We are either headed face first into a 1930's style bubble, or the Singularity.

RFK was right! Measles good!

I'm Waspman, thanks to radiation, my wanker is now the size of a wasp.

Bullocks. I'm not demanding anything at all. What I'm doing is refusing to hate people based merely on the circumstances of their birth and calling out the hypocritical "justifications" of those who've chosen to do so.

Also, just to be clear:

I don't give a rat's arse which party you support.
I *do* care about what policies you support.

** uncommon

Maybe not blaming people on a self-help site would have helped them not to radicalize

They self-radicalized long before the word "incel" entered the common parlance. Which is what happens when you create an echo chamber of a bunch of angry lonely men and base post visibility on engagement.

Why do I care what the UN's preferred wording is?

You made a false claim about the origin of the terminology. You should care about being factually accurate.

The correct and proper legal term in the USA is "illegal alien"

It literally is not. That term, while it exists in the US code, is incommon. The most common term in the US code is just "alien", and when specifically discussing the undocumented, "Unauthorized Alien". I didn't include a discussion of US code just so you could pretend it didn't exist.

And I'm sorry if you don't like being called out for wanting cheap, exploitable labor to pick your damn cotton,

I'm struggling to understand what your argument is. You seem to be declaring that any job involving cotton is inherently slavery, even if the people are free to come and go as they choose and are paid for their labour. If that's not your argument, then please clarify, as otherwise, I'm baffled.

Democrats want cheap labor they can exploit.

Democrats (aka, the party that is constantly pushing for bills for higher minimum wages and mandates for better working conditions, while the Republicans do the opposite, pushing deregulation) want above all a regularized system with rules and oversight to prevent abuses. Most also want a path to citizenship for people who work for a given number of years with no criminal record (7 years is a common number suggested, though even decades would be better than "never"), though this is secondary to the primary issue. What Democrats do not want is a masked gestapo kidnapping people who want to be in the US working, from in front of their children, and throwing them into "Alligator Alcatraz".

These things are the exact same thing that the immigrants themselves want. You can't sit here and pretend to be an advocate for immigrants when arguing for policies that they are opposed to and opposing policies that they support.

...with those Satan-horn things pass by each other and knocks one kilter? Does it get confused and careen into a housing tract? The clearance looks small.

If we want the public to trust science to the extent that it's trustworthy, we need to make sure they understand it first."

= We B Fukt

> You're scared of Trump, your neighbors are scared
> of losing their jobs or seeing their wages cut
> because Democrats want to import cheap, illegal,
> labor. One of you has a legitimate concern.

Oh, what jobs are they scared of losing? I don't see trump supporters giving up their cushy suburban McMansions en masse to go live in a bunkhouse in Salinas and pick lettuce for 14 hours a day. When that does happen, THEN you can get back to us about the "threats" to people's jobs. And no, my neighbors are NOT afraid of losing those jobs because they are not seeking and have never sought those jobs. They (and I) don't want to move to Salinas and pick lettuce any more than you people do. We just don't pretend that we do in order to conjure an excuse to hate brown people.

Well, guess what? No immigrant ever scooped six figures of value out of my 401(k) and IRA accounts. Your dear leader did that in less than a week with his little "liberation day" stunt. Depending on the rate of return over the years going to take at least half a decade for me to make good that money. And since I already contribute the the maximums, that's a half-decade I will have to delay my retirement. My other accounts took a similar beating. And I very seriously doubt that your shitstack in chief is going to write a check to make me whole for what he took away.

So yeah, you can fuck right off with your "legitimate concern" bullshit. No immigrant working out in a field somewhere I'll probably never see has ever harmed me. Thanks to the fine folks at Intuit, I can quantify how much dear leader has harmed me, right down to the last fucking red cent.

First, why not just admit you want slaves to pick your cotton?

I had no idea that slaves were free to go at any time. And if your concern is abusive employers, then the solution to that is regulation and oversight.

