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The Internet

DSL modem standard gets final approval from ITU 92

Posted by Hemos from the breaucracy-slow dept.
drama writes "The International Telecommunications Union today gave final approval to a long-awaited digital subscriber line standard that could hasten consumer use of high-speed Net connections." The article has some interesting information. Essentially, they've approved the G.lite standard, which is a lower-cost version, meaning that the consumer can buy the parts at the store, rather then the phone company needing to send people out - does that mean I can have DSL before 2020, please? *sigh*
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DSL modem standard gets final approval from ITU More

DSL modem standard gets final approval from ITU

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  • I like my cable modem fine, 5 IP addresses 5 Email addresses 3m downstream 768k upstream. On my 486 (linux) I have seen data transfers over 100K a second which is as fast as I could want. All of this for 28$ a month. I host my own website (apache) and setup sendmail (8.9.3). Everything works great. I couldnt ask for more. With my 8 port hub people come over and do FTP installs of linux instead of waiting for a CD from cheapbytes.
  • mmm... DMT.

    -l
  • They asked me the same thing, but I told them to keep their grubby paws off my machine, because I didn't want their noses poking around my computer.

    It took about three seconds to compile tulip.c into my kernel and turn the computer back on.

    I've got nothing but high marks for Pac Bell.


    -mattyj
  • I'm with a CLEC, so the ILEC tech's had to come out and extend an unbundled loop to my house as a second line. But the process was identical to installing a second phone line. If my "main" phone line had DSL hooked up to it, I would not have needed anyone to come out. The Nortel equipment (which is rock solid, BTW) could be based on g.lite, but I don't know.
  • I received the same package. For some reason, they gave me something like 5 filters, which is more than a bit excessive. I put a splitter at the demarcation jack, plugged the modem into one side, and a filter into the other. I then plugged all of my voice lines into that. 1 filter needed, as easy as can be...
  • This is actually why I prefer the DSL to the cable modems. Sympatico here has no "No Server" clauses in the contract. They mention in the documentation that you can't run servers, but only because of dynamic IP's. Apparently, they haven't heard of Dynamic DNS :-). The one disadvantage is that they enforce the use of their proxy web server (for port 80, at least). So hopefully Mozilla clears up the proxy problems soon...
  • The Nortel equipment (which is rock solid, BTW) could be based on g.lite, but I don't know.

    I infer from a brochure they have on it that it might be, at least, similar technology. Unfortunately, their name for it doesn't include the string "DSL", so it took a bit of work to find info about it under Nortel's "Products & Services" page - they call it the "1-Meg Modem" - but I finally found their home page for it [nortelnetworks.com]; under it is The 1-Meg Modem Bulletin [nortelnetworks.com] (which is a PDF document, so you'll need a PDF reader to read it), which says, on page 7, in a sidebar:

    As an 'early' G.Lite product, the 1-Meg Modem supports the UAWG value proposition of a splitterless solution optimized for the consumer marketplace. This product will naturally evolve to G.Lite compatibility as that standard solidifies.
  • Where in Canada are you? Here in Vancouver, BC, BCTel still requires to come over to your place, fiddle around with the existing wires, install the splitter, and test it out on HIS/HER laptop. All the computer setting is done by yourself. However, we still have to pay $100CAN for the installation fee. (BCTel has said that this is refundable if you stay on for 1 year. This is not a 1 year contract.)
  • There ought to be a way to switch the speeds, so the 640k is outbound from the user, and the 90k is inbound. That would be great for home servers, or webcams, etc. In fact I can't see why this couldn't be done dynamically, in response to load.
  • College towns have 2 things going for them to get high speed/availability first. Number one, most of them already have existing large pipes to the backbone that they can let an ISP have bandwidth on to share costs. Number two, they have large numbers of people in a concentrated area that want access. In College Station, TX (Texas A&M) they have DSL (ADSL?) and a good cable modem service. Why? Because most of the town is students and faculty of the school. The school modem pool can't possibly handle the 45,000+ users so the need was there. If you are the only person in a 2 mile radius begging for these services they aren't going to rush them to you.

    Another possibility regarding the cable is the fact that there is no competition in cable companies. I live in Montgomery County, MD. We have millions of people living there and (I think) _ONE_ cable company. How are they supposed to serve everyone at once?

  • I have the US West service, and it rocks. They a dvertise it as 256K up/down, but they actually provide 640K down / 272K up.

