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New Mozilla, Corel, and Napster Releases 207

Everybody and his sister seems to have submitted at least one of these links: First, Mozilla build M11 is out. Go for it! Check this page for details. Second, there's a Linux port out for Napster. We already mentioned it earlier here, but apparently a lot of people missed the reference. Go get it already. And third, Corel Linux is now available - if you can handle a 311 MB. If you can't burn a CD, compile your kernel with loopback support and try 'mount -t iso9660 -o loop 6.1-i386.iso /mnt/cdrom'
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New Mozilla, Corel, and Napster Releases

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    Has anybody tried the new Corel Linux suite? I'm interested whether it installs nicely, and what you opinion is about the specific programs Corel created, such as that new filemanager.
  • Need CDR? Nah just mount it on the loopback device surely
  • I was impressed with M10, and if M11 shows as much improvement as did previous milestones, I reckon I've found a new permanent browser.
    Yeah, it crashes. It's still buggy. But if I'm going to use software that crashes all the time, I reckon I might as well do so while serving the public.
    Is this another anti-netscape post? I prefer to think of it as a pro-mozilla post.
  • Before you start downloading, consider your libraries: everyone with glibc older than 2.1 (or <gasp> libc5!) is shut out for the moment, due to a bug in the libraries. BWAAAHAAAA! I wanna Mozilla, too!
  • ...for following the other distributors' example and putting a free (this time free as in free beer) version of their Linux distribution online for download. I'll try it out as soon as I see a mirror within the German universities' backbone.

  • You do not need the CD-R if you are already running Linux. Use the o loop command. One of you techies can post the proper syntax. It was on a previous discussion. Intial comments is that it is not bad but can use improvement. For a version 1.0 I guess it is ok. Dont complain about what they left out as you can use 'update - aks Corel package manager' to download everything else you need. Cheers
  • Each mozilla release is more painful than the last. What I mean is that each one gets that much closer to being usable for my everyday browsing and e-mail/news needs. So close, I can almost taste it.

  • And third, Corel Linux is now available - if you can handle a 311 MB download and if you have a CD-R drive available, because this is an ISO file that can't be installed directly. Happy downloading!

    mount newCDimage /mnt -t iso9660 -o loop

    Works on *my* linux box. :)

  • by Anonymous Coward
    AFAICT, there is no boot disk, so you have to actually put it in the CD drive so that you can boot to it (which you can't with a loopback.) ~luge
  • Could some one give me a http mirror for Win32 mozilla? My firewall doesn't allow ftp.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    As root:

    losetup /dev/loop0 image
    mount -t iso9660 /dev/loop0 /mnt/something

    ... use it ...

    umount /mnt/something
    losetup -d /dev/loop0
  • Before you start downloading, consider your libraries
    He's having a go at the libraries now!
  • A link i have found useful is this one.
    It is very helpful to be able to opne that iso under win32.
    Winimage is one way to do that. t/winimage.htm

    Then you can extract all the files out and being an alternative install. Not that i know that you can do an ftp install for Corel Linux.
    Does ne1 have a link or 2 to the reviews of Corel Linux?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The release notes [] say:
    • On Linux systems that use glibc 2.0 (such as RedHat 5.2), there are problems with dl functions (dlopen(), dlsym()) not being thread safe. This might cause your M11 build to randomly crash at startup. If this happens to you, try running the application a few more times. The bits posted on are built on RedHat 6.0, which uses glibc 2.1 and does not have this problem. For more details, see bug 8849.
    Which sounds to me like it might work. I'm trying it out anyway
  • I think an ISO file is much better as it is one file to DL and you can cut straight to a CD or use loopback.
  • I'm a Netscape user (Linux) and am interested in Mozilla. I'm just baffled by one thing --

    What the heck is a Profile?

    Are profiles user-specific? Non user-specific? A species of rare tropical bird? All sorts of stuff says "thus and such profile bug/feature exists" but none seems to say, "hey, you moron, a profile is an endangered species of fungus native to northern Tasmania" (or whatever a profile is).

    Moron as always,
  • This Napster thing looks kinda neat, but I would be a bit worried about giving the world access to my disk. The site [] is a bit sketchy on the details.

  • by PigleT ( 28894 ) on Wednesday November 17, 1999 @04:54AM (#1526007) Homepage
    This looks worrying. Of course, folks have already posted about local loopback devices for avoiding having to burn a CD, but what worries me is the end-user license agreement [].

