Oh yo. I'm with you there. You happen to have $30 billion on you by chance?

Every time someone mentions the "clean" of nuclear, I need to remind them that, I'm not anti-nuclear, I'm just a realist on price tag. 1GWh nuclear is around $20B to $30B and 1 GWh solar comes in around $780M. At least for face plate values. I'm not joking in that we could literally build a 5 GWh LFP battery for about a quarter the cost of the nuke, and in three to five years that price tag for the battery will be about half. So 1 GWh + 5 GWh battery could be done about four(ish) times for the tag of a single nuclear. Even if the sun didn't shine, we've got enough pepper on the land with that many installs, to still not justify the nuclear plant.

I love me some nuclear energy, but goddamn the price tag is fucking insane. The sobering point was like five to seven years ago for nuclear. These motherfuckers can press panels faster and cheaper every year.

Which, how's that different than right now? How's that different than 30 years ago? Like this is such a silly argument. EU has never soloed their energy production, but when people talk of solar and wind, "OH NO, you have to do it 100% inside that way or nothing!"

But that's not an unrealistic thing on a multi decade timescale. Like some people get hung up on building a 100GWh battery by tomorrow and that's not realistic. But seeing how LFP can reasonably over a ten to twelve year period produce that amount of storage, it is indeed, that we could possibly do that given enough time.

And I'm not saying you're wrong here, but we've got the technology to overcome it. It's a matter of time and cost, not technology. We can technically overcome that aspect.

Something to point out here as well is that the batteries they are talking about wouldn't even be good at consumer grade things. They're a different chemistry that prizes storage, cheap up front cost, and long life over most other factors. There's trade offs they have to take like the low energy density, the complexities of ventilation and how you can only stack these things so high, and the delivery of these things at some of the places of generation (like wind farms).

This is one of the cooler things about battery storage over traditional fuels. Chemistry can be modified to meet application, it's just a matter of researching the chemical attributes that yield the desired results.

You miss the point.

And that's where you miss it. For sake of argument, let's say your 2% is correct, just as a gimme for you. Social media will take any ONE of that 2% and promote it to billions of people on the planet IF that one person appeases the algorithm.

That is broken software no matter how you slice it.

People, please, I'm fucking begging you, stop eating the whole fucking ham on anything and literally EVERYTHING you read, see, and hear on social media.

We're fucking doomed this election cycle and every single one thereafter. Social media is a goddamn blight. It isn't so much the being able to post shit randomly, it's the being able to post shit randomly, and then some fucking algorithm that can get it into the face of a million more people if it'll get the hate boner going. It the fact that we've got software that's been trained to prioritize eyeballs among all other things, no verify, no need to have history, and people defend this software as "well the public has to learn". If we have bad software, we don't change the fucking people, we change the goddamn software. How the hell did anyone forget this?! If you open a one-day account that has zero backing information, you too can have your shit spread to ten percent of the entire planet if you just satisfy our money, er, advertising, er, popularity algorithm. There is zero justification for this outside of it's making someone some cash.

I don't mind online forums, but if a forum has the ability to dump the worst of the worst (because that's popular at this moment) onto the default thing that millions of people who might not have even subscribed to that topic see. THAT IS A PROBLEM. When the software is picking what I should see, that's the big problem. And if I have to click "I'm not interested in this" 500 times because "the algorithm" that's not the person, that's the software. I remember that when we had popups, we didn't go "oh you should just not go there or you should just get better at dismissing popups", we fucking made a popup blocker.

That's the massive problem of social media versus something like online forums. Online forums you get what you get. Social media is filling your feed with anything that will appeal to people who want to spend at most five seconds on something. So it's obvious, quality is NOT the priority. So the fact that so many people will take something that so downplays actual quality as something to attempt to ruin a person's career over it with literally a single source. BUT All that said, I'm not going to downplay it. It's 50-50 on these fucking people who ate this shit at face value and the social media networks that ensured this bullshit got in front of as many eyes as possible.

Boeing's upper echelons are full out cult completely divorced of anything on the ground. Retaliation isn't just in the wheel house, it is the goddamn cornerstone of ensuring profits above all else.

