Amazing to see this marked as Troll. As if it’s Trollish to note that the US has attacked Iran and is still engaged in a hot war six months down the line, with more bombings this very weekend, or Trollish to note that US OEMs have had huge bailouts repeatedly over decades. These things happened, you butthurt idiots.

It's not just that America has no cheap cars. It's that the cheap cars are unbelievably shitty by comparison with what you can get for the price. The 2026 Zeekr X starts at about 150k yuan in China, which is about 25k USD.

Look at what you get for the money: AWD, 489hp and 573Nm, 0–62mph time of 3.7 seconds, heated, ventilated and massaging front seats, a 14.6-inch central touchscreen, 24.3-inch head-up display, 13-speaker Yamaha audio system, panoramic roof, heat pump, wireless phone charging, 5G connectivity and driver-fassistance systems using cameras and radar.

You can see the global version here: https://www.zeekrlife.com/glob...

Yes, PPP means this isn't an entry level car. But even the entry-level cars have fucking fridge/heater compartments.

I think that's really focusing on only a small part of what makes Chinese cars attractive to buyers. What lots of buyers value is a large amount of amenity for the money. I mentioned this up above, but the upgraded ATTO 3 from BYD was released three years after the first version. The boot (trunk) went from 440 litres to 490 litres plus a 100 litre frunk, the rear suspension went from 4 to 5 link, the charging went from 110 to 220kW, the 0 to 60 went from 7.3 to 3.9 seconds, the range went from 261 to 316 miles, etc. This is a little compact crossover, about the size of an HR-V (the HR-V is 4.4 inches longer, but -- natch -- has a shorter wheelbase because it's not packaged as well). It's not at all fancy.

In China, there's a meme for what car buyers now expect: "Fridge, colour TV, big sofa". It sounds like a joke, till you look at what's actually available there, eg the Neta L (dual-door refrigerated/heated fridge, two 15.6-inch screens, and fancy seats for 150k yuan); the Yuan Plus, which is actually the ATTO 3 equivalent in China, which has a cooling/heating fridge, heated seats and lounge-style interior for 100k yuan); and the Dongfeng 008, which has the same for 200k yuan.

I don't know about you, but if *I* could get a car with Chinese levels of amenity, I absolutely would. I can get a Chinese car here in the UK, but frankly we get the dregs compared to what's available over there.

Here's an older example: https://youtube.com/shorts/pYW...

The irony of this is that the range, quality and value of the cars available in China to Chinese consumers vastly -- vastly -- outstrips what the Chinese OEMs export to the rest of the world. If Chinese OEMs were *really* "cheating", they'd sell many more types of car overseas, and their prices would be lower abroad than at home (which is the literal definition of dumping, by the way).

They've not progressed by cheating. They've progressed by improving their cars. Look at what BYD did with the ATTO 3 in just three years.

The old ATTO 3 had a 60.5kWh LFP Blade battery with a range of 261 miles and max 110kW charging, was front-wheel drive, produced 204PS and 310Nm, and could do 0–62mph in 7.3 seconds. It used their in-house e-Platform 3.0, with a cell-to-pack battery, had four-link rear suspension, 440 litres of boot space and no frunk. It was a competent family EV, but its charging speed, performance and packaging were relatively conventional.

By contrast, the new ATTO 3 has a 74.8kWh Blade 2 battery, 316 miles of range and 220kW charging on an 800V architecture. It moves to rear-wheel drive, with up to 449PS and 560Nm, cutting 0–62mph to 3.9 seconds. The battery is now integrated into the body structure using cell-to-body technology, the rear suspension is upgraded to a five-link setup, boot space rises to 490 litres and there is now a roughly 100-litre frunk. The car is basically the same size, but BYD has substantially upgraded the battery, charging system, drivetrain, chassis and packaging.

I loved my Renault Zoes, and they saw a big improvement in three generations, but nothing on this scale.

China competes on integration and *fast innovation cycles* for auto manufacturing. The rate of improvement is just astounding. Ask an AI of your choice to list major drivetrain advances that one of the big Chinese marques has made over the last, say three years. It's jaw-dropping. And it's not all charging speed improvements, although they're a big thing. Look at what's been done with the motors. Heck, look at what the cabins look like!

If you believe China will collect this data from US citizens, why do you not believe they're already doing so from all the Chinese-built devices that US citizens already use, which in the case of phones and computers alreay provide much richer datasets than you can get from a car?

Why would China put kill switches in cars and not in all the other electronic devices Americans already have from China, including phones, printers, computers, alarm systems, medical systems, industrial control systems, etc etc? None of this makes sense to me. Either they're so bad you can't buy anything complex from them, or they're not.

They’re less performant on some metrics — gravimetric density, principally. But they are better on others: cheaper, better cold weather performance, tolerate being at zero state of charge, and more durable in terms of charge cycles.

We live in exciting times for many chemistries, from Li to Na to solid state.

This is such a mad analysis. Out of China and the US, which country is currently in the middle of a hot war to protect its energy industry? US automakers only exist because they’ve been bailed out to the tune of billions of dollars repeatedly over decades.

Gravimetric density is indeed a big deal, which is why it was such a striking thing when Gotion, one of China’s major battery makers which is part-owned by VAG (VW’s parent), announced their high performance version of their Gnascent sodium battery has a density of 261Wh/kg, which is comparable to high end LFP and many NMC batteries.

https://cleantechnica.com/2026...

Gotion is no Donut. This is a lot more real than that nonsense was.

Except the cars are much uglier.

This stuff is so completely bonkers.

Walnut trees in Britain is a pretty niche example. What made you think of that? Genuine curiosity on my part. They are, like many fruit and nut trees, subsidised, but I’ve never heard it raised in this way before.

1 Sodium
2. This problem exists today, except it’s an issue of a continuous flow of fuel, not an investment in a one-time stock of an asset like a battery

They are trying to construct their own bubble. Wildly insular.

This suit makes clear that these guys, both the devs and the regulators, all focus on the interests of developers above the interests of consumers. I don’t want apps tracking me. I just don’t. These fuckers don’t want me to have a say in the matter. They can all fuck off.