IBM banks on Linux

jdaily writes "IBM's server group head said in an interview that IBM will Linux-enable all of its server hardware, from PCs to mainframes. " This is a pretty major endorsement... but I still want a Thinkpad running Linux with every component (including the freakin' modem!) working. You listening IBM?

posturing and hype...really?

Umm...not sure I agree here (and I work for IBM as well).

To be honest, nothing at IBM involves Linux. Everything IBM has done with Linux has been essentially an external posturing and hype

Let's see what I can rattle off.

1. DB/2 [ibm.com] for Linux.
2. MQSeries and ADSM clients for Linux
3. 24x7 support [ibm.com] for Linux on Netfinity Servers [ibm.com] through the IBM Helpcenters
4. GPL'd device driver for out ServeRAID PCI RAID Adapters [ibm.com] (and onboard versions on Netfinitys)
5. Domino Server
6. A fast JDK [jars.com] for Linux
7. Jikes [ibm.com] Java debugger
8. Code released to get it to run on an S/390
9. Websphere for Linux [ibm.com]
10. VisualAge for Java now runs on Linux [ibm.com]
11. IBM HTTP Server [ibm.com] for Linux (part of Websphere)

I could probably go on if I tried. Nothing at IBM involves Linux?

As to Lotus Notes...sadly (or blissfully, depending on your opinion of the product), I don't see a Notes client happening. And while we don't do this at IBM, there is nothing stopping a customer from enabling browser- and SMTP-access to Notes databases (including mail).

Gerstner's even gone so far as to put one of his golden boys, Irving Wladawsky-Berger, on Linux (NYTimes story here [nytimes.com], requires free login). Wladawsky-Berger has been credited with a lot of what got our Internet business going. For Gerstner to move him to Linux work is, IMO, a big deal.

Re:And my thinkpad 600...

I am running Linux-Mandrake 6.1 on my ThinkPad 600. It is just that there is no usable sound. I bought a Thinkpad without the DSP based proprietary modem that all the other thinkpads are crippled with.

APM - forget it. - No wait, you can get APM working but you have to leap tall buildings with a single bound to do it.

I have not tried the iRDA or USB ports (is there a usb port on it?).

Hot swap floppy? Anyone? Anyone? I did not have any success with that. I have been running Linux on notebooks since '95 and am used to jumping through hoops to do it (debian with floppies on a gateway nomad amd 486!).

When I do get sound working the signal level is remarkably anemic. And no, Booting Linux from DOS to get the sound driver loaded is just not an option.

ThinkPad

Virtually everything works on the new thinkpads already....... There is a Lucent WinModem driver now (which was deemed not important enough for a slashdot story when I submitted it), there is a sound driver for the new i series, the video works (although the accelerated driver is still under development and the developers at XF86 have been ignoring my emails). The DVD is usable but movies don't play in linux and that's no fault of IBM's. In any case, IBM is being VERY helpful in getting Linux up and running on Thinkpads. Mine runs great!

SNA for Linux (was: Re:Or open it)

I think it would be a good thing for IBM's customers if they would open up SNA, perhaps offer source for an SNA driver for the Linux kernel. That would allow for bridges between SNA and TCP/IP systems, and would give a nice migration path for people who want to move away from SNA in a slow, well planned fashion, as well as better functionality for people who are fine with SNA and want to stay there.

Already been done, by Turbo Linux. Token Ring and Ethernet drivers, TN3270/TN5250 servers, tech support, the whole nine yards. All GPL'ed. Check it out on http://www.linux-sna.org [linux-sna.org].

Cheers...

Re:Destroy SNA

Ummm.... OS/390 and OS/400 have had TCP/IP for a *long* time.... I was using a VM system in 1993 that had IP.

Perhaps you mean "why can't people re-write their legacy apps to use TCP/IP instead of SNA?". Which expands the scope of your complaint to encompass more than just IBM I think...

Re:Support vs Cost

I don't understand your point.

IBM has claimed to support Linux on their laptops for some time now. And, they've supported Linux on the PC Servers for a awhile also.

This announcement is about Linux EVERYWHERE, going UP their product line. We've heard about Linux on the Mainframes. Now, I guess this means AS/400s will get it too. And, it's a firm commitment on IBM's part to support it on RS/6000 machines.

