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GNU is Not Unix

Stampede v0.90 Code Freeze 72

john wrote to us with the news that Stampede has announced a code freeze, effective as of Feb. 21, 2000. With the freeze in place, they will be attending to only bug reports and looking to do a stable release soon.
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Stampede v0.90 Code Freeze

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  • Glad to hear the release is ready. Installation for a newbie is prolly the hardest thing to get right. It seems each day a new release from another Linux distro is making the installation process much easier...

  • It seems like every distribution these days are aiming at making everything VERY easy for new users... sure hope they mean it, when they say power users.. RedHat used to be ok, but since redhat 6.1 you don't even get the option of using fdisk, but are instead presented with a vastly inferior partition manager...
  • The fdisk option is still there, if you request "expert" mode. If you want to use fdisk, you probably qualify as an "expert" and should be using that anyway, no need to confuse new people with an "fdisk" option unneccesarily.
  • by AjR ( 148833 ) on Monday February 21, 2000 @04:57AM (#1256731) Homepage
    Its nice to see that Linux distro's are beginning to "theme" themselves a little bit. We can only gain by such spread within the fold. Rather then chase the elusive dream of a "desktop-friendly" OS, we should be looking at how we can make ourselves more secure. In that respect, I would see Open-BSD as more of a worthy target then Windows. Face it people, Windows will endure. For example, I use Linux as a work server because of simple maths...NT+5CAL's+Exchange+5ExchangeCal's+ProxySer ver+ZetaFax= megabuck$ whereas Linux+Sendmail+Squid+HylaFax+Samba = nearly free (the only charge being the time learning them). Our challenge for the free *nixes should be to make them the OS of choice for home networks. As long as people use Office/SmartSuite at work it will be hard for them to justify the fuss in translating documents. However, show them how they can share their internet connection, how they can fax from any machine and you grab them. For example, I work a lot from home as a rep for Plaid Cymru and I do a lot of work faxing, e-mailing etc. Linux has revolutionised my work - but I still use Lotus SmartSuite on a WIn98 client. Not from any anti-M$ bias but because I have 3 years of work in it! Its just not feasible to swap so swiftly. Grab the home network market and lever that - rather then chase the elusive "Windows" user. In that respect, distro's like Stampede and SlackWare pay a very important role. And me.... I use RedHat because thats what I bought when I first heard of this "Linux thingy"! I bought 5.1 when it was already quite old. I ain't interested in flaming an OS, I just want to work effectively. That is the goal we should be chasing! "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".
  • Hi,

    I've just discovered Stampede's homepage, I had never heard about them before. From what I read, it seems to be a very nice & clean project.

    There's just one thing that bugs me : they say, in their slogan, that they are "The First PGCC/Glibc Distribution Optimized for Speed!".

    Isn't that precisely what Mandrake does (and does quite well IMHO) for monthes, if not years ?

    No flame intended, I just want to open a thread about a Stampede/Mandrake comparison, discussing their respective merits. Oh well...

    Stéphane
  • When they say power users, they mean people who want to squeeze every last drop of performance they can out of the system. Stampede was among the first distributions to bust out the pgcc compiler and compile as much as possible with it using the best optimizations. I've grown to distrust pgcc though, as it breaks certain programs still, and you are made to think the program does not work when it would when compiled with normal gcc.
  • I took a look at the site (I'd been hearing about this distro for some time.) &nbsp The below was interesting to comment on:

    • There is no distribution optimized for newer machines. Lets face it, our new Pentium/K6/Whatever should not be running code optimized for a 386/486
    • There is not really a distribution available that has updated packages and security as it's number one goals. This needed to happen.
    • We feel that even the easiest distribution out there is not easy enough to install for the new user. If the Linux revolution is to take place, we need something easier to install and use than DOS/Win95.
    Hmmm... &nbsp looking at these points, although they are commercial entities, Mandrake, Caldera, and CorelLinux seemed to have focussed on points #1 & #3, ie., optimizing for the newest boxen and making a "for-dummies" install program for win/dos users. &nbsp I have both Mandrake and Caldera and their main "selling point" (as it were) is to go after the win desktop market, so I don't see much new here except that Stampede is apparently not a traditional "corporate" entity like Macmillan, Caldera, or Corel.

