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Journal smittyoneeach's Journal: " There is more to life than DNA alone. " 43

Journal by smittyoneeach
It's not clear who ever claimed that DNA alone is the sum of life.

I contended that life is initialized when the DNA is complete, i.e. conception.

In software terms, this somewhat similar to a constructor function for a class.

There is absolutely no subsequent, post-DNA-complete moment when one can be said to transition from "not-life" to "life".

THAT is my argument.

The fact that, post the initial cell division, cells continue to divide, virii contaminate the DNA, neurons grow and memories form, is completely true.

I would like to thank all of the strawman interlocutors for manning the straw and slaying copious tangential arguments that I never proffered.
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" There is more to life than DNA alone. " More

" There is more to life than DNA alone. "

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  • Your claim was that the gender in our chromosomes is a set-in-stone fact of life and that there is no possibility of anything else. I laid out before you both the fact that transgendered people have existed for thousands of years, and that there is a whole lot more to gene expression than just DNA sequence. You rejected both of those without concern for the fact that your rejection of them is based on your lack of understanding of both.
    • I could also reject gravity, but I don't think gravity cares two figs for my sophistries.
      • That is not even remotely close to the same. There is an abundance of evidence that the DNA you are born with does not alone dictate the full course of your life; you are insisting that it does. There is a whole lot more to gene expression than just the code itself; if you took a semester of molecular biology you would know that. We know that identical twins - who are born with the same genomes - are not identical people living identical lives.

        The only thing I am rejecting is your fact-free arguments

        • There is an abundance of evidence that the DNA you are born with does not alone dictate the full course of your life; you are insisting that it does.

          Did
          You
          Even
          Read
          My
          Post?

          AHEM:

          The fact that, post the initial cell division, cells continue to divide, virii contaminate the DNA, neurons grow and memories form, is completely true.

          You deserve some kind of Richard Cranium Award.

          • Did You Even Read My Post?

            That is a rich accusation from someone who - to be generous - is cherry picking their way through my comments and replying only to the parts they can most casually discard.

            The fact that, post the initial cell division, cells continue to divide, virii contaminate the DNA, neurons grow and memories form, is completely true.

            This is still an incomplete picture of how life goes. More so, you insist that someone born as one gender must never be allowed to consider themselves to be anything else. That's the whole point here, you are insisting on oppressing a certain population within our country. You are insisting that you know better how they ought to live

            • This is still an incomplete picture of how life goes.

              I know, right? My purpose was to argue that the instantiation of life is at conception.

              That's the whole point here, you are insisting on oppressing a certain population within our country.

              Still oppressing the same amount of people as ever, zero (0).

              You are insisting that you know better how they ought to live their own lives than they themselves do.

              Wut? I know that absolute Truth exists, and freely confess to as much challenge at following that Truth as every other beating heart.

              You are falsely claiming that their lives are some sort of affront to biology, and you are wholly wrong on that.

              But are you hijacking my point stridently enough? You could, for example, jack up your absurdity factor, with no effect on the intellectual honesty vacuum, by asserting that I claim anyone disagreeing with me is a Reptilizoid alie

              • This is still an incomplete picture of how life goes.

                I know, right? My purpose was to argue that the instantiation of life is at conception.

                You're waving that flag in so many different directions that it is no longer possible to tell what you think it represents.

                That's the whole point here, you are insisting on oppressing a certain population within our country.

                Still oppressing the same amount of people as ever, zero (0).

                Only true if you are making a claim of transgendered people not being people at all. They are seeking help and you are telling them they cannot have help.

                You are insisting that you know better how they ought to live their own lives than they themselves do.

                Wut? I know that absolute Truth exists, and freely confess to as much challenge at following that Truth as every other beating heart.

                Yet you are telling them that their own quest for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not important, and that they need to live their lives the way you intend for them to.

