SlashNET Forum With Jamie Zawinski 107
SlashNET is hosting a forum with Jamie Zawinski of Netscape, Mozilla, and XEmacs fame. It will take place at 5:00 PM EST (22:00 GMT) on Feb. 26, which is this Saturday, in #forum. If you'd like to submit a question for jwz [?] early, you can do so at the questions page. With all the projects that he has touched, this looks to be an interesting and informative time.
NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH NEWS (Score:3)
Re:Feb 19th? A little late, aren't we? (Score:1)
Feb 19th? A little late, aren't we? (Score:1)
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
<!-- Greetings, Lynx users. There is a reason this page doesn't use ALT tags
on the images. The reason is that the bozos responsible for both MSIE
and Netscape Confusicator 4.0 decided that they would display the ALT
tags of images every time you move the mouse over them -- even if the
images are loaded, and even if they are not links. The ALT attribute
to the IMG tag is supposed to be used *instead of* the image, not *in
addition to* the image.
This looks absolutely terrible, so I don't use ALT tags any more in
self-defense.
If they wanted to implemented tooltips, they should have used the TITLE
attribute to the A tag. That's in the HTML 1.2 spec and everything.
I had to decide between making this page look good for the vast majority
of viewers, or making it be readable by the miniscule minority of you
stuck in the 70s. Those of you in the retro contingent lost. Sorry.
-->
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:This isn't Ask Slashdot! (Score:1)
I guess this begs the question: why do we even put Announcements on here as stories, with comments?
It looks like these announcements contain useful information, so I don't want to filter them, but the comments will probably be necessarily duller. (Even taking into account the current sorry state of slashdot...)
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
Second, JWZ wrote his web page so it would have a certain consistent look in the current web browsers being used today. Some people don't even do that much. And this is just a splash page. Everything after that is mostly text and tables.
Third, once you realize his goals, you complain that he's going about it all wrong. So please, explain to me how in HTML you'd fix this. How do I get the cool big blinking green terminal font instead of using images?
Don't complain about JWZ, complain about the W3C instead. JWZ has tried to implement what they and Netscape want, and he ultimately left out of disgust. Also, I'm sure he could write better code for anything from terminals to X-terminals than we could unless we had a lot of practice. If he strikes you as arrogant, fine, but *I* sure couldn't write a VCR labeler in raw PostScript. But he's definitely not clueless.
Also, turning text into images is interesting, just like turning images into text is interesting. And annoying splash pages are pretty funny, as long as you take them at face value, and link to the content instead...
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:You Want To Know What I Think? (Score:1)
Regardless, JWZ does too have a slashdot account [slashdot.org], and he does post occasionally, when something interests him. I think we all understand if he doesn't post much now.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:You Want To Know What I Think? (Score:1)
Oh, I agree with you, JWZ is cool in my book, too. It's just that the Troll you were replying to wasn't Trolling, just Ranting.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Re:JWZ -- THE ORIGINAL GPL VIOLATOR (Score:2)
Isn't XEmacs derived from Lucid Emacs, which is the version that JWZ worked on?
It all sounded like a big misunderstanding to me.
(Hence, "Why cooperation with RMS is impossible"
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Hacks... (Score:3)
Everyone knows about xdaliclock ("morphing before morphing was cool"), and lately xscreensaver has gotten pretty decent too... (surpassing xlock in the number of supported nifty screensavers) One of my favorites is probably dadadodo, ("the Katz generator", for me...
Also, how's the nightclub stuff going? A welcome break from the fast-paced world of netscape development and net.stardom?
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
Why not a slashdot interview? (Score:3)
Realtime chat is better used for a social event, not a forum for learning something.
Transcript (Score:1)
Re:How hard is is to note the headline has changed (Score:1)
I thought they would make a story out of this?
"Slashdot forgets to pay its domain name bill. Bill Gates pays for it"
How hard is is to note the headline has changed? (Score:1)
A week late (Score:1)
Re:A week late (Score:1)
JWZ is an ass (Score:2)
Truly, this guy is not worth our attention.
--
Re:Netscape (or X) help (Score:1)
discussion: Netscape displays only empty pages for me.
Sometimes a banner will show up, but no text. I don;t
think it is a Java problem, I think it is motif. The
KDE browser does work for me. All the previous X 4.0 pre;s
had the same problem. I guess nobody in the X team ever runs
Netscape, or it would have been fixed by now. I have
reported this bug several times, but they never answer
their email, except for an automated respons. Too bloody
closed they are.
-----------------------------------------------
UNIX isn't dead, it just smells funny...