    In particular, note these extracts:
    1. Corel LINUX is a modular operating system made up of individual software components that were created by various individuals and entities ("Software Programs"). Many of the Software Programs included in Corel LINUX are distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License ("GPL") and other similar license agreements which permit You to copy, modify and redistribute the Software Programs

    So that's the definition of a "Software Program". Now what about:

    All right, title and interest in the Software Programs, including source code, documentation, appearance, structure and organization, are held by Corel Corporation, Corel Corporation Limited, and others and are protected by copyright and other laws.

    Is that actually in keeping with the GPL?

    On a totally separate thread, does anyone know what the equivalent mechanism to 'apt-get dist-upgrade' is going to be, in particular, how the currently-in-development distribution is going to be mirrored, etc? Or is it all going to be relatively "stuck" stationary like RedHat / SuSE etc? (I mean, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2 is very discrete. The above apt command isn't as discrete at all.)
  • The source is there too.

    It's just buried throughout the the FTP server.
  • There's still a number of glitches, especially in the redraw department, but it's now looking quite nice overall. Rather futuristic, actually. When it's finished I'm certain it will replace Netscape on my own machine.

    However, it's still heavy in the bloat department like it's predecessor :\ I don't wanta mail reader in my web browser, or a web page editor, or anything else but a web browser. If the source is open enough, perhaps those "features" can be excised and save me precious hard drive space and RAM.

    Just my first impressions..being posted from Mozilla itself.

  • You don't need to be a developer to make a contribution to the Mozilla project! You can see the list of bugs most voted for her e []. If you want to help the developers know which bugs you most want fixed, choose a bug or two from this list or another Bugzilla [] list and go vote for it!
  • One of the best features of Linux is the ablility to mount a ISO file as a file system using the loopback device kenel option. An example would be mount /tmp/file.iso /mnt/mount_dir -t iso9660 -o loop=/dev/loop3,blocksize=1024 This would allow you to access the iso file before burning it and realizing there was an error in the file. This happened to me once. I downloaded a 600 MB ISO file over my cable modem and burned a CD. I realized the file was currupt after 2 CDs the next day my friend told me about this little trick
  • If you just want to burn the iso, but don't want to learn the command line stuff, check out BurnISO /

    You need Perl and Perl/Tk as well as the appropriate CDR software. I have documentation on how to set up the kernel and everything!
  • I'm using it right now, and i'm not sure I want to go back ! It automatically started using all my plugins from 4.05, found all my bookmars, is blindingly fast, has the password remembring feature and more ! I can't wait until the official releases come out ! Now I'm going to do the CSS testing and Acid Box :)
  • What the heck is a Profile?

    Wintel machines (I'm not sure about Macs) can set up "user profiles" so multiple users of the machine can have their own settings without installing a new copy of netscape. Each profile has independent user preferences (all of them) and bookmarks.

    Netscape also has a feature called "roaming profiles" that allows user settings to be kept in sync on an LDAP server or on a web server. I personally use the roaming profiles with my linux boxes at home and the wintel/linux machines at work. It's damned handy.

    A quick search at [] outghtta turn up something more descriptive...

  • Thanks but...

    CNET: One ftp site so far.

    Tucows: One ftp site so far.



    Guess we gotta keep those kiddies away from Linux, it's worse than crack :). Dare to keep kids off Linux.
  • Has this happened to anyone else? I'm running on win32 (blah) and as I open the browser it crashes. I've deleted the mozreg file and the Users50 directory. I've tried importing my old profile in and alternatively running the wizard and creating one on the command line. Nadda.
    The page draws itself up and then Dr Watson pops up.

    viewer.exe runs perfectly.

    email: 3->e
  • by J-F Mammet ( 769 ) on Wednesday November 17, 1999 @05:11AM (#1526019) Homepage
    I installed corel linux from the iso yesterday evening (european time).

    The installation is quite good. It automatically detected all my hardware (ok I've got a simple machine : voodoo banshee, ne2000 pci clone ide hd). Then the graphical installer asked me for a user login name, good point. After that I had to choose between some premade configurations, like destop/server/custom). I choosed custom. With this option I had the possibility to choose to install any package of the distribution. I choosed almost all of them and went to the next step.

    Now I had to choose on what partition I wanted to install, an ext2 one or a windows/dos partion. Good choice for beginners. Of course I installed on an ext2 one. The graphical fdisk is good and easy to use, but it seemed a little buggy for the free space calculation (eg it said 125 meg free but I could only create a 110 meg swap partition).