                You are falsely claiming that their lives are some sort of affront to biology, and you are wholly wrong on that.

                hijacking

                A full 17 days ago you offered up a thesis on your [slashdot.org]

                • My purpose was to argue that the instantiation of life is at conception.

                  You're waving that flag in so many different directions that it is no longer possible to tell what you think it represents.

                  What if--and I realize this is a stretch--the sentence means precisely its face value?

                  Still oppressing the same amount of people as ever, zero (0).

                  Only true if you are making a claim of transgendered people not being people at all.

                  Are there any things you could do to troll more? None. None more troll. I genuinely appreciate that I am unlikely to encounter anyone more capable of building the most fantastic flights of WTF out of any utterance.

                  Yet you are telling them that their own quest for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not important, and that they need to live their lives the way you intend for them to.

                  One conveys the simple existential truth, and prays that it bear fruit. To hide the truth, or twist it into falsehood as "Your Team" does, would be as diabolical as "Your Team's" efforts.

                  Birth with an immutable gender

                  Which is at best a gross oversimplification of reality. Gender is indeed a social construct.

                  "Your Team" can lie 24x7x

                  • Still oppressing the same amount of people as ever, zero (0).

                    Only true if you are making a claim of transgendered people not being people at all.

                    Are there any things you could do to troll more?

                    Your conclusion of "troll" for that comment is puzzling. I am absolutely, positively, not trolling you. You are telling transgendered people that they need to live the life that you want them to live, rather than the life they identify as their own. How is that not oppressing them?

                    Yet you are telling them that their own quest for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not important, and that they need to live their lives the way you intend for them to.

                    One conveys the simple existential truth, and prays that it bear fruit.

                    The simple existential truth here is that you are advocating for the oppression of people who you disagree with. You don't want them to seek any kind of therapy other than that which oppresses them. You want them to see the

                    • You are telling transgendered people that they need to live the life that you want them to live, rather than the life they identify as their own. How is that not oppressing them?

                      I have literally told no one anything but the simple biological truth. Their freewill choice to scuttle the truth and do what they gotta do is SEP: Someone Else's Problem. Possibly you feel some need to enthrone me in some faux dictatorial position as part of a strawman argument, or a troll, or general madness. Your motives are as inscrutable as those incapable of grasping that Form Follow Function.

                      you are advocating for the oppression of people who you disagree with.

                      False; false, a thousand "falses", and again: wrong. I haven't oppressed, advocated oppression, or supported o

                    • You are telling transgendered people that they need to live the life that you want them to live, rather than the life they identify as their own. How is that not oppressing them?

                      I have literally told no one anything but the simple biological truth.

                      I've already pointed out how that is a lie. Neither biology nor chemistry are on your side with that argument.

                      Their freewill choice to scuttle the truth

                      Another lie from you.

                      and do what they gotta do is SEP: Someone Else's Problem

                      Yet you are telling them they can't do what "they gotta do". You're telling them very specifically how to live their lives.

                      False; false, a thousand "falses", and again: wrong. I haven't oppressed, advocated oppression, or supported oppressor

                      Except you have very much advocated for oppression. Lying about it won't change the fact that you are endorsing oppression.

                      If you took even a single semester of molecular biology you would understand what you are missing here.

                      I have take a biochemistry course,

                      Biochemistry and molecular biology are not the same thing. They are similar in many ways but biochem skews towards proteins w

                    • We seem to be in agreement that the other side is peddling falsehoods.

                      Time will judge, and not in "Your Team's" favor, I expect.

                      and do what they gotta do is SEP: Someone Else's Problem

                      Yet you are telling them they can't do what "they gotta do". You're telling them very specifically how to live their lives.

                      You're telling me that I'm telling specific people specifically how to live their lives, and that is simply not occurring, irrespective of your specious insistence.

                      I hold a PhD in biochemistry and molecular biology. I know the field very, very, well. When I tell you that you're wrong on matters of molecular biology it's not because your argument is ridiculous, it's because you're factually wrong.