  • Re:Cost (Score:1)

    by moab ( 62800 )
    My signup date is the 29th here in Portland, OR and the cost breaksdown like this:

    69.00 - Activation fee
    29.95 - US West 256K up/down DSL
    18.00 - Local service provider
    21.00 - phone line (incl tax/fees)
    50.00 - external Cisco and 3Com905BTX NIC
    ----- or $0 for internal combo NIC/Modem
    187.95

    You can opt for a tech to come hook it up for $149. This is on special until 7/2/99. Normally they charge another $200 for the modem. he startup cost over $500 was prohibitive...under $200 is not...at least for this bandwidth starved user.
  • Face it, I think that "modem" is going to be the term of choice for the hardware that interfaces computers to external internet services.

    Yes, G.lite doesn't modulate/demodulate like every analog modem since the days of ARPAnet, but it's such a useful term that I doubt it will disappear. Who besides a slashdot geek will want to use a term like Adaptive Transceiver Unit/Remote? Sounds like technobabble from Star Trek to most people.

    "Sir, the aliens have interfered with our Adaptive Transceiver Unit, remotely!" "Red Alert!"

    Especially for something going to the retail market, it's important to have a Name for the Thing. It's already been extended to "cable modems" and "ISDN modems". And if real analog modems (and the POTS they depend on) are living on numbered days, why not steal the term?

    This is the way languages evolve ...

    (By the way, thanks for the first-person tale of working with Rhythms, I have been giving them a very close look!)

  • Re:Cost (Score:1)

    by Wah ( 30840 )
    USWest recently lowered their DSL price to $29.95/mo. If you use their ISP it's an additional 17.95/mo. I haven't had a problem and have had the service at two seperate locations, very impressed, 640k down/256k up (Q3 + V3 + P3 + DSL = what's a "sun"). They offer services up to 7mbs for bidness (we're going with 1mbs for $125).
  • And you'd use that extra bandwidth for ... what, exactly? Running a porn site in the basement?

    I'm a power user, and I can't imagine that my upload bytes are more than 10% of my download bytes. Even if I include my web page at my ISP, it's perhaps 20%. So if you host your own website, maybe you'll need symmetric, but probably not. And if you're hosting a business website, then you're not a "home user" and your plea is misdirected.

    As for the internet being a broadcast medium, dude, that doesn't depend on the technology. That depends on the customers. Most of whom are not going to be broadcasters themselves. The "modest" interactivity of chat, e-mail, etc. is plenty for them.

    Besides, as I used to tell people before they'd really heard of the internet, The Internet is just a wire. What you can do with it depends entirely on what you choose to try to do with it.
  • Are you a member of Team Slidewayz? Just wondering.
  • It was funny and I laughed.

    It was posted by an AC and it wasn't a half-page long-winded essay, so it was moderated to -1.

    Slashdot is great. It's best when people don't take it too seriously, though.
  • Hmm, what sort of equipment is needed for the ISP end of the DSL line? We aren't the phone company, we just provide the access to the net, so what in terms of hardware are needed (links will earn you a cookie!). Thanks 8)

    - b00tch
  • > G.Lite doesn't require a truck roll (i.e. a visit from an engineer), since it doesn't have
    > a 'splitter' that separates the POTS (Plain Old Telephone System, i.e. phones, etc.)
    > frequencies from the xDSL frequencies.

    Too bad they forgot about ISDN. Sure, in the USA almost nobody has ISDN, but in Europe most people who would like to get ADSL currently have ISDN. If they just changed a few of the frequencies in the spec, ISDN and G.lite could be carried over the same copper as well, but they didn't. So G.lite will probably fail in Europe. See also Orckit [orckit.com].
  • I live in a Rural area (about 90mi from a true metro area, 15mi from a city of 40,000). I moved from Nashville TN where I had used @home for nearly 2years. Now I am stuck with 56k (actually the best connect I ever get is 36k). This really sucks. I love the area where I live (great schools, quality of life is good, low crime, etc.) but I am truly in a digital backwater. Unless someone comes out with a 2way satellite setup that is affordable or a wireless system I don't see broadband ever coming here. The telcos, cable cos, and everyone else only focus on the supposed major markets (even though there is no competition out here in the rural world).