Undocumented migrants to the US go through great risk to get employment opportunities that, while terrible from the perspective of US norms, are far more than they have available at home. That's why they come in the first place. What they DON'T want is, just to pick a random example, a masked gestapo kidnapping them in front of their children and throwing them into something its creators lovingly refer to as "Alligator Alcatraz". They came to work.

Second, they are a net drain on the economy because they send more money back home than they add to GDP.

Asserting things flatly in contradiction with the research does not make it true. Once again, to repeat: the economy is not a zero-sum game. Labour creates wealth; it does not redistribute from some fixed pool. Their labor creates wealth in the US, but they are given only a tiny fraction of that. And on that they pay taxes for services that they are barred from receiving. From the pittiance they have left, the majority furthermore gets spent within the US.

Total remittances from the US amount to $98B; this is a mixture of remittances from undocumented workers and documented. Documented immigrants are vastly more common than undocumented (14,1% of the US population vs. 3,2%) and tend to earn much higher salaries (though they remit a smaller % of them), so only a relatively small fraction of that (a few tens of billions) is from undocumented workers. In terms of the share of the workforce, 6,7% of the workforce is undocumented and 18,6% are all immigrants combined. Keep these numbers in mind when you look at the next number: the US economy is 30 TRILLION dollars. E.g. the value that undocumented workers remit is in the ballpark one-thousandth of the economy, yet they're 1 in 15 workers. The value that all immigrant workers remit is in the ballpark of 1/300th of the economy, and they're one in five workers. And remember that it is work that creates wealth.

There simply is no comparison: the amount that undocumented workers contribute to the economy is vastly, by orders of magnitude, more than they earn, let alone remit.

Third, the correct and legal term is "illegal alien". "Undocumented migrant" is a BS euphemism invented by left-wing reporters to support a political agenda.

"Undocumented migrant" is not modern, did not originate in the US, and has its roots in academic and international discourse. It is the preferable language of the UN since 1975, aka half a century. Alien" is a perfectly valid legal term, although "illegal alien" is rarely used in the US code (the US has a wide range of alien categories referenced in the code, including "resident and nonresident", "immigrant and nonimmigrant", "asylee and refugee", etc aliens). "Unauthorized alien" is probably the most common adjective phrase, although just "alien" is more common still (for example: 18 U.S.C. 1325, "Unauthorized Entry by Alien"). "Migrant" and "alien" are not synonyms, and require unique terminology - migrant is much more specific, and "migrant worker" more specific still. "Illegal" is malformed terminology and commonly inaccurate. For example, a large fraction of people who are in the US without authorization did not enter the country illegally, but rather overstayed visas. It is also illogical to refer to a person as illegal, rather than an act.

(This is also a good time to drop a reminder that being in the US without authorization is generally a civil, not criminal, violation)

Also, just to be clear, if you wrote your post coming from a personal perspective:

Don't define yourself relative to others. If you do, you will never be happy, in a relationship or out of one. I mean, sure, you may get the initial "sugar rush" from a new relationship, but you will be doomed to destroying it due to overdependency on the other person for your happiness and self-esteem, which is something that cannot be sustained. You need to be able to find happiness and respect for yourself on your own.

But if that's not about you, then just let this stand as an aside to anyone who needs to hear it.

Nobody means "single men" when they talk about incels. Incels - to both the general public, and to self-identified incels, refers to "...member[s] of an online subculture of mostly male and heterosexual[2] people who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one [who] often blame, objectify, and denigrate women and girls as a result."

To be clear, the movement did start as a website and mailing list that was basically just for people who were chronically single, but with no connotations beyond that (it was actually a woman who started it). But it morphed beyond all recognition from its founding. To quote Alana (who started the original): "It definitely wasn't a bunch of guys blaming women for their problems. That's a pretty sad version of this phenomenon that's happening today. Things have changed in the last 20 years" and "Like a scientist who invented something that ended up being a weapon of war, I can't uninvent this word, nor restrict it to the nicer people who need it".

