Control Digital Audio With Turntables 290
Anonymous Coward writes "Harmony Central has a NAMM article about FinalScratch which is a digital audio controller technology for Linux/BeOS, so DJ's can play digital audio and keep the tactile control of the turntable. Some interesting technology there, and a further push for digital audio." Another one for CowboyNeal's birthday
list.
hmmmm (Score:1, Insightful)
but is the music produced still the same as done by "hand"?
Re:hmmmm (Score:1, Insightful)
download the tools (Score:2)
Re:hmmmm (Score:2)
It's fun to play with for those of us who can't afford a rack of gear but do have a moderate spec PC.
Re:hmmmm (Score:1)
Re:hmmmm (Score:1, Redundant)
fucking right. your grandmother was telling me the other day about how when you and hemos come by to give her shit baths, you always fuck it up. you do this partially because you like to drink the shit, and dont want to pour it all over her, but mostly you fuck it up because you are an idiot and have no clue what you are doing.
old (Score:1, Insightful)
Far older (Score:1)
Yes, it's old. But.... (Score:1)
Turntables vs. CD's (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Turntables vs. CD's (Score:1)
Re:Turntables vs. CD's (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe so, but have you recently listened to a well-made record on a good turntable? The sound is absolutely incredible, and I think many people would honestly conclude (1) that analog is not dead and (2) digital recording isn't as great as it's cracked up to be.
Re:Turntables vs. CD's (Score:1)
Re:Turntables vs. CD's (Score:1)
Now, have you ever listened to a record on a good pair of flat-frequency reference monitors? Sounds like crap, frankly.
The fallacy of the vinyl-vs-digital debate is that there's the assumption that you're using the same material for comparison.
Not even close. When a track is mastered to vinyl, it goes through a LOT of compression (the audio kind, not the data kind) and EQ'ing, especially in the low-mids (IIRC). A CD has an entirely different mastering process and technique-set (more work with the highs and high-mids, less compression).
If you listened to a linear source on a CD player, it'd sund a lot better than a linear source on vinyl. And a vinyl source on CD would sound terrible, and vice versa. In the end, a good mastering engineer can make soething sound good on any medium. That's where the serious audio is, not in the output format.
Re:Turntables vs. CD's (Score:2)
There's no compression of the audio or data kind (and technically, the audio kind == the data kind).
The equalization (emphasis) used in the recording of vinyl records is for noise (hiss) reduction. The high-end signal is increased (pre-emphasis) when recorded. Upon playback, the turntable preamp reduces the high-end signal level (de-emphasis). This also reduces the high-frequency noise (hiss) of dragging a stylus through a groove cut (well, pressed) in a material that exhibits surface roughness.
This is somewhat similar, at least to my ear, to what early-version Dolby noise reduction does. If you play a Dolby-recorded tape on a player that doesn't have the circuitry to decode it, it sounds "brighter." That is, the high-frequency range is louder than it "should" be.
Since there's no mechanism for a CD to hiss, this kind of noise reduction isn't needed.
Oddly, from what I understand a few early CDs were indeed recorded with the vinyl pre-emphasis added. Ick. Now *that* would sound bad. CD players have never had de-emphasis circuits!
Re:Turntables vs. CD's (Score:3, Interesting)
Not only Linux and BeOS (Score:2)
Re:Not only Linux and BeOS (Score:1)
Re:Not only Linux and BeOS (Score:1)
This isn't really new ... (Score:3, Informative)
I have to take issue with one thing in the harmony central article ... it says the records contain a time code. What do you do when you break these special records? ...
Re:This isn't really new ... (Score:1)
Re:This isn't really new ... (Score:1)
You buy another one for $12 US. If you're a pro, you buy a whole bunch when you first set up to cover the inevitable breakages.
Jesus, how often do you guys break records? I mean, I'm sure it can happen, but I've been DJing on and off for 9 years and I've never actually broken a record. Maybe a record coffin is in order.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Ghandi
Re:This isn't really new ... (Score:1)
Richie Hawtin (Score:5, Informative)
hummer
Richie Hawton and Final Scratch (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Richie Hawtin (Score:1)
Can you smell the Vaporware? (Score:1, Troll)
It's really a nice idea, stratch some digital information to communicate how your scratching, and then let the computer scratch whatever audio. However, I think it's going to be vaporware for sometime as I think they're having problems with the hardware.