    Item #2 seems confusing unless they are referring to the fact that if you choose to install the server features, you basically have an "open wide" system that needs to be locked down.

    Over the past couple of months, I've seen some really bizarre comments about security and Linux and alot of it has to do with mixing up "server" with "workstation". &nbsp I know that Linux does both, but you can choose either via most of the install programs, and then take responsibility for securing the system in the manner required.

  • by noeld ( 43600 ) on Monday February 21, 2000 @05:05AM (#1256735) Homepage
    I have heard a lot of people worry about some Linux company taking over the world and becomeing Micro$oft. This article is a good example of I think that this is doomed to failure.

    Not that some companies are not going to make lots of money and get a good return on their R&D dollars. Even end up being the number one linux supplier with all the cash that could mean.

    The difference between M$ windoze and Linux is that anyone can make a new distribution or even their own installation.

    Yep boys and girls if you do not like what you see on the shelf of your local brick and morter computer store, then roll your own.

    I also believe that these same effects are going to spread and continue this pattern. A few years ago it took millions of dollars to get into broadcast media and your could only reach those with in miles of your site. Now for ten bucks a month (or a few popup adds) you can reach millions of people all over the world.

    What a wonderful world we are building.

    Noel

    RootPrompt.org -- Nothing but Unix [rootprompt.org]

  • Yes, but Stampede was around before mandrake was geared towards optimization.

  • Stampede is not new! I have had it installed since September of 1998, and it was out for a while before then.

  • >>Even end up being the number one linux supplier with all the cash that could mean.

    But does it mean that much cash?

    I read somewhere that the total market for Linux goods and services last year was $32 million.

    The stock market values Red Hat at something like $5 billion. What is the basis for that kind of valuation?

    I think that Linux itself will not be a big seller. I think that computer manufacturers will make their own distros of Linux that run well on their machines and install them. So you will someday have a Dell Linux, a Compaq Linux, etc.

    If Bill Gates lets them!


  • Sometimes I wish a lot of the developers would start helping with already in progress distributions. Too many choices of distributions are coming out. I always believed we could make much more progress if we had 10 more developers on the slackware project making it easier, or 10 more on debian, mandrake or stampede. Don't get me wrong, I've used stampede and believe it's a great distribution. I'm just trying to say to al ot of the newbie developers to start developing *FOR* current systems. Why reinvent the wheel when we already have it. Why not make it 4 wheel drive? :)
  • Pow-er U-ser (n): A user with an underpowered system, running overpowered software.
    --
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 21, 2000 @05:21AM (#1256741)
    Does it run on Linux?
  • The danger lies in this: Some company creates a proprietary library and convinces many developers to use this library for critical applications like web browsers and word processors. Now that many applications rely on this proprietary library (which would probably be a widget set like GTK or QT), everyone has to buy it in order to use the popular applications. Even though it's running on an open source kernel, X server, etc, all it takes is one link in the chain to create a monopoly.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Does it run on Linux?

    Yep. You need VMWare though.
  • They probably should update their pages, but at the time they had written that stuff, most distributions would have,, at most O2 optimizations with vanilla gcc (and most even had the -g option to make things bigger slower, but debugger friendly). They switched to pgcc, took out the debugging, and cranked up the optimizations before it really became the practice elsewhere. Stampede has been around longer than you realize, and it's true that NOW the points are superceded by others, but at the time they weren't. And the secuirty issues are a bit more complex than you say. When they talk about secuirty, I think they are saying they want to be the OpenBSD of the linux world, but I was never too interested in the secuirty anyway. At home I have nothing interesting enough to worry, and at work we slap a firewall on everything.
  • Actually it isn't trivial.

    Internet Connection Sharing was introduced with Windows 98. So, if you are using 95 you can't do it.

    Plus you don't get a firewall. Do any file and print sharing and without a little bit of thought you are broadcasting your shares across the 'net.

    Fax sharing needs extra software (IIRC) from Windows.

