Budgeting for Layoffs? 186
The Waxed Yak asks: "After reading the Slashdot tech worker unionization story, I started wondering: What are other IT workers doing to prepare for potential layoffs?"
"We're all at risk of it, be it from actual layoffs or loss of employment for other reasons. My personal approach has been to live off about 1/3rd of my earnings and bank the rest, even though that means living in a hovel and driving an older car. Worst case scenario, I get to retire early.
I recently became completely self employed, which has made it all the more important to save. I understand many Slashdot readers have families to support, so they don't have the same option for savings that I currently enjoy. As I hope to have a family to support in the near future, I would be interested in tips or techniques to prepare for this situation. Judging by the posts in the unionization thread, many of you are dependent on a steady income to provide for their families. Hopefully this thread can provide some ideas for them as well."
Budget (Score:4, Interesting)
However, as such, that money is invested quite aggressively. I make stock purchases that tend to be risky. Of course, it has paid off even in the short run, with the 30% savings pushing near 45% annual gain (not including additional cash put in).
I'd rather live modestly for a long period of time than live well and spend a lot only to lose a job and have to risk moving back to a frugal lifestyle.
the best thing you can do right now. (Score:1, Interesting)
Give up (Score:2, Interesting)
W-4 employment, along with nearly all IT "skills" is obsolete. Companies and the people who manage them no longer have the huevos to employ people. They would much rather shirk their responsibilities to the communities they insist on shoving their products at. They want it all for free. They want free access to free markets with free labor and free equipment, free buildings, free services and free use of all the infrastructure necessary for them to stuff their own pockets at everyone else's expense. Oh, and if you're about to reply "taxes," save it. Businesses pay no taxes other than sales, which is actually paid by the customers.
When asked, they will screech "free markets" and "capitalism" and "being competitive in the global marketplace" which are all euphemisms for "ram tall dollars into my pockets and fuck everyone else." "Sell the seed corn," they say. "We don't need the farm after I'm done shoving cash into my pockets." Of course all the people who depend on that farm so they can eat? Well, fuck them. They should go retrain so the next asscrack lying piece of shit can have a chance to fire them.
We, as a society, allow corporations the LUXURY and PRIVILEGE of being able to operate as corporations in exchange for certain benefits to society, among them the creation of JOBS and CAREERS and the availability of products and services. Business, naturally, is trying to fuck society by keeping the quo and not exchanging the quid, precisely the same way they are unfairly refusing to honor the original deal in the copyright laws. The reason is because they want everything for free.
Business wants free labor. If they can't have that they want slaves. If they can't have that they'll just fire everyone and close the store/factory/whatever. Profits are more important than not fucking over their neighbors and customers. When people question their hiring decisions they screech "marketable skills" without ever actually explaining what those are. Yet another scam and another lie from a bunch of rat fuck lying cheat phone-flipping asscracks.
Best way to prepare for a layoff is not to buy into the scam of W-4 employment. It's a fucking scam.
Live now or live later? (Score:1, Interesting)
So, think what you invest in. Not only in terms of money, but life in general. Even if you don't have kids (that's a completely different story, which I will not go into), you can put money in a bank, or you can spend it to something you really value. If worst comes to worst, you still have the memories of sailing around the world, or climbing that mountain, or visiting that faraway place. No economic hardship can take that away.
Of course I don't recommend just burning your money away the fastest possible way, that would be stupid. But do not postpone living until you are too old to do it!
-H
"Be prepared." (Score:3, Interesting)
While one can't go wrong with having money in the bank (or a fund) earning interest, my family's philosophy is to reduce monetary need first then put money away. I recently downgraded my job from $45k/yr to ~$17k/yr, and our standard of living hasn't suffered.
One poster on this thread has mentioned she doesn't wish to "risk" being forced into a "frugal" lifestyle. Our take on things is live frugally by default and you live with much worry in the long run.
Over here, it's mandatory (Score:3, Interesting)
Usually, plenty of time to find a new job.
Retirement is taken care of, too, so that's, at least in theory, no issue either.
Still, I try to spend no more than 1/2 of my income. Being able to rely on the system is nice. It gives you a sense of security. Not relying on it gives you a feeling of independence, though.
prioritize-future proofing (Score:1, Interesting)
What will you still be needing in the future if you get nailed with a layoff (or loss of personal business) or the economy itself gets so bad that there are millions and millions of you in the same boat at the same time? (this could happen if the world switches to the petroeuro over th petrodollar, it could happen *fast*), or say the expanded war in the middle east starts to not be restricted to the middle east, stuff like that. Think worst case, plan for that, anything better keeps you in the gravy.
