idea from a "Star Trek" movie. As I recall (and IMDB confirms [imdb.com]), Capt. Kirk skydived from orbit in an opening scene that was cut from "Star Trek: Generations." Though the scene wasn't in the movie, they sold dolls of Capt. Kirk with the high-tech chute. A friend of mine bought one with the absolute geek certitude that it would have even more value for being from a cut scene.
  • Sounds cool.

    You try it first!
  • Have you ever seen us play hockey? I rest my case.
  • We know all about drunk, armed rednecks--we have Alberta. (Think Texas, but colder, and with moose instead of whatever wimpy game you have down there.) We also know what real beer is (hint--it's not that watery stuff you drink).

    Besides, your drunk rednecks are just as much of a danger to themselves as to others. We'll just airdrop some strong Canadian Beer [labatts.com] beforehand, and they'll all be in a drunken stupor when we arrive.
  • Probably wouldn't work. The human body is mostly water, which as you may know, has an incredibly high heat capacity. The laser could cause blindness or moderate burns, but not death. To quote the greatest movie of all time (well...), Blazing Saddles, "Don't shoot him, you'll just make him angry."
  • There was also an episode featuring a space elevator, which had its share of mechanical problems.
  • Well, if you jump out of a spacecraft that's orbiting the earth won't you just....orbit the earth?

    Say you slow down enough to start hitting atmosphere, using that retro rocket, even in the extremely thin atmosphere you should be going fast enough to break the molecules apart.

    The best way I can think about doing this is to strap everyone to the outside of the last stage of a rocket. Have it go up a hundred miles, everyone detaches and falls back to earth.

    Man, riding a rocket on the OUTSIDE, that's extreme sports.

    Later
    ErikZ
  • Is it just me, or was this ripped straight from the book Star Trek Generations? You know when Kirk goes through his whole adventuring phase and does the space diving?
  • I don't know about you, but I read the book first. It was a weird purple and blue book, but it *was* Star Trek Generations.
  • Go back and read my original post .. the word air is in quotes. There is very little "air" up there .. but it's still part of the atmosphere. The reason things burn up when they hit the atmosphere is due to one thing : friction. At 20,000 miles an hour, even very little "air" causes great friction. So things get hot and they burn. They need the baloon chutes not to slow down, but to keep them oriented in the correct position. The baloon keeps them from tumbling in 3-space. It's the same concept as a drogue chute that's deployed during a tandem skydive.

    The problem is that when you get into the lower atmosphere, the baloon causes too much pull. The air is denser, so you can ditch the baloon and switch to a drogue chute to achive the same results -- no spinning.

    anacron
  • Um, on the first attempt the guy almost was stuck in the 'capsule', more like gondaola, they sent up. And I think he almost dies on that (or the second) attempt when a glove failed.

    Gotta rememebr from that altitude, the diver would exceed the speed of sound and be very aerodynamically unstable, a potentially life threatening problem...

  • I'm an USAF flight surgeon, trained in aerospace physiology. I'm not a skydiver, so those of you that are can add to my discussion below. I'm sure the Canadian folks have considered the following issues, but I thought it might be interesting to shed light on them here:

    (1) Armstrong's Line - This is at an altitude of about 60,000 feet. At this level, the pressure is low enough to cause water to boil (remember Boyle's Law in physics?). Everything in you would boil - your blood, your interstitial tissue fluids, even the vitreous bodies (stuff inside your eyeballs). This is one reason why pressure suits are required at that kind of altitude. If you egressed from a spacecraft above that level without a suit, you would go "Cook! Cook! Cook!" (similar to Beavis' "Fire! Fire! Fire!"). After learning about Armstrong's Line way back, I have a different take when I watch movies when people go into space without any pressurization.

    (2) Oxygen - Pressurized oxygen is required at higher altitude levels. Oxygen by itself it not enough, because at those levels, the partial pressure of oxygen in your blood is not enough to diffuse into your tissues. Therefore, without oxygen getting into your brain tissues, you would pass out. Interestingly, the TUC (time of useful consciousness, i.e. the length of time you would last without pressurized oxygen) at 25,000 feet is about one minute, while at 35,000 feet is about 15-30 seconds). This is why the airlines say you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first and then help others next to you (not the other way around!). Another thing, assuming you're using 100% oxygen, measures have to be taken to prevent it from igniting - remember in the Right Stuff, when Yeager ejected at high altitude? It wasn't shown in the film clearly, but when he had ejected, his oxygen caught on fire and had to deal with it on the way down - he ended up with burns on his face. He's one of our regular patients at work, and he's always telling stories like that.