And the thing is that most of these cult boys see retaliation as some black and white concept, as unless I fucking came down there and actually slit your throat, I didn't actually retaliate. None of them understanding that they seed a cult of personalty that encourages people "no matter what you do, DO NOT HURT OUR PROFITS!" and via that mentality they enact all kinds of retaliation to anyone who disrupts the dollar.

Yes, yes, we know. You investigated yourselves and found nothing wrong. I don't think you can cult harder than that.

I hope the US government takes these shitheads to task. But in the end the MBAs, the PHBs, and the board of fuckwits will all get off scot-free because so long as you're a captain of capitalism, you can just do whatever the fuck you want and we'll just ask you nicely to please stop.

Fuck Boeing's top ranks, they've taken a company committed to quality and safety, and turned it into a profit at all costs shit hole that's become the defining quality of the United States various enterprises here of late. The enshitification continues

Analysis by others seems to point out that the most fundamental requirement will be SSE 4.2 and the popcnt SSE instruction specifically, paired with the most fundamental requirement being TPM 2.0/Secure boot this is basically any CPU in the last six years or so (rough estimate there), but that's mostly the TPM requirement holding you back. SSE 4.2 is about 12 (? I think I didn't look up the age, I'm just guessing here) years old in CPUs, I think the standard is 15 years old. Anyway, the bare minimum requirement in this story is a nothing burger. More importantly is the fact that Microsoft is still going whole hog with AI integration which sucks. If you didn't have the bare minimum requirement, you weren't running Windows 11 to begin with (without hacking the OS to work). But clearly, they're gearing up to make cloud+AI in their OS an absolute requirement be it you like that or not. I think that's the bigger story.

It's not the missing. It's the you indicating "because of this, it isn't the year of the wayland desktop". No year is going to be the year of the wayland desktop. You keep missing this aspect in what I write.

You. As I've pointed out multiple times.

You read sensationalism and knee-jerk. You should do better.

If you want something more elaborate you can read any of my previous comments.

I absolutely did. Likely You didn't read it. I read everything you wrote. But it's whatever, I couldn't image someone who wants to cry to actually want a debate. At least you fessed up to that much.

And you can stop reading at this point if you want.

But yeah, the entire point is that you've demonstrated a pretty weak resolve but simply bitching about something and attempting to justify that bitching with some bullshit headline. Again, you want more details than that, you can read any of the previous comments I've written.

This has nothing do with Wayland. Has everything to do with your cry a river attitude. But you've likely read nothing I wrote, so I shouldn't expect you to understand that.

I'll just say that the Unix Philosophy is madding at times. And you mentioned TCP, that's an incredibly good example of where "the UNIX way" never made sense. You've got a single API for the everything is a file thing, but when you dip into sockets you start getting an API that is more specific to those sockets. I mean you can totally use fgets and fread for a socket, but you also get recv, poll, and select because sockets don't neatly follow the everything is a file metaphor.

And TCP was just the start. I mean you start wading into writing a USB device driver and you get to learn the wonderful world of ioctl. And I'm far from dissing that, I totally understand why it is there. How do you map into "everything is a file" something like the eject feature of a CD-ROM? But what I'm getting at is that how hard one applies the UNIX way varies from person to person. Like McIlroy's:

Makes sense if we only deal with a single encoding. What if we're on UTF-8? Or EBCDIC? Like I get the idea, I get how it helps, I don't discount it, but sometimes in the history of things, people have applied that UNIX way a bit too hard to create interfaces that are cumbersome to say the least. Sometimes what you need is an API that deals with USB events. Sometimes what you need is a netfilter API.

But I won't go too far there. I'm not here to begin dissing the UNIX way, but one of the things I've seen with the UNIX way is that it is consistently inconsistent. And sometimes an almost dogmatic following of the UNIX way leads us to messier interfaces. I think that kind of leads into what you were saying about non-UNIX systems. The UNIX way has pros and they are many, but sometimes I think people forget the cons too.

You know there's lots of folks who would hate on the folks who don't embrace systemd, but I think it's pretty cool we're in a world with sysvinit and systemd. I think that choice that's out there is great. I hate that all the XOrg folks took the Xgl thing personally and now we're looking at loosing XOrg forever, I rather us be somewhere where X and Wayland could coexist. I thought Canonical's MIR was a pretty neat idea back in the day, just that I had a pretty good sense that they were outside their level of ability when they starting saying they'd have MIR done in like three to four years.

