Hope In The Hellmouth: Looking Ahead

The bad news was that countless geeks and nerds were hassled, "counseled" and sent home from school last week for looking odd or saying what they thought. Geek Profiling was epidemic. The good news was that there was an extraordinary sense of community on the Net and Web last week, and that the word got out, big time. The "Voices From The Hellmouth" were heard and quoted on some of the country's most influential mainstream media, just as many of you had hoped for. You did good. And a whole new stream of messages came in, many hopeful, positive and looking ahead Beyond the Hellmouth. They ranged from starting a Geek Church to offers of help from kids, parents, and teachers.

There was bad and good news from the Hellmouth last week. The national hunt for oddballs did, in fact, become a hysteria. Many journalists, parents, educators and politicians chose to blame the Net and computer games rather than face the much more complex and unwelcome messages coming from Littleton.

Things turned increasingly ugly, for geeks and oddballs, as teachers, administrators, reporters and peers sometimes made them feel like potential murderers.

Kids by the hundreds were sent home, ordered into counseling, sent to special classes, lectured, suspended, expelled and ostracized for thinking differently and being different. Many of these messages are harrowing.

" My school has locked down," e-mailed Josh late last night from Colorado. "The four days that I wasn't too depressed to go to school I was patted down by the police and was taunted by the "jocks" and faculty! The morale of my friends and I were so low that you couldn't get a worm to crawl under it. The counselor called me to her office. She asked me If I had ever played Doom or Grand Theft Auto, and I told her that I had. Then I was sent home. Crazy man, this just shouldn't be happening to a normal nerd like me."

It was happening to lots of normal nerds.

But there was good news from the Hellmouth, too.

The Web suddenly became a place, not just for software and start-ups, but for testimony. Educators and pundits kept telling us that schools are fine, that the real problem was violence online, on TV and film, in games. But geeks used the Internet for the first time to speak over the heads of institutions in a powerful, unfiltered way. Their stories were irrefutable.

On the usually diverse and quarrelsome Internet, there was something approaching unity and a sometimes enthralling sense of community.

One reporter asked me if I had any messages for parents. I didn't, but the thousands of kids and former kids e-mailing me did: instead of blocking computer games or the Net, support your kids and their culture, and work to make your local school more humane, creative and responsive to the many students who chose individualism.

Oddballs, nerds, Goths, geeks and other so-called misfits seemed to ground one another after Littleton. They told and traded stories and seemed to take some comfort in the realization that they were a new kind of nation.

And while most mainstream media continued to bombard the country with disturbing images of grief juxtaposed with wildly irresponsible finger-pointing, and to disseminate the most thoughtless and inaccurate stereotypes about computing, gaming, the Net and the Web, and Goths, a growing number of journalists showed that it's also simple-minded to stereotype all reporters as hostile and clueless.

My apologies to those reporters -- especially some working for National Public Radio, the San Jose Mercury, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the Chicago Tribune, Charlotte Observer, the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post and the San Francisco Chronicle - who looked beyond the hysteria. They worked hard and rooted out and exposed some of the worst excesses of "geek profiling" going on all over the country.

Defying conventional wisdom and sometimes risking their editors? wrath, these reporters - many of whom were young and are online -- gave voice to geek kids under siege. In dribs and drabs, the other side of the story began to trickle out, filtering not only through the press but through the stunning, rapidly evolving connective power of the Web itself. Your stories made their way into homes, schools and media offices all over the country.

So congratulations to those of you who had the courage and good will to post messages to me and the site, and to begin writing a new history for geeks and nerds and for the Net.

Some of these stories from Slashdot.org ultimately were broadcast via MSNBC.com, ABCnews.com and Cnn.com and NPR and are being quoted in influential newspapers; they continue to circulate. Sunday, the San Jose Mercury reprinted "Voices From the Hellmouth" on the front page of its opinion section. You were heard. You did some good.

I heard from dozens of teachers and school administrators whose students asked them to read your (and my) Slashdot writings. Some parents were surprised as well.

"What a stunning experience," e-mailed Kathy, "to read these very painful messages on Slashdot - my son gave me your columns to read -- and to suddenly really that one of them was from him. May he forgive me... I knew how unhappy he was, but on some level, I guess I just didn't want to face it. I bought the notion that it's just part of life in high school. What a strange new world that I should get this awareness from a website. Monday, I have an appointment with his principal. It's time for somebody aside from Jason to feel the heat."

