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The Almighty Buck

PearPC Trying to Sue CherryOS 690

Varg Vikernes writes "PearPC developers are taking in donations to sue Maui X-Stream, the developers of the MAC emulator software CherryOS. There have been allegations that CherryOS is nothing more than PearPC code, which is open-source, but with a GUI attached to it. One of the PearPC developers tried to get in contact with someone from Maui X-Stream, but eventually were told to "speak with an Attorney" about the allegations. "
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PearPC Trying to Sue CherryOS

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  • GPL test. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by torpor ( 458 ) <ibisum@ g m a i l . c om> on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @12:34PM (#12089409) Homepage Journal
    yeah, this is gonna be a test of the GPL. EFF, step forward. epic battle of intellectual property the way we define it, against the way they define it. americans, put away your guns.

    coders, continue prepping releases. the point of open source is that things never get stale. if cherryOS is a ripoff today, ain't nothin' stoppin' PearOS from doing another point release in upgrade, and surfing their stupid PR blunder into fame...
  • by brewer13210 ( 821462 ) on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @12:49PM (#12089612) Homepage
    So, it would be okay for me to steal a Mercedes as long as I give it away afterwards?
  • by rogabean ( 741411 ) on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @12:50PM (#12089621)
    PearPC has been a very big deal to me for a long time. What Arben and MauiX are doing is wrong. Funny thing is they had a chance to step to the plate. A commercial app based off PearPC was never out of the question. They just chose to go about it the wrong way. The community backing PearPC would have (most anyway) supported someone packaging a commercial app derived from PearPC as long as they followed the GPL it was released under. Instead this company has chosen to lie and attempt to hide the facts. It's a fight they can't win, but they are for whatever reason determined to do so.

    So if you are a PearPC supporter... I would suggest lending any help you can...

    and if not... then as a supporter of the GPL any help you can is needed as well.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:00PM (#12089751)

    They stole the PearPC developers' code

    No they didn't. They committed copyright infringement and they are plagiarists. They are not thieves.

  • Silly (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Deliveranc3 ( 629997 ) <deliverance&level4,org> on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:06PM (#12089839) Journal
    Don't sue them wait till they make money THEN SUE THEM!

    Since it's a blatant copy you should be able to get 100% of profits and force them to take it off the market.

    Though Evil I don't understand why they should be taking donations from nice stupid people, rather than taking the money from people who buy open source software, questionably nice stupid people.

    I mean aren't lawsuits supposed to MAKE MONEY?

    Let people invest in the lawsuit :P Percentage or returns based on percentage of lawyer fees, and tell that guy to GO FOR THE THROAT!
  • Re:In all respect (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JimDabell ( 42870 ) on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:07PM (#12089840) Homepage

    He tries to revoke the license just for them retroactively.

    No he isn't doing that. The copying rights for PearPC that the CherryOS people obtained through the GPL license were terminated under section 4 of the GPL:

    4. You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program except as expressly provided under this License. Any attempt otherwise to copy, modify, sublicense or distribute the Program is void, and will automatically terminate your rights under this License. However, parties who have received copies, or rights, from you under this License will not have their licenses terminated so long as such parties remain in full compliance.

    This came up once before when Stallman told everybody that the KDE developers needed to ask forgiveness in order to use GPLed code (after Trolltech GPLed Qt in an attempt to solve the licensing issue). The KDE developers' response was "no, we just need to download another copy to get a new license". The termination of rights is clearly valid, but whether you can obtain new ones simply by downloading the GPLed software again or not is probably a grey area that would need to be addressed by a court.

  • OSS PIRACY! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:07PM (#12089841)
    One thing threatening Open Source today--piracy.

    As we have already seen [slashdot.org], the GPL is under attack from evil forces known as "pirates." These shadowy folk silently steal source code and violate the GPL, infringing on the rights of GPL authors. They are nothing more than thieves getting a free ride off the work of others, and I for one am disgusted at the idea of it. As you can see in the previous article, clearly Slashdot is also sickened by the idea of copyright infringement and piracy.

