ACPI and S3 Sleep on the Linux Desktop? 104
"For those of you not familiar with S3, this feature allows you to save the current state of your machine to RAM, power down all of your internal devices (PCI cards, AGP, CPU) and shut down down all your fans. The machine is now in a deep sleep, using but only a few watts to keep the RAM refreshed. Pressing a key or the power switch brings you back to your desktop and applications in a matter of seconds. In contrast to leaving your machine on constantly, and with today's high wattage processors and graphics cards, using S3 is not only environmentally friendly, but can save you more than a few bucks on your electric bill. Getting Linux and ACPI working is a whole other story. I have had no luck getting ACPI sleep states working on an Intel D875PBZ motherboard, even with extensive help from the gentlemen on the ACPI mailing list."
Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:4, Informative)
Not to say your experience is an exception. These are the first two computers where I've had it work, and only in the last 3 years. There were others where I work that didn't behave sufficiently to do S3 at all.
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:2, Interesting)
I've got a generic AMD Athlon machine I built from pieces with a recent MSI motherboard running Windows XP Pro that goes in and out of S3 perfectly. Press the power button or select suspend and the system saves the state to memory in a couple of seconds and powers off all the peripherals including the fans. Press power again (don't have a USB keyboard to try, but PS/2 keyboard doesn't
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:1)
Theres usually BIOS settings for waking it up from keyboard.
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:2)
I know that doesn't help you, but that's my experience.
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:4, Informative)
I suspend two or three times a day: I suspend it before I go to sleep, and before I leave work to take it home. Sometimes I listen to MP3s in the morning while I'm getting ready for work and I suspend it when I leave to go to work. I reboot maybe once every month, sometimes I go longer without a reboot. This is using a real mix of software: Cygwin, xemacs, resin, Oracle 9, Mozilla, SecureCRT, Winamp, Photoshop, MS Outlook, Cisco VPN client, OpenOffice, Propellerheads Reason, ACID Pro, and even some games (Warcraft III, Diablo II, Dungeon Siege). All work without causing any problems and without needing to reboot.
I'd say that you have faulty hardware if you haven't been able to get anything to suspend with all of those operating systems.
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:1)
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:2)
It can b done and slowly a lot of big companies want it for their desktops. Power and especially room heat are issues now, especially outside the US where energy prices are higher. If a business PC isn't working, particularly overnight or at weekends then it should sleep.
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:2)
Re:Sleep on an x86 machine (Score:2)
My first desktop (IBM something or other) was a 486/100 running Windows 95. Suspend and sleep worked great.
My first laptop (Fujitsu Lifebook 765 Dx) was a P166 running Windows 95 OSR2.1. Suspend, sleep, and hibernate (suspend to disk) worked flawlessly. It's now running DragonflyBSD; suspend and sleep still work.
My work systems running Windows 98, 2000, and XP all suspend and sleep without problems (Seanix, Compaq, and Dell systems). My laptop running FreeBSD 5.x has working s
Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:5, Informative)
Hope this helps.
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:1)
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:2)
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:4, Funny)
Is that a requirement?
I can just hear myself on the phone with my mom "OK
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:1)
My mom doesn't even want to suspend to RAM you insensitive clod.
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:1)
1) Havn't you heard of menu items?
2) Havn't you heard of shell scripts?
3) If you are supporting your mom and she doesn't have a network connection and vncserver running on her machine you are stupid
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:2)
2) Havn't you heard of shell scripts?
3) If you are supporting your mom and she doesn't have a network connection and vncserver running on her machine you are stupid
Yeah - you are right. Silly me. All of that is so much easier than the hardware simply suspending to RAM when the lid is closed as part of the Laptop's default behavior.
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:2)
It's very trivial to configure acpid to switch to S3 when the lid shuts, and I'm just surprised more distributions don't ship like that out of the box (though I have a feeling Mandrake does).
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:2)
I don't have a laptop, so I had never tried a sleep or suspend mode until fairly recently. I've never tried it on Linux. I did it several times on my WinXP machine, and stopped because it would only come out of it half the time. I wonder why it is
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:2)
You're such a patient son! I just tell her to turn it off at the power strip, and that the filesystem check is the normal startup procedure.
Re:Dell Latitude C610 Sucess(mostly) (Score:2)
"OK - Mom
"Nevermind mom,
Powerbook users experience (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Powerbook users experience (Score:2)
acpi=off noapic nolapic (Score:2)
A buddy of mine was having the same issue with Gentoo, so I think its a common issue. Wonder how the BSD kernel support for nforce is stable?