                      Having more degrees than a thermometer does not translate into wisdom. Show me a repeatable experiment where you move from the Periodic Table of Elements to Biochemistry, and I will be impressed.

                      Second the groomer conspiracy is just that - another silly conspiracy.

                      Labeling anything refut

                    • Yet you are telling them they can't do what "they gotta do". You're telling them very specifically how to live their lives.

                      You're telling me that I'm telling specific people specifically how to live their lives, and that is simply not occurring, irrespective of your specious insistence.

                      Your own words refute that statement completely. You have stated multiple times that you don't want certain treatments available to certain people. In so doing you are telling people how to live their lives. You are even saying that adults cannot be allowed to make certain treatments available to their children; that is also a case of you telling people how to live their lives.

                      I hold a PhD in biochemistry and molecular biology. I know the field very, very, well. When I tell you that you're wrong on matters of molecular biology it's not because your argument is ridiculous, it's because you're factually wrong.

                      Show me a repeatable experiment where you move from the Periodic Table of Elements to Biochemistry, and I will be impressed.

                      That statement is so vague that I don't know where to begin. Are you looking for biochemistry using elements well beyond C,H,O

                    • You have stated multiple times that you don't want certain treatments available to certain people. In so doing you are telling people how to live their lives. You are even saying that adults cannot be allowed to make certain treatments available to their children; that is also a case of you telling people how to live their lives.

                      It is a sick and degenerate age where the distinction between child and adult has been eradicated. And if adults are so benighted as to carve their children and eradicate themselves from the culture...let them go somewhere that such life-altering folly is entertained. We don't grant children firearms, drivers licenses, alcohol, marriage, and so forth, yet degenerate servants of hell want to groom children for carving. And here you are trying to argue some "science-ish" basis for doing the unspeakable. Sure,

                    • You have stated multiple times that you don't want certain treatments available to certain people. In so doing you are telling people how to live their lives. You are even saying that adults cannot be allowed to make certain treatments available to their children; that is also a case of you telling people how to live their lives.

                      And if adults are so benighted as to carve their children and eradicate themselves from the culture...let them go somewhere that such life-altering folly is entertained

                      We'll just accept that you prefer for transgender kids to go ahead and take their own lives, rather than actually seek any form of treatment aside from someone they don't know yelling at them about what's in the bible. Got it, we can move on from that matter now. It's understood that you are indeed a fascist on that matter, even if you won't accept that term.

                      We don't grant children firearms, drivers licenses, alcohol, marriage, and so forth

                      There are numerous states that allow children to marry, some as young as 13. Every single one of those states voted for your team in the last pres

                    • Show me a repeatable experiment where you move from the Periodic Table of Elements to Biochemistry...

                      Can't. They're not separate. Biochemistry is simply a perfectly natural electro-chemical reaction amongst various elements.

                    • So, the neighbor's cat is fungible with a bag of salt? If you don't calm down on the smart conclusions, you're going to wake up POTUS some day.

                    • The cat requires a few more elements to be a cat. And being bags of mostly water would be more correct, for cats, and us

                    • And would those aforementioned bags of NaCl get all salty and produce still more bags, in our reductio ad fustakrakich formulation?

                    • Care to tell me where I made such a ridiculous statement? All these absurdities you postulate are on your side, not mine

                    • Care to tell me where I made such a ridiculous statement?

                      In your defense, the ridiculousness was completely in character:

                      Biochemistry is simply a perfectly natural electro-chemical reaction amongst various elements.

                      Your argument, AFAICT, restated in tech terms, could be phrased: "There is no operating system, there is only trickle current through some logic gates on the board."

                      And I sympathize fully with the plight of the flesh: it would be swell if we "Do what thou wilt" were the whole of the law. But everything less than the objective truth leads to rationalizations, and the elevation Dahmers to sainthood.