"These kids are heroes for speaking out," wrote Mr. H, a school principal in San Diego, California. "For what it's worth, I passed these columns and the responses out at a faculty meeting. The teachers were shocked, but they also - unanimously - agreed they were reading some painful truths and were determined to respond. We all went home and got on our own or our kids? computers to read these stories from the Hellmouth ourselves. Speaking as one school administrator, I want to say lots of us got into this business to help, not hurt kids. I hope you can make that point.

"We have work to do.

"But some of us hear you, loud and clear. Kids, if you have suggestions, make them. The good administrators and teachers will hear them, even if they don't seem to. The bad ones'well, you'll be no worse off."

By this weekend, my personal e-mail had probably topped 6,000 e-mail messages chronicling a tide of misery, alienation and exclusion in the country's schools. Slashdot received several thousand more messages, many of which were posted on different threads, but the site had to cut off some posts each day due to the volume.

Meanwhile, scores of sites popped up where geek students and survivors could tell their own stories. The tales could go on forever, here and elsewhere, but they've made their point.

While horror stories continue to pour in, a number of these messages were positive, helpful and forward looking, evoking a world beyond the Hellmouth:

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From "Youth Cry", from Lord Kinbote:

?I have decided to start a Campaign towards fighting for the youth to be heard in the world as individuals:

Youth Cry.

Every day I go to school wishing for it to be different. Wanting a place for hope, a place to learn, a place without hate, and a place where being different isn't so wrong. But instead I find myself trapped in a prison of conformity. They tell me how I should be just like everybody else, how I should play their sports, how I should join their clubs, and how I should give up everything I have to be like them.

?it's time to let our ideas run free in the world and not be scared of the ridicule of being different. I ask you to stand up and shout your cry now, the cry you've held in all your life, but never let out because you were too afraid. Wear this ribbon on your sites around the world to help put out the blaze...

(The banner may be obtained from http://innerspace.hypermart.net/youthcry.html for use on pages.)

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The Church of Geeks, from Mark:

Surely if [you] founded the ?Church of Geekdom, geeks in schools will be protected by the existing laws? Hardly practical but maybe another stick to beat the administration with, and a way to underline the fact that it's a (peaceful) way of life.

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Call To Arms, from Bojay:

With all the commentary and what-not surrounding the whole debate, I think the time might be right to issue some kind of call to arms for geeks. Most of us are pretty, well, non-political about issues. I think if we're going to be running this country's infrastructure, and building communications world-wide, we ought to have a say. Which brings me to my second point - why can't we form a special-interest group? Over 1500 people have commented (some fiercely) about this. 99% of them think school was hell. Why not form a SIG to address "geek rights"? If you have any pointers, or some people you know who think like-minded, let me know. I'd like to start working on something that /will/ make a difference, not just a stir.

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I'm Going To Speak Up, from JD:

There's a school board meeting next Wednesday, and you can bet that I'm going to be there, speaking on this very subject'I wish they had the Web when I was a little younger. A community is a good thing.

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From Turned In:

I can understand where a lot of people are coming from on this. I am a 'freak' and 'goth'. I don't even know how I got the Goth label since I never wear black (I usually wear colorful outfits), don't like Marylyn Manson, and am an overall happy person. People seem to think I'm weird because I listen to Bjork and like Linux. Also, people (wrestlers, so I don't give them much credit) think I'm going to blow up the school. Why, you might ask? Well, because I am taking French, I dyed my hair, and (here's the clincher) I have a unibrow! So now unibrow = unabomber. Everyone watch out for that extra hair, it could be the difference between normal and serial killer?

Again, thanks for giving 'freaks' a place to be heard.

Fight Back With Jedi Mind-Tricks, from Geek Girl:

I am one of the misfits- a Girl Geek, if there was such a person. I got abused horribly by the jocks like the guys did, but it was worse in some ways as a woman because of the sexual element. ... I never considered doing violence to my tormentors- although my desire to defeat them led me in a roundabout way to the study of the occult- where I learned instead to rule myself. (Yes, there is a good side to the occult, if you can get past all the BS.)

Now, I understand how Jedi Mind Tricks really work, and when I have to have a run-in with a jock sort (they live in a time warp, growing potbellies and kids, but never truly maturing) I remember how weak-minded they are, and whop them with a bit of good old verbal and mental Aikido.