I think IBM believes this will return their economics back to the mid 60's, when they dominated the market and gave away their Operating Systems when you purchased their hardware. The problem with that was that the DOJ found it to be anti-competitive and forced them to start selling the OS's unbundled from the hardware at "competitive" prices.

Nobody since then, with the exception of MS, has ever made much money selling Operating Systems. It's capital intensive and your market for new releases can dry up really fast.

I'm sure IBM realizes that they can't hope to make money in Operating Systems the MS way, so... IBM is deemphasizing the Operating System as a profit center. Let others (MS and the Free Software Community) deal with the headaches. IBM will still invest heavily in making sure the dominant OSs run well on their hardware, but they can greatly simplify their lives by letting others develop the "commodity" Operating Systems.

I think IBM also believes that their services business will pick up in supporting end users and Enterprises on Linux. IBM is quietly but aggressively pushing into Linux services. This services business is very lucrative.

Expect to see price hikes in other IBM Operating Systems as these get smaller market shares. Who knows, they might even Open Source some of the marginal Operating Systems, like OS/2.

-Jordan Henderson

Destroy SNA

If they are serious about the mainframe part, and about open standards, maybe it will be a good excuse to migrate all of those poor bastard banks, retail chains, and airline reservation systems that still run on (shudder) SNA. Everyone else runs TCP/IP ... why not IBM mainframes?

Imagine a world where us poor network engineers don't have to cope with screwed-up proprietary IBM network protocols in the data center. (starry-eyed sigh)

How to Open Source at IBM

A lot of the Linux stuff seems to be driven by single employees. Linux infects the engineers first. How these announcements get made is that the engineers ally with marketing(!) and bypass the lower managers who fear innovation and are too myopic to see the big picture.

The key to manipulating marketing people for your own evil goals is to drop a few buzzwords, "You know, more of our customers could use this driver if it were Open Source!" (Something you tried to slide by your manager and got shot down for) and marketing goes "Ooo! Open Source" in that typical Dilbert marketing tone. The other marketing people take up the battle cry and the next thing your manager knows, his second line is asking him why the driver isn't open source. Your manager then comes to you (having completely forgotten shooting you down the first time) and asks you (in that same irritable management tone as if it's your fault) why the driver isn't open source. You are ready for this question and say "Well I've been considering that and there's no real reason it couldn't be..." and Vola! Open source product.

Wait and see...

I work at IBM. Everyone outside of IBM tells me, "It must be great working at IBM with all the Linux stuff they do." To be honest, nothing at IBM involves Linux. Everything IBM has done with Linux has been essentially an external posturing and hype. Otherwise you would see Notes for Linux, Lotus Smartsuite for Linux, and Linux would run properly on RS6000 machines with Token Ring.

IBM might want everyone out there to use Linux, but until I see IBM using Linux, I won't believe it.

Bad Mojo

Stop complaining...

I'm going to try to respond to as many of the comments as I can: IBM is supporting Linux for 1 main reason - their customers are asking for it. They've never hidden that reason, and are quite open about it. Unlike most companies, by supporting it, they mean also contributing developers to it. Believe it or not, there are some _very_ experienced developers in IBM working exlusively on contributing source to Linux, Apache and maybe some other OS projects. This is costing IBM a lot of money, so it's not to be taken lightly. It's also a long term investment, because they don't make very much on Linix based projects right now.

"no one can use it on the Desktop until Lotus comes up with "Notes for Linux""

I don't know why Notes doesn't have a Linux client. I use it, and I can honestly say that I felt better before I used it. My personal opinion is that I hope that someone else comes out with a Notes client for Linux, because the Notes client I use is pretty awful.

"To be honest, nothing at IBM involves Linux. Everything IBM has done with Linux has been essentially an external posturing and hype"

Just because nothing you do has anything to do with Linux, doesn't mean that nothing _IBM_ does has anything to do with Linux. Come on - it's a huge organization. Most of the Linux work is being done in a grassroots way, and once it becomes big enough it becomes officially endorsed by the upper level Linux initiative. I'm hoping to soon be involved in a movement of my project to Linux. It's starting off unofficially (I'll be working on it in my spare time) but hopefully, it'll be part of everything else I do, and eventually officially endorsed. Why am I doing it? because it'll be a challenge, and it'll be fun to see what I'm working on run on Linux. My point is, if you don't see anything done with Linux, do something about it yourself. Even if you haven't been asked to do so.