I've stuck with the 2.4 kernel on my servers for now, if my workstation isn't stable on 2.6.x, its not
As with Win95, so with Linux now (Score:3, Informative)
Windows 95 was often accused of being incredibly unstable, on through Windows 98. ME got weird, but many found it more stable. And with XP and 2000 it seems to have gotten rock solid. Is this the kernel maturing? Only slightly.
Drivers for all versions of Windows and Linux run in ring 0. They have the capability to bring the kernel down just as hard as a bug in the memory manager. This is the cost of not running a true microkernel, but it's been found often too hard to efficiently transfer large am
Re:As with Win95, so with Linux now (Score:2)
Heck, your machine might even have been in a stable state until you brought it awake from hibernating.
*sigh*, yes this, methinks, happened to me. I have a dual-boot WinXP Pro/Gentoo Linux (2.6.3-Current) system that went into hibernation in Windows and I brought it back up in Linux--not realizing the peril therein. I still (1 month later) can't get the WinXP mode to boot. Any run level results in the damn thing hanging--before the system starts to boot up.
I mean, I use Grub to boot into Windows, and th
Re:As with Win95, so with Linux now (Score:1)
When you go to hibernate, it writes to a specific partition block on disk to save the state of RAM. I believe you can either overwrite the contents of this partition with zeroes or just blow it away entirely, and then you should be able to boot fine. If you can at least get far enough to press F8, this might help. [microsoft.com] There's also some info which might be related here [microsoft.com], but it seems Win95 specific.
To be honest, though, I've never troubleshot such a problem. I wouldn't even have a suggestion for what tool to
Re:acpi=off noapic nolapic (Score:2)
Re:acpi=off noapic nolapic (Score:2)
Very cool
My iBook (Score:1)
Its just so much easier unplugging everything and closing the screen than it is waiting for the machine to boot down, and of course the same goes for booting up.
I wouldn't do without it now.
(Last "reboot" was two weeks ago, after an apple update)
Not for me, personally... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sure it's a valuable feature for those who really use it, and that there are many advantages that people will point out like saving application states etc. But for me and everyone I know, except the laptop users I mentioned whose hardware automatically suspends, we either have our PC's on 24/7 or turn them off when not in use. Mine is on 24/7 for broadband filesharing, while the average users I know just turn their computers on and off as needed.
Personally, I found myself wanting an application-specific suspend-to-disk option for saving Mozilla tabs whenever I have to reboot every few weeks for hardware/driver/general-wonkyness reasons, since I have the nasty habit of queueing up a bunch of pages for later reading. But I've never had a reason personally to want to suspend the whole system state.
Save your Mozilla tabs (OT) (Score:2, Insightful)
You can use Tab Browser Extentions to save your tab session [sakura.ne.jp], either on log off automatically, or manually. Be warned, there is some slightly weird menu placement, partially due to the fact that the author is not a native English speaker. I believe Opera does this automatically, with Nordic instead of Japanese authors.
Re:Not for me, personally... (Score:2)
Suspend to disk ROCKS man... (Score:1)
I prefer to be insensitive to power loss and pay a small penalty in startup time. If I've hibernated a system, I know that if I leave the laptop unplugged too long, or if the PC gets moved and consequently unplugged, I'm fine. I move hardware more often than I'd like. LiveCDs are fun to play with too. Don't lose your state, and pay less of a penalty in boot time.
Long before hibernate was commonly available, I thought that suspend to
Re:saving moz tabs (Score:1)
Session saver is so smart that it can figure out when you have multiple windows with multiple tabs and your browser crashes.
Re:Not for me, personally... (Score:1)
Re:Not for me, personally... (Score:1)
Re:Not for me, personally... (Score:2)
The sleep states aren't widely advertised in the Windows world. Mac users are, from what I read, fond of the sleep mode. That fact that the LED on Mac machines "snores" (flashed briefly with and increasing intesity, followed by a decreasing intensity) reall
sleep vs. restart (Score:1)
sleep is good. If I can't get any, at least my computer can.
seriously, it wakes up in 4 or 5 seconds. It takes almost a minute to restart.
Panther seems to restart a lot faster than Jaguar. Anyone else notice this or am I just hallucinating again?
Embedded systems could benefit from this greatly.. (Score:2)
Re:Embedded systems could benefit from this greatl (Score:1)
Not quite ACPI (Score:1)
Re:Not quite ACPI (Score:1)
You should try patching the kernel with their patches, although older versions are kinda hard to find it looks like.