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I AM ALONE, by Robert Sterling:

I am alone

beholden to no one

I need no one

I do not care

if I or anyone else

exists

Nor do I care what

others think

what they want or

how they feel

I am alone

And now I can laugh

and that is good

for I was not

previously

programmed

to do so

Copyright 1999 Robert Sterling

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Queen of Peace seeks Doom Club Competitors:

Hey guy,

Queen of Peace HS in North Arlington, NJ, already has a DOOM club - they can't find anyone else out there to compete against. Are there any others? (do they dare announce at this time?), the contact name is [e-mail] ( Ms. Crocco at Queen of Peace )

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Don't Go Back, by Janus:

I'm a freshman at a California high school, and a geek, and a Goth, and I don't have to tell anybody reading this what a Hell-week this has been for me - to the principal's office three times, and my parents have grounded me for the rest of my sad life, taken Doom, confiscated my Marilyn Manson CD's?oh well, no point in complaining. I will never quit or be beaten. I narrowly escaped counseling by bringing in a note from my minister.

I just want to say to all of you that for all of that, this has been one of the worst weeks of my life, but also one of the best weeks of my life, because for the first time in my four-year career as a creative and hard-working geek, I felt I had some help out there, that there were people I could go to. And there were actually stories and columns about me and people like me. I thought for sure nobody cared. So that was awesome!

Geeks will always fight, because it's their nature, but please don't go right back to all the flaming and arguing only... For me, and for all of the young geeks out there, how about it? This could really make a big difference in my life, and while I'm writing this, five wretched geek friends are standing right behind me while I type this in... Okay?

---

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I Want to Listen, From a Teacher:

I am a teacher of high school; seniors in San Jose at Santa Teresa High School. Many students seek my time as a listener who makes no judgements. My age [68] may be a factor. Perhaps they look on me as a surrogate grandfather. When they seem to feel the need of someone to talk to in confidence, they ask, I listen.

I am worse than novice on The Net. I guess its a hangover from big telephone bills. However, if you think I can be of listening assistance for the loners, I will volunteer through you.

I want to be a listener for these kids. Please let me know if I can assist. [e-mail]

---

The Quiet Revolution, from JD in Chicago:

I feel strangely optimistic about this week, as a veteran misfit with many ribbons and scars. If I hadn't learned how to stand firm while avoiding confrontation, they might have driven me crazy too. We are making a quiet revolution, the geeks. You can call it open source or open music or open whatever'it's unstoppable. All we have to do is not quit, and eventually, time will come around to us. Or maybe, a better way of putting it, is our time is coming. Then all of the things we've suffered won't be in vain.

Was it my imagination, or is the new story that things are looking up in the Hellmouth even, as Janus suggests, when they seem to have been worse than ever?

Aren't we milking this a little too much?

Hey, I liked the first two articles on this, and it is an interesting issues... but aren't we milking this a little TOO far? If not, why don't we create a nerd in school icon for related stories so they can be filtered? (Or discriminated against!)

Profiling is BAD

So now white geeks are learning what those of us with middle-eastern looks/names/religion have known for years:
PROFILING IS BAD.

It sucks when black motorists get hassled for DWB (Driving While Black), when black women are subjected to full body
searches at the airport by drug agents with NO evidence (and NO drugs are subsequently found) and when high school deans
and prinicipals start hassling people for dressing in a non-standard manner or for being interested in technology.

Oh yeah ... and it also sucks when I get hassled by airlines. :-)

-Punjabi

A lot of empty words from various officials

I've been listening to various officials on this topic. One school administrator said (of going back to school today) that it's time to "Get back on the horse." I always suspected my school administrators of being on SOMETHING, I just didn't know it was horse.

I hate that cliche' and I hope the previous kills it for good.

One administrator said that students WILL be safe and that they'll be there for them. Funny, isn't that what they said BEFORE? Call me a cynic...

One administrator said that they will not make schools a prison. Yeah. At least in prision you can smoke. And wasn't that what the schools were before? That's always what I thought when I was incarcerated. But then, we already knew I was a cynic.

AC's Predictions:

Nothing will change for the better. The system will be more ruled by paranoia than it was before. We'll probably see a few more metal detectors and security guards in the schools for a while, some more restrictive rules on backpacks and clothing and in general a much more oppresive atmosphere than we had a month ago. There will be a lot of talk and a few symptoms will be targetted, but you know what, the actual disease will still be there and it will not be addressed. Bummer.