    Unfortunately, "Naked Spacediving (tm)" probably wouldn't be possible. Hope this helps a little. Kudos to any non-USAF, non-professional skydiver who pulls this feat off without reaching subterranean mach speeds!

  • As a Canadian living and working in the U.S. (legally), I find this incredibly funny. I can't resist pointing out a few things though,

    <Ob. Canadian "eh"> eh?

    1. Yes, American beer is like sex in a canoe (fsking close to water), but I've never seen an American drink that swill -- the decent imported stuff is cheaper than soft drinks here.

    2. Texas wild pigs vs. Moose: Imagine a small import car. Imagine it three times it's usual size, but with the same weight. Imagine it mad at you. You got moose. (They're essentially docile, and blind, but can get pretty mean if pissed off).

    3. Canadians are world experts at telecom. They could probably coordinate a multi-city syncronized surprise attack from above. How much of telecom experts are Canadians? Canada is so big, with parts so remote, we shot up satelites with the sole purpose of delivering television to people... in the 1960s.

    4. Failing a military-style assault, Canadians, well French Canadians from Quebec, could resort to a secret weapon: Poutine. It's got enough artery-clogging stuff to kill even the most insensitized couch potato. Consider it culinary warfare. Quebec soft drinks (to wash it down) contain triple the usual dose of sugar and so rot one's teeth to the point of rendering them ineffective -- the yanks couldn't even bite the invaders (and lest anyone think that Americans won't eat garbage, remember that they invented McDonalds, KFC, and, shudder, Taco Bell, complete with talking dog).

    5. Canadians would attack in winter. From my experience, American cities and snow don't mix, becoming crippled with a 12 inch snowfall. Canadian cities get this about every 3-4 weeks in the winter. Nothing stops. Imaging a snowblower with a 100 inch wide and 36 inch tall maw, blowing snow 30 feet into the back of a truck (or your front yard). Imagine a vehicle big and strong enough to push the thing. Canadians know how to deal with snow. Americans don't even know what "snow tires" are. Yup, Canadians would attack in winter.

    6. Celine Dion, Anne Murray, and Rita McNeal. What, you thought they were singers? Canadians think of them as "acoustic soldiers".

  • Well, Project Manhigh only tested the high-speed high-altitude deployment 'chutes. Their tests never left the atmosphere, and didn't really involve any kind of reentry procedure.

    --
  • It is my understanding that (at least some of) the crew of the Challenger survived the initial explosion, as the flight recorder showed their attempts to regain control. It is believed that they died upon impact with the ocean, a fall of ten nautical miles that caused them to go through their six-point harnesses. Of course, in that case, there was no possible way for them to abort or otherwise escape the craft.
  • That rules, in the future people will jump from space to disturb sporting events and prank dive Buckingham palace.
  • He didn't almost die from the failed glove, but of course it's dangerous. I would not want to jump out of an airplane either, for that matter.
  • Even seen a Mercury capsule? They really arn't all that much more complex than some of these [friends-partners.org]. Guess you could say this has been done 7 times already.

    Mmm.. mush go watch "Right Stuff" now...
  • In the book "Orbital Decay" one of the beam jacks uses this exact method to escape to Earth. Steele wrote from the trainers point of view that given the choice between death and flying home on one of these contriptions they'd pick death. Anyway it's a good read if you can find it as it's out of print. So check used: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0441498515/

  • In 1960, Joe Kittinger went up in a helium balloon. This man is sometimes regarded as the first man in space, although he just went 20 miles up (outside the atmosphere, anyway).

    A recent BBC documentary showed a film from this event, as the guy was smart enough to bring a film camera ;-)

    Read more at http://fy.chalmers.se/~f3aamp/teaching/np/balloon. html [chalmers.se] and http://www2.tsixroads.com/corinth/jk016.html [tsixroads.com].

  • There is a lady that is currently in training to do a "space drive", infact I believe I found the link on SlashDot [slashdot.org]. Also, more can be found here [discovery.com]
    --------------------------------------
    I'm a karma whore, mod me up damn you!