You know I think that's awesome you get to be in both. You don't have to love it. I have to support RPGIII code and some COBOL systems. I don't love, but it gets the bills paid. And it's pretty neat to hammer out a DDS and DDL.

I think with as wide as things are, I think there's plenty of room for all of us. Some folks say the thrill is gone and Linux is corporate, but I believe that's only true if we let it be true. And there's folks like yourself out there keeping the novelty alive.

Damn you totally didn't read shit I wrote.

It's your feature. I'm perfectly fine with the state of KDE + Wayland. It sounds like you should be the one that codes it. You've got to get better arguments, you're coming off pretty weak here.

Or perhaps it's not ready for you. Don't use Wayland then. And stop using shitty ass click bait headlines to justify you coming in and bitching. No one says "year of the wayland desktop" outside of the author of this click bait. You ate some shitty ass headline, hook, line, and sinker. This is all on you because you've been using "HEY EVERYONE HERE'S SOME SENSATIONAL BULLSHIT TO GET YOUR FIVE MINUTES HATE ON" to justify your "Wah Wayland doesn't have this one thing!".

I mean c'mon. You got to be better than this. You got to rise past click bait. This fucking headline played you like a two bit fiddle. I keep yelling at you, not because I want you to use Wayland, I keep yelling at you because you just refuse to admit you ate this click bait. And somehow, me pointing that out makes you think "OH WELL THIS PERSON THINKS WAYLAND IS THE BEST!!" NO I don't think that, it's software, it has issues. Stop getting a hate boner off of bullshit headlines. At least do that one thing. I don't think that's too much to ask. I don't give a shit if you never use Wayland, in fact it kind of would be cool if you never made the jump. But that's all you, I'm not here to tell you one or the other. BUT STOP BEING A BITCH TO SENSATIONAL BULLSHIT.

I don't know how to break it to you. This "Year of the Wayland desktop" is just bullshit someone wrote so that you could knee-jerk to it. Me pointing it out isn't commenting anything on the state of Wayland or X or anything.

I don't need it. Apparently you do. Because clearly for you, this is the make or break feature.

I don't care if you do or don't. I've told you in at least three different replies. You do NOT have to move to Wayland. Shit, stick with Xorg forever. I welcome having Xorg and Wayland together. I've said that like at least a dozen times already. I honestly do not care if you move to Wayland or not. And if someone wanted to support Xorg, that would be awesome. Having MORE CHOICE is better than LESS CHOICE. I don't understand how you keep missing this point I've said over and over.

Nobody is missing anyone over not moving or hesitation to move to Wayland. Stick with what works for you for as long as you want to. But the thing is, if there's a feature you're pinning yourself on, you're best bet is to write it yourself.

Then shut the fuck up. You come off as someone who won't cook dinner for themselves complaining to everyone that your hungry. You ain't six, no one needs to hold your hand. We can be big kids here.

See you keep getting all of it wrong. RedHat is no different than you. RedHat just wants free shit. They are gung ho on whatever has devs behind it. They, and a few others, ran off the Xorg devs. Then they saw video cards advancing faster than they could actually keep up with and justify the cost of free shit. So now, they're all gung ho with Wayland, because they just want free shit to sell contracts to people.

And see you're just "I'm resigned to my fate". That's the part I'm invested here. You're like why you care so much about Wayland. No. Like I said, I care about you. You're not resigned to anything. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO WAYLAND. That's what I keep telling you. You keep thinking I'm sitting here cheerleading Wayland, far from it. Go work on Xorg. Go put some code behind it. Go make Xorg the best thing ever. If that's what you want. GO DO WHAT YOU WANT, stop playing victim. That is what I keep trying to tell you. You aren't a victim in this. That's what is awesome about open source. Whatever it is that you want, you can code it and have it. No one stops you. I don't care about Wayland or Xorg or whatever, I care about YOU. You have to stop the victim mentality. Every reply you've given, the entire point I reply back is so that you understand, you have way more say in this whole whatever, than you let yourself have.