AC's best bets for survival and keeping your sanity: Get out as soon as you can, get your GED and go to college. The younger memebers of the audience are SOL. Sorry. Pressure your parents into looking into home schooling. It ain't much, maybe someone else can come up with more.

School System. Thought it was just me.

I'm now 25, but I went to school in a very conservative, very small Southeast Texas town. To make matters worse, my parents were not only involved in the school, they worked for it. My stepfather was my principal throughout my high school years. This may sound like a blessing to some, but for me it was a curse.

I too was a bit of an outsider (a popular outsider, but an outsider none the less). I didn't like what everyone else liked, I didn't listen to the same music, I didn't dress the same, I didn't really enjoy school activities. I preferred being on my computer, reading a book, or playing D&D with my friends.

I was a very foward looking person, and I saw right through the illusion that was High School. I knew that short months after graduation, I wouldn't be hanging around with the same people, and the things that I did or that happened to me would be of very small consequence. However, with my parents working in the school system, there was a large pressure to "succeed". I don't mean just academically, that part was easy and came naturally, but I had to put off a good example for all the other kids. I had to belong to all the prestigious school groups, and I had to either be in band or sports, I had to date the right girls, I had to be someone I was not.

Or, rather, I was expected to be. I did my own thing. But, it caused me no end of emotional pain. It seemed that everything I wanted to do or found fun was wrong. I had a lot of emotional issues because I was pushed into a lot of roles that I didn't really fit into. Luckily, I was fairly popular, and people realized that I was a genuinely nice guy, even if I didn't look or act according to the norm. I was fortunate that way. But, while I didn't get harrassment from my peers, I got it at home full force. Everything everyone's been writing about how school was so fascist and demanding and conformist, that's how my home life was as well. All the things I wanted to do were somehow "wrong" or "demonic" or just "deviant". Every month it seemed my mother was confiscating things out of my room that she didn't want me to have, such as computers, CDs, modems, books, you name it. They bought into all the hysteria on everything. Some kid went out and killed his friends, and he just incidentally happened to play dungeons and dragons? There go all my role playing books and dice. That's just a remote isolated instance. My parents never seemed to understand that I knew what was going on and that I had a vision that extended further than the next three days. There were girls I dated not because I loved them or because I wanted to spend forever with them, but just because I found them interesting. It was high school, for christ's sake, but my mother assumed that every girl I brought home was one that was a potential marriage candidate. Everything was all about appearance, not facts. I almost went crazy living that life. Why can't school administrators and parents understand that just because their kids want to be a little different, or experiment with things, it doesn't mean they are a bad kid. Not everyone fits into the societal norm. I really thought I got a warped view on how high school was because my parents were a part of the whole system. I thought that perhaps it was just me and I was the only one that got oppressed on a daily basis.

I still rememeber my parents yelling at me to "get off the computer" or "go outside and do something productive" or "why aren't you in more school activities? You sit around too much on that damn computer". I wonder how they feel knowing that this year I'll be making 20k more than the two of them combined ever did, and I'm doing it on "that damned computer".

Glad to see the silver lining in all this

Katz has found a medium where he excells, as a passive moderator of an online community. This series on the hellmouth is a great work of moving the ego out of the way, and letting the substance of a community shine through.

I am especially heartened to see all the others who, like me, are giving words of encouragement to those suffering through the hellmouth of school. The messages about it getting better all ring true, high school in America is truly a hellacious place for any type of non-conformism or individuality. It has gotten much, much worse in the 20 years since I was there.

I suffered through all kinds of official torment each time I showed a bit of being "different", once getting expelled for 3 days for playing 'punk music' (talking heads and blondie in 1979) on the school radio. I built the school radio, the transmitter and the studio, and just before graduating I brought many accolades to the school for some of my achievements. The school claimed them as proof of their ability, but I have always chafed at that, since everything I did was against school policy, and still is. Last week they banned Marylyn Manson and all goth music.

So, kids out there, don't despair. You'll make it through school, despite the administration and the cops and the councellors. And when you get out the other side, you will find there are rewards for being "different", and not all of them are financial. When your first art exhibit opens to good reviews, or your first computer game hits the shelves, or you get appointed to a human rights commission, then you will know that being different paid off. Persevere.

Re:Different != good

The point missed here is that while "evil and violent" does imply "different", the converse, that "different" implies "evil and violent" is not necessarily true. Unfortunately, the powers that be apparantly never took a course in logic.