If they would have wanted to participate as members of the society, they would have come here legally.

Oh wow, why didn't they think of that! Just "come here legally" - it's so simple! Please share with everyone your brilliant plan that nobody thought of! *eyeroll*

And FYI, "being in the US illegally" is only a civil offense. And your entire economy is built around the existence of these people, who subsidize your government paying taxes on services they're legally barred from collecting, and creating vastly more wealth than they're paid (which then goes back into your economy, because economies are not zero-sum games). They're also disinflationary, lowering the costs of goods and services. And tend to work in fields that have chronic massive labour shortages (ag, food processing, construction, etc - there's generally a huge labour deficit there).

If you want to know what happens if you slash production but don't slash consumption, simply look at what happened to inflation the world over in the years following the COVID pandemic.

the (up to) 3 million a year let in by Mr Biden's open-Democrat-voter, er, -border policy,

That conspiracy theory is (A) illegal, and (B) logistically unfounded.

Illegal immigrants cannot vote. In case that's unclear, perhaps all caps will help: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CANNOT VOTE. Only citizens can vote. The punishment for illegally registering or voting is not a slap on the wrist. It includes fines, imprisonment, and, crucially for an immigrant, deportation and being permanently barred from ever gaining legal citizenship. The risk is immense for the "reward" of casting a single, statistically insignificant ballot - not least of which because the vast majority of the immigrant population doesn't live in swing states to begin with.

To register to vote, you must attest under penalty of perjury (felony) that you are a U.S. citizen. Most states require some form of documentation like a driver's license number or the last four digits of a Social Security number to register, which non-citizens and undocumented immigrants do not have.

There has been study after study after study on the notion of widespread illegal voting, and every single time, it's found to be mythical. Even the goddamn Heritage Foundation's own database (which they collect to argue for stricter voting laws) shows that it's a myth. They track every case of voter fraud in every election, and all years together from all sources of voter fraud (not simply "noncitizen votes"), there's only about 1100 cases during a timeperiod were 3 billion votes were cast, and that's overplaying it (it's not ~1100 cases of ineligible people, but includes everything from vote buying to interfering to intimidation to improper voting assistance). The Heritage Foundation itself has only 41 cases of noncitizens casting votes. A voter is more likely to be struck by lightning than to cast a fraudulent vote.

And to reiterate, this isn't some grand conspiracy, it's because it's the worst tradeoff imaginable. The benefits for casting a fraudulent ballot are tiny. You have almost zero chance of swinging the election even in a swing state, let alone a red or blue state. If you even care about the election at all. The penalties, by contrast, are extremely high, especially for a noncitizen. And it's easy to get caught (registration requires verifiable personal information that is easy to crosscheck, and indeed is *designed* for crosschecking - see ERIC for example - then onsite against poll books - plus there's a ton of other things like the "jury duty trap" (jury duty is drawn from the poll lists but then leads to cross-referencing the individual)). It's like trying to hold up a bank to get a single lotto ticket from the vault; it's just a nonsensical risk-reward tradeoff. And on top of it all, the notion that it's party based... you realize that Trump had 42% support among Latinos, right? Latino voters are on average conservative and religious compared to the US average, and have been increasingly swinging toward Republicans. If Democrats wanted any block to come to the US, it wouldn't be conservative hispanic catholic men, it'd be college-educated black atheist women (cue the "This Is The Future That Liberals Want" memes).

Lastly, the "three million per year" number is itself mythical. There's 2-3 million "border encounters" per year. This is a very different number from people who are "let in" (except, of course, nobody is being "let in", they're sneaking past border security). "Border encounters" includes people who are caught trying to enter and immediately returned (e.g. never get in - the vast majority), individuals who attempt to cross multiple times (one "encounter" per attempt), individuals who are legally allowed to enter to claim asylum, etc.