Yes, okay. That is a funny thought experiment, but Verizon isn't actually confused about the fact that as a local ISP Verizon customers are the ones actually requesting netflix video so the concept of peering traffic "parity" does not apply to local ISPs connecting to backbone providers.

And naturally Verizon customers are all in a huff about Verizon trying to charge them twice for bandwidth they aren't receiving.

Traffic "parity" is only relevant when you are talking about backbone Internet providers providing alternative routes in order to help make the Internet routing more robust. Basically an I'll scratch your back and you scratch my back mutually beneficial scenario where having two equal backbone Internet partners is more robust than having just one route over a long haul network. So for instance having a peering agreement with a company that has a wire from LA to Boston so that if your LA to Boston wire goes down, then your traffic can still get through.

But when you are talking about last-mile customers who are the ones initiating the requests for content, then peering is not about traffic parity, it is about providing your customers with the bandwidth to the content they want. As long as L3 is willing to provide adequate bandwidth connections to Verizon's networks in the local metropolitan areas, then they are fulfilling their end of the bargain as a backbone provider peering with a local ISP.

Sure, if L3 was just saying they were going to dump all the Internet Traffic destined for the East Coast in LA and Verizon could deal with getting it across the country, then that wouldn't fly. But as far as I know L3 is ready willing and able to send all the traffic across the country and put it as geographically close to the Verizon customers who are requesting the content as Verizon will allow. But it is Verizon simply saying they won't allow L3 to increase the bandwidth to Verizon Customers until Verizon gets a bigger cut of the action.

Transit capacity is irrelevant. L3 is a backbone Internet provider. They have plenty of bandwidth to get all the packets to Verizon's networks in the areas Verizon serves. Verizon is just unwilling to provide their own Verizon customers with the bandwidth they require to access the content they want.

False logic. You could have argued the same wrong point back when 90% of the population worked in food production. Industrial revolution, free market capitalism brought individual productivity up dramatically and thus allowed workers to work much less to produce much more, not just for themselves but for everybody else. Before government stepped in to destroy the free market capitalism by changing laws so that laws would not apply equally to different people, free market capitalism was working to reduce the length of the work week and to reduce work hours in a day. Without government intervention in the last 100 years, free market capitalism would have brought work week and work hours even lower. 3 day work week, 8 hour days while making enough to live middle class life? Free market was working towards that. Government destroyed that dynamic and stopped and reversed that trend.

I understand just fine. That's why I know better than most that what you are saying is a load of complete and utter crap deserving of contempt. Data coming from level 3 is being requested by Verizon Customers. Verizon isn't acting as a transit network unless they want to, so peering is just about getting Verizon customers the data they are requesting. Level 3 would gladly peer with Verizon in every metropolitan area in which they operate at very high speeds. Verizon is choosing not to.

I bet Verizon knows. ;) Pending an upgrade....Ya right, more like pending a nice fat check from Netlfix or L3

That is a load of horseshit!

Or let me be clear. That is a load of horeshit technobabble meant to obfuscate and mislead. Level 3 was pretty clear the other day when they offered to spend a few thousand dollars to upgrade their links to Verizon. Level 3 is a backbone Internet provider. There is no reason that any link between it and another network should remain saturated if both sides are acting in good faith to serve their respective customers, especially when L3 was willing to pay the costs to upgrade Verizon's own equipement to handle more traffic which it shouldn't have had to do because it is Verizon's customers who are requesting and already paying for the content in the first place.

Verizon is choosing to not upgrade its connections to shake down Netflix, and thus pass those costs on to Verizon customers. Period.

More like "Payola" than anything else. You subscibe to their service and then they are shaking down the content providers for bribes in order to give them higher speeds to you, while they are telling you that you are getting a certain speed and lying about the reasons why you are not getting content at the speeds you are paying for. Seems like the anology of radio stations taking bribes to feature certain content without informing the consumers of that relationship is most appropriate.

physics is a manmade endeavor, the "laws of physics" are inventions of man. Reality may work another way, not according to any model that man's mind could devise.