The U.S. was built upon some pretty important principles, one being that one is innocent until proven guilty. Supposedly, before investigating and othewise violating someone's private life, one should have reasonable suspicion or, after the fact, probable cause. There's a reason why the police are supposed to get a search warrant before searching someone's property. Looking different isn't enough.

Your line of thinking is frighteningly close to how Hitler managed to strip Jews of their basic rights, and kill them by the millions -- with the help of Goebels (minister of propaganda), he innundated the population with true stories in the media of Jewish rapists, murderers, thieves. (We tend to do the same thing with non-whites, sadly) To simply be Jewish was now enough reason to "investigate" and act.

Group hug

It's a pet theory of mine that the biggest impact of telecommunications, and the net in particular, will be cultural.

In the past, one's culture depended to a very large degree on one's physical place. The net is changing this, and allows us to find our own cultures (yes, plural), independent of our geographical location and "real world" culture. Not a global village with a monoculture, but a bazaar of cultures/communities.

This need not necessarily be a good thing (think of suicidal cults), but the Hellmouth discussions show that it can be. The net is a place where we can go beyond the grief this tragedy caused, and where we can force each other to search our souls, not just to ask "What went wrong?" and "Who/what can we blame this on" but also "What can we learn from this?".

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to the Hellmouth discussions and thereby helped the "real" world show that the net is a home for communities.

Life, the Universe, and Everything

I apologize for posting this now instead of earlier in the Hellmouth series, but it was terribly long and I didn't want it at the last page of 300 comments where few people travel. Yes, it's really long and just reiterates all the stuff you've heard until you get towards the bottom half.

As an avid Slashdot reader, former high school and now college) student, and self-confessed Geek I feel compelled to give you the my viewpoints. I have been mostly speechless as most of the articles and comments from my fellow Slashdot readers have essentially said most of what I feel. However I must express some of my own viewpoints.

The fallout of the shootings in Littleton have lead many to attempt to find any explanation as to how such an event could occur. Many are blaming anything that they can tie to the killers. Trenchcoats, Quake, Marilyn Manson, the Internet, Hitler, and anything non-conformist all are being blamed. This is very ironic. Let us examine these closely.

Trenchcoats: Now some people would have you believe that wearing a trenchcoat automatically makes you someone who will shoot up anything. This is ironic because if you examine it closely, your officers of the peace and armed forces have trenchcoats as part of the standard uniform. And these are people carrying guns as their job. I don't see them shooting up everything in sight without orders.

Quake: this is the classic "blame violence for causing violence" issue. Does this mean if I watch the news and they show a protest in Israel, fighting in Kosovo, or footage of the civil rights marches of the 1960's that I will go shoot people? I don't think so. Actually, the effect of so much violence being shown by the media leads to the viewers being desensitized.

Marilyn Manson: The same people who listened to rock in the 60's (who are now the parents of the children listening to Mariliyn Manson) are doing the exact thing their parents did to them. They blame the music for their kids being disobedient. How hypocritical.

The Internet: The Internet is at fault for providing the killers with bomb plans? Excuse me. I believe there is another place where you can find everything you need to know about building a bomb. It is your local library. I do believe Abbie Hoffman wrote one book with bomb plans in it, and there is the _Anarchist's Cookbook_ too, along with everything from chemistry books to books on the physics of the atomic bomb. The Internet only makes it faster to find what you are looking for.

Hitler: I believe it was reported by an NBC affiliate that one of the killer's mothers was Jewish, or at least had Jewish roots. Strange. Also, the people who are acting anything like Hitler are the people segregating anyone resembling a profile of the killers and forcing them to be ostracizied. They're rounding them up into internment camps and re-education facilities they call "counseling" and "therapy sessions", or they exile them from school to keep all the other "good" children safe.

Anything Non-conformist: The parents, teachers, school administration, etc. are mostly of the Baby Boomer era. They were non-conformists. They had Woodstock, they experimented with drugs, and they didn't conform to what their parents wanted. Suddenly the people who didn't conform to what their parents wanted expect their children to conform to what they want?