Well, what do you really NEED?
You need a home-check you got that, one you can afford-but is it paid off completely, so all you need to come up with is utilities and taxes? Priority. If it is paid off that is a HUGE worry off your shoulders if the income dries up.
What's nice to have every day? Why food is nifty! As in further down the thread, how extensive are your basic food stores? How long can you live without going to the store? Do you have an extensive working garden, or maybe an attached combo solar room/heater/greenhouse deal? I know my parents and grandparents made it through the depression because they had a big garden and chickens, and gramps hunted rabbits on my dad's side and on my mom's side they had a farm and her uncle was the local sheriff, so they got a few perks.... There was very little money, but they got by, primarily because their lives were so arranged that they didn't really need money. Folks in the city just stuck because they actually needed money for every aspect of their lives were hurt much worse overall..
You are on the computer, that means you use electricity. Electricity=ultimate geek good. We need it, gotta have it, too dang important to do without, correct? So...how much do your produce yourself, and is it paid off yet? Grid power you rent, means you will always need cash for it and never pay it off, with absolutely no price guarantees-other than most likely it will keep going up, and they will want that bill paid-and they don't care if you have been laid off or are unemployed otherwise. they get real antsy after the first month skipped payment.. They-don't-care. So, how big is your at least backup sized solar rig? Wouldn't it be nice to have a paid off minimum guaranteed supply of electricity to always count on, something that won't require a monthly bill? You don't have to go whole house unless you want to, but a one circuit deal-say enough to run the computer and some lights and the furnace blower- is affordable right now, and you can pay it completely off. Use the grid while you got it, the solar stuff is a nice one room UPS system you can always run your critical stuff on, and in a pinch, you can live with just that amount. useful for brownouts, blackouts, storms, etc as well. (I can almost guarantee once you have a smaller but practical sized rig you WILL be looking at whole house, it is *that neat* once it is up and running. Gives you this marvelous feeling of freedom to completely pay off one critical utility debt-and still have the utility!)
I'm a geek but live at the low end of the US economic scale. Some is voluntary, ssome was forced from an accident I had. Stuff happens.so, although I don't have your savings in dollars, I am past that on the "necessities" part, because I know I can't count on dollars always being available in any good sized pile. So, same as you, only older vehicles. No payments, just occassional repairs, and being a geek, I have tools and I know how to use them. I get new tools every month, always find a use for them. We grow a ton of our own food, I mean a ton, eat a lot fresh and can a lot.. We heat primarily with wood that I cut myself, but also use *some* propane, and that is purchased in the middle of summer when the prices are cheapest, and the prop guys will rent you a tank *cheap* as long as you buy some from them regularly. You can store a LOT for not that
Never take vacation (Score:3, Interesting)
That's hardly off topic (Score:3, Interesting)
Hell, I've got mucho karma, so I can afford to tell it like it is.
The whole reason people have to save up so much money is exactly because of what cubicledrone said.
And to the idiot who said all cubicledrone wants is a Government guaranteed job, that's horse shit. I'm a Reagan Republican, I believe a man should work not live on welfare. You Johnny come lately laissez-faire rabid dogs that call yourselves Republicans today, want to snatch every job known to man away from the hard working AMERICANS who made this world great and whose fathers fought and died to keep the free market alive in the face of the Communist threat.
The evil empire after WW-II was communism. Now the evil empire is rampant corporatism that has fraudulently masked itself as 'capitalism'. It's nothing more than robber baronism and the world owes me profits but I don't owe anyone anything-ism.
I'm sick and tired of you irresponsible "greed is good, social responsibility is communism" anti social hermits living nice and safe and comfortable in your mommy's basement posting these bogus Slashdot armchair cowboy stories about how you save 2/3 of your income to prepare for layoffs. That's hog wash and most of us readers know it.
What some readers do not know is if most of us saved the way the author of this story saves, there is an economic consequence to this that is very well demonstrated in economics and is a mathematical certainty. Saving a huge portion of your money means, typically, you're putting it in a bank. That means you're not buying anything. That means businesses are making less money because of lower sales. Your bank is investing that money overseas, no longer investing in the US, but even if they were investing in a US company, you aren't buying anything from that company so their sales are going down. When millions of Americans are saving for a rainy day, that means the company inevitably feels the loss in sales tangibly, and that means they will start closing stores and laying off. That is a mathematical certainty in economics. Again, what bank is going to take your savings and invest in them when their market is shrinking and consumers are saving and not buying?