Re:Can you smell the Vaporware? (Score:2)
Re:Can you smell the Vaporware? (Score:1)
Play digital the analog way! Due to the many reactions that we received, we decided to build a limited "ProFS" series for professional DJ's only, and made this available as of October 1st, 2001.
Re:Can you smell the Vaporware? (Score:2, Informative)
This product is real. I've seen it with my own eyes, played with it with my own hands. It's real, and very,
very cool.
Re:Can you smell the Vaporware? (Score:1)
Re:Can you smell the Vaporware? (Score:1)
a unique feature of scratch is that there's no audible latency, so you can even scratch live inputs (ie talk into the mic, and scratch your voice as you talk).
Re:Can you smell the Vaporware? (Score:2, Interesting)
What Wired, BBC and several news organisations covered was a 'proof of concept' prototype. It used ordinary soundcards and had a simple interface device to control the software. Problems with cueing, noise, high seek latency were so great that a new interface was designed and new code was written to allow the new (USB) interface.
The BeOS version version worked quite well, but BeOS fell and Stanton Magnetics wanted an equally reliable system, so the obvious choice was Linux. The "Mac version" is indeed just 'vapourware', but at worst, Linux can be ran out of Mac in much the same way the commercial version can run Linux out of a Windoze filesystem. (After release, there will be a dedicated Linux version and hopefully the same for Mac.) Anyone who knows Linux can hack it now to play out of the ext2/3 filesystems.
As to "competition" that uses vinyl records, the patent is granted (hardware patent) and is infringing on N2IT. As to latency, you can call anything under 50mS "no latency" as human perception is not all that fast. With a scope and some fancy tricks, we've measured the latency of the Linux and BeOS systems and both are a fraction of what you can call "no latency".
We'd like to stay clear of this debate and the actual measured values are a company secret. Even an analogue record has 'latency', so claims of 'no latency' are false, unless they do use the well established 50mS as the imperceivable point and market as 'no latency'.
FinalScratch has been tested by a wide range of DJ styles from some of the biggest names in the business. Even the 'fast scratchers' cannot tell it from vinyl. The only serious fault I find is it sounds 'obviously digital', like all DJ cd players, when ran at super slow speeds.
Bill Squire
Electrical Engineer
N2IT Development BV
Amsterdam, NL
Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:1)
It strikes me as odd to make the product for Linux and BeOS first, and then port to Mac, as the article says. Does anyone know of a huge underground of Linux using pro DJ's I have have somehow missed?
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:2, Informative)
Tascam's SX-1 [tascam.com] mixing console runs BeOS.
Level Control Systems [lcsaudio.com] has been using BeOS to control their system for a long time
(it was used for the Nagano winter olympics opening ceremoney, various Broadwar shows and the Hollywood Bowl, for example).
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:1)
Final Scratch is a stand-alone product. You do not need to use it in conjunction with any other software. Nor is it designed to be used with other programs. And seeing as DJ's will probably use their Final Scratch laptop exclusively for DJ-ing they won't care what OS it runs.
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:3, Insightful)
It matters alot which OS the system uses. There are three important factors in scratching: latency, latency, and
Older Macs may have been good at this because they weren't preemtively scheduled, so the scratching app could grab control and never let go. Not the best way to make friends, but it does keep latency down.
On the "real" OS side (no, a non preemptively scheduled, non protected OS is not a real OS, which apple understood, and which is why they spent so much time and effort to finally get one) BeOS was the only OS with any decent latency. Understandable; it was designed from the ground up to do this sort of thing w/o breaking a sweat. NB: QNX is realtime, which doesn't guarantee low latency, but rather "merely" guarantees that bounds exist, not that the bounds are low.
You gotta figure, when you're mixing 180 bpm songs, that's ~300ms per beat, so a 150ms latency is the difference between perfect and couldn't-be-worse. Also, you need to take the whole input chain into account -- not just one context switch, but rather: sampling input => timecode conversion => cueing of mp3 track => decode => output. Each one of these will involve several context switches if you are unlucky. Each context switch adds unknown potential latency. It can pretty quickly add up to +/- 150 ms. Worst of all, you don't know how much (can't read the clock -- that's a syscall == latency).
