
Journal pudge's Journal: Pluto 27
OK, seriously now, since when is science or language (except in France) determined by voting?
A legitimate case can be made that Pluto is not properly called a planet, but despite what the many news reports I've seen have said, Pluto is not now "officially" not-a-planet. There's nothing "official" about it. The International Astronomical Union has no authority. The International Star Registry has as much authority as the IAU does, and dammit, if they decide, for a $1,000 fee, to call the third star to the left of Orion's belt "Pudgimus Prime," then that's just as bloody official as anything the IAU says.
The IAU is a bunch of nice people who do good and important work. But they have no actual authority to name anything, let alone to classify anything, any more than anyone else has. That's not to say we should ignore them; far from it. That we can look to this group of scientists for a common set of words -- like "planet" and "Pluto" -- is extremely useful. But it's not "official." It's not law. It's just one group of people. A really smart and influential group, but that doesn't make them "official."
We do not have to go in and change all the textbooks in all the schools, we don't have to change our dioramas and mnemonic devices, we don't have to change
Well? (Score:2)
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Plenty of authority (Score:2)
In the case o
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No. I thought the context was pretty clear: what I mean is that any action they take, any definition they come up with, is not "official" in any way, shape, or form (except inside the IAU itself, an organization that, probably, none of us belong to). It's not about coercion, necessarily (though, as in France's case, it could be).
However, the officers of IAU, like the officers of
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The general public doesn't need to choose, since it does not suffer when language is ambiguous. Fields of science do suffer where their terminology is inconsistent, or ill defined. You end up having all sorts of footnotes, qualifications and exceptions to what would otherwise be an orderly framework within which to classify and share information.
In science, you need some sort of scientific evidence; not so in langua
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Actually, it does. Whenever someone in the general public uses the word "planet" in relation to Pluto (either including it or excluding it), that person will be making a choice of which definition to use. And these cumulative individual choices will result in the actual definition, should any consensus be reached, but even if no consensus is reached, everyone will continue to make choices regarding the definition.
People who want to continue to call Pluto a planet w
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Well... sweet potatoes are roots...
That said, you provide a poor analogy. It states the user of a word as a lack of knowledge -- while this might be true in the examples you gave, it wouldn't be accurate to project that on someone who calls Pluto a planet. They would lack an acceptance of the IAU designations. At least the ones who choose to continue to call Pluto a planet -- as oppose
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And the technical distinction between roots and tubers is lost on 99% of the public, because it has no relevance for how they use the information. In most people's eyes, a potato is a potato, and the common parlance is perfectly adequate for what they are using the language for. So, if they want to call Pluto a planet, the overwhelming odds are that they will be understood, even though they are technically incorrect.
Why is this not just a matter of personal preference, or
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Again, though, they are not technically incorrect.
Because the word "planet", when applied as a technical definition, has a specific meaning, which the IAU proposed and the membership of the IAU adopted.
And they are free to do that. However, they have no authority to require that the rest of us adopt their new meaning for the word "planet."
Just because the IAU says the
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But it is how science works. Technical terms are defined by technical authorities. You might as well say that you don't agree with the modern, more precise definition of a meter [nist.gov], and continue to refer to a meter using the old "distance around the earth" definition. You might feel good about yourself at having stuck it to the man, and you might even be close enough for non-technical discussions and applications, but you wou
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Actually, no, it is not.
Technical terms are defined by technical authorities.
That is begging the question, since these people are not authorities, in the sense of having any authority or ability to make up definitions for everyone else. Their authority begins and ends with their own membership. This is a simple fact, why are you arguing against it?
Everyone -- including both scientists and the general public -- are free to accept or reject what the IAU says.
We often do accept wh
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Had your statement read: "Just because the IAU says THEIR technical definition has changed does not make it so" -- you would be incorrect.
Your statement as is, however is accurate.
Words and their definitions are only useful when the people using them to communicate have an agreement on meaning. If the IAU wants to modify technical terms to use within their ranks, so be it. If Bob and Mary from Idaho Falls agree to call
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Right. I fully support the IAU's ability -- and its exercise thereof -- to determine such definitions. I am not against them changing their definition.
I am merely against the rest of us accepting the definition, even if we don't like it, just because they want us to. If we collectively decide as a society that we like the definition of planet that includes Pluto, then
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Am I the only one who sees how this reasoning applies to the gay marriage issue? :)
Because it's not science (Score:1)
As for who gets to decide: those who have some sort of control over it: biological taxonimists have determined that dogs and wolves belong to different species because they got together and decided it. Quarks are called quarks (as opposed to lep
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That's why I said this was voting on language. My whole journal entry was looking at it from this perspective.
you're allowed to vote on that
But no, that's not how language works, anymore than it is how science works. In both cases, they evolve by general consensus and usage. No one votes, no one makes mandates, there is no authority apart from the general consensus. It'
I wouldn't go THAT far... (Score:2)
Now, I agree that it doesn't have that much authority, but we are talking about a group of respected scientists vs a buncha suits trying to swindle money out of your pocket.
Odds are, scientists and writers that do write the text books will follow the agreements of the scientists and not by the schiesters...
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Right, so you are not at all disagreeing with me.
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I just have a thing against the international star registry...
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I just have a thing against the international star registry...
Exactly. That's why I used them as the example, because they have just as much authority to mandate the official names of things, even though we don't respect them at all.
Four digit jack-booted thugs (Score:1)
Your generation is the cause of all of our problems . . . LOL
i don't care about the IAU. (Score:1)
They're dolts. Every one of 'em. Plu