Re:Not quite ACPI (Score:1)
Use APM suspend, not ACPI suspend (Score:3, Informative)
ACPI is apparently really, really hard to get right, and not just for the OS developers. Hardware vendors typically screw it up, too (which causes even more pain for the programmers).
APM, however, is pretty well-supported in Linux. On all five of the machines I've used as "mine" in the last three or so years, suspend has worked just fine -- as long as I disabled ACPI and used APM instead.
Re:Use APM suspend, not ACPI suspend (Score:2)
2. Apparently, it's just that hard for computer hardware manufacturers to make ACPI work. The heterogeneous nature of x86 doesn't help any, though.
Re:Use APM suspend, not ACPI suspend (Score:5, Informative)
apm -s works perfectly for me. The thing will sleep all weekend just like that, and power up instantly when the top is opened.
Re:Use APM suspend, not ACPI suspend (Score:2)
Computers made in the last couple of years still have APM?
UPS just delivered my brand new IBM ThinkPad T40 yesterday, and APM suspend works perfectly.
Re:Use APM suspend, not ACPI suspend (Score:3, Informative)
APM is only defined for single CPU machines. APM + SMP (Hyperthreading counts as a secondary CPU!) simply does not work with Linux (except for power-off via APM) last time I checked (2.4.20+n).
I wish my old Dell dual CPU machine had ACPI so I could shut it down using the power button. But alas, APM does not "hook" the power button like ACPI does, so pressing the power button is just like unplugging the power cord - a bad idea. For now, ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t5 -h now in /etc/inittab must do the jo
Macs don't sleep to disk (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm also impressed that included in this is logic to notice hardware changes when the system is asleep (ok, more like cat-napping). For example, I typically shut the lid and disconnect my network cable at work, then bring it home and wake it to my WiFi router, OSX will automatically sense and join the new network (same in reverse). The network libraries are robust enough to not cause terrible application-level errors or crashes.
Same goes for recognizing the plugging in or removal of an external monitor during sleep, as well as all the USB devices I've tried.
I can't say I tried disconnecting a Firewire drive or PCMCIA device during sleep, which I won't try since they probably should be properly dismounted. But I bet it would mount a device while asleep (or very shortly after waking).
Granted if you took the battery out it would probably dump everything in ram, unless there's some kind of internal backup battery specifically for last minute graceful shutdown everything. But I guess that's the trade-off for not having to wait while half a gig of ram transfers to and from the disk.
Personally I would say Linux is a good year from this level of sleep mode, but then I don't follow kernel dev too closely, so who knows.
Re:Macs don't sleep to disk (Score:5, Insightful)
Same goes for recognizing the plugging in or removal of an external monitor during sleep, as well as all the USB devices I've tried.
FY(and others)I XP also does all this quite well IME. Win2k somewhat less so. I've no experience using Windows 9x on laptops.
The only thing that gets a bit flaky IME is detecting external monitors when multi-monitor (ie: spanning) is being used. My D600 used to often either not detect the monitor had been unplugged (hence leaving the bit of the Desktop that had been spanned inaccessible) and/or not detect when a new monitor had been plugged in (hence requiring eith er a visit to Display Properties or another Sleep/wake cycle).
Granted if you took the battery out it would probably dump everything in ram, unless there's some kind of internal backup battery specifically for last minute graceful shutdown everything. But I guess that's the trade-off for not having to wait while half a gig of ram transfers to and from the disk.
PBs seem to have a backup battery to keep the RAM refreshed while the main battery is not present. How long it lasts I never checked accurately, but my old PB 667 certainly used to survive the typical trip through the X-Ray machine suspended - so at least a few minutes (it won't keep for a day, however).
Re:Macs don't sleep to disk (Score:1)
The problem in disconnecting devices like drives while the machine is sleeping is that the device has been shutdown (in particular if, like for an iPod it gets the power from the bus) and parked, but the filesystem has not been u
Re:Macs don't sleep to disk (Score:2)
As long as the session is quiescent while my laptop is asleep, and I wake it back up within a few hours, I very rarely have a ssh session fail to respond.
Just a few minutes ago, I woke my powerbook back up after it had been asleep for a half hour or so. Once it reconnected to my airport base station, all of the SSH sessions I had been running were fine. These included sessions to local machines, as well as a c
Re:Macs don't sleep to disk (Score:2)
Ideally you would have some (dare I call it intelligent?) way of determining when to disconnect ssh sessions on suspend. I simply cannot think of one, short of using different suspend buttons for "Sleep during lunch" and "I'm going home".
Just my $0.02...
"resume" with ssh - use screen (Score:1)
I have half a dozen login sessions on my box at home running under screen for *months* at a time.