So in summarium: BeOS is a natural. Older macs may be ok, by virtue of being too stupid to be in the way. Neither Mac OS X and Linux stand the proverbial snowball's chance of pulling this off.
Of course, now you throw low latency patches into the mix... round and round it goes, where it will stop nobody knows.
Alternately, a kernel module may be able to do something decent, but that basically a hack to acheive the level of sophistication of old Macs.
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:1)
and i can't find it right now, but i also read another article somewhere that showed that os x had virtually no latency when doing dedicated audio, so i think os x probably stands a snowball's chance here.
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:2)
Linux Audio Systems
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:1)
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:1)
Bill Squire
Electrical Engineer
N2IT Development BV
Amsterdam, NL
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:2)
Re:Lotta Linux using DJ's out there? (Score:1)
i've got a G4 350, does all the sound manipulation i need.. well... i have pushed it in Reason when i was running 25 synths at the same time,... that made a bit of skipping, heheh..
----
www.djneoform.com
Re:what for? (Score:3, Funny)
Like Ayn Rand novels?
Definitely Off-Topic - was: Re:what for? (Score:2)
Watching capitalists in action has definitely soured me on unbridled capitalism - the way big business conducts itself is disgusting to me, and I fear it more than big government (especially since big business subverts the government - witness DMCA and UCITA, just for starters). And Rand's strident condemnation of charity and welfare grates somewhat too.
But I still think she's a hell of a writer and I still reread Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead every few years. Her vision of man as heroic and life as a wonderful thing to be made the most of are very appealing - even if reality often falls short.
You are certainly entitled to your opinions on this, but I disagree.
On the other hand, "rap music" is a contradiction in terms. (Ooops, I guess that giant sucking sound is my karma heading south.)
Re:what for? (Score:2)
Re:what for? (Score:2)
All this effort so alleged "artists" can make that nasty scratching noise with a computer? Shit, why bother?
It's like there's some media conspiracy to promote rapping/DJ's as some sort of artists - like the way the Chris Rock show keeps (kept?) raving about "grandmaster flash" - what a load of crap.
I'm not often moved to remember Ayn Rand's writings, but this brings to mind the talk Ellsworth Toohey gives near the end of The Fountainhead about how to destroy the arts by continuously promoting the mediocre or worse. (Yes I'm kissing my karma goodbye - oh well.)
Yes I quoted my whole post to get out from under the moderation nazi's.
Dimbulb moderators: just because you disagree with something doesn't make it a troll. Blow me.
Re:Parent if OT. (Score:1)
need Trance? DJ Skaven (Score:1)
Trance/Hard Trance/Deep Trance
this is probably the coolest idea i've ever seen for mixing in mp3s... cueing mp3s is almost impossible if you're used to cueing up with the fine-tuning that vinyl allows you. I really hope to see this technology take off. Lord knows there are a bunch of hard-to-find records out there that are only made in a limited supply batch. Hats off to FinalScratch. Anyone know of any other devices such as this? please post if ou do...
Birthday present? (Score:1)
Adam Ant said it best..... (Score:3, Funny)
Don't give me chish-chash in rinky dink time
Just vive le rock, vive le rock
- Vive Le Rock, by Adam Ant and Marco Pirroni
visual cues (Score:2, Informative)
Re:visual cues (Score:1)
What I know... (Score:1)
No BeOS support (Score:1, Informative)
On a little side note I would like to say that this is not true; with patches all modern x86 platform (with the exception of specific hardware of course) will work with BeOS. A german group of BeOS users has set out to release the patches along with BeOS 5.0 (pe or pro, not known). The project can be found at www.yellowtab.com.
Rasmus Ekman
rasmus.ekman(a)telia.n0spammers.com
terminatorX (Score:4, Informative)
terminatorX is a realtime audio synthesizer that allows you to "scratch" on digitally sampled audio data (*.wav, *.au, *.mp3, etc.) the way hiphop-DJs scratch on vinyl records. It features multiple turntables, realtime effects (buit-in as well as LADSPA plugin effects), a sequencer and an easy-to-use gtk+ GUI.