    I ain't no blind zealot - I'm just pointing out one thing that Linux has in it's favour - the ability to build a seriously useful home network.
  • Perhaps another example will clarify this.

    A friend of mine has just opened his own printing business. He is just starting out so he cannot afford to throw money away. He is relatively computer literate (for his field) proofing and working with Corel Draw and Pagemaker. He has two PC's, a PIII 450 and a P166.

    He uses his machines to proof and design.

    He came to me wanting to create a little network to make proofing easier. Now we went ahead and bought the NICS, Hub and cables to set up his network.

    We were just about to buy a printer server when he let on he had a 386 in the attic.

    With that - I dusted it down, installed a second LPT card in it and installed a bare Linux install. I then set up samba so that the two printers on the linux box were available on Network Neighbourhood.

    Result: He can now proof his files to two printers. Both machines share his ISDN connection. He saved the £200 for a two-port printer server to but some software. Linux provides a file-server, firewall, faxing, print server for a fraction of the cost that a Windows only solution would have cost - and he is still using Windows on the clients so he can use Corel etc.

    The linux firewall, print server etc are full fledged products. To save costs on the WIndows side would have required shareware products.

    I taught him some rudimentary administration and he calls me when he has a problem. I also get cheap prints too !!!! (barter - the way to go!).

    Moral: OS's can co-exist.

    Don't let Open Source = Closed Mind or Closed Source = Closed Mind either.

    The right tools for the right job.
  • One important point which should be made about the stampede optimisations, is that they tend to make for an unstable distribution -- I had rather more random segfaults on a K6 then I did under RH6 (which replaced it).

    The stampede project should really give two things important weight in the system
    • The system should be very 'recompile-centric', i.e. it should be organised such that you can stick the source onto your new machine, set the basic target architecture in some core config file, and then rerun gcc for your system.
    Such an approach would make it simple enough to put '-march=k6 -O6 --everything' and then recompile and repackage your entire system (though I think that this places too many demands on the build system --- I'll stop dreaming now)
    John
  • Evolution:

    Corel -> RedHat -> Debian

    Time to evolve, I guess.
  • And the secuirty issues are a bit more complex than you say. When they talk about secuirty, I think they are saying they want to be the OpenBSD of the linux world, but I was never too interested in the secuirty anyway.

    When I was attempting to choose a "free as in beer" *BSD to install at home, I looked at the 3 most popular - FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD. &nbsp I read through their sites thoroughly and was impressed with OpenBSD's security focus (I have a 5-machine LAN at home with a Linux firewall). &nbsp I decided to opt with NetBSD as they appeared to be like the "Debian of the BSD world", without the hype, and with a promise of "no code released before its time".

    I did not mean to simplify any security issues (believe me, with a cable modem and a box on the net 24/7, security is a supreme concern). &nbsp I only meant to say that there's alot of discussion out there that makes it seem as though the owner of the box can simply pick what is billed as a "secure" distribution and thus have no responsibility for learning about security nor the responsibility to diligently try to maintain a secure envirnoment. &nbsp No machine or software can do that for you.

  • HA... not a chance.... Evolution : DIY -> Slackware -> RedHat -> ??? well.. could be debian... i haven't actually given that a try yet.. perhaps I should before closing the circle with slackware again :)
  • At the time they were announcing the distro, those points were valid. Mind you, that was before Mandrake and Corel Linux and prob. even before Caldera hit the market (although I'm not sure about the last one). Stampede just had a lower profile than Mandrake and the others.

    Thimo
    --
  • one of the nicest (something about 'nicest looks wrong... *grumble about english profs*) things about that site is:

    Note: Stampede Linux is not affiliated with Stampede Technologies in any way. If you came here looking for RAS software, please visit http://www.stampede.com.

    While this may seem like a small touch, with all the cyber-squating going on recently its nice to see someone point out that they are different from another company. Its free advertising for the other Stampede, I looked at their page just to see what it was!

    -Elendale (looking forward to stampede and what it will bring)

  • I was looking to perhaps move over to OpenBSD soon, however the real problem is that I'm intending to go SMP.