I can go to work, ssh to my home box, type "screen -rd" and get back to where I left off at home. The apps continue to run just fine and as they are attached to a pty, xterm resizes (or a re-attach from a different sized xterm) are not a problem. (except for btlaunchmanycurses.py Grrrrr...)
What gets really handy is when you use screen-aware apps like elinks, and you get t
Re:"resume" with ssh - use screen (Score:2)
Re:Macs don't sleep to disk (Score:2)
Linux on x86, perhaps, but that's at least partly a hardware/APM/ACPI issue; PCs have historically had big problems with any sort of sleep mode, regardless of OS. Linux on Mac hardware, on the other hand, has much the same suspend-to-RAM behaviour as MacOS.
I've used Linux 2.4.2x and 2.6.5 on my Powerbook; both do pretty much what you said, but they're slower to sleep and
Re:Macs don't sleep to disk (Score:2)
My Debian laptop does this -- when I shut the lid it suspends to RAM and I r
Tecra 8000 Success (Score:3, Informative)
No luck on Shuttle SN41G2. (Score:2)
Apple Kit (Score:1)
-
mac perspective (Score:2)
You can just close the lid at any time, while playing a movie, while listening to music, etc.. and it just works. A little LED begins to gently pulse on and off and the machine is in a sleep state.
I have left it in this sleep state for really long periods of time, like a day or two. After coming out of sleep, it doesn't seem to have discharged the battery at all (always lik
Re:mac perspective (Score:2)
Also, I have a Lombard G3 and the power management support under OS X is sorta half-assed and was terribly buggy until 10.2. Even under 10.3 it's less reliable than my PC laptops (video corruption on wakeup sometimes). Its' not the
S3=Instant-on. Why don't more people use it? (Score:2)
I've got my laptop set up so when I press the power button, it enters "standby" (Oh, this is WinXP), and its off, almost instantly.
When I want to use it again, I press power, and its on, in about 2 seconds. I reboot maybe once a month, generally for config changes.
I don't know how much power S3 uses, but its not much. My battery is fuct, and I only get 30mins of use now, but I've left my lappy on stan
Re:S3=Instant-on. Why don't more people use it? (Score:2)
Inspired me.. (Score:5, Informative)
Compile a kernel with suspend-to-swap and acpi.
Install acpid (apt-get install acpid)
in
# your label and swap partition will probably be different
echo "4" >
And that's all. Works perfectly for me, I just tested it.
Re:Inspired me.. (Score:1)
. This is suspend-to-disk, not suspend-to-ram, as originally mentioned.
. Although it appeared to be working, the system came back up with root mounted read-only. The quick and easy solution is to have a lilo 'resume' label, append the 'resume' option and don't use read-only. Now it all seems to be working.
. It takes almost as long to suspend/resume as my moderately optimised boot takes!
. Be aware that many daemons will have no concept of sleeping, and will get really confuse
S3 on several linux boxes (Score:3, Interesting)
The word on the Fujitsu is that it is actually working properly, but that the PCI bus and/or radeon card doesn't refresh properly upon wake-up.
This is not a version of "working properly" that works very well for me. No screen, no network. Tough to work with. I think swsusp is the stand-in du jour.
I was hoping that the new Knoppix would help me get this going.
Good luck to you. I'm sure that those smart kernel hackers will bring us this good stuff eventually.
I don't like S3 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I don't like S3 (Score:2)
The OS, through ACPI can update the RTC wake up time in the BIOS before going to sleep. It works with task scheduler in windows, and there is probably an API for setting it programatically.
But it is not supported by the bios in all machines.
To see what capabilities your system has download this utility from microsoft and enter "dumppo cap"
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/Products/Oemtest/v1 . 1/WOST est/Tools/Acpi/dumppo.exe
Re:I don't like S3 (Score:2)
I have a TV tuner card which has in hardware the ability to power the PC on, log in to Windows, record a show, and log back out.
I don't know how it does this nor do I want to, but it involves running power leads from the card to the mobo and case to card.
I think the card draws enough standby power to keep an RTC and a relay running...at the appointed hour-10min or so, relay flips, "switches" on, Windows reads some saved statefile, logs in, records.
This should be a huge embarassment.. (Score:1, Interesting)
My Compaq laptop shipped with Win98ME and works (mostly) fine in W2K adn WXP.
So why, more than 3 years later, is Linux still without decent ACPI support?
Re:This should be a huge embarassment.. (Score:1)
Sleeping Computers (Score:1)
Win XP experience (Score:2)
I do this mainly because it is much faster than a shut down + startup. And also because I will have many programs open and I just want to pause what I'm doing and come back later.