    Some have even called for a lawsuit against these pirate thieves. Suing individual infringers has always been a position that Slashdot and its readership has supported, so it's only fair that the original GPL authors protect their rights and safeguard their material from being stolen in the future. I think we should all support any lawsuits against these infringers to protect the rights of GPL authors everywhere.

    I appluad Slashdot and its readers for always taking a proactive stance against piracy and copyright infringement in general, and I would like to join the cause against this "source code theft." Piracy is a major threat facing OSS today.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:16PM (#12089969)

    The money-making issue is a red herring. It's irrelevant.

    That is your opinion. If somebody judges it to be relevant, then there is no hypocrisy in judging the two actions differently.

  • by WhiteWolf666 ( 145211 ) <sherwin&amiran,us> on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:16PM (#12089985) Homepage Journal
    We got similar advise once. One of our supposed 'distribution partners' tried to license a product of ours, under their own name.

    They walked away from the deal, started selling a different product under that name, but claimed our performance numbers (this was a fire supression chemical), and even quoted our test results, for a totally dissimilar product!

    One of our legal staff advised us, "It's going to be a terrible pain to sue them. Rather, continue selling your products, use the same marketing literature, and 'copy-cat' them right back. Force them to sue you, if they dare."

    The PearPC community should do this to CherryOS. Create a gui, that matches CherryOS exactly.

    Release it as CherryOS Plus. Even use the same name. If they have the balls to take you to court, lots of interesting things will have to be revealed in discovery.

    It'll cost you the same amount in lawyer fees, but it'll cost them much more. (Easier to defend, especially in a GPL question, where discovery will reveal the code).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:17PM (#12089993)
    Since you *still* don't seem to get the point (and still reply with the same old thing you've already said a hundred times before), let me reiterate:

    You are so disingenuous it isn't even funny. Every time you trot out this chimera it makes you look like and confirms you as the idiot you are.

    The point that you and your ilk miss is that if there were no IP laws then the GPL is NO LONGER NECESSARY. Let me emphasize that point: THE GPL IS ONLY NECESSARY IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE OF COPYRIGHT LAW THAT WE HAVE NOW.

    Also, since you seem to be mentally challenged when it comes to this concept, let me also emphasize: PEOPLE WHO WANT THE GPL TO BE RESPECTED GENERALLY RESPECT COPYRIGHT LAW. That's right--there is no hypocrisy, other than in the straw man that you continually trot out to "prove" your nonsensical point.

    Oh, and by the way, if you hate the GPL so much, just realize this--if you don't like the GPL, you don't have to accept it and then YOU ARE BOUND BY REGULAR COPYRIGHT LAWS. That's right: THE GPL GIVES YOU MORE RIGHTS THAN YOU HAVE UNDER COPYRIGHT LAW. Don't like it? Don't use it.
  • by fracai ( 796392 ) on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:21PM (#12090031)
    straight from the horses mouth [cherryos.com]
    the link even includes reference to the software used for the comparison.

    The test was conducted using UltraCompare, a standard tool for application comparison. The test used CherryOS 1.2 and PPC 0.4 Pre as the basis for comparison. The UltraCompare test works by running through every possible process of the application. The results show the matching number of bytes and gives a consensus on whether the core architectures of the two products are the Same, Similiar or Different. As you will see from the results below, CherryOS and PearPC are radically different products.

    apparently running "diff pearPC.exe cherryOS.exe" is all you need to do.
    ironically, the screenshot included on the page appears to me to be more evidence that they include similarities. something that, in the binary, is even more damning.

    and no, the UltraCompare site shows no evidence that it can "[run] through every process of the application"
  • by dan_bethe ( 134253 ) <slashdot@smu c k o l a.org> on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @01:56PM (#12090454)
    The PearPC developers should have inserted a 'stolen from PearPC' [folklore.org] logo into one of their virtual ROMs! ;-)
  • Re:Remember folks! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bnenning ( 58349 ) on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @02:05PM (#12090584)
    If there were no copyright, then what CherryOS is doing to PearPC would be perfectly fine.