  • That's what ballutes are for (Score:3)

    by XNormal ( 8617 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @03:24PM (#509641) Homepage
    Ballute=baloon+parachute

    A regular parachute will not deploy because there is not enough air, but the ballute will inflate and create just enough drag in the thin atmosphere to stabilize the spacediver.

    I wonder if Cheryl Stearns is also considering using a ballute for her record setting dive.

    ----

  • MOOSE, Paracone, et al. (Score:3)

    by SEWilco ( 27983 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @09:56AM (#509642) Journal
    Here is a collection of space rescue designs [friends-partners.org]. I personally like the Paracone -- a cone unfolds around you after the retro burn. Accuracy only good enough to hit a continent, but as long as there's air that's good enough.

    And let's not forget the space diving scene that Voyager's Torres does. Hopping out of a shuttlecraft and doing reentry wearing a spacesuit covered with heat tiles.

  • Re:Easy to see now why this never launched. (Score:3)

    by Aphexian ( 29497 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @11:26AM (#509643)
    Mmmmm....Sounds tasty....Hell, they could use the rockets to slow-roast the lamb on the way up...

  • Absurd (Score:3)

    by AndyMan! ( 31066 ) <chicagoandy&gmail,com> on Saturday January 13, 2001 @12:16PM (#509644)
    As a skydiver, this is quite possibly the single most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

    The article mentions jumping from a hight of 62 miles. That's interesting.

    The highest jump ever performed to date was done by a guy name Joe Kittinger back in the 60's. His jump from a weather balloon was from an altitude of about 103,000 feet - or 19.5 miles.

    The highest skydive EVER done was only at 19 miles, when this space article is talking about over 60 miles. Hrm. Yeah, I'll just line up for that one.

    Whenever you hear stories about NASA (the air force, actually) testing escape procedures during the moon program, well - this is it. Kittinger was an air force captain.

    It's interesting to note that Kittinger actually experienced a failure of his spacesuit during the jump. He landed with a (american) football sized right hand. He did not suffer any long term effects of the injury.

    Kittinger's jump was scheduled to be one of three jumps. It was not repeated because a: it was two dangerous, b: it was too expensive.

    Cheryl Sterns is going just a few thousand feet higher in her attempt. Read about it on Discover.com Should she succeed she will hold the record for the highest jump. To pay for her jump, Cheryl has organized the support of a great many sponsors.

    You'll often hear snipits about both Kittinger and Sterns having to wear drogue parachutes to help keep them stable. While it was true for Kittinger, it is not true for Sterns. Kittinger required a drogue parachute for one simple reason: they hadn't figured out how to maintain a stable body position at any altitude.

    Sterns will not require one, but may choose to use one. As she gets higher, obviously the air preasure gets smaller. The reduced air preasure will allow her to fall faster. The higher you go, the faster you fall. The faster you fall, the "wind" in your face increases. Your ability to control yourself is dependant upon the amount of "wind" in your face.

    IE - if you're at terminal velocity, you can control yourself. As the air preasure decreases, terminal velocity increases.

    Anyways, why is this absurd?

    First of all the cost. Skydivers are really going to pay for a DISPOSABLE TWO-PHASE SOLID FUEL ROCKET???? WTF??? ARE YOU NUTS?

    Secondly, it's a HELL OF A LOT cheaper to go to the altitude that Kittinger did or Sterns will. Why? weather balloons are a hell of a lot cheaper then two-phase rockets.

    Thirdly, the return on investment just isn't that great. I mean, you've tripple the altitude (19 miles vs 60), but you need to remember that the higher you go, the less air resistance, the faster you go. By tripleing the distance, I seriously doubt you'd get a significantly longer freefall.

    known estimated freefall times:

    10,000 feet: 40 seconds. [*]
    15,000 feet: 60 seconds. [*]
    26,000 feet: 100 seconds. [*]
    100,000 feet: 220 seconds!
    327,000 feet: ???

    * - from my personal log book.

    Anyways, I'm offering bets that we won't be seeing this anytime in our lifetime... or our kids... or our grandkids... It just doesn't make sense.

    _Am

  • Isn't one prize enough? (Score:3)

    by El Puerco Loco ( 31491 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @01:19PM (#509645)
    These folks are obviously trying to win both the X-Prize and a Darwin award in one go. Thats getting a little too greedy if you ask me.

