Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror

Comment Re:Environmentalists demand we only subsistence fa (Score 1) 115

The first, with cattles, the only change called for is "It asked for the removal of livestock from public lands that are Herd Management Areas (HMAs). " I don't think that's objectionable.

I am not a rancher, so what I say may be not accurate. The meaning of this ask is to drastically reduce the size of free roaming herd OR switch to feedlot. To dangerously oversimplify the issue - feedlot is bad for the animals, meat quality, and the environment. Pasture raised beef has minimal impact of the environment and is better beef and healthier cows. So yes, I am against what is being asked in the first link.

These examples were illustrative, as a reply to a troll accusing me of inventing things

Comment Re:Environmentalists demand we only subsistence fa (Score 1) 115

You realize why this is frustrating right, because earlier you claimed "I do not, because most of such claims presuppose that the environment is static and pristine." in regards to those claims, now everything is much more nuanced...

Sorry, I don't see a contradiction in anything I said.

But we can't give that nuance to environmental groups or their issues of course

This is fair criticism. However, based on my subjective experience observing various environmentalism causes I am simply unwilling to extend such courtesy. I am not going to try to look for unstated meanings and alternative interpretations. I do try to resist categorically dismissing them as green-washing rent seekers, but that is the extend of my mental effort.

seem like a run-of-the-mill science denier.

Reputation destruction only works if your target cares what others think about them.

Comment Re:Environmentalists demand we only subsistence fa (Score 1) 115

So the cattle and steel industries do have deleterious environmental effects.

My view is that cattle has minimal deleterious environmental effects, none if they are pasture raised. Steel industry has minimal and it is acceptable considering how necessary steel is.

Car culture does have harmful effects on the environment and society.

Car culture does have harmful effects that are getting reduced with improved technology. Cars are necessary for a free society to exist. Without cars, government would have much bigger role and say in our lives.

Anthropomorphic climate change is a real phenomenon.

Yes it is, but effects of warming are not as dire and not as immediate as predicted. Also, climate change is a net of natural systems (Milankovitch cycles, etc.) and anthoropogenic, what percentage which is not settled science. It is also certainly not 100% anthropogenic.

If your argument is "we need environmental groups to have better marketing" then sure, I can agree with that.

No, we need environmental groups with better values. Human-centric. Capable of cost vs. benefit analysis.

Comment Re:Environmentalists demand we only subsistence fa (Score 1) 115

You can't do the same with vegetables nor grains and they aren't renewable resources.

Third, farming plants requires fertilizing them. That fertilizer either comes from oil or comes from the animal industry.

Also mining, like potash in Canada. Most people won't get your point unless you immediately connect food and fertilizer.

Comment Re:Environmentalists demand we only subsistence fa (Score 1) 115

First, there's a substantial issue with how representative these environmentalists are from the general movement.

I do not have a way to say how representative such views of a typical environmentalist. I don't believe I am engaging in nut-picking and I am open to seeing counter-evidence. I came up with these links by searching for key phrases (e.g., methane emissions from cows) and people (e.g., Suzuki) from memory and there were many similar links to chose from. Do you believe these views are not representative? If so, what makes you think so?

But you seem to also confuse sources saying "Hey, this is creating a serious problem" and not wanting to have that thing at all.

This is a valid criticism. My view is that I use expressing concerns as a proxy to opposition. I admit, the Science.org article must be read uncharitably to support my point, but then a) I didn't expect anyone to engage me in good faith debate b) I was demonstrating a point rather than engaging in nuanced debate of the issue. Here is cleaner example:Northwest Indiana environmental activists oppose Nippon Steel's potential Gary Works investment.

there's a decent fraction of the environmental movement which really does seem stuck in a 1970s sort of "degrowth" or "antigrowth" attitude

I think you are downplaying this, or at the very least "decent faction" putting a lot of unpaid overtime in making your point. I see this aspect as corel tenant of environmentalism. That is, misanthropy is essential part of worship of Gaia.

Comment Re:Environmentalists demand we only subsistence fa (Score 0) 115

Do you agree then that those claims are true though?

I do not, because most of such claims presuppose that the environment is static and pristine. The reality is that there is a great deal of change without any human involvement and often times what humans do is insignificant. While I agree with the goal of protecting humanity's habitat, it ought to be viewed as such - our habitat that should be utilized for humanity's needs.

Slashdot Top Deals

"You need tender loving care once a week - so that I can slap you into shape." - Ellyn Mustard

Working...