I ran my own BBS back in the day as a teenager. Most of the people on BBSes were there because they had an interest in computers, whereas most of the people on modern social media couldn't care less about the technology and are there to discuss something else. It used to be that you had to have some basic knowledge to get online, now phones come preloaded with the Facebook app.
Basically, the normies/"Eternal Septembers" took over.
That somehow the people dying are making the choice.
Yeah, the Russians!
How would I do that? Did you notice that Ukraine (and Russia) have laws against saying what you please and arrest people who say the wrong thing? Did you notice that Ukraine isn't relying on volunteers, they are rounding people up and forcing them to fight. Apparently saying "no" isn't really an option is it? Well at least not unless you simply answer with your feet by fleeing the country.
Wherever you got this information from I assure you information to the contrary is available. One side is pushing this narrative pretty hard...
You really don't get it do you? This is a contest of blood and iron. It doesn't matter what you think as a fan in the audience
Then stop bringing up morality. Is this hard international diplomacy or morals? Come on, you cant pontificate on both ways, the word "morals" has come out of your side on his discussion 10x of mine. What you refuse to accept is your position is as just a moral one of mine. We're either both moralizing or we're both not so stop saying that pedantic bullshit and you know it's bullshit because most people talking about this aren't actually in the war.
The only reason to say this is for some virtue superiority? It's fucking useless statement, not worth the keystrokes to type out. What are we doing here?
If there is a moral argument its whether the likely outcome is worth the human cost. And you haven't made that argument. In fact you have studiously avoided it. Instead you try to pass the buck to imaginary Ukrainians with the imaginary "agency" that enables them to stop the war when they decide it isn't worth the cost. Or imaginary Russians who will suddenly achieve your level of moral enlightenment and sacrifice their interests to achieve it.
I am not making a moral argument at all because I don't think this is a moral contest. I think it is conflict of interests.
The harder argument is whether its in our interest. Your moralizing BS doesn't get us any closer to that answer because it isn't a moral decision.
Oh so easy to have both sides of the argument when you just say I'm the one moralizing and you are not. Stop saying morals already , please
If there is a moral argument its whether the likely outcome is worth the human cost. And you haven't made that argument. In fact you have studiously avoided it.
Again, ask the Ukrainians, you got got like all the literal textbook Russian talking points out there, somehow your media diet has given them to you and you refuse to believe there is another side of the story. At the very least we're both in the mud buddy.
Also generally in the scope of the world, here in America and the land of our allies I don't think it's a good practical, logistical, economical , diplomatic and yes even moral to let an autocratic dictator take over a fledgling European democracy just because he wants it and destabilize an entire region of the world and everyone food and other economic factors. Not outcome of this war achieves the justifications Putin says they want. Is it work Ukrainian lives? Again that's up to them, they can surrender and negotiate anytime they want.
There is a word for this that your position really grounds out to: appeasement. Let the dictator have 1/3 of Ukraine because he wants it and so long as he's willing to put some of his troops in harms way then he gets to have it right? Think of the children, he's just gotta be allowed to take it. Then he promises to stop. Pinky swear!
I definitely don't disagree with this as an option it's just very humorously American. Guns, that's our first answer for every problem!
Maybe. But above of some level of fail and delusion you do not get access to the good layers anymore. Just look at Trump.
Well, IBM was basically a zombie 10 years ago. Something will have to stake them to put them out of their misery. Fully agree on Microsoft. Their stuff is only getting worse at this time and was pretty bad before. And their cloud got hacked several times now and had really, really bad vulnerabilities were nobody knows whether they were attacked or not (which makes things worse). They clearly do not have what it takes to survive with the increased need for IT security we have today.
Life is doing long-term damage. You need to stop listening to the propaganda.
'Negative effects? Quite limited'
Source please. There's a lot to suggest it's doing long term damage
Go and tidy your room
Yes, I know there are strange teenagers that have tidy rooms...
Indeed. Also shows that giants die slowly, unfortunately.
Yeah. China tried that. The UK too. Does not work. And to make things like the TOR browser illegal is not easy and subject to the Streisand-effect.
Simple: They will just learn ways around this ban. And then maybe the surveillance fascist assholes behind it will actually have taught them how to not get spied on later in life.
Or download the TOR browser for zero-configuration and free censorship circumvention. Like people in China do. Good thing too.
Obviously. Kinds that want to have had access to all of the Internet for a long time and that is not going to change. Negative effects? Quite limited and can be compensated with good parenting.
This is exclusively about surveillance fascists getting their wet dreams implemented.
Indeed. Blocks and other restrictions by authoritarian assholes do not work on things people want to do. And that goes even more for teens.
All these teens find out how to circumvent laws made by adult assholes. Might be a good thing too.
Top Ten Things Overheard At The ANSI C Draft Committee Meetings: (2) Thank you for your generous donation, Mr. Wirth.
