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Comment Re:"Venerable"? (Score 1) 173

"Venerable" does not quite mean "decrepit". The meaning is more like respect for an elder. "Official standard" or not, it has been around as a real language since the early 90s (Borland?), which definitely makes it an elder in computer land. I mean, Windows is written in C++ and it definitely gets the "venerable" title by now.

Comment Re:Why not future proof the application? (Score 1) 257

I'm apparently obsolete in my thinking :)

My familiarity is mostly with older installs and the problems in keeping older infrastructure working. There is a whole cottage industry built around that very problem... lots of things out there like serial to Ethernet converters. You can slowly modernize this kind of a system, but at some point you have to start moving things over to a more modern controller.

Comment Re:Why not future proof the application? (Score 1) 257

If we are talking control systems, then the best bet is to go browse the popular offerings from Schneider or Siemens. Those will be around and supported for a very long time, and you won't be the only idiot out there building a factory with it. You naturally want to update things - that's the whole point of this question - but it is not like you are going to be continuously upgrading the core architecture over the 25 year life. I would not be surprised at all if the same architecture is in place for 25 years at a single installation. Sure, you'll swap out parts and maybe even the controller a few times - but it will all look very familiar to the guy who originally spec'd it, and new people will roll their eyes and laugh at it.

If it is something in IT land, that is out of my field. There are many suggestions on here - but I'm betting that anything popular (Linux, Windows, BSDs, mainframes) will run in emulation going forward. I'd probably avoid Oracle, Apple, or other proprietary hardware - even though I told you to go with proprietary stuff for the factory :)

Comment Re:Why not future proof the application? (Score 1) 257

I think we're talking past one another. The original poster is asking about future-proofing his development, not freezing development. Naturally you want the system to be adaptable and as easy to update as is possible - but the basic architecture is probably going to be pretty much frozen in time. "Upgraded" equipment is usually compatible with the same interface, and they tend to make popular interfaces for a very long time. Even when the interface becomes obsolete, there is usually a very long period with transitional hardware. At some point - unless you are lucky - you are looking at replacing the controller, and that can be quite painful so it makes sense to (a) put that off as long as possible, (b) spend time up front picking a popular and flexible platform.

Comment Re:Why not future proof the application? (Score 1) 257

Heh, don't buy stock in that company.

I'm doing a very minor thing at work right now in the same vein. We have some ancient equipment that would cost $60-70k to replace. It still works, but the data collection PC just died. It had a workflow involving macros, Windows 2000, and several serial ports. I need to get it all working with the Win7 replacement - but at least it is all simple serial communication and the equipment seems amenable to USB adapters, and the communication is well-documented. There are two stations, so it isn't exactly time-critical - but I totally get why people would not want to spend money until absolutely necessary.

Comment Re:Why not future proof the application? (Score 1) 257

I don't think many people would wait until their last spare to start retrofitting their system. At the same time, you want to stretch your investment as long as you can get away with it.

In the case of old style PLCs, there have been a number of transitional technologies, since so many people were in the same situation.

Comment Re:Why not future proof the application? (Score 3, Informative) 257

That depends on the application. If he's making an industrial control system, then no, he probably will not be maintaining it organically. It will get built, qualified, and then expected to run for the life of the process. Think nuclear plant... what is more painful, re-qualification or running obsolete tools? Plants built in the 80s (power, sewer, etc) are still running DOS control systems with ancient serial PLCs.

Comment Re:Will the Linux kernel even be around in 5 years (Score 2) 257

Linux is at the heart of many embedded devices, most smartphones, and a whole crapload of servers. Given the staying power of golden oldies like COBOL running on mainframes (or virtualized mainframes), I don't think that there is any doubt that the Linux kernel will be around.

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