And now you're right back to the disingenuous argument I already called out several posts back: Arbitrarily excluding something by fiat pretending that somehow you are the supreme arbiter of what is or isn't relevant and then declaring judgment by your arbitrary, and impossible to satisfy standards.

I have explicitly addressed this exact point multiple times including the very post you are addressing. I have repeated it in such clear terms, and so many times, that there is simply no possible way for you to be posting in good faith and still have missed it.

Gamergate is opposed by a tightly knit toxic clique of spoiled rich kids, a majority if not totality of which embrace a violent and bigoted cult-like ideology which leverages the brand-power of "feminism" and the appearance of "social justice" in order to strongarm those they target and shield themselves from criticism. Part of their subscription to that cult is an unquestioning and radically zealous participation in personality cults surrounding people like Sarkeesian/McIntosh, Wu, and anyone else fulfilling either the "enlightened feminist leader" or "oppressed victim" archetypes within their ideological framework.

Gaming journalists, in their zealous loyalty to this cult-like ideology, have acted as a megaphone for lies and FUD about videogames rivalling the Satanic Panic of the 80's but this time targeting "misogyny" rather than alleged satanistic rituals. In addition to their increasing moralistic bullying of developers resulting in censorship over recent years their acceptance and preaching of Sarkeesian/McIntosh's outright lies and misrepresentations as gospel truth has stirred up anti-videogame hysteria to such a fevered pitch that games are getting outright pulled from shelves.

That's why all of this is tied up in gaming journalism. Because gaming journalism has become a bully pulpit from which SJWism is preached, using its power and influence to blacklist or blackmail anyone that GameJournoPros members or the SJW leaders they're loyal to dislike.

Exactly. The problem isn't frustration with different interface schemes, the problem is that they don't fucking work. I use several different programs with buttons and menus in different arrangements, but when I click a button the button is bloody well clicked regardless of where exactly it is. Voice recognition on the other hand is simply too unreliable.

1. The principal grievances are against the major gaming journalism websites and leading members of the leaked GameJournoPros list, parallel to that is the issue of an incredibly toxic and bigoted cult-like ideology which masquerades as "feminism" or "social justice" which has a number of major figureheads who the aforementioned GJP members essentially bow down to.

2. Blacklisting, bribery, blackmail, collusion, favoritism, plagiarism, theft, wholeheartedly promoting an absolutely toxic ideology that encourages violence to the point children are growing up thinking threatening other children with rape and murder is being a "good feminist", basically turning into Jack Thompson 2.0 but actually succeeding in getting games censored and pulled from shelves, and increasingly there's evidence for racketeering six digit sums or more. And all of this is before you consider the outright criminal attacks against those protesting them which have included people getting their bank accounts hacked, losing jobs to racially targeted harassment, and getting knives, syringes, and dead animals in the mail.

3. All attempts over the years at asking for self policing, ditching the toxicity, and reform have utterly failed and resulted in severe backlash from those involved in the corruption. When directly protested they immediately started up the "harassment of women" narrative, going so far as to pay the GNAA for fake tweets and simply make things up from whole cloth while continuing to publicly encourage and even engage in criminal attacks far more often and more severe than anything they claimed to be a victim of.

4a. Because these people are using the staggering social power that the name-brand of "feminism" and the image of female victimhood gives them this requires a massive social response from the bottom up. It requires a combination of claiming "feminism" no longer being an instant "I Win" button in any situation and widespread recognition of the facts.

4b.The FTC is in a position to address to address some concerns which fall under their regulatory purview, which they in fact have.

5. In a perfect world they all break free of the unhealthy and violent cult that they've joined and toxic SJWism becomes widely discredited and expunged from feminism as a whole, leading to hateful bigots like Marcotte getting thrown out and con artists/nutcases like Sarkeesian/McIntosh seen as crackpots and scammers. Since that's almost certainly not going to happen the next best thing is these bigots and con artists being seen for what they are and at least abandoned and left to wither like Jack Thompson was, with their rhetoric of fear, hate, and disempowerment largely discredited. Once the means by which they justify and spread their corruption is taken care of (your "culture") serious regulatory reform such as the formal adoption of the SPJ can take place. That can't happen until AFTER the SJWism is dealt with though because it's necessary to be able to criticise and hold people responsible for violating ethics policies... you can't do that with SJWs. As we've seen with gamergate they simply lie and hide behind "feminism", using it as a weapon to smear their opponents and a shield against all criticism.

6a. Very effective actually. The sheer level of violence, hate, and toxicity coming from the GJP supporters and SJWs has discredited them in the eyes of many and the sheer quantity and depth of their lies has led to a lot of the general public learning just how much the media lies to them (at least on these subjects). It's becoming routine for the latest lie filled hit-piece to come out and a few hundred to a few thousand people to join gamergate in disgust.

6b. A majority of major gaming journalism websites have either voluntarily undertaken ethical reforms, or they were forced by the FTC to at the very least stop scamming people with undisclosed native advertising and referral links thanks to gamergate's lobbying for regulatory reform in that area.

The difference is quantitative, not qualitative. The near universal history of abuses internet Great Firewalls have is well documented, one being semi or wholly mandatory just makes it a bigger threat.

All you have to do is not suck. Just don't completely fuck this up like gnome and ubuntu did and you'll be fine.