    ^. .^
    ( @ )

    Soylent Foods, Inc.

  • Re:The new ValuJet (Score:3)

    by grantdh ( 72401 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @02:37PM (#509647) Homepage Journal
    I'm seeing new uses for building roofs. Executives could land exactly on the building they wanted to visit, rather than waiting for cabs and lugging luggage through security checkpoints. As a frequent flier, let me just say that this is one heck of an idea.

    "Thank you for flying air re-entry - you are about to touch down on your chosen building in downtown Boston. Your hand luggage is touching down in Manhattan and your underhold luggage is touching down in London, Paris and Prague. We hope you will appreciate the fact that your body is still intact. We look forward to trying to correct this oversight on future flights."

    :)

  • Tandem Jumping (Score:3)

    by grantdh ( 72401 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @02:45PM (#509648) Homepage Journal
    OK, so right now I can go and do a sky-diving tandem jump - I strap on to an instructor and off we go. I wonder if they'll have this facility (or equivalent) in this service. Hmmmm - given the joys of orienting/stabilising in zero-g, I'd prefer to do this the first time with an instructor.

    Of course, this immediately leads to:

    "Any ol' loser can be in the Mile High Club, but I joined the 50 Mile High Club!"

    Man, this thing just brings whole new meaning to the concept of re-entry :)

  • Sub-Orbital Skydiving... (Score:3)

    by systmc ( 92469 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @09:47AM (#509649) Homepage
    There was an article on here awhile back about a lady, Cheryl Stearns, who is planning on skydiving from over 31 miles up (165,000 ft). She'd reach upto 1.5 Mach coming back to earth.

    http://slashdot.org/articles/00/11/02/0411221.shtm l [slashdot.org]

  • Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:3)

    by patreides ( 210724 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @09:41AM (#509650)
    First, NASA didn't come up with that, the Air Force did in Project Manhigh.

    Second, it's not far-fetched, it worked! Twice! both paticipants survived the incident unharmed, and had NASA had chosen to inherit the technology it might have saved Challenger.

  • Um. parachute reentry? (Score:4)

    by griffjon ( 14945 ) <.GriffJon. .at. .gmail.com.> on Saturday January 13, 2001 @10:22AM (#509651) Homepage Journal
    so, how do baloons and parachutes work? Baloons work by being lighter than the air around them (hence, hot-air baloons work in cold air, helium (or hydrogen) baloons work in standard air. PArachutes work by using the resistance of the air to slow one down.

    Neither of these really work outside the atmosphere!

    I can only presume they only fly you up to a height that, while arguably 'in space' is not totally out of the atmosphere--just most of it.

    I think I won't be first in line for this. MAybe 100th.

  • Mildly OT: space.com (Score:4)

    by FroBugg ( 24957 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @10:28AM (#509652) Homepage
    I don't know if anyone's noticed this yet, but every article that shows up on the space.com slashbox get submitted for a story within a week. Couldn't we just hurry things up and funnel those directly to the frontpage?
  • Just like the woman who is attempting to set a world record for highest free fall. (She's starting from the edge of the atmosphere) She still has to deal with the issue of control. The atmosphere is so thin that she or these astronauts could very easily slip into non-recoverable flips and spins. Firing a hand-held rocket is useless if the astronaut is spinning, flipping, and falling two or three times a second. Trying to counter three axis of movement with one direction is next to impossible for a human. A computer maybe.

  • Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:4)

    by WolfWithoutAClause ( 162946 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @01:09PM (#509654) Homepage
    One or more members of the crew were alive and conscious for atleast a few tens of seconds after the accident. The compressed air was switched on, and pretty much that can only have been done by human intervention. The astronauts weren't wearing pressure suits during the launch, so gas can only be supplied at ambient pressure, which at that altitude would have been insufficient to maintain consciousness for very long. Pure Oxygen would have allowed longer survival, but not radically so as the disaster involved impacting the sea at 200mph, so being unconscious is probably preferable.

    However, there's no proof to what extent the vehicle leaked, as it was significantly damaged on impact, and all power was cut which stopped the audio recorder at the point when the spacecraft's tanks exploded.