And you cower away from that power you have when you tell yourself shit like:

You are playing into your own victim mentality. And only you can square that with yourself. You are not helpless in this.

That right there. That line in your comment. THAT'S THE SHIT I GET UPSET ABOUT. "Waaaa!! RedHat wants blah blah blah, woe is me!!" That. You aren't helpless, shut the fuck up. Do not let bitches like RedHat be the be all, says all. They can be a partner, but the power they have to dictate the vast majority of what happens for things like systemd and GNOME is largely because fuckers like you roll over and cry instead of doing something. RedHat only has as much power AS YOU GIVE THEM.

This isn't about Wayland, it's about how a ton of people just roll over because they want free shit. You know I have tons of respect for the folks who left Linux to BSD over systemd. I personally, am meh about systemd, it's a pretty neat thing, but I get it. It's not everyone's cup of tea. We should have choice to pick out what we want. The people who made Linux distros with out systemd, mad respect. The various BSDs that have resisted the various systemd like pitches, mad respect. BSDs like MacOS that have a systemd "like" init, mad respect. Because all of those represent more choice.

So just so w're clear. I don't give a shit if you use Wayland or Xorg or directfb, or whatever the fuck. What I do care about is your shitty ass roll over and die attitude when it comes to Xorg. Because that's become a major thing in a lot of projects, people who will bitch to the high heavens about how they're a victim to devs that just don't care. YOU ARE NO VICTIM HERE. Get over your goddamn self. Snap out of this bullshit you've lulled yourself into. OR go fucking buy a copy of Microsoft Windows, either way. It's ultimately your call. You get to call the shots here. YOU ARE NOT A VICTIM.

And all of this, you say "well it's not ever going to be the year of the Wayland desktop!" Only this shitty ass person who wrote something for clicks SAYS THAT. You want to debate the merits of "will it or won't it be Wayland desktop wahtever"? Go take it up with the author of this fuck piece of trash that's got screaming "woe is me!" I'll tell you, "there's no woe here that you didn't create", as far as Wayland desktop whatever bullshit person wrote about, I don't care. But don't come here crying "Waaahhh!! Window placement!!" Go write it, or don't, I don't care. Just stop blubbering all over the fucking place, you are way better than that. Every single one of us is. And stop justifying your tears on the predication that "Someone wrote some sensational bullshit! I am now justified to create a small river with my tears!!" NO! Someone just wrote some sensational bullshit, that's all there is. It's just some dumb click bait that you went super hard on. And I have replied over and over, NOT BECAUSE OF WAYLAND, but because the falling for clickbait shit like this is... I don't know, I guess we're all just going to have to deal with every time someone writes something to get a hate erection from everyone, there will be people marching out playing victim. I would rather us not and that's the entire point of all the replies.

I'm just tired of click bait doing this shit to people. It's in a ton of domains, not just Wayland or Linux or FOSS or tech. There's way too many people who go limp and helpless when some idiot writes some dumb click bait. I really dislike this, that's seemingly everywhere. Because you keep echoing this dumb fucker's argument.

Like everyone believes it and thus your justified in all this bullshit you've said. You ate the whole fucking hook, line, and sinker some of the fucking boat, and the fisherman, plus a few gallons of ocean water. No one I know who actually contributes fucking says this shit because thinking in these terms IS BULLSHIT. Why do you think Linus always gives a chuckle when someone says "year of the desktop Linux"? Because it's just marketing bullshit. Bullshit people care about bullshit. That's why I care, I'm tired of people buying into BULLSHIT!! And it's everywhere, it's everywhere. Someone writes one thing to elicit a hate reaction and FUCK if people don't come out in droves to air their fucking hate.

It tiresome. But I say this, like, six or whatever comments deep because you and I and the other people who are here, ARE BETTER THAN THIS. We don't have to buy into bullshit, we don't have to roll over and play victim. We get to set the tempo, that's why open source is awesome. And shit like this, tries to convince you, you don't have any power. "LIKE OH NO!! YEAR OF THE DESKTOP WAYLAND IS INEVITABLE!" It's just bullshit to convince you that none of this is in your hands, when in fact, it is. It is in all of our hands, if we so choose it.