    After that is the rather long and boring package installation. No problem with it except the mouse cursor was rather slow and jumpy during this process , not good for a first timer thinking linux is a true multitasking os (I know it is, it must be because the installation is using the framebuffer I think).

    Then I was asked to reboot, no question asked about the boot loader or anything else, bad point here.

    After the reboot, quite a shock, the OS loader is not LILO but a rather nice graphical (320x200) menu with an animated disk on the lower right corner. I can choose between corel linux and some expert/safe mode. I can also choose windows and dos. This is good for non linux users, but I have 4 different linux installs at home for testing and of course none were found so I had to reinstall lilo (I'm pretty sure I could have changed the configuration of the boot manager but I had no time for it).

    The first time I choosed corel linux, and this was quite a shock : No boot messages ! The OS loader stays "on top" of the text and I did not find the way to get rid of it (of course choosing expert mode won't show this screen). This is very windowish and a rather bad point for any serious linux user. A rather strange thing is that the first time it booted, it fscked the partition so it took a loooong time and I had no idea what was happening (the loader writes some text like loading linux/check partitions and so on).

    then kdm was launched. A rather standard kdm, ala NT. I was able to choose between root and the user I had created. I logged in as a normal user to get on a almost standard KDE screen, with some new icons.

    There are of course some great novelties, like the file manager, windows share browsers and other great program but everything looks so muck like windows that it made me want to puke. I know KDE is really windows like, but with the corel extensions they took this idea to the extreme. You can even share a directoy by clicking on properties in the context menu, exactly like NT !

    Of course it's rather impressive and nice for a former windows user but I think some originality would have been a good idea.

    Here is the worst point : I did not find a way to configure my french keyboard "globally" for the console and X. The only way I found was to choose an international keyboard for each user I created. Really bad point here corel.
    One other thing to note is that there is no translation in the things corel added to kde so it's one other bad point. It's really strange to get windows half in franch half in english. They should have killed all other langages so no one would have complained.

    So even if corel did an incredible job developping some excellent tools and programs, I think the distribution is way too windows like and not for non english people. Too bad, hopefully this will be corrected in 1.1 !

    In conclusion if you are already a linux user, this is not for you. But for a windows user this may be a good way to start using linux.

    Btw a friend of mine was not even able to start the installation, it simply rebooted at the hardware check.

    J-F Mammet
  • Do you have Java 1.3 installed. If so, read the release notes for a fix.
  • ..."Corel Corporation, Corel Corporation Limited, and others"... I suppose this reference to "others" is a reference to all the open source software developers. It would be kinda nice if instead of them referencing "others" they referenced another document which listed the particular names of each developer and the associated program. hmmm, does freshmeat keep such a list? if so Corel could reference this other list in their license.

    "The importance of using technology in the right way has never been more clear." []
  • In Windows Netscape a profile is basically the same as the linux .rc files and associated user independent information. Windows doesn't really tell programs what user you are, nor does it have a home directory for storing program configurations for each user (it sorta does, but there is no standard for third party programs of where to put configurations) Anyways in netscape for windows, if you have multiple users, when you run it, it ask you what profile you want to use. (Basically who you are? sorta...)
    Anyways profiles are just specific configurations for each user, such as your email information and display settings for Netscape/Mozilla.
  • To be a dull, pragmatic reply to what was meant to be a humorous post, I'm sure this is because minors (in the US...hmmm...) can't agree to contracts such as license agreements.

  • I've been getting the nightly builds for the
    last week or so, and it looks amazing. The only
    problem I have with it now is the fact that you
    can't link mime types to launch applications
    yet. So, for my streaming MP3 addiction I still
    have to use Netscape, but for everything else
    I've been using Mozilla. It's really quite
    stable and looks SO much better than Netscape.
    I love the blue/grey theme.
  • that beta has been out for awhile now... my only complaint about it: it isn't opensource

    As long as the author of it does not use the original napster protocal client code, it is perfectly legal to produce, and make the code open. Not doing so is merely an excuse to attempt to hinder competition.

    Napster for windows is -incredibly- bug ridden, and the linux one isn't much better. The author not making it opensource just makes no sense, if he doesn't make it opensource, someone else will make a client and will, and guess which one will develop FAR faster and be more popular? And guess who attempted to hinder competition and shot themselves in the foot.

    It's an ok start, but it will soon be passed by another client if it isn't made opensource.