There's a tutorial [terminatorx.cx] which explains how to take advantage of the support for a second mouse attached to the serial port which can be plugged into a dead turntable and controls the software, allowing users to make scratches with a real turntable for that hiphop look'n'feel. Check it out, it's a great project.
Re:terminatorX (Score:1)
Best of all, this integrates into an existing setup. I can mix real records with MP3's in real time.
The most significant flaw I can see with this (and it may very well not be an issue) is that of what I hear when cueing. My mixer has a nice set of options for the cue headphones and anything new I get would have to either match it or beat it.
The biggest advantage TerminatorX has over this is going to be price. I already have/use TerminatorX and spent my $400 on a new Gina24 sound card from EchoAudio. (Mmmmm... Tasty...) But I'd be willing to bet that this will be the next big thing in DJ technology. God Willing, it'll stop the featuritis that a lot of the CD vendors have...
Re:terminatorX (Score:2, Informative)
Re:terminatorX (Score:1)
Re:terminatorX (Score:1)
Bill Squire
Electrical Engineer
N2IT Development BV
Amsterdam, NL
sounded like BS (Score:1, Insightful)
as a dj i have mixed feelings on this, it sounds realy cool but,
a - all of the CD dj's may switch to using these to look more credible, which will just dump MORE bed techno and trance music on the scene
and
b- startup labels might prefer to just send around digital tracks to people, instead of running a limited press of 300 or so white labels
and getting them distributed.
so in the long run talented producers will get fucked, overshadowed by the kids with no talent dumping bad tracks all over the place.
but hey, half the kids who go to parties in NY dont like good techno anyway,
tehy are into dj's like pleasure head, who spin bad trance, and just fade one track over the other but know how to market themselves and how to perform,
not only do they play the same tracks everynight, ive heard them play a track 2 times or more in one set. But i guess they cater to all the kids who got into the scene after the media played it up as such a great place to get and take e pills
anyway if u want some to listen to some good sets check out kindkidz.com [kindkidz.com], the site is decrepid and dying but there are some good sets still around and a radioshow every thursday and sunday night, although i expect even this second hand
(if anyone likes what they hear, not SEE, and wants to donate some minimal serverspace and bandwidth mail me here [mailto])
Re:sounded like BS (Score:1, Insightful)
The "scene" is so disposable AS IS and has ALWAYS been. There is very little "undergroud" since there are so few sources of vinyl- the club on my block was playing the same tracks I heard in Europe. It's like top 40 radio- only it is vinyl... and all the DJs are completely pretentious thinking they are playing something "fresh and original."
Re:sounded like BS (Score:1)
Old news made New (Score:1)
Unfortunatly, even with the new 'leaked' release, Be OS doesn't run on many current systems, which keeps something cool like this out of many people's hands.
I remember hearing a while back, that Mac OS had a very low audio latency aswell. I wondered if something such as this could be written for Mac OS X. Who knows, if enough people ask, maybe these people will do it.
That would be truely cool
More Discussion (Score:2)
Analog Waveform (Score:1)
Vinyl is large, bulky, it must be cared for for it to last. Qualities that are hardly endearing to people today. Digital media is alot tougher (though I do have cd's that now skip). I also like the ability to change the tempo (beats per minute) of the music while mixing a cd without affecting the pitch of the music that is playing.
It is this pitch that you are playing with when you scratch. A record is just stereo sound, and analog waveform represented in vinyl. In the groove you have 2 axis. Up/down & Left/Right as seen from the stylus. The speed of the record controls the pitch. When you scratch you speed the pitch beyond normal ranges to get that sound. On a record you have a continuos smooth groove that the needle tracks on. Is there latency in the software that controls this. On a record it is just electro mechanical motion of the stylus that puts out the signal. I do not think that the signal that would come out of a "scratched" mp3 would be there, like that of a record. If this does introduce latency into the feed from the "device" to the actual output of the speaker is it really worth it? If you want to scratch your mp3's go to http://www.vestax.co.uk/flash/2002/vrx2000/vrx-in
Re:Analog Waveform (Score:1)
It's a very impressive setup. The latency is about 12ms, which is very tight, and I doubt most people would notice it.
You prep your digital audio for use in Final Scratch, which essentially builds out an index file. This allows you to put the needle anywhere down on the final scratch vinyl and it jumps right away to that point in the song.