    The OpenBSD website says SMP is a no go. I already got a nightmare due with recompiling etc my Linux install to go SMP. I chose a stock kernel and so I got to install the source/headers etc.

    So while I would like to go to OpenBSD I can't (AFAIK). What is FreeBSD like in that respect? Educate me!!!
  • Mind you, that was before Mandrake and Corel Linux and prob. even before Caldera hit the market (although I'm not sure about the last one).

    Very true. &nbsp Caldera however, has been out for a little while, although their focus on the graphical, "idiot proof" install is a recent animal with their LIZARD (as opposed to their older LISA) installer. &nbsp In fact, seems that in 1999, a number of the Linux distros (eg., Red Hat and the others mentioned previously), decided to go full steam ahead into the "desktop" market. &nbsp It's just that due to the IPOs and media attention, those distros got the jump on Stampede. &nbsp Even SuSE (which I have on one of my machines) re-did their YaST installer to grab some desktop share.

  • Moral: OS's can co-exist

    Let me add a "hell, yeah!" to this. I'm still required to keep Windows running at home for various reasons, but use a Linux machine for fun. However, even if I never used the Linux machine directly, it'd still be damn useful. I now had DSL, but there is no way in hell I'd hook up my Win95 box to a direct connection. Now I've got a nice little firewall that took very little time to set up and cost nothing.

    Also, Samba works damn well as a file-server. One of my problems on my Win95 box was the %$&$%@ 2 Gig partition limit. I could upgrade to Win98, but having upgrade Windows many times, I know the sort of pain that can cause one to endure. Easier was to install a new hard drive on the Linux machine, and create a nice big shareable partition on it.

    Anyway, Samba works really, really well and if anyone were to ask me to recommend a good file/print server for Windows, I'd recommend a Linux box long before a Windows machine.

  • My PPC isn't going to run their distribution. Contributing their work to an already established one, say RedHat, which LinuxPPC is based on, would have allowed me and other PPC users to benefit.
  • That sounds identical to the situation I have at home.

    3 Machines connect to my linux box (300MMX). My P111 450, my wife's P133 and her brother (who lodges with us) has a P11 333.

    We all use the internet, we can all print, fax, email, share my nice 13gb scsi samba share and basically play some seriously cool multi player games.

    As you said, Linux enables you to have access to all this without an unnecessary OS upgrade. Why go to Windows 98 if 95 is doing fine?

    Now all I'm waiting for is DSL/Cable in Wales and I'm in heaven!
  • So while I would like to go to OpenBSD I can't (AFAIK). What is FreeBSD like in that respect? Educate me!!!

    Before anyone out there hurls a "RFM" at you, try going to FreeBSD [freebsd.org]'s site. &nbsp It's a real cool website with some really informative FAQs. &nbsp I was almost ready to install it myself but decided to opt for something different. &nbsp But since it is the most used of the "open source" BSDs out there, you'll have plenty of support for it. &nbsp Yahoo, Microsoft's Hotmail (hee hee), Apache, etc., use it.

    And by the way, I have a Red Hat 6.1 server at work running SMP just fine thank you.

    ;-)

  • "Before anyone out there hurls a "RFM" at you, try going to FreeBSD's site. It's a real cool website with some really informative FAQs. I was almost ready to install it myself but decided to opt for something different. But since it is the most used of the "open source" BSDs out there, you'll have plenty of support for it. Yahoo, Microsoft's Hotmail (hee hee), Apache, etc., use it."

    I've been to all the *BSD's website and its only FreeBSD that mentions SMP - hence why I mentioned them. Its just I wondered whether Linux or FreeBSD would get the most oomph out of 2xPII 400's!

    I'm not a complete klutz honest ;-)! I have experience with AIX and DRS/NX under my belt - its just that they were a long time ago.

    After what you said about a dual RH61 server I think I'll stick to Linux for that box (im running a patched RH6) - but I have a P133 so I think I'll go mosey to CheapBytes and get some *BSD's!

    More then anything, I've just got used to ipchains et al. Too lazy to start afresh!!

  • by Anonymous Coward
    does anyone actually use *.SLP, most developers i've seen only use .tar.gz and RPM...
  • Funny. A friend of mine just called me: he is installing the RH6.1 on its PC. Seems that the install is now somewhat graphical.