I think I replied to something similar already, so you can enjoy the answer if you like.

But that simply indicates that the economy in USA is in such shambles (which I argue it is) that there are so few actual real jobs available that it is possible to get people to work for little money and no other benefits. However if that it the case (and the economy in USA is dying AFAIC due to government created inflation and destruction of individual freedom, which caused massive capital outflow and massive loss of productivity, huge growth of deficits, debts, destruction of full time jobs that are either not replaced at all or are replaced with worse quality, lower paying, part time jobs) then it stands to reason that in fact the worker in USA cannot afford to take a paid vacation and this is not a problem that is created by an employer, this is a problem created very democratically (mobocratically) by the employees (majority voters) and politicians who promise this free lunch to the majority voters. Employers do not make weather in terms of the government pushing policy through that is catered towards the majority voters.

Employers search for ways to avoid being taxed and being driven out of business, so employers move to other countries, they search for ways to reduce their total costs, this includes cost of labour and taxes and regulations.

So when you are saying that the situation in USA is bad, I agree with you, it is. It is bad for reasons that are much beyond most /.ers, so never mind, you can read my journal. However this still does not mean that government can force an employer to add something on top of what an employer would pay for labour.

Labour has a price, however this cost is paid for, no employer will be overpaying. The market conditions are such, that American workers cannot expect anything anymore, not because any one of them is particularly bad or lazy, but because the system is such that their productivity is worth less than before, much less than before the dollar was actually redeemable in gold, much less than before there were any income taxes, any government labour laws, any government business regulations.

A Ford employee back in 1913 was making 5 dollars a day, working 5 days a week, 8 hour shifts. An ounce of gold was 19 dollars. There were no income taxes that applied to anybody pretty much (and by the way, the income tax is illegal for so many reasons, again, a different discussion).

5 days x 5 dollars = 25 dollars a week. That bought 1.25 ounces of gold in a week. Under current prices that would mean about 1625 USD per week or 6500 USD a month or about 78000 a year. No taxes. No payroll tax, no income tax, no Medicare, no Medicaid, no SS, no business taxes of any kind, no education taxes, no road taxes, not even gasoline taxes.

Yes, there were import taxes and some duties, alcohol accounted for 50% of taxes in USA at the time. But you didn't actually have to pay those taxes because you could avoid buying those products.

So what does it mean in today's terms in USA to make 78000 after tax? You can easily more than double that amount just to start understanding what it means, you really have to do more than double it though, because at the time prices for things were going down, not up.

The dollar was gaining value, not losing it. A man could save money, buy a house, no mortgage, have a family, 10 kids or more, stay home wife, she didn't have to work though 10 kids is probably more than enough of work. But people had live in help and it was possible because there were no welfare checks coming to anybody to do nothing.

My point is, when you talk about low standard of living in USA today I agree with you! I think 19th century lifted the standard of living of Americans more than the 20th century and since 1971 the standard of living of Americans has been falling actually because their productivity was falling due to all this government, all the rules, regulations, taxes, inflation and all the government debt financed spending.

You can't use more government to fix problems created by government and no amount of government mandated paid vacation time will lift your standard of living, it only ends up lowering it further as businesses move out and automate more and more.

I worked as a contractor software developer/architect for 10 years, always negotiating everything I needed to negotiate in every contract. I had probably negotiated 30 or so contracts (and contract extensions) in that time period and nothing was off the table. I worked for large companies and for small, negotiation was always part of the process.

- you mean I know what I am talking about. I run my company, so you are correct, I am a manager - managing a business. I make hiring decisions, I make product decisions. I am also the chief architect, every one of my employees comes to me with the question "what do I do next?" when they are done with the current task. I deal with the clients, I search for new ones, I decide what internal products we are building, I decides what technology we use, I decide what everybody does here. Yes, I manage the place and I do know what I am talking about whether this concerns technology or hiring or client communications and of-course writing checks.