  • I've been using it pretty much consistently since I was able to nab it Monday night. For a 1.0 release I'm very happy with it. The install is ludicrously easy to do, but you don't have the control over some things (X-Windows setup and networking), but the install seems to do a good job of getting it working somewhat close to my real needs. As far as apt-get, you can still use it, and they also included a graphical frontend that works great. You can specify mirrors other than Corel's web site. I've got a couple of Debian/Potato mirrors in my list, and it all works and updates perfectly.
  • Why don't you look at the

    And you will see that they work on a release till they get all the features they want in it. Start working on the next release, continue to fix bugs on the previous till they reach a point where they think they have all the new features fairly stable. Then they release it.
  • by Dast ( 10275 ) on Wednesday November 17, 1999 @05:23AM (#1526030)
    I've skimmed through the FAQ and release notes, but I can't find much info on Full Circle that is compiled into Mozilla. The release pages says "Full Circle Enabled builds allow transmission of crash data back to Netscape, improved crash analysis, and posting of crash related information to the netscape.public.mozilla.crash-data news group".

    That is pretty cool, but is it safe? Also, does that mean when I find a bug, I don't need to report it? It is reported automatically?

    Anyone have any more info, or pointers to info?
  • He has a very good reason, but I'm not sure if he told me in confidence or not.
  • mount -o loop <imagename> <mountpoint> has always worked for me - I've never needed to use the losetup command. As ever, YMMV.

    Had a brief look at it this morning (GMT). It's pretty slick, but I think the install is too simple. It leaves out things which I think should be available.

  • Let's see...

    Napster takes a list of MP3 files on my hard drive, uploads the list to a server, and sets other users out downloading those files, and it's a must have.

    Real networks takes a list of music-specific data files on my hard drive, and uploads the list to a server, along with some other access data, and they're a villain.

    And the only difference between them is (a) Slashdot's word that I should download Napster, and (b) some legaleze in the license or usage agreements.
  • Or, if you don't want to worry about loop-device allocation:
    mount -t iso9660 -o loop [file] [mnt-pnt]

    You might also want to avoid mounting on '/mnt', as subdirs (such as '/mnt/floppy') are used by many distros.

  • and RedHat 6.1 iso and q3DemoTEST if anyone cares []

    SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers

  • But is it possible to put the loopback on a file-server and boot from the network?

  • The new release seems to work better than M10, but it is still buggy and it crashed after about 5 minutes of use (which is the longest I've managed so far). I was happy to see that I could compose a message and send it without anything horrible happening :).

    Good work mozilla team! Keep it up and you may run the world yet! :)


  • Isn't it obvious? They want to remain in control of the clients, so they can add ads to the linux version too eventually. And they're afraind of clones for windows.
  • I don't want a mail reader in my web browser, or a web page editor, or anything else but a web browser.

    And that's exactly what you get. Read the interviews off and you'll discover that the editor and mail/news are simply XUL and XPCom layers that are dynamically loaded as and when needed. If somebody wanted to they could easily ship this browser without those features at all - simply modify the XUL files to have no "mail" button and remove the dso from the download.

    Having said all that - currently I find Mozilla slow. Real slow. Try it on a slower machine (133Mhz +64Mb ram machine here) and it's unbearable. I know they'll improve this - I just hope it's enough.
  • Check out Corel's stock price [] at yahoo. Up around 10% or so.

  • There Linux OS page links directly to this ftp site [].

    I can't, however, actually get on and have a look as their ftp server is maxed out at the moment.
  • I was reading the Netscape docs the other day to figure out how to get rid of unwanted profiles and there was a definition of profiles, which says the same stuff as the other two responses, about how it allows multi-user etc...
    the thing is, those docs said that the Unix versions of Netscape do not contain the profile feature, and if you want to make a different user profile, you should create a new user account. That seems like the logical way to do it, since the profile is basically a replacement for the multi-user concept that is fundamentally built in to Unix and completely absent (well, sometimes superficially present) from Windows and Mac.

    So I would think this would not be a feature Mozilla would want to include in their Linux version, because apparently it is introducing bugs, and it's redundant with (and worse than) the normal Linux multi-user system.