Re:This isn't Ask Slashdot! (Score:1)
>SARCASM<
It's a good thing that you finally decided to lay claim to the "Linus Torvalds." nick so that no brainless flaming immature wank of a troll would take it over and pester all of slashdot with his pointless invective! The slashdot system does work! And your post is proof!
>/SARCASM<
Netscape (or X) help (Score:1)
WTF am I doing wrong? Is this a netscape problem (same thing happens when running 4.5) or is this a X problem?
Re:Netscape (or X) help (Score:1)
Another person indicated that he/she had problems compiling the package. I have had problems that required me to tweak things. The docs are okay but are not idiot proof.
I'm finally able to compile the package on a RedHat 6.0 distro. However, I am not sure that the compile was successful.
Too bad that I missed the original /. story because I have had lots of problems with the pre-4 distro. Imlib with a -fbbpp 32 -cc4 option on a Matrox G400 card results in "interesting" results.
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
Anyway, jwz is a very informed guy.
Nothing says that he has to have his page accessable by anyone.
http://tv.cream.org/buchan certainly isn't!
Re:jwz? (Score:2)
He wanted his page to look the same no matter what browser was used.
Re:This isn't Ask Slashdot! (Score:1)
Re:Slashdot always down... (Score:1)
It is getting worse.
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
You use text. Then, if you really think that font looks k3wl, go into your web browser's preferences, and pick the big green terminal font. Or if you want other people to get to see that page in that font too, then you point to a style sheet which suggests that font.
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Re:jwz? (Score:1)
You're right, he doesn't have to cater to anybody. The problem is that he's not Joe Everyman. He's a high-profile web guy with credibility, reputation, etc. So his web site sends a message to Joe Everyman: "this is the right way to author a web site." That's a message I want to counter. I want Joe Everyman to know that when someone makes a web site like that, they open themselves to ridicule and disgust.
When a nobody does that sort of thing, I'll just hit the back button, or maybe laugh at them. But when their teachers and the people they look up to do it, I'll spit at 'em and show my contempt.
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Re:jwz? (Score:3)
Sheesh, this guy just doesn't get it. If those particular browsers do something stupid, is that really a reason to cripple your web page?
What an ass. I'm not stuck in the 70s, I'm stuck in the 200x's and the fastest internet connection that I can get for less than $200 per month is a 56k modem. AWeb blows the doors off of Netscape, MSIE, and Lynx all combined, but I still get pissed that I have to load images sometimes just to read something.
So I load the images, and what do I find? The images are just text! He's taken text and turned it into pictures! This is the epitome of the flash-over-subtance shockwave-using give-me-a-WYSIWYG-HTML-editor anti-technology point-missing clueless [censored] [censored] web-novice. That this guy has been involved with the Netscape/Mozilla stuff, explains a lot. It explains why mainstream web browsers have remained virtually unchanged and unimproved since 1994: because people like this have been guiding them.
[Lots of other indignant stuff deleted. I can just barely resist flaming this fuckhead to hell and back.] *vent* *vent*
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Re:Feb 19th? A little late, aren't we? (Score:1)
jwz? (Score:1)
Re:bad link (Score:1)
Re:maybe... (Score:1)
a pitty (Score:2)
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
If people like you are going to start venting and blatting about how people write the HTML code in personal websites, and rant on and on in a public forum, then maybe this world has gotten just a little to anal about stuff, and people should learn the first rule of society.
MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!!
CORRECT DATE: the 26th (Score:3)
Of course the /. story'll probably be corrected by the time I post this and it'll be moderated "redundant" but, hey, at least I tried to help my fellow slashdotters.
========
+++For-pay Internet distributed processing. [processtree.com]+++
Re: jwz [continuing the off-topic] (Score:1)
[ should have used the TITLE attribute to the A
[ tag. That's in the HTML 1.2 spec and everything.
ALT tags are required in HTML 4.0. Now, we all know that thanks to lazy browser implementation, HTML is nowhere near as strictly enforced as <pick your programming language>. I think it most definitely should be, but that's another thread altogether.
If you'd take the time follow through on the research you've already obviously done, you'd notice the following in the HTML 4.0 spec (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#a
'The alt attribute must be specified for the IMG and AREA elements. It is optional for the INPUT and APPLET elements.
While alternate text may be very helpful, it must be handled with care. Authors should observe the following guidelines:
Do not specify irrelevant alternate text when including images intended to format a page, for instance, alt="red ball" would be inappropriate for an image that adds a red ball for decorating a heading or paragraph. In such cases, the alternate text should be the empty string (""). Authors are in any case advised to avoid using images to format pages; style sheets should be used instead.
Do not specify meaningless alternate text (e.g., "dummy text"). Not only will this frustrate users, it will slow down user agents that must convert text to speech or braille output.'