I think what I am describing here, is a 'cue' latency. Pitch and direction would obviously depend on how discrete the timecode is on the final scratch vinyl, but if it can get song position and pitch to the software and the software produces audio out all within 12 ms, surely it is that responsive for scratching.
Scratching's just part of it (Score:3, Informative)
I have to admit that this sounds like a good attempt though. The timecoded dummy records allow for new tricks that haven't been possible with simpler emulations.
But you have to remember that the complete vinyl experience consists of all the little stuff like
browsing your records physically in the box, checking out the covers etc.
flipping records with your bare hands instead of grabbing the mouse and fiddling with GUI displays
having that little extra snap, crackle & pop in the sound
letting people actually see what you are playing, since the record's always visible on the turntable
etc.
All these little things are what really contribute to the overall feeling that you get with turntables, it's not just the scratching interface. And you know, sometimes it's actually the slight inconvenience or difficulty of doing something that makes it feel cool. When you change it and make it easier, you also change the overall feeling and your emulation is not successful.
So, I believe that if you go digital, it's possible to come up with much better interfaces for DJ'ing than simple turntable emulation. If a GUI is going to be your primary interface (for finding the tracks you want to play etc), you should leverage the GUI and find the most natural interfaces there.
After all, scratching and pitch mixing are just 'hacks' applied to the original turntable device, which was designed for much simpler use. The possibilities of a computer with a GUI are endless and should not be limited to just these traditional ideas.
Re:Scratching's just part of it (Score:1)
Re:Scratching's just part of it (Score:1)
Yes - one that leads to wailing and gnashing of teeth!
Tearing vinyl and snapping cantilevers - the stuff nightmares are made of.
But if you want some Real Audio and serious hacking try a DIY turntable and motor controler [teresaudio.com] and a real Tone Atm [earthlink.net]. Of cause all real cartridges require manual hacking [lyraaudio.com].
How does that work? (Score:1)
Re:How does that work? (Score:1)
the record has a tone on it, this tone goes to a a box that has analog sound inputs and outputs plus USB connections, it translates the tone coming from the record to data which it sends to your computer. Based on this data your computer controls how the audio file is played then ouputs the audio data via USB back to the box, the box converts the data into audio (of the file from the computer played in its modified form).
Simple story. THE END.
impressions on finalscratch (Score:1)
i saw dj craze (3 time world dmc champion) spin for 1.5 hours last week using it. he played maybe 3 regular plates, he played the majority of his set using final scratch.
his setup consisted of the final scratch vaio laptop, a vestax pmc05, and the final scratch hardware.
links to pictures:
http://www.junglescene.com/img/photo7557.jpg
http://www.junglescene.com/img/photo7552.jpg
note, it did not sound like he was playing mp3s. most likely he was playing the raw wav's with finalscratch. mp3s might sound good at home on your speakers, but in a packed club they sound terrible. craze spun a lot of tunes which are on dubplate at the moment
all in all it was a great set. dj craze wrecks the dancefloor.
his set is archived at www.vibeflow.com, under the "respect" (the club) archive. check it out.
MOD UP (Score:2)
Offtopic, big up Craze for bringing stateside drum'n'bass to a whole new level
Are you kidding? (Score:1)
BTW - I saw Craze a few months ago, and you're right, he is incredible. Juggling dnb and hip hop all night. The kids were going nuts.
Re:impressions on finalscratch (Score:1)
which ones? None are marked 'craze'... I'm curious to hear these...
Nice proggie to play the DJ (Score:1)
Fisher Price (Score:1)
-
laptop included (Score:1)
John Acquiviva and Hawtin have been using the system for well over a year. Acquiviva used it at last year's DEMF and it was flawless.
The first release to the public was pretty high-ticket ($3000) for 3 Final Scratch records, the interface box, the software, and a Sony Vaio laptop. Initially, they had reported that the suggested retail would be somewhere around $600, but my guess is that they made the initial release include the laptop to keep the price out of the range of amateurs; people like Cowboy Neal, et al.
Every review of the system I've read basically says that its great, and it responds exactly like vinyl. But keep in mind that you need a pair of 1200's also if you really want to use this.
Its going to remain an item for pro and semi pro dj for a while; but this _will_ change the way dj'ing is done. Just give it time.