So you tell me. We're this far in comment wise, what do you think I'm invested in? What do you think would be the rational end to it? Hmm? I'm tired of people eating bullshit and crying about it. Because it literally happens everywhere. We can be better, but we have to allow ourselves know that we can be better. And that's not "I'm fucking gold" speak, **I** can be better. I said it in like one of the first comments here. If anyone of us are in this, not understanding it's always an uphill, then we are toast. You can be better, I can be better, we can all be better. And we can start by not buying this bullshit, playing victim, thinking things are outside our control, and then crying everywhere to convince more people that "completely out of our hands" is the correct mindset. This is way bigger than just "Oh no, I'm so sad that you won't use Wayland."

And it used to be that coming here to Slashdot wasn't the sad state of affairs that it has become. Used to be that you'd see some bullshit about some whatever getting introduced and a bunch of people going, "Oh no they're not" and start hitting the repos. For as much as this site has slowly made Lennart Poettering the most evil man in open source ever, he didn't murder anyone to get his position of power. The people who were writing the software, just stopped and let his projects take over. No one slipped someone some hush money, or sucked some dick, or held to gunpoint that this project was going to be the whatever chosen one. No. It was quite simply that all the competitors stopped and they stopped for a variety of reasons, but they all just simply stopped writing quality software. Some of them tried to play it off as "don't fix what isn't broken" and that never works, that's just a sure fire way to see your project die.

All the woe I see on Slashdot now was created by the very people who talk about the woe they face. And it does not have to be this way. But I don't know how to convince people anymore, I'm in my early sixties, I don't know how much longer I've got here. But you all have way more power than you let yourselves believe yourself to have. You all are way, way, way better than this.

But fuck it. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm being irrational. Enjoy never having Window Placement, I guess. And condolences for when RedHat eventually assfucks you, kills your dog, steals your groceries, and forces you to use Wayland. I guess I can only wish that there was a better way.

Dude, it's super simple here. There's a feature missing you'd like. Why can't you go add that? Why can you not go pay to have someone add it? That's the entire point. And then you're like "Well X had it" yeah and X doesn't have any devs any more, so it doesn't matter what X does or doesn't have, eventually hardware will be release that X won't run on anymore, unless you change that.

That's it. That's all there is to it. You bemoan the loss of a feature and I'm asking, "what have you done about it, outside of come here and whine about the situation?" That's all. What are you doing to fix this issue you have?

See you have that wrong too. RedHat said they would keep up Xorg, then they saw how big an issue it was AFTER they ran off all the Xorg devs. So now, since RedHat doesn't want to maintain that codebase, they're running to Wayland because **surprise** they didn't have your back all along.

Doesn't matter. RedHat said they'd stand behind X and now they're leaving, because the people who will actually work on things are working on Wayland. RedHat can do whatever they like, their contracts are their contracts. If RedHat cannot deliver on their contracts, that's RedHat's issue. Some of the Wayland folks get paychecks from RedHat but not all. The ones that don't can tell RedHat to fuck off unless one of their devs want to do the work.

Again, that only affects the folks on Wayland that get paychecks from RedHat. The folks who were told to fuck off by RedHat back in 2006 don't have to listen to RedHat's customers if RedHat isn't actually doing the work. It's quite simple, there's a ton of folks who won't do the actual work. So they get to shut the fuck up and watch what the devs do and don't do. If they want to say something, vim is just a single command away. Get coding.

Okay. And I'll be happy to point out the whiny bitches who won't code jackshit and help, but want everyone to do their fucking bidding because of their entitlement. So cool, at least we know where each of us stand on the matter.

Did you?

Because it's just a POV between yelling and pointing out. You're like I gave an example, and I indicated that it's out of scope. Then you're like "of course it's out of scope" and went on about HOW DARE THEY MARK THAT OUT OF SCOPE!! But that's their choice to do. They get to mark it out of scope. That's how choice works. You can choose to stay with X, you can choose to fix the issues you brought up. But instead of doing any of that, you're just yelling about some MIA feature that you expect to be everywhere because you said it ought to be everywhere.

Like I'm really shocked you haven't stop for sixteen seconds to introspect on what it is that you are saying here. And what's even crazier is that it's some feature window placement that a lot of DEs are sorting out. No need for ImageJ to step in. The DEs are picking up the work. But for some reason, you just have to go on and on about an issue that's getting sorted out for FREE. But you just had to come and bitch about it. Because someone else's choice just didn't jive with you for some reason. HOW DARE THEY MAKE IT CLIENT SIDE!!!