    Oh well, its still worth living here even with the limited tech options...
  • When I signed of for DSL from USWest, I was able to save myself about $100 by doing the install work myself. Saved myself the hassle of setting up a time to meet with the technician. Installation proved to be a no-brainer.

    The only time I dealt with a technician was when I called my ISP to get a static IP number.

    While the whole process was not plug and play, it didn't require a technician.
  • "Mom! Tell Billy to stop playing Quake! I'm trying to talk to my boyfriend, but there's not enough bandwidth!"

    What ever will we do? Have to find a place to get rid of our sisters...

    -Chris
  • A "cable modem" *is* a modem. Your computer speaks digital, the cable network is analog. It's at least DE-modulating, depending on what kind of connection you have. So I guess some people have "cable modems", the others just have "cable dems".

    -Chris
  • So? When I got on the Net 300 baud was fast and most people had 110 baud. Then those University hotshots got 1200 baud.

    How old am I? Well, I was a teen then, so you do the math. Just one word, ARPAnet ...

    Nowadays I upload at 272Mbps and download at 720Mbps ... while using a 56K on the voice band at the same time ...

    Will in Seattle
  • I've got ADSL with the full 1MB downstream/384K upstream using Nortel's 1 meg modems. Awesome! Pages load instantly now. I also have a voice line on the DSL circuit so I can surf and talk at the same time. (Porn and 1-900, hehehe).
  • I just hope that PacBell won't do something stupid like change the service for existing customers. I'm quite happy with the service I have now [Pay $50/mo for 384/128, but actually get 1.4Mb on the downlink :) ] Normally I'd say there's no way they'd do something as stupid as try to change current users configurations, but sometimes you can't put anything past utility companies.

    Ender

    Somedays it's just not worth chewing through the restraints...

  • Getting my ADSL line installed tomorrow, assuming of course that PacBell manages to show up.

    Needless to say, extensive Q3A stress testing will be required... ;)
  • Now, that depends on your provider. I have ADSL from Bell Atlantic ( they ran a promotion last month ), and including ISP, they're charging me 50 u$s per month. They charge 50 u$s for the modem but they have a 50 $ rebate ( so it's 0$ ). The only catch is that you must agree to one year service ( you have a 30 day-trial period though).
    Now, I don;t know if other Bell Atlantic customer is reading this, but up to now I'm very happy with the service. And yes, I also hope that they'll not try to change my modem at the end of the year for the new ones.
  • I live in the philadelphia area, and signed up for an SDSL setup from Flashcom about two months ago. Well yesterday I finally got all wired, but now my DSL modem is apparantly timed out, but it got as far as to connect to the central office and download software (sort of like flashing your BIOS). They claim to be able to have the problem fixed by tonite, but then again two months ago they claimed they could have it installed in 10 working days.

    ARRRGGGGGG.... Need.... Bandwidth


    Tell a man that there are 400 Billion stars and he'll believe you
  • I don't see the technician's role ever being eliminated. When the telco installed adsl at my place, they had to muck w/ the wires outside. A simple modem standard isn't going to make this plug 'n play.

    Hope it becomes more popular though, it's fast as hell : )

  • seek counciling please

  • Cost (Score:1)

    by vipvop ( 34876 )
    One of the previous posters said he pays $50 a month for DSL. Now I know the cost varies depending on what speed you choose, but are there any other (hidden) fees? Im assuming you probably have to pay for the equipment, or at least lease one from them, but are there also fees for using the phone line or anything like that? I thought ISDN users had to pay for the line along with their monthly fees...
  • Well im sure ill be old and grey before hellsouth decides that they will offer anything more than ISDN here... places like Nashville already have it but the tennessee public service commission is much better than the bastards in alabama. Im sure ill get raped with charges that rival leased lines whenever DSL comes out... or maybe they'll try and meter every bit that squeaks through. Im getting raped now with ISDN and bellsouth im sure will rape us on DSL. bellsouth is like an out of control rapist/mistress. Microsoft is not who should be under scrutiny for anti trust it should be bellsouth!