    Even ignoring copyright, by claiming their product isn't based on PearPC they are committing fraud.
  • Re:In all respect (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gnuadam ( 612852 ) on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @02:14PM (#12090723) Journal

    Trolling? Can't tell.

    How is a company that decides to release a commercial product that obviously just lifts wholesale the work of a GPLed project, then makes dramatically exaggerated claims about the performance of their "product", and finally when confronted with their misdeeds with overwhelming evidence proclaims their innocence and basically says "get lost" to the rightful owners of the code in question ... how is any of that good for the users?

    I think users ultimatly win if the pearPC people can prevent these unethical hucksters from ever "releasing a product" again.

    But that's just me.

  • Re:License agreement (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Sparr0 ( 451780 ) <sparr0@gmail.com> on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @02:19PM (#12090768) Homepage Journal
    The downfall of EULAs is that the other party never verifies if you agreed to their terms. If you hand me a contract and I change it (like adding more vacation days to my employment contract) then give it back to you, common sense dictates that you look at the changes I made and decide whether or not you agree to them before you start doing business with me. With the majority of EULAs you can change whatever you want, "sign" (electronic signature in the form of an Accept button) the amended version, and the other party never bothers to look at it. If Microsoft or Sony ever took a gander at the agreements I have taken part in with them they would most likely never agree. But the world may never know, since they never look.
  • by willfe ( 6537 ) <willfe@gmail.com> on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @02:43PM (#12091058) Homepage

    The most striking piece of this article, for me, was the comment that when a PearOS developer tried to contact someone at the offending company's offices, they were just dismissed summarily with a "go talk to an attorney" response.

    In recent months I have dealt with someone who gave me two similar responses (not related to the GPL, but a bounced check). First he asked "well, since you've got my address, why don't you just come out here and arrest me?" Next in an online conversation he suggested I take his firm "I'll never honor that check" answer to the district attorney. Then, when he got the certified letter from me trying to resolve the problem without involving a court, he messaged me online inviting me to file the suit, even offering to give me a list of lawyers to consult.

    I'm amazed people still bluff like this -- he says "go on, then, sue me!" ... it's a no brainer to respond "um, okay, here's the suit" (I filed suit March 1, and take him to small claims April 11).

    This CherryOS thing is clear-cut. It's as much a no-brainer as a bounced check small claims case is. The people working at this company have to know this. There's no conceivable way every person at that company (particularly the legal team, if it exists :) could honestly believe they have a unique, new product. There's no conceivable way this guy I'm suing can "win" the case -- a bounced check is actionable by itself regardless of circumstance (not that there are any).

    There are only three possibilities in both these instances: 1) they're hoping we won't call their bluffs by actually filing suit, 2) they actually honestly think some magic loophole will save them, or 3) they really are as stupid as they seem.

    Actually, I suppose there's a fourth option: they never plan to pay a judgment when they lose. It's easy for me; sell the judgment to a collection agency for 70% of its value, move on (punitive damages will still make it worth the trouble and the cut). For PearOS, it might be harder. If they actually win a judgment, there could be an appeal process (probably will be), and by the time that's over with, even when PearOS emerges triumphant, there won't be money left in the defendant company (or it'll just file for bankruptcy) to take. Hurrah, justice is served, or something.

    I don't really know how to pick the most likely outcome here except, I suppose, to just wait and see.

  • Re:Remember folks! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by killjoe ( 766577 ) on Wednesday March 30, 2005 @11:41PM (#12096880)
    I don't see why that's relevant. Furthermore I don't see why the law has to be constructed so that any one activity must be profitable enough to make a living. If your goal is to provide living wages for people why just concentrate on the creative class? Why not make it so that all activites are controlled by artificial monopolies so that everybody can make a living doing it.

    Anyway inability to make a living at it hasn't stopped great art. Picasso died a poor man and so did thousands of other great artists and musicians. Sure britney spears is rich but charlie parker died destitute. Maybe something wrong with this picture.

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