    Neat. Crunch fdisk. Make graphical install. Very cool.

    The only problem is that the beast is frozen in a 'post installation' thing and hang if he reboots the machine.

    ROTFL.

    Cheers,

    --fred
  • I'm not a complete klutz honest ;-)! I have experience with AIX and DRS/NX under my belt - its just that they were a long time ago.

    I believe you. &nbsp Honest. &nbsp ;-). &nbsp I just know them thar /.ers hee hee.

    After what you said about a dual RH61 server I think I'll stick to Linux for that box (im running a patched RH6) - but I have a P133 so I think I'll go mosey to CheapBytes and get some *BSD's!

    My RH 6.1 box has dual P-200s. &nbsp Works slick. &nbsp TurboLinux also works with SMP and if you do their server install, one of their install questions asks whether you want to install SMP.

    Upgrade now to Schrodingers Dog...

    Are you a Schrodinger's equation fan? &nbsp ;-)

  • The funny thing about this is that the reason that they have that disclaimer is because the Stampede Technologies was going to sue them and take their domain.
  • "Are you a Schrodinger's equation fan? ;-)"

    I actually left Uni in my second year because I ran out of money. I was doing an Astrophysics degree hence my predisposition to Astronomy!

    After trying to digest Schrodingers 3-dimensional time-independent Wave Equation, linux firewalling is easy-peasy!
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Yes, in the past we have not focused on the installer as much as we should have, I believe Matt's latest installer is much better than previous versions. However, I will still say that we need to focus a lot more energy on our installer because it does "suck" :)

    The last installer that I myself tried (I install by hand now, so much easier) borked on lilo configuration and a number of other things. There were also problems with permissions/ownership of a few devices/directories (namely /dev/lp* and /var/spool/lpd) in the 0.89 release.

    I have plans to write a simple to use GUI installer, possibly using the gnome libs (this may require that we boot off the cd).

    Hopefully I will have it done for our next release (not 0.90)

    Jeff Stedfast
  • I guess we're kinda going offtopic here but...

    After trying to digest Schrodingers 3-dimensional time-independent Wave Equation, linux firewalling is easy-peasy!

    AHHHahahahahaha... &nbsp hee hee hee. &nbsp snicker. &nbsp Oh... &nbsp that is so damn true. &nbsp As a chemistry major in college, I think I had one semester where I was taking multivariable calculus, physical chemistry, and elementary particle physics - all at the same time (what a fool I was), and at some point during the semester, ALL 3 covered the topic of the Schrodinger equation. &nbsp My head was spinning because each discipline puts their own spin (no pun intended) on the subject! &nbsp I always liked to quote it on the Star Trek lists when discussing warp theory and such. &nbsp It would inevitably trigger a whole side thread on sub-atomic theory vs. gravitational theory, etc.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Sure people use the SLP format. Take a look at the Alien package on freshmeat, or the mail client Spruce. It may not be the most popular packaging format out there... but then again most people don't know a whole lot about it. So here is a little SLP overview:

    The SLP format is basically a bzip2'd tarball. That tarball has some metadata appended to the end of it for use of the SLP tools (slpi, slpl, etc. etc.). However, that same SLP can be extracted using tar and bzip2. When is the last time you installed a distro without using an installer using only a boot disk which had lilo, tar, bzip2, and a few other utilities.

    I can't recall another packageing format (besides Slackware tgz) for which you can do a 'tar Ixvf packagename.slp' to install it if you don't have the special utilities needed for the package format.

    For those of you who want to know how to install Stampede GNU/Linux without using the installer check out the manual installation directions [stampede.org] as they contain the needed information on how to do so.

  • If I recall correctly, this wasn't done to be nice, but becuase Stampede Technologies was getting upset about Stampede Linux's name and web site "diluting" their trademarks and such. Stampede Technology let off after Stampede Linux started linking them at the top of the page. I agree though; it would be nice if people would link like that to avoid confusion and keep things simple. I remember that at one time ATI.COM was owned by someone other than those Canadian graphics guys. The site that was hosted on that domain was nice enough to link to www.atitech.ca, a wonderful, shining example of the niceness (I assume) you were speaking of.
  • Fourier synthesis, where Maple V is the only way to fly...
  • > I've grown to distrust pgcc though, as it breaks certain programs still, and you are made to think the program does not work when it would when compiled with normal gcc.