A Geek Life Story

I had a rough time in school from the start. Both my parents worked. My dad worked various shifts, and my mom worked mainly 3p to 11p 5 days a week. We lived in the bad part of the Port Clinton, Ohio. In the Port Clinton area, you can go from a $500,000 view of Lake Erie from a cliff to less than $300 apartments in duplexes built as temporary housing for troops in World War II that were meant to be destroyed after the war. My parents encouraged me to learn. We sacrificed cable TV, good clothes, and everything else for books and educational stuff. We got our first computer in 1990. Things got better for us by misfortune. My father was in three auto accidents, one in 1984 when I was 6, one in 1986 (IIRC), and one in 1989. From the total of the three accidents he is partially paralized, suffers loss of short term memory, has severe muscle spasms, thoracic outlet syndrome, and a host of other ailments. This set the stage for me to grow up with an even bigger division between my classmates and I. I had a father who was working to pay the bills, in constant pain, and unable to do the normal fatherly things like teaching his son how to throw and catch a football or baseball. My mother worked full-time to pay the bills. There were doctor bills, lawyer bills, insurance bills, everything. My parents fought to get the insurance companies to pay on their policies and pay the bills. They finally reached a good settlement which allowed us to move into a good neighborhood, wear good clothes, have a satellite dish, and live the "average" middle-class life depicted in the media and television. "Oh boy!" I thought. I had been a subject of ridicule since about third grade. I was always called "very bright" by teachers. I never fit in with the other students though, because I couldn't play their games (not knowing the rules and how to kick or throw a ball) and I would always get praise from the teacher, causing jealousy and anger in my classmates because it was demonstrated that I was smarter than them. I got ridiculed, but I actually got attention, something I didn't get at home. I seized on it. I became a class clown. They put me into a Talented and Gifted program where I had fun and learned things instead of being bored in class. I didn't get along well with the other people in there because I played class clown. I didn't know how to make friends. People learned my father was handicapped and made fun of him. I couldn't do anything. I was like this until high school, where I finally snapped and started defending myself. I had enough of a certain group of sophomores and older picking on me in gym class. I started poking fun of them when they started taunting me, and one day it came to a head where I saw the group enter the locker room in a mass. I just turned to ignore them, and they came around me and one of them punched me hard right in the back. I jumpped up on the bench and laid into the kid all over the head. His buddies drug me out to the teacher and told her I attacked this kid, and I told her he attacked and I defended myself, and please let's take this down to the principal. It went to the principal where I was told that I would be seeing ten days of out of school suspension. I told the principal that any policy where someone is punished for defending themself was unfair, and that I would gladly take it to the school board and an attorney if I needed to. Needless to say I wasn't punished. As a result of this though, people didn't mess with me as much. We would trade insults but not much else. However I wasn't still in the "in" group because by then I saw the "in" group for what they are: materialistic, superficial people with bad values and morals. I decided that I didn't have to get perfect grades or wear $50 jeans or cheer the school on. During this period I contemplated many different acts of violence against my classmates or my teachers or the administraton, or even myself. I thought regularly about suicide. I attempted it several times. I survived long enough to graduate. I did think about getting a GED; however, the even though you can't be discriminated for having a GED it still carries certain stigmata.

What Happened After High School?

I'm at a university in south-eastern Ohio reknowned for its party and riot reputation, surrounded by more of the same people. I realized that last quarter. I'm not doing too well in my classes either. The difference between the people here and the people in high school is that the people here realized whether I graduate or not, I will likely end up being paid and worth more than they are. They ask me for computer help, they actually try to integrate me into their social activities, and they respect me more than the people in high school did. I am still emotionally scarred from my time in primary and secondary school though. I have been to several counsellors, psychiatrists, and I currently take 20mg of Prozac a day. I had one brief relationship which broke up badly because I did not feel adequate nor was I actually adequate for my significant other, and I had nothing to guide me in the relationship, since I had no experience. I have only a few things in my life that make it tolerable. Right now my father is fighting to keep working, since his employer (an automotive systems coroporation recently made wholly separate from a large US automaker) and the union he is a member of (a union for people in the automobile indusrty) are discriminating against him because he wants a policy of their changed because it is discriminatory. Remind yourself that he is legally handicapped. (You may not like the term, but that's what it says on the blue and white tag that gets him front-row parking in most places.) He now has some idea of what life was like for me. He really wants to continue working there but the people there want him out because he didn't sit down and shut up and conform. If he loses his job, quits his job, or takes disability from them, he effectively can't make enough to help put my sister and I through college, and he doesn't have job skills for the current job market nor can he pass a physical to get a job. He takes his anger out on the rest of the family, and we understand why he does this. We're waiting for more information from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to get back with decisions on how to handle these matters. That's where things are for now.