So you see, while the ALT tag is required, you can simply put ALT="" and get around the crappy browser implementation, that is, until the browsers start requiring more intelligence of the people writing markup for the web.
Re: jwz [continuing the off-topic] (Score:1)
Jeez... whatadumbassIam...
god. (Score:1)
And what about blind people? There never going to see his 'beautiful' layout anyway. Wanker.
[ c h a d   o k e r e ] [dhs.org]
Argh! Saturday is hot date night, dammit! (Score:2)
--
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
Re:Netscape (or X) help (Score:1)
Self... (Score:1)
Re:This isn't Ask Slashdot! (Score:1)
Re:Self... (Score:1)
Ummm... (Score:2)
Re:JWZ -- THE ORIGINAL GPL VIOLATOR (Score:1)
This isn't Ask Slashdot! (Score:5)
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
From the fact that he purposely does not use ALT tags and went so far as to put an explanation for it in the source, I think it somehow became a personal issue with him. I think that there was a discussion (or perhaps more than one) about whether or not it should display the ALT tag. He probably won in the past, but eventually, someone went over/around/behind him to do it. If that's the case, some bitterness is quite understandable.
Re:Picture? (Score:1)
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
Log of session (Score:1)
Re:Picture? (Score:1)
And for the record, there are seldom logical conclusions made in the issuance of a question. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say here is... Fuck off. If you're going to be an asshole, please spare me the hassle of trying to make it look like someone else's doing.
Adios,
Wouldn't be anyway (Score:2)
You're thinking of "Interviews".
There's a difference.
Ciao
Re:jwz? (Score:2)
Well make sure to read the source for his explanation. You may have read it but for those who didn't bother:
<!-- Greetings, Lynx users. There is a reason this page doesn't use ALT tags on the images. The reason is that the bozos responsible for both MSIE and Netscape Confusicator 4.0 decided that they would display the ALT tags of images every time you move the mouse over them -- even if the images are loaded, and even if they are not links. The ALT attribute to the IMG tag is supposed to be used *instead of* the image, not *in addition to* the image.
This looks absolutely terrible, so I don't use ALT tags any more in self-defense.
If they wanted to implemented tooltips, they should have used the TITLE attribute to the A tag. That's in the HTML 1.2 spec and everything.
I had to decide between making this page look good for the vast majority of viewers, or making it be readable by the miniscule minority of you stuck in the 70s. Those of you in the retro contingent lost. Sorry.
-->
Time Travelling? (Score:1)
hmm, sorry to bash a typo
Stuffed Animal Mozilla (Score:2)
mmmmmmozillllla
Re:How hard is is to note the headline has changed (Score:1)
Re:Picture? (Score:2)
Re:"listen to drivel..." (Score:1)
Re:JWZ -- THE ORIGINAL GPL VIOLATOR (Score:1)
To me it looked like the whole Ludcid Emacs/GNU Emacs mess was about communications problems between RMS and Lucid. And difference in opinions about what features should be implemented.
And for the record. GNU Emacs has used ideas (and possibly code) from Lucid Emacs for a long, long time. And the other way around of course.
Re:First Poem (Score:1)
General IQ (Score:1)
Re:jwz? (Score:1)
Unfortunately, not only did he not include ALT tags, which would just leave links like "gruntle.gif" (which I actually think would be kinda cool, given the theme of his page), he put blank ones in. This makes it completely impossible to use the page in Lynx; the links don't even appear. If he doesn't want tooltips, he should just not include an ALT tag. The graphical browsers will then leave him alone.
However, as someone said, this is his page. He can make whatever kind of statement he wants. If you really want in to his site, you can view the source in Lynx and do some URL hackery. Which is the TRUE SPIRIT OF SLASHDOT, is it not?
Re:First question :-) (Score:1)
Re:My Question... (Score:1)
Picture? (Score:1)
Are there any better ones?
Re:Picture? (Score:1)
Re:Picture? (Score:1)
If you're going to be that pedantic, at least make sure you aren't leaving gaping holes in your logic. I think the meaning I was attempting to convey was clear enough.
Cheers,
Tr011Thr4sh3r
Re:You Want To Know What I Think? (Score:1)
This guy, being as high profile as he is, is definately not an attention hoarder. He stays out of the limelite, and does not treat us to the kind of self promotion of, say, ESR.
Signal 11? Are you on crack? JWZ does not post on slashdot to my knowledge. He's too cool for that, and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way.
Re:Picture? (Score:1)
'nuff said
Re:You Want To Know What I Think? (Score:1)
User id 775. That's him all right - I stand corrected.
And I see what you mean about "Karma whore on a higher plane" though I must disagree. JWZ is cool in my book. Eccentric and highly opinionated, but cool nontheless.