    Yup, this is a really big problem IMHO. Distros that use pgcc as their default compiler are just support nightmares. I've seen many posts on the mailing lists I frequent from people having problems with Mandrake/pgcc, and then recompiling with gcc after someone suggests it, and everything working fine. When is everyone going to realize that gcc took all the sane optimizations from pgcc and rolled them into it's source??? I think pgcc is used because people don't understand this simple fact and don't know enough about the compiler options gcc offers.
  • Fourier synthesis, where Maple V is the only way to fly...

    ACK! &nbsp Which reminds me of Fourier Transform, which reminds me of FTIR, which reminds me of advanced inorganic chem-misery...

    ;-)

  • i was going to say that, but I wasn't 100% sure. ;-)
  • "As a chemistry major in college, I think I had one semester where I was taking multivariable calculus, physical chemistry, and elementary particle physics - all at the same time (what a fool I was), and at some point during the semester, ALL 3 covered the topic of the Schrodinger equation. "

    Try

    Nuclear and Elementary Particle Physics
    Quantum Mechanics
    Extragalactic Astrophysics
    Maths Methods III

    In one semester

    Is it any wonder science undergraduates drink so much ;-)
  • This was not very voluntary on Stampede's part. Take a look at this old Slashdot story [slashdot.org]

    ---

  • There are a lot of problems with this, however, not the least of which is quality-control. To get around that, either a prominent Linux vendor needs dominate or hardware vendors will start bundling custom versions. This is what has been killing UNIX for as long as I can remember, and Linux will be its next victim if this landscape doesn't change. Imagine - Dell Linux, IBM Linux, Compaq Linux... and then when IBM adds a new peripheral or component technology (let's imagine MCA2.0 for example), they'll build a beefy IBM Linux distro that supports this new technology but nobody else will be onboard with that. Now what? With my PPC based MCA2.0 IBM box, I won't be installing Debian anytime soon.
  • >When is the last time you installed a distro
    >without using an installer using only a boot
    >disk which had lilo, tar, bzip2, and a few
    >other utilities.

    Actually.. I'm kinda doing it right now with an old 386 laptop and it's a pain in the butt.


  • Dear sir,

    I hope I am not starting a flame war.

    The matter with Stampede Linux is they are attempting to squeeze out every ounce of speed out of the linux code, short of re-writing the entire OS in the assembly language.

    They have chosen to use pgcc because of those weird optimization. As weird as those optimizations are, they do work in term of Stampede Linux.

    I understand that the use of pgcc contributes to many problems, but that is a tradeoff.

    My only hope that one day gcc give as much optimization as pgcc, with less weirdness involved.

  • Ditto. my Chemystery degree gathers dust now.
  • Nice one! I'll argue your description on several counts (grin)

    1) Lousy - Nope, just been de-flea'ed
    2) LInux-using - only as a server - Still using WIn98 as a client as I haven't found an app that reads WordPro Millenium files
    3) Welsh Nationalist - well done, you spotted Plaid Cymru. Yes I hapen to believe in the rights of small nations to govern their own affairs!
    4) Scum - Nah, scum is useful. See the story about generating hydrogen fuel with algae.

    Final score 1/4
    Must try harder ;-)

  • testtesttest
  • df gfh df
  • ghggggggggggggggggg
  • http://slashdot.org/
  • ldkdldkdlsafkasdlfasldl asdlksadlfksdlfkdlfdslkf
  • Well, I last looked at Stampede when they were in the 0.5x range around the time my now ex-fiancee left me back in early '98. They've been around for at least 2 years that I personally know of. So, was Mandrake optimized for that long? If not, then Stampede does have the claim as first distro to do it.

Mathematics deals exclusively with the relations of concepts to each other without consideration of their relation to experience. -- Albert Einstein

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