    Possibly if the crew had been in a pressure suit and/or were supplied with oxygen, and they had a bail out system then they might have survived, but it's probably unlikely even then. Bailing out at supersonic speeds is nearly impossible even with ejector seats.

  • Ob skydiving post (Score:4)

    by SCHecklerX ( 229973 ) <greg@gksnetworks.com> on Saturday January 13, 2001 @11:03AM (#509655) Homepage
    This was a great song we sung when I was an active skydiver (my buddy was an excellent acoustic guitar player!) Ahh...the memories!

    For more humorous skydiving things, check out
    http://www.afn.org/skydive/humor/

    Blood on the Risers

    Sung to the tune of "Battle Hymn of the Republic"
    Revised and edited for sport by Little David

    First jumper on the wingstrut called the spotter as he looked
    Our hero now was fearless for he'd read Russ Gunby's book
    He jumped right out into the blast, his static line unhooked
    He ain't going to jump no more.

    Chorus:

    Gory, Gory, what a helluva way to die,
    Gory, gory, what a helluva way to die
    Gory, gory what a helluva way to die
    He ain't going to jump no more.

    He counted long, he counted loud, six thousand was his goal
    He tumbled out of stable and began a forward roll
    He spun out flat, began to dive and went out of control
    He ain't gonna jump no more.

    Chorus (above)

    The risers wrapped around his neck, connectors cracked his dome
    The lines were snarled and tied in knots around his skinny bones
    The canopy became his shroud, he hurtled to the ground
    He ain't gonna jump no more.

    Chorus (above)

    He pulled the handle on his reserve and threw it far away
    He tried to grab the skirt, but all his thumbs got in the way
    He threw it out all full of holes and then began to pray
    He ain't gonna jump no more.

    Chorus (above)

    The days he'd lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind
    He thought about the girl below, the one he'd left behind
    He thought about the medico's and wondered what they'd find
    He ain't gonna jump no more.

    Chorus (above)

    The ambulance was on the spot, its mighty siren wailed
    The medics rolled their sleeves and smiled as through the air he sailed
    For it had been a week or more since last a chute had failed
    He ain't gonna jump no more.

    Chorus (above)

    The drop zone coming fast, a hundred miles or more
    "I get his helmet and his boots," he heard a buddy roar
    He bounced around the runway in the welter of his gore
    He ain't gonna jump no more.

    Chorus (above)

    His pelvis crashed into his chest, his ribs poked through his side
    His helmet bounced a hundred feet, his head was still inside
    The ground crew stood there laughing as he rolled around and died
    He ain't gonna jump no more.

    Chorus (above)

  • The new ValuJet (Score:5)

    by Brento ( 26177 ) <brento.brentozar@com> on Saturday January 13, 2001 @09:44AM (#509656) Homepage
    Hey, this has incredible implications for the airline industry. Instead of paying ridiculous fares to get yourself somewhere you don't really want to be (the airport), you could just hop on a rocket, head for the stratosphere, and then guide yourself down to the general vicinity using your handy rocket-powered backpack.

    I'm seeing new uses for building roofs. Executives could land exactly on the building they wanted to visit, rather than waiting for cabs and lugging luggage through security checkpoints. As a frequent flier, let me just say that this is one heck of an idea.

    Not.

  • Us Crazy Canucks (Score:5)

    by tbo ( 35008 ) on Saturday January 13, 2001 @10:07AM (#509657) Journal
    ..this is how we plan to take over Earth [standonguard.com]. Our spaceborne regiments of hockey-stick armed toothless warriors will plunge towards the Whitehouse and burn it (again) just as the Presidential transition is taking place, eliminating both of your "great leaders". This will leave you with no choice but to bring back Jimmy Carter.

    Essentially leaderless, you Americans will be easy pickings for our elite spacedivers. Imagine the surprise advantage of having a regiment of troops show up out of nowhere. Once military objectives have been achieved, we will appropriate your radio stations, and subject you to Canadian content, 24-7. Those Americans who do not kill themselves after two continuous hours of Celine Dion will be given the option of slavery or becoming part of FROG (France Reconnisance Operations Group).

    Our next objective will be Buckingham Palace. A quick, effective strike on the Royal Family will destroy the tabloid industry and thus destabilize the world economy. Demoralized and destitute, the rest of the world shall fall beneath the crunch of our hockey skates.

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