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Karen Finney Is A Sad Little Tool

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  • The host was trying to make a big stink over Alger Hiss [wikipedia.org], who might or might not have been a communist. More so, the host insists not only that Hiss was a communist but that he "infiltrated the government". The former claim is dubious for sure, and the latter is only credible if you play fast and loose with the very meaning of infiltrating the government. Hiss never was elected to any role in the government, nor did he ever have a role in the creation or enforcement of laws. If McCarthyism - which is wha
    • It's a simple yes/no. If you think the question illegitimate, you say "no". You can cite Wikipedia as a source, but I don't think it reliable on questions such as this. I'd cite Stan Evans [amazon.com], but you can question his bias just as readily.
      Do I think that our government was/is rife with Commies?
      I don't know: was Walter Duranty [wikipedia.org] a Commie sympathizer [youtube.com]?
      • It's a simple yes/no. If you think the question illegitimate, you say "no".

        I probably would have been willing to go out on a limb and tell the host that I was not aware of any communist infiltration of the US government, but it was not my question to answer.

        You can cite Wikipedia as a source, but I don't think it reliable on questions such as this.

        I know a lot of people claim that wikipedia is heavily biased one way. However the question is about whether or not communists infiltrated the government and to me for that to have happened there would have needed to have been communists in relevant roles in the government. I have yet to hear of a lawmaker at the federal le

        • I wrote the question so as to leave room for discussion.
          That there was a multi-decade struggle between NATO countries and the Communist Block called the "Cold War" is not in dispute.
          That infiltrating opposing governments during a struggle occurs is also not in dispute.
          Where there seems to be some contention is the degree to which infiltration of our government was successful.
          I submit that there is substantial denial about the extent. Whether Karen Finney is in denial due to ignorance (I'll give that a '
          • If I may turn around the situation to clarify where I see a problem in the meaning of infiltration, do you feel that the current US government has been infiltrated by Tea Party operatives? From my vantage point, the Tea Party has easily infiltrated the US government to a more meaningful extent than the communists - be they American Communists or otherwise - ever did. The definition of infiltrate that needs to be applied in order to make an argument for communists having infiltrated the US federal governme
            • Well, that's a cogent argument, and, if we set aside the principles inherent in our founding documents, it's even reasonable.
              Yet I'd contend that any grouping of people in any category you can name can be judged by their fidelity to those founding documents.
              The notion that all groups are morally equivalent, and thus whoever does the best job of gaining and holding power wins,
              is not one with which I'm comfortable. Yet that's been the course of the last 100 years.
              You can draw distinctions between domestic
            • by Arker (91948)

              "From my vantage point, the Tea Party has easily infiltrated the US government to a more meaningful extent than the communists"

              From my point of view the exact opposite - it is the Tea Party which has been infiltrated, very early and very heavily (with plenty of media support.)

              In fact I am having a hard time thinking of anyone associated with the Tea Party by the media that actually had anything to do with it at all.

    • Alger Hiss' story may be debatable but she just wasnt prepared to debate it. She doesnt appear to even know who Alger Hiss is. And she's supposed to be an expert, she speaks with (false?) authority.

      It is simply historically illiterate to claim that the US government was not infiltrated with communists. Whether or not Hiss personally was involved the USSR clearly had multiple sources reporting to them inside the State department going back to the 30s when Hiss worked there. Chambers wasnt a great witness and

      • It is simply historically illiterate to claim that the US government was not infiltrated with communists.

        That depends on how you define infiltrated. If you set the bar as low as to say that there were people working for government officials who had communist sympathies, then sure. But another way to view infiltrate is that it implies the people who were communists (or communist sympathizers) had some influence in the direction of the government. If you take the latter view then the only way you could claim the government to have been infiltrated by communists would be if there were elected officials who h

        • by Arker (91948)

          "That depends on how you define infiltrated. If you set the bar as low as to say that there were people working for government officials who had communist sympathies, then sure"

          Infiltrate: to enter or become established in gradually or unobtrusively usually for subversive purposes

          You seem to be reversing the meanings of the words from how they are normally used. Infiltration is simply getting people into position. Depending on how it's done it may not be illegal at all. Espionage is one of the more common

          • by PopeRatzo (965947)

            Infiltrate: to enter or become established in gradually or unobtrusively usually for subversive purposes

            That word. "Subversive". It's a poor choice. Becoming established gradually or unobtrusively is how a lot of social movements work. Someone could say that the efforts of the Christian or Jewish lobbies in Washington are working "gradually or unobtrusively" to influence things, but you wouldn't call them "subversives".

            A subversive is anyone you disagree with, apparently, and that simply does not comp

            • by Arker (91948)

              "That word. "Subversive". It's a poor choice."

              I was merely quoting from a dictionary.

              And subversive can have either positive or negative connotations btw. All depends on what you are trying to subvert (and the way you go about it.)

              "Someone could say that the efforts of the Christian or Jewish lobbies in Washington are working "gradually or unobtrusively" to influence things, but you wouldn't call them "subversives"."

              How do you know I wouldnt?

              "As far as spying...You could easily say that Jonathan Pollard, or

        • We had a large number of sources inside the USSR that reported back to us, does that mean we infiltrated the USSR government? I would argue that no we did not.

          Well, we're operating from widely disparate definitions, then.
          I can buy some amount of moral equivalence, governments being what they are, and doing what they do.
          Case in point: Radio Free Europe [wikipedia.org]. Granted, this is a very soft electromagnetic example, but if you think that was the extent of our efforts, well, fine. Think away, sir.

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