    cluster
  • We've heard the promises before of high bandwidth. Will it ever materialize? Not unless the people who want/need it start letting cable, telephone, and other companies know its needed, and there's large amounts of motivation for the utilities to provide it. I live in an area serviced by GTE [gte.com] and I recall them stating that they are rolling out ADSL based the on customer demand. Sure. What I've seen so far is that they are in college towns/cities deploying DSL. That makes little sense, because almost anyone in those towns can go into the college and get what they need in a lab. How many college towns do you know of where there's two or less ISPs? There's an awful lot of people begging anyone for bandwidth. The telcos complain that they are losing money and in danger of their networks failing because of all the people who have more than one line so they can access the Internet. Duh. Give us real bandwidth and then your problems go away! All this beating around the bush is so the telephone companies can make money with all their fees for second/third/etc. lines. Folks, it's time to let your telco/cable co./ISP/etc. know you're tired of this stuff. Contact them, contact your public utilities commissions, contact your representatives, contact the Federal Commnications Commission, and get them to do something. Maybe if the people in government gave these companies a tax cut with the stipulation that they must provide high-bandwidth in a certain size area in a certain amount of time, the utilities would get up and get going.

    Then again we all know that it's the Utilities Mafia (there is no Utilities Mafia [tm]) that's behind this.

  • G.Lite vs. ADSL: cheap vs. higher quality (Score:5)

    by Cato ( 8296 ) on Wednesday June 23, 1999 @09:21AM (#1836777)
    G.Lite doesn't require a truck roll (i.e. a visit from an engineer), since it doesn't have a 'splitter' that separates the POTS (Plain Old Telephone System, i.e. phones, etc.) frequencies from the xDSL frequencies.

    This means you can just buy a G.Lite modem from whoever, plug it in, and start working (in theory) - the modem ideally is an analogue modem for when xDSL breaks and also so it can automagically request xDSL service for you via the modem link when first installed.

    You may also be able to get G.Lite service at some speed (maybe lower than ADSL) beyond 18,000 feet from the central office.

    The price you pay for this is that any POTS equipment's hook-on/off activity can disrupt the G.Lite modem (yes, it really is a modem :) and require both ends to do a 'fast retrain' lasting 1.5 seconds. Also badly-behaved POTS equipment could disrupt things even more, and in-home wiring quality is a big factor.

    My prediction, FWIW: people will get sufficiently annoyed with the G.Lite data getting disrupted that they'll convert their whole house to Voice over IP - either buying IP phones and using in-home networking over the existing phone wiring. Or they can keep their existing phones and wiring and just have a VoIP card in their Linux firewall that acts as a home PABX as well - park, hold, etc. Though hopefully with a nicer user interface... The end result is that there is no POTS voice whatsoever, everything is IP data or VoIP, all on top of G.Lite, hence no disruption...

    ADSL seems to be positioned as a premium service - due to the splitter being installed, it will cost more but will also enable pretty much guaranteed bandwidth independent of home wiring and on-off hook activity.

    There's a good article in IEEE Communications Magazine, May 1999, called 'Residential Broadband Architecture over ADSL and G.Lite: PPP over ATM' - talks a lot about how PPP sits on top of ATM, and how the xDSL provider only goes up to layer 2, with any layer 3 services (ISPs, video, other content) being supplied via ATM links direct to the provider. Since I work for an IP QoS company, I feel somehow this should be doable with IP, but that presumes an all-IP world which this architecture does not.
  • I'm sick of asymetric upload/download rates. Bell Atlantic is (trying) to install ADSL where I live and, while the download is fast (640K), the upload is only 90K. I agree that's better than modems, but come on! I don't want the internet to be a broadcast type medium, that's what TVs are for! I don't want another kind of TV.

    Why is it so outrageous to allow home users to have decent upload speeds? I say demand symmetric DSL!

  • Both ISDN and HDSL use something called Pulse Amplitude Modulation which is the physical layer of the connection. By the time the digital signal reaches the receiver, the levels have diffused into eachother. An equalizer goes through and restores the levels to their original values. By definition, it modulates and demodulates, but not in the typical sense like an analog modem.

    As for ADSL. ADSL does modulate and demodulate in the typical sense. A digital signal is encoded as a carrier wave and sent down the line to receiver. DMT or descrete multitone modulation uses the fast fourier transform as it's modulator and demodulator.

    'ADSL modem' is a valid term in every sense of the word.

