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Comment Re: Uhh... Cool? (Score 1) 152

No, it's called "Evidencing The Fact That It's A Widespread Shorthand" (in specific, among Wikipedians, where it's in official terminology as well), a widespread usage that was falsely claimed to not exist.

(I'll also take this opportunity to note: rage about the use of shorthand on "copyvio", but not a word about "algos")

Comment Re: Uhh... Cool? (Score 3) 152

Shorthand should be something that other people actually use

Okay Felicia.

TL/DR: "copyvio" is the Wikipedia-standard shorthand for copyright violation, used both in direct speech and in official templates. If a person says "copyvio", they've probably spent a lot of time hanging out at Wikipedia, where copyright violation is a frequent topic of discussion.

Comment Re:Uhh... Cool? (Score 1) 152

Oh, also, as pointed out further downthread, any LLM with a training cutoff before the license change date is pretty much assured to be okay for use in a cleanroom implementation. Copyright holders cannot make retroactive copyright changes, and open source licenses generally explicitly grant rights in perpetuity anyway. The threat would be new code. But since the cleanroom side has never seen that new code (it was released after the training date), it remains untainted. And training cutoffs generally lag model releases by many months, so not only should all current models be in the clear, but most next-gen models as well (subject to cutoff date verification, and various kinds of nuance such as avoiding RAG, potential post-training contamination, etc - but there's easy ways to guarantee these aren't problems that are present)

Comment Re:Uhh... Cool? (Score 3) 152

First off, you can always just use a LLM with an open training dataset (OLMo, Pythia, etc) to prove that the data isn't in it, and have that handle the "clean" side of the equation.

Secondly, you are under the mistaken impression that a LLM that has been exposed (which, BTW, does not mean "memorized", or even any rough understandings of the workings - ask the LLM (ideally an abliterated one to avoid refusals) to reproduce the original code verbatim, it'll almost certainly fail badly) automatically fails in such a suit. It does not. There is no such thing as "homeopathic copyright contamination". Copyvio requires substantial similarity. LLMs will tend to have common algos memorized, but those are the very things that tend to be simultaneously not copyrightable.

The cleanroom is an evidentiary shield, not a pillar of copyright law. If you can prove that the cleanroom team had no access to the original, then you can prove that they didn't copy it, and potentially get summary judgement. If you can't prove that, that doesn't mean that it's not copyvio, it just means that you instead have to focus on substantial-similarity defenses. Access without substantial similiarity is not copyvio. If you read an open-source codebase, close it, and then later write a new program purely on your own that looks nothing like the original, you had "access", but still did not infringe. The same applies to LLMs - but even moreso, because humans are much better at learning from brief, limited exposures to content than LLMs are. A court will usually apply an "Abstraction-Filtration-Comparison" test - they break the code down into layers (source code, parameters, architecture, algos, etc) (abstraction), remove everything that copyright law does not protect (ideas and common algos, things where there's only a limited number of ways to possibly do it, etc) (filtration), and then compare the creative expression that remains to see if there exists sufficient similarity to count as infringement. It is highly unlikely that a LLM-implemented version will fail that.

(That said, you're talking about a long, expensive legal battle if you get to that point, so you obviously prefer to be able to get summary judgement if you can)

Comment Re:Uhh... Cool? (Score 2) 152

What the GP described is known as a cleanroom implementation, and it's perfectly legal, and has been done many times in ways that have been upheld by the courts. The dividing line, by and large, is that the documentation has to be flexible enough that there's multiple potential ways it could be implemented, that you're not just transforming a code flow into "text pseudocode" and back. It doesn't matter if, by chance, it looks like the original - only that there were multiple means by which it could have been done under the specification produced.

There's also some various process-specific factors you need to manage - full separation of the teardown and cleanroom-implementation teams, a judge filtering all communications (with an audit trail) back and forth between the teams to make sure that they meet legal standards of separation, things of that nature. But a competent LLM can help set up the process and run each agent for each role in its own isolated context.

Comment Re:Surprised (Score 1) 198

predicted that it would be the greatest embarrassment in the history of automobiles.

Said about every single Tesla model and non-vehicle product, and about the company as a whole, every time, by millions of people, for its entire history. That's hardly a badge to pin on yourself unless you were also saying that the Roadster, Model S, Model X, Model 3, and Model Y, and grid batteries would be massive successes.

