U.S. to Gain Access to EU Retained Data 323
shenanigans writes "After the EU recently ratified controversial data retention laws for ISPs and other telecommunication companies, it now looks like the US government will get full access to the data. From the article: 'US authorities can get access to EU citizens' data on phone calls, sms and emails, giving a recent EU data-retention law much wider-reaching consequences than first expected'. Apparently, the US has been calling members of the EU to 'ensure that the data collected [...] be accessible to them'."
Oh, I get it... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm starting to think I should just set up a web page and post my photograph, fingerprints, blood type, DNA records, phone conversations, credit-card, passport, travel history, social-security numbers, and real-time GPS coordinates. It would save alot of hassle and expense.
Re:Oh, I get it... (Score:4, Interesting)
Bread and circuses have led us to total apathy. I asked an acquantance of mine if he was worried about it. He responded: "Are they tracking cell phones?"
Secrecy is no longer important. Sure, people will make noise about it. Maybe a tenth of them will be sincere enough to really rally people against this prison that is building up around us.
we need a stronger more democratic EU (Score:5, Interesting)
I know that a lot of people will disagree, but I think this is actually an argument in favor of a strong EU, rather than the other way around. If EU citizens got their act together and created more grass roots pressure groups to put pressure on Brussels, it would be easier to keep a united europe from being arm twisted by the US rather than so many small countries. Just remember how much respect the US has had for Danish wishes to keep Greenland a nuclear free zone...Or how much heed was paid to Blair's request to have steel import quotas not be applied to the UK in spite of the fact that he went out on a limb for them engaging his country in an illegal invasion on what were clearly false pretenses. Remember how Blair wanted token US participation in the climate change conference so as not to appear to come home empty handed? How much deference did he win on that one?
The fact is that to have your voice heard, you need to be an effective counterweight, and pack some clout. This doesn't mean that everything has to be turned into a childish pissing-contest, the way it so often is, but that you need to have enough clout to have your wishes taken into account in bilateral relations
It is EU citizens' responsibility to have this sort of policy reverted at the EU level, not the US's (just as it is US citizens who have to deal with the NSA's very liberal interpretation of wiretap laws...), but once a decision has been taken, the EU has more of a chance of having it be respected that a country with some 5 million inhabitants on its own, just like washington is taken more seriously at the international level than, say, Iowa would on its own.
EU-wide NGO's and parties are still in their infancy. I really hope they get their act together sooner rather than later, people too often forget that reverting any democratic deficit in the institutions has a lot to do with effectively using the conduits available. Democracy is a process you can't expect to get anything out of if you're not willing to put something into it.
Re:I think that we (Europeans) (Score:4, Interesting)
Why is it that dumb people... (Score:5, Interesting)
Come on, they are terrorists, they are dumb, right? The only reason why they attack anybody is because they are evil, right? Plluuuueeeaaasssee.
I'd be surprised if with all this data retention and spying (both US and EU) there will be single terrorist caught *before* the act.
Guess how many terrorists have been caught by the London camera network - which was installed to track down terrorists. If you guessed "zero" you'd 100% correct. Instead that very camera network is now used to keep track of every vehicle that enters the inner city on London.
Somehow through the EU politicians get away with things that would be doomed to fail in any memberstate - well, maybe except Great Britain.
I wish we would gather the same kind of energy to fight poverty, and other more pressing social issues.
Jeeeeezzz!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
is this so big? (Score:5, Interesting)
Then I remembered that I use web based email from a well known search engine who are based in the US. Isn't my data already within US jurisdiction?
(yes, I know TFA is refering to EU-ISP-owned data, but I think it's less of a sudden move than many realise)
Re:Backwards (Score:2, Interesting)
If only everybody could make that distinction - too many are believing that the gov't has the nations best interests at heart. Just look at obvious manipulations like the "USA PATRIOT Act". Give something a name that people will think is a good thing, and you're all clear. Some people really believe that to disagree with the gov't is unpatriotic.
The real Patriots are stocking up on ammunition right now.
Re:Were I European... (Score:3, Interesting)
Norway is not a member, so we pay a fee that is larger than Germany to the EU just to get access to their markets. Norway has 4 640 200 citizens, Germany got 83 251 851. In return we must also make all these directives a part of Norwegian law to ensure Norwegian corporations compete on equal terms and do not gain any advantage.
Norway can afford it, but most nations in Europe can not. They just bend over and hope to get accepted.
Not sure we have it any better outside and we have to follow all the madness they decide yet we have no way to influence the decisions of the EU.
I've stayed pro-US all my life, but the developments the past 5 years has made me even more skeptical to the US than the EU. I see both as a big threat to privacy.
The world is pretty much screwed the way I see it. I fear that there is no return.
Re:Sorry (Score:5, Interesting)
(I'm waiting for the FBI raids website known to harbour militant and anti-US sentiments headline tomorrow. This is my attempt to bring slashdot down, FYI)
How is this possible under EU law? (Score:4, Interesting)
So is the EU simply ignoring the law this time?
Re:Were I European... (Score:3, Interesting)
The E.U. is worse in terms of democracy, because a lot of its government is done not by people elected by the demos, but by people nominated by national governments and without direct accountability to the people they govern. This is one of the reasons that I want out.
Re:Well, it's only fair. (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny... you never hear about multi-billion dollar emergency appropriations to feed our starving children. Yet we get them on a fairly regular basis to fund this insane war in Iraq. I know you're there taking bullets and IED's, but you shouldn't even be there.
As for ballooning debt, it's been happening quite badly under this administration. Partly because of huge tax-cuts for people and corporations who can afford to live without them, huge expenditures on an unnecessary war, and economic policies that have lead to a weakening of the dollar on the international markets. It's hardly because of social welfare programs.
Your in some delusion to think terrorism is impossible or improbable. It's inevitable without the very measures we have employed since September 12th that you are fighting so hard to undo.
No. I'm not saying terrorism is impossible or improbable. I'm saying that I'm willing to face that threat without cowering in fear or by giving up all my essential liberties. I THOUGHT that was what America stood for when I joined the Army. But apparently that was just a myth.
Finally, there's a huge difference between conducting intelligence operations against an enemy on the battlefield (I was a 98G/Arabic) and spying on every American citizen. I'd hope that someone like you, who's sworn an oath to defend the constitution would understand that. It makes me even sadder that you don't.
Give me liberty or give me death, but don't try to convince me to cower in of Osama.
Exactly as predicted (Score:2, Interesting)
What is a suprise is that the citizens (and subjects) of EU countries don't say a word about it, or not enough to make their elected representatives worry they'll lose their place a trough if they don't change things.
Re:Well, it's only fair. (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps that's the difference - once the worst has happened, you are no longer trying to maintain security.