Do you not honestly see that? Like I'm not denying that I'm yelling or berating or whatever. I'm not sugar coating it here. I know what I'm saying and I get you disagree. That's your choice. That's awesome to me. Because yeah, it sucks that Wayland puts it client side for some. But that is their choice. And window placement is being worked on in the DEs. So soon enough, the issue will no longer exist. That's how the game gets played, we take some steps back to progress on other steps. And then we come back and fix the other stuff. EGL direct memory and being able to pass through DE to the kernel's DRI is massively beneficial long run. It's one of the things that seriously held back X. It's the entire fight that happened with Xgl and AIGLX. And when AIGLX won, the people told the Xgl folk to go start their own project, they did, and guess what? It's slowly replacing Xorg.

There comes a point where it's for the Wayland folks that it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. No one on the Wayland can make you happy about the loss of window placement. DEs are working on it and eventually it'll be in the rearview. But if you miss Xorg that much, go help out. That's what is so killer about all of this. The people who would become the Wayland team was told in 2006, go start your own project, they did, and their project became popular. They didn't win overnight, they slowly had to work on their project, slowly trying to make it better each day. Xorg sat on it's rear end, RedHat, SuSE, IBM all the folks that told Xgl to go write their own project, they didn't do anything to keep Xorg. And now that they have this massive codebase they don't want to pay for to maintain, they're suddenly ready to jump ship. All these people who hate on Wayland forget that it was the Linux vendors that disappointed them. It was the big names that was supposed to keep Xorg going. It was the big names that told the soon to be Wayland devs to hit the road if they didn't like it. You all hate on Wayland for just doing what they were told. Go yell at RedHat for looking at the Xorg codebase and saying "NAH". Go yell at SuSE for telling the Xorg maintainers that their ideas for renovating Xorg weren't welcomed. You are so quick to be aghast at Wayland devs that you completely missed who really is at fault here for your loss of Xorg. But it's whatever, because OH MY GOD!! I cannot live without window placement and how dare anyone say otherwise. That's what your shit comes off as. So you're like "I'm just pointing out..." It's all Point of View friend. At least I'm admitting I'm yelling. But I swear it's a good cause, because YOU, yes you, can save Xorg. And man, that would be amazing. Not because Xorg is better than Wayland or flaws or whatever.... But because it means we have more CHOICE.

Wayland didn't do anything to you or to the Xorg supporters. The commercial folk were supposed to take over, they were the ones that were supposed to give you something in Xorg that would usher in the next era. And instead, they let Xorg rot. The Wayland maintainers were told to take their ball and go home, they did, and now everyone wants to come over to their house. What are the Wayland devs supposed to do? Say fuck it all and go back to the Xorg codebase that all the big commercial vendors wouldn't let them express their choice in? Those devs should be allowed to code whatever they want. Xorg represented vendor control that suppressed choice in favor of "THE ONE TRUE WAY". Nah, I don't support that. You can, but I don't think that's correct. You get to feel it is correct, I get to feel it isn't correct. That's how choice works.

Because all it seems, is that the Wayland devs SHOULD NOT have choice. How dare they work on their own project that got wildly popular!?

For window placement? Yeah, and there never will be. It's up to the DEs to figure that out with XDG or their own baked in thing. That's a choice the Wayland folks made. If that doesn't sit well with you, then don't move to Wayland. I don't understand why this is such a missive for you. Just don't move to Wayland. It's literally that simple. I mean KDE and Freedesktop are ironing it out so it'll be a moot issue soon enough, but I can not stress this enough. YOU DON'T HAVE TO MOVE TO WAYLAND!!

But you're like "they don't have this feature and they SHOULD NOT be able to choose to NOT HAVE that feature." Buddy you're going to be sorely disappointed in life is all I can say. Or "If they don't have XYZ feature, there's no way they can be popular!!" Buddy, that's like a million things. Shit, there's things in Windows that people massively don't like and guess what? Microsoft still selling Windows. I get it, this is a wildly popular feature for you and you can think that's the death knell for Wayland. Maybe, who really cares? The point being is the Wayland devs get to have CHOICE, just like you get to. They get to choose how to implement things.