CD Scratchin' (Score:2)
I took some vinyls and recorded them into my COMPUTAR and DRAGGED AND DROPPED THOSE WAV FILES ONTO MY CD-BERNER ICON and produced an audio CD. During playback you get all the deliscious pops and snaps and hiss, and you aren't damaging your vinyls.
HEAR THIS NOW! I recommend that if you beat mix or stuff like that, then go ahead and record your vinyls to CD and playback through a CD-302 or the like.. your vinyls will last longer and you don't have to worry about replacing needles and stuff. Plus you have access to looping and pitch shifting functions.
However if you intend to do any REAL scratching, stick to vinyl. You can get scratch like effects from digital players, but it will be a long time before they have REAL scratching. PEACE OUT MUTHA.
Re:CD Scratchin' (Score:1)
but still. Cool shit.
make this yourself... (Score:1)
1) press a record with an audio-based timecode that readable at any playback speed. (prolly AM)
2) write some software to decode the audio signal
3) hook up your program to a synth, sampler program or whatever you want-- added bonus, its an infinitely flexible instrument.
Why DJs think vinyl is better (Score:1, Interesting)
1. Groove contrast
2. Needle dropping
3. Scratch cueing
Groove contrast is where you can visually locate a dance song's "breakdown" just by looking at the grooves. Very useful, and was impossible with CD or tape.
Needle dropping provides the DJ with quick random access to any part of the song. Until recently, no CD or tape player offered this feature.
Scratch cueing is where the DJ scratches the first beat of a musical phrase in time with the song that's currently playing (the outgoing song), then lets the record play when the outgoing song reaches the first beat of a phrase. Ta-daaa, the songs are in phase/sync. Until recently, no CD or tape player offered this.
Those three features are vital to club DJing ("beat mixing"). So there really was no choice, DJs had to use vinyl.
Recent pro DJ CD players like Pioneer's CDJ-1000 [pioneerprodj.com] do a great job of emulating those features in software (in fact, Pioneer calls the CDJ-1000's scratch technology "vinyl emulation").
FinalScratch takes this a step further, though. The DJ can continue to use the tried-and-true vinyl turntables they've gotten used to over the years. That's a huge plus.
So is FinalScratch a perfect replacement? Well, I don't think so. You can't look at the record itself to see the groove contrast, you must look at the computer screen. And mechanical failures during a performance tend to be easier to fix than having software freak out on you -- I'd argue that there's less that can go wrong, but that point's debateable.
But FinalScratch is great technology, and it is going to change the way club DJs perform.
- Shawn Dodd
other companies (Score:2, Informative)
Re:other companies (Score:1)
Here's another option (Score:1)
http://mentalfloss.ca/beta/aural/dj [mentalfloss.ca]
Terminator: No thanks... (Score:1)
Any fool knows that you don't scratch by moving the platter, it's way to heavy! The record rests on a "slipmat". Which is the reason that you can stop it by just using your finger-tip (and possibly the reason that you 11 years old fucked up the motor of your own 100$ turntable when trying to scratch on it).
I believe that the only way to create the feeling of a REAL turntable would be measure the rotation of a record resting on a slipmat. Wether it would sound right or not (which I STRONGLY doubt) I don't know.
There are more reasons than purly historical for that people who know how to scratch (like ISP) use tables like vestax pdxa2s instead of stuff like this.
Another note, you obviously need a crossfader, transformers and all the other ports to get ANY real feal. But, picking a pmc07pro (the standard dj battle mixer) or some other nice mixer apart and modding it should be pretty easy.
In any case, I doubt that you'll get the sound right and I'll keep my analog equipment for the time beeing.
Slashdot posted this article in _1999_. (Score:1)
vinyl-like scratching with CDs (Score:1)
See Pioneer's page for the CDJ-1000 [pioneerprodj.com] for marketing.
This will change a dj's life more then you realize (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyone that knows, a bigger advicate to the technology is John Acquaviva who has been in to the company from the start. I saw him on New Years eave and i don't think that he even brought any normal vinyl with him.. everything came off his finalscratch machine. So go check out his site www.jacq.com [jacq.com] and slashdot his server.
-b
Re:you are a buffoon (Score:1)