Such large numbers of people saving for a rainy day will create a mathematically certain problem - businesses will close due to depressed consumer spending. (Consumer spending is over 60% of the economy's vitality, folks.)
This is not exactly like people stuffing money into their mattresses in the Great Depression, but the effect will still be the same: consumers save like mad, businesses close due to the inevitable collapse in spending, more jobs are lost, more people stop spending, and a death spiral occurs. A depression is then very hard to avoid.
What America needs is a lot of increased savings, but what we REALLY need the most is to grow our way out of this mess. We need more jobs, and higher paying jobs, and more stable job security for people with children to look after. No, you free market drones living in your mommy's basement, chasing the moving cheese is NOT good for a person with a family. It results in kids having to move away from their friends, and a gypsy lifestyle that no street grunt or child psychologist alike will ever say is a good thing. You may think job security is evil but that just tells me you do not have children whose constantly changing needs forces you to need a job that is always there so you can concentrate on being a good parent and not have to go to your do-it-yourself 'extreme skills upgrade 101' class every night. Ever wonder why all those punk assed rich kids out there are doing drugs and getting themselves into trouble (often at the expense of others)? It's because of their absent parents that are living the dream world you anti job stability people envision: working constantly and paying more attention to their job competitiveness than to their kids. Go ahead and argue with me about it - I just hope you don't run into one of these people's neglected brats and learn the hard way what I'm telling you now.
Re:Question or Comment??? (Score:3, Interesting)
I had a bit over 13 years of experience as a programmer/analyst when I was laid off in January 2002, mainly weird languages like Fortran and assembler and various macro languages, but also with some decent experience in C, Perl, Pascal, REXX, and a number of other more mainstream languages, experience with RDMSs like Sybase, as well as a LOT of medium- and large-scale applications design and high-pressure support experience.
I got nothing at all except one 8-month contract at the end of 2002 and a six-layer interview in Seattle in the spring of 2003 until I hit the jackpot and got a pair of out-of-town job offers at the same time in the fall of 2004.
I think I had a grand total of five (5) interviews in total during that time, and three of those were for positions outside the Minneapolis area.
I think one of the main reasons I had such a hard time was the fact that I was laid off a few months after 300-400 or so other experienced folks were laid off from my ex-employer (Northwest Airlines), so the marketplace was chock full of experienced UNIX and IBM mainframe people (the two most likely places for me to find employment) well before I found out that I was also in a position to have to find work.
I thought I had dodged the axe already by surviving the large initial wave of layoffs, but I was wrong.
A second reason was the fact that people tended to focus on the Fortran on my resume, so I ended up removing that and only stressing the UNIX-related things I had done and worked with when applying for such positions. It didn't do me any good.
A third reason was the fact that, because it was very much an employer's market in the Twin Cities at that point in time (and it still is), companies seemed to be looking for very VERY specific things.
I rarely got interviews as a programmer because companies wanted people with not only TECHNICAL skills but also specific INDUSTRY experience with medical products, or with insurance-specific EDIFACT formats, or with some specific image format, or even with company-specific internal products in several cases, and that ended up weeking me out early (in many cases I called HR to try to obtain some info about why I couldn't get an interview, and I heard all kinds of things along those lines).
I was also told on several occasions that I was overqualified for a programming position or a PC tech support position -- that they were looking for someone with 3-5 years of experience, and that they felt my 13 years made me too expensive (hey, a pay cut would have been FINE with me!), or made me a risk to leave later.
Etc.
As I said in another thread, I still know a few folks who are bouncing from contract to contract, and it's been almost five years now for those people. They *still* don't have a permanent (non contract) position.
You've apparently had it easy. My first layoff was back in 1993, and that wasn't so bad. Took me around ten months to find work that time. This last one was a LOT rougher. I didn't expect to have to look for almost three years, either. It's a good thing I had taken the time to prepare myself financially beforehand. If I had been completely unprepared, we'd be a lot worse off today...
Keep your skills up-to-date (Score:3, Interesting)
It also doesn't hurt to have a hobby that you can turn into a job. An old manager of mine used to do woodworking as a hobby. When he got laid off from a 200k/year job, he decided to retire from tech and be a professional woodworker. Needless to say, he's quite happy.