    Of course, it's possible that they are just including it because it doesn't fit their development model right now to be doing different things for different OSes.
    I noticed a post above complaining about the continued inclusion of email and editor features. Perhaps once this thing is done, someone will take the time (maybe not too tough, and maybe already the plan) to go through the code and chop out all the extra stuff like mail and composer and profiles and make a nice sleek browser. I'm afraid my hacking skills are not adequate, but the person who did such a thing would certainly earn my admiration.
  • What kind of configuration is needed to run Mozilla well? I've tried the last couple of milestones, including M11, but they are so slow on my Pentium 266. M11 is slower than Netscape 4.61 and much slower than IE4 on the same hardware. There's a 3-5 second delay on displaying menus and it seems like everything I do generates a delayed response. Are there any optimizations/configurations that can be tweaked? (Actually tweaked is probably an inadequate word, about a factor of ten speed increase is needed)
  • It might be an idea to make a 'user' build. The last time I tried running moz, under windoze I might add, the biggest cause of lag was the debug messages being sent to the console. Wouldn't it be an idea to do a build with these disabled so that the current 'real-world-user' view of performance can be looked at? (This would also go a way to stopping all those (it's SLOW) trolls :-)

  • It is a little unsettling isn't it? Some buddies at the computer lab were using it and I thought,"What a great idea, let the world know about your copyright infringements and view your hard drive at the same time." The windows version allows you to specify what folders you can allow access to. I can't wait to get ahold of the Linux port when I get home, but I would like assurance I can set the folder/whatever I share to be read only.

    Also a tip for new modem users of this. If you set your bandwidth to 14.4 it won't affect your D/L speed, but folks will definately look for faster sites with the same files before D/L'ing yours...Also set one folder with like 2-3 mp3's so that folks won't see your secret stash. I know it's cruel/lame whatever, but so is having to use the phone and cutting them off mid-download.
    rschaar{at} if it's important.
  • It still is somewhat slow but that is to be expected until they are done fixing bugs and implementing everything. It does look really nice and the pages seem to be getting layed out correctly. Much improvement in menus and dialogs has been done. Still crashes or acts weird on almost all forms I tried. I am anxious to see the finish product given how good it is already looking (and it's pre-alpha still!) - who said Mozilla was dead? Myself I'm waiting for Jabber to hit the streets and then see file trading become semi-automated. At least until everyone has more bandwidth I see MP3's being traded like trading cards rather than just given away in mass. Who knows, maybe DVD rips too. :)
  • (insert "html shouldn't be used for layout/design" comment here)

    I've got a fair amount of tables on my page []; I've recently been checking to see how Mozilla renders it.. somewhat akin to the acid test page.

    Now, the page itself is pretty much 4.0 compliant, albeit somewhat complex; the W3 validator [] bitches about ampersands in CGI URIs, so there's nothing I can do about that. In any case...

    In MSIE and NS current versions, the page looks pretty much like I'd expect it to. There are minor variations, nothing of great concern.

    Now, in M10, The grey box in the middle was shrunken, sorta pushed over to the left a little bit. OK, not exactly what I wanted, but not horrid. In M11, however, the grey box gets shoved waaay over to the right, running into other tables.

    Thus, on first glance, it appears that something, in one of the milestones, is wrong. I understand that my page might not be really simple, that's an aside, and I will deal with it later. My concern is that the two milestones rendered the page differently. For the longest time, I've heard that Mozilla is (as in, yes, currently, right now) fully 4.0/CSS1/whatever else compliant. However, such observations have me wondering otherwise....? Could someone clarify?
  • Having said all that - currently I find Mozilla slow. Real slow.

    There are currently some major performance issues that are being working on. They will be fixed before final release. One of the biggest is this bug here []. If you want a faster and more responsive browser whilst downloading pages, go and vote [] for this bug now.
  • I don't see an problems with the PROPRIETARY RIGHTS section. The important point of the GPL when compared to public domain software is that the authors do not give up their copyright. They keep it, but grant everybody who receives the software the well-known freedoms. This is what GNU calls copyleft - copyright, but used the other way around.

    This mechanism is very important to be able to legally ensure that nobody misuses GPLed code.


  • Sounds reasonable to me. At least you're not having to do an [] search for the songs, only to find out you have to upload something to someones ftp directory, search through pages of adbanners for nonexistant passwords, or be forced to watch horrific sex scenes!(sorry couldn't resist).
    rschaar{at} if it's important.
  • The password remembering feature is a good thing??

    Moz M11 is nice otherwise

  • Go and post a bug report in [] and it will be fixed if it turns out to be a true bug.
  • This Napster thing looks kinda neat, but I would be a bit worried about giving the world access to my disk.

    Indeed. Given the track record of things like the Windows ICQ client and the RealPlayer, you should be cautious about downloading the latest and greatest binary-only client for some closed protocol.