    --
  • yea, and Bell Atlantic would give you a really crappy record deal.
  • I've got ASDL w/voice and I don't need any low pass filter for my voice line. There is no interference on my voice calls from the data circuit.
  • [Pay $50/mo for 384/128, but actually get 1.4Mb on the downlink :)

    This confirms what a USWest rep said to me about getting more bandwidth coming at you than you would expect. I am dipping my feet in the DSL waters at a mere 256/256 but the rep said realistically I should see close to twice that most of the time. The 256 is guaranteed and the rest is gravy. Gotta love it while it lasts!
  • If you want to pay extra for symmetric DSL, that's fine. Most providers will be glad to oblige you. However, the vast preponderance of my traffic (I have a cable modem) is downstream, so I am well served by asymmetric system. Rather than demanding what YOU want, I think it makes more sense to demand the option to get whatever fits your needs. Note that in most cases, we have that option.
  • Why only stop there? Bell Atlantic has already installed 7.1 Mbps DSL in Washington D.C. now, as for that system working, i dunno, but "supposedly" it is.

    On another note, Bell Atlantic has such as small coverage area with their DSL systems and get so few customers, it'll be a wonder if the idea spreads out of the main cities (Bell Atlantic is basically screaming for help in D.C. ~ offering 640Kbps DSL for $10 a month).

    Well, not to make this sound like an ad or anything, but you do know that the new standards aren't going to go anywhere in the consumer market if there is no show of interest in the test markets...

    And just to say, i just woke up from my first sleep in 72 hours (ahh, the joys of school), so i wouldn't take whatever i say at face value, but you definately can if you want...

    [mumble... mumble]
  • At least I do... Up here in Ontario, Bell "Sympatico" charges my company (available at home to) $39.99 CDN per month for ADSL. Fast too!

    This, was a hidden advertisement.
  • Just a note....There is absolutely nothing your ISP can do to get you DSL quicker, I work for one and believe me we'd love to be able to offer DSL, but the phone company has us just as tied up as any other customer. Ranting at your ISP will not solve the world's problems.

    Au contraire, GTE is big on openness. They've gone after the cable companies with AOL to open up their cable systems to allow other providers in. GTE lets ISPs provide service over their DSL offerings, so if Mom & Pop ISP wants to provide DSL speeds, they ask GTE about it. I've checked up on this. I've worked for an ISP, and they've put pressure on the telco to do something. Think for a minute how much your average ISP pays for the access lines. ISPs are basically the biggest customers, and if the telco wants to keep their customer happy and paying their bill, they should be listening to the customer. Those of you who are getting both DSL service and bandwidth from your telco are just allowing their monopoly to grow. Anyone who says they can't do that, even the cable companies, is full of it. I don't have the URLs handy for people to look at, but there's been some stories at News.com and you can also read GTE's site. Though I'm extremely not happy with GTE's attitude towards my local area, I have to credit them with openness.
  • I would never use a cable modem for non-secure
    transmissions, even if they offered the service
    free. Your neighbors can see every packet.

    My neighbors can barely tell the difference between a toaster oven and a computer. I'm not worried.

    Later
    Erik Z
  • I think a big one is who you go through for your ISP service. Depending on the area, the DSL provider, if it's not the local carrier, might have to install a second phone line (which you get to pay for) for the DSL connect, because rumor has it some Bells aren't playing nice and letting other DSL providers use the existing local line to the house.

    So $x for ISP service, $y for DSL provider, $z for phone line (x2 if 'nother line needed). I was looking at it, but thinking it would probably end up costing me about twice as much as Cable modem via Cox @Home here in SD, for lower speeds (but currently less restrictive usage agreement).
    Plus there is (imho) heavy out-of-pocket hardware & install expense...
  • While all the Americans are jabbering on about their DSLs and ADSLs and things, are there any Brits or Europeans in /.-land who knows the current status on fast access methods in the UK?
    I took a look at getting BT's "HomeHighway" ISDN product into the house about six months ago, but on examining the costings discovered it would about double my phone bills so I gave them the finger.
    Does the ITU's apporval of a DSL-type modem standard mean there is *any* chance of these things actually being *implemented* in the UK?
  • cisco:
    http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/cisco/mkt/ac cess/6000dsl/index.shtml

    alcatel:
    http://www.alcatel.com/telecom/asd/keytech/adsl/ adsl/page6.htm

    all the telco equip vendors have some kind of solution at this point, these are the two that come to mind first...
  • I signed up with PacBell too. I've never met such incompetent people in my life (except in Fry's). Of course the worst ones were the people I couldn't see. Why I had to wait 24 hrs for the router to allow me through is beyond my small little mind. Hell, I only waited 2 months for the techs to come out and give me the modem and splitter! You'd think the backend stuff would be done first.
    Once I got it working I've had no problems. It is the best thing I've done in years. Q3A and tribes rock with dsl. One IP address is a little cheap though. Oh well. Hmm, where's that HOWTO for IPchains...