Normally I hate citing wikipedia, esp on politically divisive topics, but I'm doing it now just to show how mainstream this criticism is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

At this point you're refusing to even have a conversation in favor of a one-sided proselytization where you do nothing but ignore whatever I say and harp on your broken narrative of "obsessing about individuals". You are not speaking sensibly, you're talking bullshit, you're contradicting yourself, and you're refusing to listen.

You can't "ask the magazines" because there's no such thing as a "magazine", the magazine is nothing more than a collection of INDIVIDUALS that may or may not be corrupt. Do you get this? Do you get that we don't live in a magic fantasy land where "magazines" and "websites" and "corruption" are living things that you can target directly? Do you understand that these are not real entities, they're just made up of INDIVIDUALS and the only way to make any change is to deal with the individuals behind them? Do you understand that? That human beings are what write magazines and webpages? Because I don't think you do.

What you are demanding is no different than telling the police to "stop crime" and then telling them not to actually arrest any criminals. It's impossible, because the only way to actually stop crime is to arrest the criminals committing crimes.

And on top of that, you need to stop taking what the very people BEING protested say for granted. The entire problem is that the other side is simply flat out lying. It doesn't matter what gamergate says or does the other side will simply lie through their teeth and claim gamergate is "harassing women".

Again you are saying two different contradictory things at the same time and then acting surprised when I point this out. Corruption isn't some magical infection that just appears and takes over people's brains like a fungus, there isn't some corrupt-o-beam hitting SF from outer space. Just like organized crime does in fact have leaders so too does organized corruption in gaming journalism, in this case the leaders being the most prominent voices in the toxic SJW cult and most influential members of the leaked GameJournoPros list.

Your second paragraph sums up the reason your argument is fallacious and very often one of the exact arguments used in bad faith by GameJournoPros supporters: You can't "focus on the whole" like some kind of magic cosmic entity existing in its own right, the "whole" is made of individuals.

Your demand is impossible to ever satisfy. You can't "end corruption" any more than you can "stop crime". You need to deal with tangible individual criminals and sources of corruption until there are none left, like weeding a garden. This is especially a problem when one of the defining features of the other side is its cults of personality.

At this point I'm starting to wonder whether you really don't get that you're making self-contradicting statements and impossible demands, or whether you're just a very civil troll arguing in bad faith.

The difference is this isn't a slipper slope fallacy because these kinds of block lists have already been shown to be used for political purposes wherever they show up. It's not unsubstantiated conjecture.

The level of doublethink you're engaging in is astounding. "this is meant to be about the corruption in gaming media" but then in the very next sentence you turn around and say the most prominent individuals who are leading that corruption are irrelevant. The fact that violent racists and bigots are using "feminism" to gain influence and social power as well as shield themselves from criticism IS a core part of the corruption in gaming media.

Also this isn't about likely or unlikely, there's proof of these things. The GNAA wasn't even TRYING to hide their actions, even zoe herself retweeted their offers to pay for fake gamergate tweets. This is easily verifiable, just like it's easily verifiable that r/games mods only selectively censor things.

Your posts are starting to not make sense, you're saying two different things at the same time and trying to act like you're not.

What's been "repeatedly proven" is that McIntosh takes things out of context, misrepresents them, or simply makes things up entirely (as in the most recent videos). It's also been proven that Sarkeesian is a former PUA scam artist saleswoman and that her videos were works of plagiarism and theft.

Then the problem is you're coming into something that's based on a lot of hard research, cross-checking financial records and ties, private listservs that have been leaked, and so on and then expecting it to be as immediately comprehensible as a daylight bank robbery. Unfortunately it's not.

The reason r/games and r/gaming get called out is because they've deleted tens of thousands of posts and censor everything that isn't pro-GameJournoPros, but are perfectly happy to post proven lies and misinformation if it fits their prejudices. The idea tht they "want to talk about games" falls flat.

When it comes to the "literally whos" nobody is obsessed with them, they keep shoving themselves into everything because that's how they make money. They are living examples of how the system is broken and dysfunctional and people ARE focusing on their actions and the system, but there's nothing in this world more powerful than a woman's tears. All they have to do is cry "harassment! misogyny!" and even someone pointing out they're factually wrong becomes worse than sealclubbing.

As for being better than the other side... gamergate has gone to the lengths of filing FBI reports and organizing an unprecedented level of policing on twitter. Everything blamed on them has been proven to either not have been real in the first place (Brianna Wu's "Brololz" fake account) or the act of third party trolls (Zoe working with the GNAA to pay for fake harassing tweets). Meanwhile the most prominent leading voices on the other side are neonazis, domestic abusers, and violent racists who publicly encourage and participate in doxing and SWATting. It's just not comparable.

To quote Kazerad: Gamergate may be morally grey, but the people they're fighting are morally devoid.

It's recognized but by very few. Just look at how Hoff-Sommers gets treated vs Marcotte.

Maybe you should start with understanding how websites like crowdrise work before libelling people.

"t is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'"

You are trying to claim that hundreds of thousands of people of all races, orientations, genders, and political stripes have come together for 6 months in a conspiracy of staggering size and scope, for an unprecedented duration, for the sole reason that they happen to hate women. And that they way they express this is by raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for radical feminists, anti-bullying/anti-suicide charities, and lobbying the FTC for regulatory reform (which they got, in fact).

I think the person sounding like a 9/11 truther here is the one siding with neonazis, domestic abusers, and violent racists.