    You could probably run the client chroot()ed to a directory containing only MP3s, and as the user nobody. FreeBSD 4.0 (which AFAIK is a development version) has a jail() [] system call which might be appropriate.

  • Napster gives you control over what exactly those people get to if you don't want people to find out you have a taste for Micheal Bolton just put those files somewhere you haven't told Napster to look for your MP3's.
    rschaar{at} if it's important.
  • FullCircle will launch when mozilla crashes (if it's working correctly) and will not send any data until you tell it to. I consider it safe. Please report any and all bugs to Bugzilla found at Many bugs will not crash mozilla and so not bring up FullCircle. I hope this post is somewhat helpful.
  • Now, the page itself is pretty much 4.0 compliant, albeit somewhat complex; the W3 validator bitches about ampersands in CGI URIs, so there's nothing I can do about that. In any case...

    There is something you can do. If you want to link to a URL like:


    ...then the URL should be written in the source as:


  • Really? I'm using it right now on a P200/32meg RAM, and it is quite usable. Not quite as nice as on my other box (PIII450/256meg) but still pretty usable. I'm sure when debug is off and optimization is on, it'll be quite usable.
  • See .htm for more detailed licensing.

    It looks like the Corel additions are all under the "Corel Public License" or "CPL", which is exactly the same the the Mozilla license with Corel replacing references to Mozilla and Netscape.
  • I would check Bugzilla to see if some one's already working on it. If you don't see anything that looks like your bug then make a report. It would help the mozilla layout team if you could reduce the problem to a simple test case and attach that or an url to it.
  • why doesn't someone who has more time than I do try to break in to a computer running it.. Like, say.. Your own. (It runs on port 6699..)

    I played with it for one second and got this.
    # telnet 6699

    Press all the keys I tried, and after one keystroke, it says INVALID REQUEST. Don't press anything for 10-15 seconds, it drops the onnection.

    It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what keystroke is not invalid.

  • and it is only postponing the inevitable, someone will code a client and make it opensource.
  • I downloaded the win32 version, and thus far all attempts to get the proxy server to work have failed :( It looks so cool to, I really want it to work.
  • And I checked the European Linuxberg/Tucows mirrors and they don't carry the image file, in fact, the two German universities' backbone Linuxberg mirrors don't seem to carry any files, only the file list.

    See my point? :-(

  • I've been trying to install linux on my new athlon but i can't find a distribution with the MTRR fix.
  • In that case, run viewer rather than apprunner.
  • I'm not blaming em, I'm just stating the obvious. (It's the easiest to state, right?).
  • With most other Linux distributions you don't have to worry about this kind of crap.

    I think Corel is doing some really good things towards increasing acceptance of Linux. However, I think they need to get legal and financial staff that aren't so anal retentive.

    One of the joys of Linux is not having to sweat the details of different license agreements. That's one of the reasons we are often chossing Linux over Digital Unix and Solaris where I work. I realize that many people are really tired of hearing Linux users complain about license agreements. But I think Corel would be better off - financially and legally, if they would just GPL this stuff.
  • Will it be possible to install Corel WP Suite on another distribution? For instance, could we use it on RedHat or Suse?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The concepts behind Napster is almost identical to a #MP3 irc channel full of bots allowing dcc of each user's mp3 library. What Napster has done different is switch the method to a prioritary closed protocol and put a prittier interface in front of it all. And despite what capncook thinks, tracking down copyright violations should be easier than tracking down on IRC. If your goal is to put fear into the RIAA then discuss a privacy protocol such as ZeroKnowledge Systems [] instead of a protocol which consolidates violation information and makes it available to anyone.
  • Mine (M11) seems to load the pages pretty quick, but I got 3 Dr. Watsons in about 10 minutes. Ahhh.. the joys of alpha software. My biggest beef is the "My Panels" box which seems to come up by defailt. First, how do I kill it? I want it gone, dead...bye bye. I don't want to slide it over to the left, I want it gone gone gone.

    Second, why does this "real estate hogging intrusion of my space" come up by default? (Insert-> I'm turning into an old fart disclaimer) Whatever happened to designing a clean interface??? Why why why can't you give me a nice clean interface. I just wanna plug in a url and go to a website. I just want a nice big box for that page to load up in. I don't want panels, I don't want channels, (Insert-> cryptic Dr. Seuss reference for other old farts) I don't want green eggs and ham. Can somebody, for the love of God please help me.