  • Which is faster/cheaper?

    Will I ever get either one?

    Can I stay connected 24/7 with DSL?
    cable modems are alleged to be able to
    let me do this
  • Well, here's how the whole thing works out for me price wise [I'm the original $50 poster :) ]

    Regular phone line: approx $12 plus LD charges for voice calls

    DSL Line: $39/mo

    ISP [through Pacbell internet]: $10/mo

    Setup fee: $198 1 time [I've never been charged for this]

    The prices I got were on the condition that I sign a 1yr contract and used Pacific Bell Internet as the ISP. And includes the tech coming out to setup the splitter outside, wire the line inside, the DSL modem [Alcatel], and a Kensington PCI 10/100 card. Seemed like a good deal to me, and it's worked like a charm

    Ender

    I love the "swooshing" sound deadlines make as they go by.

  • The real issue with DSL (Score:3)

    by ciurana ( 2603 ) on Wednesday June 23, 1999 @09:41AM (#1836798) Homepage Journal

    First a word of clarification: There is no such thing as a DSL modem, just like there isn't such thing as an ISDN modem. The correct name is ATU/R or Adaptive Transceiver Unit/Remote.

    The G.lite DSL article misses the most critical point regarding DSL: Availability and quality of service within the subscriber's area. We've used Rythms Net Connections (mentioned in the article also) ADSL for roughly a year (very happily) and we found that the ATU/R was the least of our worries. The real problem was dealing with Pacific Bell, our local carrier.

    When we first requested DSL we had to wait until Pacific Bell installed the physical line, by far the biggest hurdle. Essentially, the telco must add a pair of wires to the local MPOE (minimum point of entry) to access the physical network. That installation took about a month. Installation of the ATU/R by Rythms technicians, including configuration (physical, IP,etc.) of all my Linux and Winblows boxes (6) took about 1 hour at no additional cost. This including laying the wires.

    Over the year we experienced a number of outtages thanks to PacBell's ineptitude. We've been able to trace line problems to them 99% of the time, the most recent one took us off-line for 36 hours because some Dumb Ass technician disconnected our DSL line "because he didn't hear a dial tone."

    Other problems included PacBell's reluctance to support anything other than Winblows or Mac and their condescending attitude, and their insistence on providing the NIC, hub, and ATU/R even if you already have the equipment (I had to install PacBell's ADSL at one of my developer's home and Rythms et. al. didn't service his area [Belmont, CA]). I won't even go into how hard it was for them to understand that my developer uses a laptop, thus his NIC is actually a PCMCIA card...

    Our advise when installing DSL: Get your service, if you can, from someone other than your local telco. Third party providers tend to be more expensive, but they provide 7x24 support, including hardware replacement, and at least 7 IP addresses per contract. We run a full development lab on 644 kbps ADSL without problems, and we're very happy.

    As for the ATU/R itself: We have a Paradyne Hotwire model 5446. It survived a surge PacBell sent up our DSL line without trouble.

  • In Southern California, I get my aDSL from Pacific Bell. The installation charge was $200, but if you sign up for a year (which I did) they waive that. The equipment (splitter, modem, NIC) was $199, but you can provide your own. I couldn't get the same stuff for cheaper, so I just got it from them.

    I pay $39 a month for their service. If I wanted their ISP, it would cost me another 10 bucks a month, but I basically have a $9.99 email address that I don't want to give up and use my localhost for everything. It works out really nice.

    The phoneline is a completely different thing. The DSL is charged to your regular phone bill (in fact, they $199 is spread out over four months), but it doesn't interfere/affect DSL at all.

    There is a VERY GOOD HOW-TO on DSL that should be in all the normal Linux places (at least on the SuSE CD's) that takes about 90% of the document to explain what DSL is and how it works, and the other 10% to tell you how to get it working on your system. It explains more than you'd ever want to know about it, and if you're thinking of getting DSL, it's a worthwhile toilet read (took me two sessions.)