Unfortunately this leads me to avoid shutting down at all in order to keep browser windows open mostly. Though I saw a post about a plugin for firefox to save just the tabs to disk, instead of me having to
sleep on the desktop (Score:1)
S3 is a bad idea IMHO (Score:2)
Re:S3 is a bad idea IMHO (Score:3, Funny)
"Suicide prevention put me on hold."
You said you were going to hang yourself and they told you to hold the line?
Hang in there...
Re:S3 is a bad idea IMHO (Score:2)
It occurs to me that they achieve the same thing...
Hibernate is the commonly used term for Suspend-to-disk, and I thought that Standby was the commonly used term for Suspend-to-RAM...
Re:S3 is a bad idea IMHO (Score:1)
Works fine for me on a Thinkpad R50p (Score:2)
Things are much better for me more recently though, now I have built X.Org R6.7 [freedesktop.org] and my Radeon Mobility 9700 is all good to go too.
If you don't want to build your own kernels, you needn't do that either. The lat
Psh ... I'd be happy ... (Score:2)
Personal arsonal, acpi issues (Score:1)
getting a doze box to SLEEP is easy, bringing it back up has historically caused crash issues (on nforce1, a via kt333 and nforce2 running 2kpro), linux acpi has been limited to power off. though on the PII's i have the acpi stuff disabled in the kernel (read; not there), since I NEVER, turn them off unless i'm swapping UPS's or moving them. I could put the appropriate module in, but i'm j
Just wanted to chime in about the Inspiron 8200 (Score:2, Insightful)
APM works, sorta. Resume from suspend fails about 30% of the time. 20% of the time, resume works okay, but the system is really slow, and the fan stays on 'high' (really noisy) speed.
ACPI is broken. Battery, buttons, temperature, etc. . . can work, if you use a modified DSDT.
S1,S3 don't work. S1 doesn't resume, S3 doesn't turn the screen backlight off. S4,S4b resume about 60% of the time, but it already takes so long to come back up I might as we
Help my find this laptop. (Score:1, Redundant)
Here are my requirements (given that I will be running linux):
1. Must do ACPI suspend, S1+S3
2. Must have a good 3D video card, Radeon 9600/Geforce FX GO 5650 or up.
3. Decent battery life would be nice.
4. Integrated bluetooth+Intergrated 802.11b
Don't tell me to get a powerbook. I have a 12" G4 laptop DVI. I want linux, with suspend. Can't do that on the powerbook. Mac OSX is wonderful. Yes, yes. I want a linux laptop with suspend.
Don't want to do suspend to disk, I want the thing to
Re:Help my find this laptop. (Score:2)
Actually, you probably can. Debian unstable works fine for me on a 15" Titanium Powerbook (the 1GHz one with DVI), and as I've commented above, suspend-to-RAM is fine (just install pmud and run it in the background; to sleep, close the lid or run
Unfortunately, the more recent Powerbooks have Airport Extreme, which isn't supported under Linux (because "Airport Extreme" cards are based on Broadcom chipset
Re:Help my find this laptop. (Score:2)
I guess I had only been looking at the Yellow Dog pages as to whether or not suspend to ram would work.
Would an airport regular card work in my powerbook? I got an airport extreme card (because thats what was avaliable on the refurbished site). Hmm...
Food for thought, anyways
Re:Help my find this laptop. (Score:2)
For recent Mac hardware in 2.4, you should apply a recent "benh" kernel patch to the appropria
Thinkpad R40 and APM suspend (Score:2)
And yes, I was surprised. It's my first computer to ever do this...
My Two Cents (Score:2)
It certainly took a while to get there, especially since I originally attempted to use the Dell/RedHat suspend-to-disk-partition-building tools, which did not work at all, but now I've got it saving to swap and I'm golden.
In fact, I dual-boot Windows XP and Linux on my laptop (for games
Sleep on PPC. (Score:1)
Just thought I'd offer a non x86 perspective.
--saint
Possible alternative (Score:2)
Of course, this doesn't shut everything down, so it wouldn't be appropriate to put your laptop in its bag and take it to work like this.
Suspend to RAM support on Linux... when? (Score:1)
bought my laptop computer and from the first
day I was able to suspend to RAM while using W2K.
But unfortunately I do most of my work on Linux,
it is unbelievable but even if I tried hard to
configure ACPI on Linux I haven't yet been able
to use any power saving feature other than halt.
Why does the development of ACPI support on Linux
evolves so slowly?