    Otherwise it is starting to look pretty good :)
  • by Uruk ( 4907 ) on Wednesday November 17, 1999 @06:57AM (#1526080)
    Nice review thanks for posting it.

    I also checked out some of the screenshots from the article that is linked in this story, and they seem extremely windowish. Right down to the file manager, whose toplevel entry is "My Linux" (apparently a modification of "My Computer" in windows)

    I can understand their desire to appeal to a certain segment of the market, and I think that they're doing just that. But I don't think I'd use it personally because of that. I didn't stop using windows just because I didn't think it was a stable OS (although that was one of the reasons) I stopped using it also because I thought the UI was boring and unimaginative. Look at X, and linux, and you have 2.0E50 choices for how you want to interact graphically with your machine. I would hate to go back to the same old UI after going through the linux learning curve.

    Points to them though for making the install easier, and for making linux friendly to new people. I just hope that they don't make it so windowish over time that it loses its soul as a UNIX. That kind of worry is probably premature at this point, but I still wonder.

    Seems to me though that another free software distribution stepping to the plate though means one thing - more choice. That's another reason why I'm in linux in the first place too. (Even if I don't plan on using it, I still like the fact that the choice is there)

  • It's optional. I did a quick check out of M11 and
    it popped up a little thing "Do you want to remember this password?" or some such.
  • Yes, good point. But, the install process for Napster isn't obviously clear about the fact that it will catalogue your MP3s, upload the catalog to a database, and then expose that database to other users.

    A better idea would be to provide you an opportunity to build the catalog you want to expose yourself. Also, you as the "host" maintainer, do not have the option to control who connects to your PC and you don't even have the option of disconnecting currently connected users when you close down Napster. And the consent to this is not made clear anywhere in their install process except in their license agreement.

    For it's part, I don't defend RealNetworks abhorrent actions. But, I must admit that installing Napster imposes the same "read the legalese" mentality that Real is using as their defense.
  • I was so excited to give this distro a try, but what a nightmare it turned into. I ran the install an choose to install on a empty partition. Corel said that it would automatically take care of partition space for the root and swap. The install
    went fine, I rebooted and the sys hung. Thinking that the active partition might not have been set, I went to fdisk and to my surprise I found 2 active partitions on my hard drive (weird). I set it to Corel's partition and rebooted. I was going to nowheres' vill fast. The sys hung once again. I got fed up deleted the partitions and decided to reload redhat on my sys. When I got to disk druid it would not allow me to create any partitions. It said that I did not have enough space, even though it was reporting 2Gigs free (weird). Thinking that there must be an invisible partition hogging the space I booted up the old PQ-Magic and to my stunning surprise I was informed that I had an invalid partition table. Oh goody, time to wip out the old norton diskedit. I thought Corel was supposed to be an easy install. I don't know about you but I think I'll stick to my old distro.

  • It works with SuSE...


  • You can build that browser you want, and you don't even need to know C or C++. All you need to know is some javascript and the rest is xml and css. You can go in and rip out the chrome that you dont like and replace it with something simpler. Check out for details. XUL is the greatest.
  • Indeed, you could. Or if, like me, you thought you had something useful to contribute, you could write your own and make a 44th GUI front-end. My program doesn't do anything else except write ISO's. It's not meant to compete with anything fancy (I use XCDroast and Gnometoaster a lot) but is meant for people who quickly want to get the job done. It took me all of 1-2 hours to research and write, and it's a simple little Perl script. I could do better, but others already have. So, it's just another little utility for the tool box. Ben
  • Runs blisteringly quick on a PII 233Mhz laptop.
    Also appears quite stable.

    But then I'm running Linux. I assume from your ``IE4 on the same hardware'' comment that you're running under Windows. But then everything runs like a dog under Windows ...

    Chris Wareham
  • by ucblockhead ( 63650 ) on Wednesday November 17, 1999 @07:09AM (#1526088) Homepage Journal
    I have two reactions to this:

    1) Corel did exactly the right thing. (Except for non-English support, which is correctable.)

    2) I likely won't install Corel Linux myself.

    Those two things aren't contradictory. Corel is trying to go after the Windows market. It sounds like they did exactly what they needed to do to go after the average nontechnical Windows user. This is very good for them, and, I think, very good if you want to see Linux on the desktop. However, this does not mean that this is a distribution for your or I or pretty much anyone who reads /. to install. That's ok. We've got plenty of good distributions to choose from.

    That's the advantage of the Linux model. Choice.