"until I see IBM using Linux, I won't believe it"

Well, I've seen IBM using Linux, and I've only been here for a few months so I believe. Look around a bit more, you'll find it soon enough.

"don't have to cope with screwed-up proprietary IBM network protocols in the data center"

I'm not sure about this - wasn't there a time when that protocol was better than what else was out there? Didn't it make sense then?

"But what are they going to do to develop linux? Are they going to contribute to the community, or are they just going to make a quick buck on everyone else's work without having to worry about NT licencing fee"

IBM's Linux site [ibm.com] It might not say anything about the contributing developers, but at a conference CASCON, the person in charge of Linux projects at IBM talked about contributing back to the community at length.

"Who knows, they might even Open Source some of the marginal Operating Systems, like OS/2"

Just a note - OS/2 is not that marginal. Actually, it's doing well from what I hear. I don't know much more, but I doubt that it'll be open-sourced.. Disclaimer: I'm a relatively new employee for IBM, and I don't claim to speak for them at all. That's not what I'm paid for, and I might have things wrong, so it's a good thing I'm not getting paid for that.

Check out Alphaworks.ibm.com

IBM's doing some neat stuff and they're giving a lot of it away for free. They've got a bunch of XML tools, a Java IRC program that can be embedded in a web page, their own Java VM which may or may not be more advanced than the Blackdown one (I haven't checked lately) the Postfix sendmail replacement and REXX and Object REXX for Linux.

At least some divisions of IBM are "with it." I'm pushing to open source some of the UNIX stuff I'm doing for them and hope to start shoring up some areas where Linux has significant weaknesses if I can get the ball rolling on some of these projects.

Linux On the Thinkpad

CmdrTaco: I WANT A LINUX THINKPAD WHERE THE MODEM WORKS!

IBM: You'll get it when we're finished and if you ask us again, we'll delay it another week.




They are a threat to free speech and must be silenced! - Andrea Chen

too many misconceptions...

Disclaimer: I am an IBM employee

Um, I think my friend Mr. Malda has confused some /. readers. The announcement, as stated, applies to Enterprise Servers, which in IBM lingo means RS/6000, AS/400, and OS/3[7-9]0 machines.

As far as I can tell, this does not affect notebooks, PCs, and Netfinitys. They fall under a separate division of IBM and have their own "master plan". This is somewhat moot however, since Linux does run fairly well on these machines anyways.

As some readers insightfully pointed out, there are obvious motives for this. AIX, VMS, and VM are expensive to develop and time consuming to maintain, and IBM makes more money off the hardware anyways. IBM still has very strong hardware expertise, and the best reason to buy a RS6k is the hardware architecture (that and all the reliability aspects).

Don't have the misconception that IBM's enemy is Microsoft. Although we compete with them, our real competitor is Sun. Sun competes heavily in all the same areas we do, and Linux is the perfect way to help us fight the the workstation battle.

Since it is obvious to me that Sun has no intention of really supporting Linux until it begins to threaten their survival, I'm all for IBM and Linux partnership. This means IBM will contribute to linux kernel development for all of the products mentioned above, which should be quite valuable to Linus and Alan.

As for applications, that too falls under a different IBM division. I can't tell you if Notes or Smartsuite are coming for sure, but I wouldn't be suprised to see some changes in light of this announcement.

But where's the Lotus Notes Client on Linux?

I work in development for Big Blue and lots of us here love Unix in general and Linux in particular but no one can use it on the Desktop until Lotus comes up with "Notes for Linux". Now mind you no one actually likes Notes here, but if you want to get mail you don't have any other choice. I've gotten it to work using WINE but then its even more unstable than usual. Sigh.

Another story . . .

There's a bit on the NY times website [nytimes.com] about this too.

Personally, I'm not sure I really see the significance of this. Big blue likes linux. Okay, fine. They'll sell servers running linux. Neat. But what are they going to do to develop linux? Are they going to contribute to the community, or are they just going to make a quick buck on everyone else's work without having to worry about NT licencing fee. Don't get me wrong; it's great to see more linux servers and workstations in the world, and any exposure is good exposure, but if anyone has the means to help development, it's IBM.

Too many corporations are looking at linux as a finished product, rather than a work in progress. It's not.