                    • There is no operating system

                      Sure there is. What do you think makes the reactions happen? It's extremely elemental. You're just trying to put your religious patriarch's face on it

                      the elevation Dahmers to sainthood

                      You make up the silliest shit!

                    • Sure there is. What do you think makes the reactions happen?

                      I thought you said that you feel things [slashdot.org]. Are you saying that some external driver above my individual emotion?

                      Obviously, agreeing with me is optional, but I have offered you a consistent, non-religious, sketch of existence. Your responses seem a soloist trying to play drums and bass simultaneously, to tragically comic effect.

                    • Are you saying that some external driver above my individual emotion?

                      You are a slave to electro-bio-chemistry. You decide if that is free will

                      I have offered you a consistent, non-religious, sketch of existence.

                      Man, you really make me laugh. You are totally religious, preaching specifically Christian doctrine as your crutch for motivation

                    • You are a slave to electro-bio-chemistry. You decide if that is free will

                      If that is true, then we can just dispense with elections and this web site and everything, since this idea renders life pointless. How you can "decide" anything is completely unclear. You and I are united with d_r in joylessness.

                    • How you can "decide" anything is completely unclear.

                      dopamine, babe.. And I like to keep my tummy full and my heart content.

                      You and I are united with d_r in joylessness.

                      You truly speak for yourself there, bub... I share nothing of the sort

                    • You and I are united with d_r in joylessness.

                      You truly speak for yourself there, bub... I share nothing of the sort

                      You don't? How do you know?

                    • Because I do. How do you "know" your god exists?

                    • Because I do. How do you "know" your god exists?

                      As I've repeatedly stated, there is no closed-from, mathematical proof by which one would claim to "know" the existence of God.

                      The Maslow-3D model posits an orthogonal, "faith" dimension to hold that content, so that we can be clear on the difference between "know" and "believe".

                      But this is not about the position that I've laid out. This is about obtaining similar clarity from you.

                    • I couldn't be more obvious. You have to drop the crutches and walk

                    • You have to drop the crutches and walk

                      I run a marathon for you, and rejection is my wages.

              • the instantiation of life is at...

                the big bang (if that's the way it happened)

                • the instantiation of life is at...

                  the big bang (if that's the way it happened)

                  My turn to be confused. Please state a simple hypothesis, e.g. "life begins at conception".

                  The hedging makes the buttocks enormous.

              • I know that absolute Truth exists...

                Really? Do tell!

                What, ya miss me that badly? [slashdot.org]

    • Your claim that playing dress up means a person is "transgendered" in their DNA is rather ludicrous.

      • I never said such a thing and your misinterpretation of my words is ludicrous.

        • It's one or the other. Either "transgendered people have existed for thousands of years", in which case you're talking about the very rare condition of intersex people, or gender is cultural only, has no relation to genes, and is really about child abuse.

          • Your binary world seems like a fascinating fantasy. I wonder what it must be like to live there. I watch your misinterpretations and outright lies pile up as you go on, yet you proudly keep soldiering on as if you actually believe the nonsense you spew out here.

        • your misinterpretation of my words is ludicrous

          Suitable for framing.

        • Not really.. The ability to create "transgender" (or transsexual) has not existed for thousands of years. The tech is fairly recent. I think you're confusing "transgender" with transvestite, which is, I believe, the point he is making.

          Cross dressing has indeed existed for millennia, but not the hormone treatments and surgery that requires a modern robust and prosperous social structure to maintain. Once treatments cease, for whatever reason, the person turns back into a pumpkin, except the old parts don't g

          • No, transgender is living as a gender other than that which you were born with. It doesn't necessarily require chemical or surgical procedures, but those do help the patient to feel themselves to be fully living in the gender that they were not born in to.

            I am absolutely not confusing dressing with living. Living as the other gender is much more than just wearing their clothing. Transvestites have any number of reasons for wearing the clothes of the opposite gender, some of which overlap with being t

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