    Probably most of the people who install Corel Linux (assuming the marketting is appropriate) will never care anything about what's underneath, and will see it merely as a cheaper, more stable system that does what Windows does. That's ok. Grandma doesn't want to know what a tarball is. And perhaps a small percentage will eventually want to dig under the covers.
  • Well, yes, actually. It asks your permission to remember passwords, and it's open source so you can make sure it doesn't hose you. So you get the convenience of not typing passwords, with most of your paranoia problems being irrelevant. I'd say that a Good Thing (TM).
  • by Christopher B. Brown ( 1267 ) <> on Wednesday November 17, 1999 @07:12AM (#1526090) Homepage
    This is also true in Canada, and is likely true in many other jurisdictions.

    It's quite a dilemna; if they include components that have licensing agreements that require some degree of consent on the part of the user, they require an "adult's" consent.

    It is particularly a problem for software that requires something like unto the "dastardly" MSFT EULA; it is less of an issue with Free Software, but even there, there is some need to be able to enforce the terms of GPL, XFree86 License, and other such licenses, and that can certainly be problematic for the young'uns.

    A more pointed question, that isn't directly relevant to this particular situation:

    Can a minor consent to release code under the GPL when they may not be legally able to establish contracts?

    The fact that we might like the answer to be yes does not necessarily make it so...

  • In Mozilla M10, the proxies worked but you had to edit the files manually. (There are details at on how to do this.) I'm not sure if the proxy setup is working on M11. If it doesn't appear to be, you can also do it the M10 way with a text editor.
  • I just dl'ed Mozilla for the first time and I was quite impressed with it. Nonetheless it was for win32 =) But I have one complaint. That is it doesn't handle DHTML as well as IE 5. Things such as floating frames are not supported at all, which I think is a very nice feature.

    I have had problems with netscape not rendering my tables properly with img's as backgrounds to individual cells. Unill we can implement the code properly we will continue to loose the browser war.

  • ZDNet uses some non-standard HTML which will never work in Mozilla. If you want ZDNet to fix their site so it will work with Mozilla, use this link [] to send a message to
  • I disagree that this bug is the major cause of the slowdown though (and it appears some netscapers do too).

    I think it goes deeper than that. My thoughts are that it has to do with the UI marshalling code, but I really don't know enough about it.
  • I'm running it on Linux (P133, 64Mb) and it's also dog slow compared to Netscape. Removing debugging might speed it up a bit, but there are a fair few speed related bugs in bugzilla now so I don't think that's really the issue.
  • Also, does that mean when I find a bug, I don't need to report it? It is reported automatically?

    While I don't know too much about Full Circle, I know that it isn't going to give the kind of bug report you could contribute. Information like what you were doing at the time, what machine configuration you've got and whether the bug is reproducable is critical to debugging it.

    As another respondant mentioned, many Mozilla bugs will not crash the program and trigger the Talkback.

    So browse the bugzilla website []. Learn how to use Bugzilla. Snag a nightly build and bang on it.

    I finally did. I'd been going for months with Mozilla crashing one of my computers. Well, with the problem not getting any better I started digging through Bugzilla, found others reporting the same bug and someone had a possible solution. I tried something similar (having to do with Java Runtime Environment) and it works now. So, while there is still some kind of bug, we've got two of us reporting into Bugzilla a solution. That gives the hardcore developers some clues, something to follow.

  • No problem. You will have to buy the suite for 79.99 I think. Check out for more info.
  • Reverse-engineering is perfectly legal. It's safe for me to assume that that's what you've done in order to make a working Napster client without help from the author. You should have no problems (read: Napster should have no legal issues with you) releasing your client. There should also be no problem with releasing the source code to your program, since it's your code and not Napster's. If it weren't for people like you who spend the time to figure out how a "secret" protocol works, there'd be no real useful ICQ clients for Linux.

    Go for it, I say.

    - A.P.

    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

  • I know what you mean. I've been running the 11-12 Win32 nightly for the last few days and it's really impressive. I'm downloading M11 right now (damn slooooow dialup!) and can hardly wait to check it out.

    Zontar The Mindless,

  • I compiled it without the debugging code, as I don't expect to be working on it any time soon - just wanted a quick look at the improvements. I think you'll find that most of the Bugzilla comments regarding performance come from people testing the precompiled versions. These have the debugging code and extra symbols specifically to try and get some valid feedback. However, the vast majority of people are only having a quick peek at Mozilla and are either incapable or unwilling to file a useful bug report.

    Chris Wareham

Logic is the chastity belt of the mind!