    -mattyj@cts.com
  • last i heard, USWest (if you are "fortunate" enough to be in an area where they're located) charges about $50 a month for line and internet access and they throw in the adsl device for free. i think that's a 256k both ways. we usually get better throughput than we're paying for at work, but there have been times that USWest have had problems with their ATM and it's just a slug.
  • Sorry, I have the 640/90 ADSL and while its
    not amazingly fast for my web server it is
    not horrible... (note: taliesin.cx is not
    currently on this box, I'm experimenting with
    the home server)

    And you can bet that removing the A from ADSL
    would include adding a 0 to the end of the price.
    You see, the phone cos have no reason to
    canabalize their leased line services for servers.

    Not that it wouldn't be nice...
  • Actually, the technician could be eliminated on the customer side. All the technician is doing is installing a "splitter" on your existing phone line (essentially it splits the voice & data, not the line itself). It doesn't matter where this takes place on the phone line -- If the modem itself had, say, three jacks: two of which being RJ-11 phone jacks (one for the incoming line, one for the line running to your phone) and an RJ-45 ethernet adapter that would run to a computer, the splitting could very easily happen inside the modem itself, effectively making it "Plug and Play".

    -Dave Brooks
    dbrooks@remove-this.comstar.net

    --
    Dave Brooks (db@amorphous.org)
    http://www.amorphous.org

  • Heck, why not run your voiceband modem on the voice line and get that extra few KB per second? :-) (You'd have to have an ISP that lets you do it, of course...)

    --Joe

    --
  • "PPP over ATM' - talks a lot about how PPP sits on top of ATM, and how the xDSL provider only goes up to layer 2, with any layer 3 services (ISPs, video, other content) being supplied via ATM links direct to the provider. Since I work for an IP QoS company, I feel somehow this should be doable with IP, but that presumes an all-IP world which this architecture does not. "

    I don't know about PPP over ATM (isn't there a lot of cell tax for such a slow connection). You are right that we live in an IP world. I know for a fact that there are routers out there that do the following:

    It looks like ip, it goes in as ip, comes out as ip, so it must be ip right? wrong. IP over ATM (damm that was fast)

    Here's the solution:

    DMDS [newbridge.com]:
    "The Newbridge DMDS solution enables service providers to realize the potential of ADSL to offer a complete portfolio of broadcast voice, video and data services."
    -Martin Hall, chief technology officer, Stardust Forums and co-founder of the IP Multicast Initiative.

    Bottom Line: Voice + Data + Video over xDSL modem. Using ATM Switching to deliver to the distribution node (local CO) then ADSL to the jack in your living room. Woudn't that be nice if the telcos all got this thing? Then there would be some competition for the cable tv companies.

  • My ADSL is $55 dollars a month. I paid 350 for my router and that is all. I own my router, which I could have leased, and my installation was free. I also got a domain name, etc. But it was worth it.
  • Other problems included PacBell's reluctance to support anything other than Winblows or Mac

    When I ordered my DSL install about 2 weeks ago, they asked me if I was on a "PC, Mac, or Unix workstation." Perhaps things are improving?
  • you must be w/i 17000 feet of your local exchange for it to be physically possible. 10000 feet for full bandwidth. they probably haven't bought all the $10k equipment for all the surrounding exchanges yet. just call them a whole bunch about service and make sure they log your call. hell, ask for a pointy-hair and tell them how bad you want service.

    just an idea.

    -l
  • They both worked great, and cost the same ($50 per month). I didn't notice much difference in speed in real world use. The biggest difference was in policies - the @home (cable modem service) said I couldn't run servers on my machine. I can do whatever I want with the PacBell DSL line. To @home's credit, they didn't really enforce their policies, but the mere threat was enough to make me wary.

    I suspect this has something to do with phone companies enjoying 'common carrier' legal protection. (i.e. phone companies don't get in trouble for content that passes through their line; if criminals talk over the phone, you can't hold the phone company responsible.)

  • You don't understand the technology. Read up on why you can't "just do this".
  • I do this all the time.

    Use the main line for either voice telephone or else to use the internal modem (56K) to dial into my oldest ISP and muck with the files there while my DSL modem browses the web site through its connection.

    Sure, my speed drops, but since the pipe only goes 200-300 around here and I run 720, that only cuts me down to 360 and I'm still maxing the pipe.

