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Comment Re: Debian Spiral (Score 1) 220

I am a person who's had two systems encounter must-revert-Jessie-to-Wheezy problems and another which will get reverted or BSDed when I can afford the office downtime.

That's what prompted me to stop by and argue with your "that don't actually happen" problem. And then I read your "despite numerous complaints (and valid concerns), is causing all so rts of headaches and isn't perfect".

How are you reconciling those two statements in your head?

I've heard heaps of "constructive input" - like, go back to text logs, don't hook everything directly into systemd, keep the separate functionalities like firewalling and su out of systemd.

I get the impression that a lot of your post, like most of the people who say systemd is great and the haters are just haters, just doesn't make a lot of sense.

I get that you're trying to unite the people and constructively move forward, likening the entire situation to a political issue (I am from a country unaffected by Obamacare). But the problems so far are that a) you're devaluing the experienced people who are having really big problems with systemd and b) suggesting that we choke down those issues and keep moving forward. WITH systemd.

Comment Re:Drop origin of life (Score 1) 591

Yes. Just drop the topic. Just drop the discussion or thinking about anything that might be at all controversial; or inspire somebody to begin studying it closer; or give them any kind of background, skills or concepts which would enable them to study it or anything else even vaguely controversial.

Yes. Let's just stop teaching things 'cause it gives us squirmy feels.

Yes. Let's just stop any consideration of anything that can't be reproduced in a lab (which evolution can be and has been) or examined first-hand.

Yes. Just skip the chapters. Yes. Just skip. Just skip. Skip skip skip. ...

I regret having just eaten and then coming to read this. The content of your post makes me feel physically ill. A world dominated by attitudes and policies like this would be a wretched disgusting sinkhole sliding further back into barbarism. What you've suggested and described should be treated as an obscenity. This is nothing short of despicable.

I feel sorry for the other student who had enough of a brain to ask such a question of a course of action so approved by you and the teacher. I hope that other student went on to bigger, better, brighter things than that class and attitude. Like, say, a knuckle-sized lump of coal.

Comment Upgraded painlessly without forced downtime? (Score 1) 442

I had a home server on Wheezy (or, should I say, "stable". Wow, not gonna make that mistake again). I did a dist-upgrade before I'd read the release announcement and spent five minutes wondering why my home page no longer came up.

"What do you mean, 'Please upgrade your kernel before or while upgrading udev'? What do you mean, 'can't install linux-image-amd64', udev is broken'?" What the hell happened to my beautiful Wheezy -

- oh, crap, what do you mean, Jessie with systemd is the new stable ALREADY.

I also tried Pikoro's instructions above twice in a VM at work; *twice*, got the installer failing on me at the "Installing Software" step. And no hint as to what went wrong. So screw it, I thought. I'll install off the live image with all the defaults including that f'ed up systemd, rather than off the xfce-image.

"Oh, look. Broken a third time at the 'Installing Software' step. Using no online repositories (behind a work firewall with a corporate authenticator I can't use in the install environment) with the default first DVD image. And it still broke in the 'Installing Software' step." ... so, my hat off and some deep respect to Pikoro and those who got Jessie to install without the systemdevil, let alone *with the ordinary defaults*. I'm just glad I got an archived copy of 7.8.0, because:
- an on-the-metal upgrade FAILED to upgrade and has forced every service offline
- two VM installs with the xfce-cd, trying to keep systemd out failed
- a third VM install with the first full DVD, trying to keep out systemd failed
- and a fourth VM install, with the live disk image and accepting all the defaults failed.

Damn you RedHat, damn you everyone who brought systemd to light.

And damn you Debian, for going along with this - and pushing me the biggest Debian lie I've ever seen - "upgraded painlessly without forced downtime".

Call my evidence anecdotal, call it a data point in a shifting window. I call it the next day I can spare re-installing Debian 7.8.0, excluding every Jessie/Stable repository and repartitioning a 20W machine I set up over four years ago so that these upgrade stuff-ups will never necessitate me restoring from backup again.

Thanks for Wheezy, Debian. I hope against, but do believe that's going to be the last time I thank the Debian project again and hope like crazy Devuan does a good fork.

Comment Re:explain? (Score 1) 647

The difficulty with all of the arguments, is that a significant proportion of them are emotionally based, rather than technical, but all are couched in a technical setting,

That's interesting. What I saw just there was technical arguments, summarised in a comprehensible, mostly non-technical fashion.

I am happy to have systemd on some machines, and happy to not have it on others.

I'm not. Given your situation, I'd now have to know two init systems to manage all the machines which happen to be running the same operating system.

With regards to this whole topic, the best bet when you see a discussion unfold is sit back with popcorn and watch either sides arguments dissolve into logical fallacy.

And these forkers didn't. As a result, the people who DO want systemd won't have their choices forced upon the people who DON'T want systemd.

I started as a desktop user who was learning network and system admin. Now I have my lap/desktops and a NAS and a server which I run myself rather than cloud-insanity (and someday I hope my job will involve me administering something other than Windows). But systemd has already impacted me negatively even on just the desktops.

Comment Re:You keep using that word. (Score 1) 411

Hi. I'm not American. But my country has been in a formal alliance with America since about 1951, about 20 years before I was born.

I'm an IT guy. The closest I've ever been to any government-type work is when I spent most of 9 months working with the State (not Federal) Government office as a part of a Master's-by-Research degree at looking into whether Open Source software might possibly be feasible for such office use. The research was not completed, however. Now I just work back at the same university where I was doing the research study. At the moment, I'm working in the IT security team.

So: am I "foreign"?

Do I deserve to have my communications tracked?

If I send/receive encrypted e-mail to/from one of my colleagues who got me into the habit of sending such an e-mail, which basically consists of bitching about our (public, education-sector) boss, then do I really need to have that e-mail stored on an NSA server until they expend the resources necessary to crack my GPG? Do I really need to be considered guilty before there's been any kind of assessment as to exactly what I'm hiding from whom?

Or, to put it slightly more crudely - do you think the definition of "foreign" makes any damn difference to the great majority of the Internet (read: world) who are inappropriately impacted by all this NSA bull?

Comment Re:SLOP syndrome (Score 1) 193

> I suggest that some people need to grow up, and realise that the West is the absolute paragon of virtue compared to what Russia, China and Muslim countries are doing.

> I shudder to think what will happen to the world when the baton of world domination is handed to these despots. I know the techno-libertarian crowd will be celebrating.

That Russia is, as you put it, "the Devil Incarnate" and America opposes Russia in certain areas does not make America "the absolute paragon of virtue compared" (and you might want to think what "absolute" and "compared" mean).

Instead, let's look at it this way: does the average Russian/American have any reason or want to harm the average American/Russian? No?

Maybe the Good/Evil split should be viewed along different lines: does the average American/Russian have their lives made any harder by the American/Russian government, to the benefit of that government? Really? Well, maybe the American/Russian people might be viewing the government the way you think one "country" views another.

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