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Journal smittyoneeach's Journal: "I still happen to believe that humans have free will." 21

Journal by smittyoneeach on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @08:31PM

You know how it is, when you lay out an existential model describing people as a body/mind/soul fusion, to describe how free will and destiny interact, and then someone tries to snark:

I still happen to believe that humans have free will. If you believe otherwise, just say so without the blame passing. I won't necessarily disagree, I just need to hear it straight up.

...and you're all: "Dude. I laid it out for you."

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"I still happen to believe that humans have free will."

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- Re: (Score:2)
  
  by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
  
  OK, Smart Dirt. You still behaved as though free will existed, or you should not have replied to my post, much less, navigated to this web site.
  
  Note that I am not specifically refuting you--in the materialistic plane of the body/mind in the linked JE. You may prove correct in the context of a Divine omniscience that could both create and track the overall deterministic state of the universe.
  
  But, if you go to the JE, I'm contending a third, orthogonal dimension of the spirit, the tip of Maslow's hierarch
  - Re: (Score:1)
    
    by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) writes:
    
    Wasn't me.. but without evidence, we do need to go with the more plausible, even when contrary to my assertion. I find your lack of faith disturbing. You seem to believe in magic
    - Re: (Score:2)
      
      by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
      
      Why, no: no, I do not. In fact, my entire JE was a refutation of the idea of "magic". But go on.
      - Re: (Score:1)
        
        by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) writes:
        
        Ah, but you do. All religions are free of actual evidence.
        
        Re: (Score:2)
        
        by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
        
        All religions are free of actual evidence.
        I cannot fathom in what way the archaeology, historical record, and my life do not constitute "actual evidence", unless you yourself are God and redefining these symbols in some fresh way.
        
        Re: (Score:1)
        
        by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) writes:
        
        Well, first you have to show evidence that your god exists. That has not been done yet. All you have are unexplained events, which you presume to be supernatural through wishful thinking, sorta like my belief in free will.
        unless you yourself are God
        define "god"
        
        Re: (Score:2)
        
        by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
        
        Well, first you have to show evidence that your god exists.
        
        "You're soaking in it."
        
        What the evidence is not is some unambiguous mathematical proof. Not how it works. This is also the literally the (vertical) point of the Maslow-3D model: all that "transcendental" stuff that informs the meaning of life is orthogonal to the existential/material body/mind plane. The most you have (seen from that plane) is the continuous philosophical bun fight over which "way" (theta) is the correct course.
        
        Note that I'm not evangelizing any specific theta here. My task is not to c
        
        Re: (Score:1)
        
        by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) writes:
        
        Note that I'm not evangelizing any specific theta here.
        But you are, proselytizing your Christian faith. You have always been very specific in your evangelizing
        
        Re: (Score:2)
        
        by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
        
        But you are, proselytizing your Christian faith.
        Where? There is no mention of such. I have offered a model couched in secular psychological terms. From a Christian standpoint, this model is junk at best, heretical at worst. All I'm doing is pointing out the inadequacy of materialism. Philosophers have been scratching their heads these millennia due to the limitations of the wetware. But, if bogus accusations are all you've got, then push them you will.
        
        Re: (Score:1)
        
        by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) writes:
        
        All I'm doing is pointing out the inadequacy of materialism.
        But you haven't. You just evangelize "supernatural" jibber-jabber written by Roman propagandists. And "philosophers"? Please.. masturbatory self importance.. you may as well be talking about an economist or any other astrologer. The wetware invents "gods" all the time
        
        Re: (Score:2)
        
        by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
        
        You just evangelize "supernatural" jibber-jabber written by Roman propagandists.
        
        I'm beginning to think that you spent no time whatsoever on the Maslow-3D JE [slashdot.org]. Because it has nothing whatsoever to do with your accusation.
        
        Re: (Score:1)
        
        by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) writes:
        
        You're just talking about normal animal psychology, which humans still faithfully mimic, because they are animals, in denial of course. You still believe the choice is not personal? Because if it isn't then the world is definitely deterministic, everything has already been decided
        
        Re: (Score:2)
        
        by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
        
        "normal animal psychology"
        
        Wait, let me ask Mr. Ed if you're not full of his product.
        
        Re: (Score:1)
        
        by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) writes:
        
        He'll just tell you, "you don't need to be a brain to be boss"
        
        Re: (Score:2)
        
        by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
        
        Whatevs.
The proof for free will (Score:2)

by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) * writes:

Is in the markup language you used for your tables in that post. I don't recognize it, and I thought I recognized most syntaxes for markup languages.
- Re: (Score:2)
  
  by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
  
  LaTeX
- Re: (Score:2)
  
  by damn_registrars ( 1103043 ) writes:
  
  I refute that. I have met others who have written their theses in LaTeX, and some of them even claimed to have done it out of "free will". Ultimately none of them were happy with their decision, which supports the notion that it was not of free will at all.
  
  I wrote my thesis in a word processor, which is also evidence of a lack of free will. I used it knowing what a terrible tool said word processor was for page layout and yet I used it anyways. A true free will advocate would write their own page la
  - Re: (Score:2)
    
    by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * writes:
    
    I wrote my thesis in a word processor, which is also evidence of a lack of free will.
    
    In what way? Were your fingers driven by external electrical impulses? Were your specific word choices 100% dictated?
    - Re: (Score:2)
      
      by damn_registrars ( 1103043 ) writes:
      
      I wrote my thesis in a word processor, which is also evidence of a lack of free will.
      In what way? Were your fingers driven by external electrical impulses? Were your specific word choices 100% dictated?
      I had no choice but to use a terrible tool for an important task.
      
      That part is true. There may be a little tint of sarcasm beyond there though.

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All your files have been destroyed (sorry). Paul.