    Will in Seattle
    hope my next house is in DSL service area ...
  • The technician's role has already been eliminated in Canada. Package was couriered to me that includes a Nortel 1Mb modem, ethernet card, phone filters. Installation took less than 1/2 hour.
    Uses the existing phone line (which can be used for voice/fax at the same time) and gives speeds of 1Mb down/ 120Kb up any time of day. No technician is required for anyone that can install a card in their computer.
  • Are you saying there was no installation work done at your house? If so, perhaps you have some sort of G.Lite but it is performing rather well...
  • My SDSL is 384K and it's $60/month. It's more expensive than cable because cable is not available where I live so there's no competition.

    Something that makes me really unhappy is that the very service I use is cheaper in the neighborhoods around my city where cable is available. Once these guys have to compete they'll have to either raise the speed or lower the price (or both) and making trasfer speeds symmetric is one more way to make their service more appealing.

    By the way, I signed up for ADSL from Flashcom but I got SDSL because ADSL wasn't available yet (yay!)

  • I'm not too familiar with DMDS but from a quick scan of the webpage it seems to map IP multicast onto ATM in an intelligent way. Certainly more IP-centric than the PPP over ATM approach, but it's really solving a different problem, focusing on multicast.

    The use of PPP and ATM appears due to the rigid regulatory separation between layer 1&2 services (from the xDSL provider) and layer 3+ services (from a content provider, network service provider). ATM lets the xDSL provider guarantee a certain QoS from the service provider direct to the home, preventing complaints of favouring one provider over another when both serve a given home.

    PPP runs over many leased lines anyway, so it's a sort of invisible tax - but I agree about the ATM cell tax. There is work going on in the IETF on something called ISSLOW, which is designed to fragment at the PPP level where needed - the idea is that you get down to ATM-like 'cell' sizes, but only need to do this on links where there is little bandwidth and you are mixing voice/video with data. The aim is to fragment the 1500 byte FTP packet so that the small voice packets can get in there without excessive delay (leading to jitter and crap voice quality).

    If you run ISSLOW everywhere it is worse than ATM, but on a single slow link it makes sense - on fast links a 1500 byte packet transmits in a vanishingly small time so it won't delay the VoIP packet (as long as the VoIP stuff gets to the front of the queue so to speak).

    For more details on QoS see www.qosforum.org, or the IETF site at www.ietf.org (check the diffserv, intserv, rsvp and rap efforts).
  • I pay $50/month for ADSL 1.5 Mbit down/128 Kbit up. To get such a great deal, I had to sign a one-year agreement, and the first three month's bills included the price of the equipment and installation... about $120 per month (I was one of the first to sign up, the price has gone down).

    I rave to anyone who listens about my service. I've got a Linux box as my gateway that's been up for 50 days now, and has several active connections to the internet that have been up just as long. I may not get the speed of the cable-modemers, but I don't get their problems either.
  • I'm typing this right now on exactly that setup in Ottawa.
    MAC level over ADSL (Flexcap2) to ATM all the way to montreal and then finally into IP country.

    It's pretty spooky, the tech support guy(all ADSL users get to know a tech support guy) in Toronto(I believe) can read me my firewalls MAC address..

    It's actually very well maintained really. As it goes more mainstream with the Nortel 1 Meg and Sympatico Highspeed or whatever, it's been slipping however. Used to be you could make a call and have a guy logged into the router at the other end fixing you up. Now the voice on the phone can't even ping you.

    I wish I could get my hands on one of their S/KEYS.

  • > ... There is no such thing as a DSL modem, just like there isn't such thing as
    > an ISDN modem. The correct name is ATU/R or Adaptive Transceiver Unit/Remote.

    The IEEE Communications article, by a technical architect who is involved in the ADSL Forum, talks about 'G.Lite modems' a lot, as well as ADSL modems. It also mentions ATU-R, where R=Residential, and ATU-C, C=Central, and defines both as ADSL modems (though the latter is usually integrated into the DSLAM = DSL Access Multiplexer).

    Anyway, I think the term modem is appropriate - it really does use similar DSP and analogue technologies to POTS modems, and has similar analogue problems with crosstalk, noise, etc.

    G.Lite is very new and you clearly have ADSL since there was installation work at your site - although it shares the central office problems of ADSL, it does at least mean you can buy and install the G.Lite modem yourself, just plugging it into the phone socket according to this article. Although you might need installation help, at least you don't have to buy it from the local telco.



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