Also, don't confuse "putting down a refundable $100 reservation" with "prognosticating about the future". Re: prognostication about the future, that's not "putting down a refundable reservation on a product you can choose to buy or not based on its stats when it comes out", that's making investments in the market. And back in the day, I made a TON of money long on $TSLA, predicting the overall company's success. How much, perchance, did you make shorting it, like millions of people did, talking doom and gloom about how every vehicle model was going to be the greatest embarrassment in the history of automobiles?

Comment Re:Surprised (Score 5, Interesting) 198

There was plenty of interest in the beginning**, and the electric truck market really doesn't have good competition for a given price point. The problems were:

1) The price shot up heavily
2) The stats and capabilities went down
3) Musk went hard-right, and rightly or wrongly the Cybertruck became seen as a symbol of being MAGA.

These things together pushed away ~90% of prospective buyers. Combined with the fact that the Cybertruck's production line was unique, as well as being a generation back, and it made it hard for Tesla to justify owning it.

** - Including from me. Beyond the stats-for-the-price point as introduced, I liked the engineering behind the design. If you want to make it rugged, that implies a thick skin. So make it an exoskeleton to bear the internal loads. Want to maximize strength while minimizing the mass? Resist torsional loads with a braced cantilever design (the triangular rear). Which, with a retracting tonneau, creates a very long, gradual rear taper, allowing detached air (from the angles necessitated by an exoskeleton) ample time to retract and minimizing the drawn wake. On and on - from an engineering perspective, there was a lot of great stuff that appealed to me. But little of that ended up staying. The final design hangs the (thinner) exterior metal onto a frame just as dead mass. The big raft of changes led to mass growth, cost growth, and range decline (despite advancing battery tech and pricing). And of course, I'm not super eager for Elon to end up with any of my money these days. Another family member had also been interested, and also cancelled.

Comment Re:My religion also requires I be paid for nothing (Score 2) 71

Why not here? Because for starters, humanism isn't a religion (and I say that as a humanist). It's a philosophical stance within atheism. And atheism is the absence of religion** (it's literally right there in the name), not a religion. You can't claim "religious" exemptions as an atheist. What this person actually wants is a philosophical exemption, akin to, say, a vegetarian wanting an exemption from having to cook meat at a restaurant or whatnot.

** - Well, except for those atheists who worship Athe.

Comment Re:I don't that means what you think it means (Score 1) 165

Agreed. If you don't know what you're doing it's hard to even ask for the right thing or know what's possible. For example: I'm currently developing a system that uses a local AI to help debug internal issues. The initial incarnations of it were very slow to start up each command; clearly, it wasn't doing proper KV caching and was having to prefill every turn; it required patches on the llama.cpp fork and our API wrapper, and also adjusting the system prompt to keep variable content at the end. But if you have no idea about KV caching issues, how do you even know something is wrong with the backend, let alone what to tell the AI to fix? You'll end up deciding you need to upgrade the GPU instead.

(That said: "lovingly handcrafted" code is a hilarious phrase that should give any developer who's ever worked on a big corporate software project the giggles, and also, these software devs are clearly people angry at knowing they're going to be let go looking for revenge by badmouthing their boss to the press)

Comment Re:Pluto is a planet (Score 2) 70

Thank god for that. It was hard enough to learn 9 (now 8) planets at school. Can you imagine having to learn all the names if the hydrostatic equilibrium definition held?

Since when does science work by a standard of "what is easy for children to memorize lists of"? Do we say "There are 8 rivers in the world, and all others are dwarf rivers, which really aren't rivers" to make it easier on kids? Do we say "There are 8 bones in the human body, and all others are dwarf bones, which don't really count as bones"?

That's not how science works. Science is focused on practical distinctions about how things developed and their physical properties relative to each other. Hydrostatic equilibrium is a very practical definition. The process of undergoing relaxation induces metamorphism and releases heat, altering bodies. You go to non-equilibrium bodies if you want to study the primordial makeup of our solar system. You go to equilibrium bodies if you want to study tectonics, volcanism, non-primordial chemistry, and search for past or present life. The boundary could not be more meaningful. Yes, there is a bit of fuzz between equilibrium and non-equilibrium, but the same applies to pretty much all scientific fields.

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