So you can chalk it up as:

But THEY get to decide if it is in or out of scope. That's their choice. Who the fuck are you to dictate what they choose or not? They get to do that. When you're an Xorg dev or Wayland dev, you get to make calls too. I don't tell you how you ought to code. I just don't understand why you are so dead set on ripping choice away from people? You can not like it. That's fine. But if you REALLY didn't like it, you'd start coding or paying for Xorg. Which I also noted how you didn't say anything on how you support the community, but it's whatever, you keep on yelling about some missing feature you never coded or paid for in the first place.

So yeah. You're **pointing something out**. That's fine. But it's a choice the people who write Wayland made. They get to do that. And that can suck for you. And if it sucks hard enough for you, go fix Xorg. OR SHUT THE LITERAL FUCK UP. Gosh bless. If that's the death of Wayland desktop, so be it. The Wayland devs are just doing their thing. And shockingly, the people who told them they weren't welcomed are the ones flocking to them. So what does that say to you? So by all means, go fix Xorg. I welcome anything you want to do to *actually* fix the problem you speak of, that's outside of you coming here to whine about a missing feature because "holy crap new things suck!" And weirder it's a thing that DEs are actually already working on. But holy crap you got inconvenienced for... I mean I don't even know. It's not like XWayland isn't a thing. And you can still fallback on Xorg. So I just don't understand what your issue is? Everyone has giving you FOR FREE, solutions to all of this. What the hell have you done to pay any of that effort back?

It's just wild the level of audacity some of the folks here on Slashdot have to software they distinctly DO NOT HELP WITH.

For point (b). I'm berating you because your attributing all this false sense of doom in something that isn't any kind of doom. You literally can start coding for the Xorg project today. Nothing stops you. If you do or don't see your point (a) which is pretty accurate.

It's not fault. There's nothing to fault. It's a matter of choice. X11 has the window placement server side, Wayland has it client side. That's just a matter of choice in design. It's nobody's fault for who picks Coke and who picks Pepsi. It's a difference of choice, you should embrace that ability to pick and choose, not spurn it.

No. And it will never be. And Xorg will never be. And Linux will never be. It's foolish to look at this in any aspect that isn't we are forever on an uphill. In fact, the fact that we are always improving and one day Wayland will be tossed to the side and something else will come, that's the best part of OSS.

I care about your issue you seem to have here. You think X is dead, but it is only as dead as you make it. You can go code for Xorg, you can toss money to support Xorg, there is so much YOU can do to save X. I care about your perception that there seems to be nothing that you can do to stop/save/however you want to take it Xorg. You have 100% of the power to change the course. That's the entire point. All this stuff you bemoan, YOU literally can change all of that. That's what we're all here for in OSS. Either money wise, code wise, or however else people want to help out like testing.

And your inaction isn't a "fault" because it's just a choice. Everyone leaving Xorg, that was their choice, there's no fault, it's just choice. You think I'm yelling at you, what I'm trying to hammer into that nogging of yours there is that it's choice, it's freedom, it's the thing that make OSS the best thing out there. And you keep resigning that "Xorg is dying and they're taking my window placement away!!" Then make a choice to not let that happen. You have way more power in this aspect than you lead yourself to believe. That's the truly frustrating part of this. Literally a bunch of people got sick of systemd and they made their own distro. That can be you, but only if you elect it to be so. Why are you doubting yourself. If I'm yelling then take that yelling to be your sign to step up and let's see all the amazing things that you are absolutely able to do. I openly welcome anyone who wants to keep Xorg going. It'll be the best thing in the Universe to have both X11 and Wayland with us, plus all the other amazing things we will create going forward.

No because you paint yourself as so insignificant. You are not. If ImageJ and window placement is that important. You have so much inside you that you just won't admit to, to have those things you care about come true. It is your choice. That's what is so great about FOSS, we all get to put our little bit into all of this. That's the difference between US and all those other folks. You keep attributing this as some sort of "fault" or "flaw" or whatever. I'm telling you, that's exactly how it is supposed to work. It's the BEST part of all of this.