What's Ahead?

I am doing something that I want to do. I run LilithFair.org [lilithfair.org] (not the official site in case you didn't catch the .org) and while it's been a pain in the butt it's something that I have hope for. I'm doing it in part because I sort of owe my life to Sarah McLachlan and other singing women. It's kind of my outlet and my stress relief to listen to that music rather than rap, R&B, or a group of screaming boys jumping around. I'd like to get a job as an administrator for the summer at least, if not for the next year if someone offers. I'll be happy to take a year off from college. I'd like to be part of Lilith 99. I'd bust my butt for them in exchange for food and a place to sleep for 4-6 hours. Happily. (Okay so I'm weird.)

What the Heck Should I Get Out of This?

* Some people have it harder than you (I didn't intend this to make a flood of personal hardship stories, but just an example to try to cheer up some people who think they have it bad).

* Maybe sometimes hauling off and decking someone might be a Good Thing (okay this is debatable).

* Find something to have hope in. Find something to put your anger towards. Don't lose hope!

I'm not afraid to stand up and say I'm James Turinsky. If someone has a problem with it that's too bad. Feel free to reduce/recycle/reuse any part of this if you tack my name and my e-mail address [e-mail] [mailto] on it. Feel free to e-mail me. Feel free to ICQ me at #20441490. I have nothing to be afraid or ashamed of.

conformity does nothing

So conformity is a good thing? A one nation world? A one Operating System computing platform?
That is what your arguement is sounding like.

Einstein was "different".
Socrates was "different".
Jimi Hendrix was "different".
Linux Torvaldes is "different". (grin)

The problem with stereotyping the way people act with the way people look is that there will always be people who break the stereotype.

What does conformity accomplish? If everything is the same -- what changes -- where do new trends come from -- where do we evolve mentally and as a society?

There should always be a conflict , someone rocking the boat and changing the norm. Stagnation accomplishes nothing. If it was not for being "different", new ideas would not be as plentiful.

You can't single out "suspects" of who is going to strike next. It could be anyone, it could be an honors student who snapped because he didn't study for a test and failed it and it ruined his GPA. It could be a kid who has mental problems. It could be a teacher whose wife just left him. It could be a principal who just can't take it anymore. Looking for people because of how they look is making the innocent out to be guilty. Last time I checked in the United States the law was "innocent until proven guilty". (I can't speak for other countries)

I see the weak point you are trying to make that if you dress differently then you should expect criticism. And I think the problem here is lack of respect....if I dress differently why should you disrespect me? Because I am different from you? That is no reason to disrespect someone, that just causes more problems and seperation.

The attitude is not "people who look and act differently are superior" no one is claiming superiority, all anyone wants is equality. That's like saying defending women's liberation is being "anti-male and pro-female domination". We should have the right to express ourselves in any manner (which does not hurt others) and not be condemned for it. The attitude is not "we are better"; the attitude is "you are not any better/worse".

Derek
http://www.reject.org/
"It's so easy to defend the status-quo" -nofx

Thanks!

Jon Katz is to be commended. I the recent past I have not always agreed with him, but this time I do. This has gone on long enough. Enough is enough and it's time for a change. A social revolution is at hand. The lurkers from down below have risen to the challenge before them, and are taking a stand at being themselves. Don't be a cardboard cutout of a pattern that was designed by someone. Be yourself and revel in your own accomplishments. After all who really wants to be just "another brick in the wall."

my two and a half cents....
Me!

Re:Myoptic Views

On the one hand, we are all responsible for the world we live - we made it, and we have to live with it.

But your last comment - that outcasts do it to themselves - is exactly the fascist attitude that breeds paranoia and violence. It is backwards logic to assume that people who are maladjusted made it that way on purpose. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

The shooters in Littleton made their choice. The rest of the wierd world should not be made to suffer for it.

Psychotic Views

Done what to ourselves? Yes, we chose to be different, but we did NOT choose to be abused, harrassed, or beaten. The reaction to our personalities comes soley from the environment. I am living proof of this. I am the same person, to a large degree, as I was in middle school. (except no longer depressed... and that grew from my treatment there) In one school I was made fun of and avoided because I could program, and far worse, I was female. What girl/woman is expected to program, let alone beat the guys at it -- or math or science or anything else? Several YEARS later I found friends -- people, almost exclusively -- who had moved from other states or countries where the rules that prevailed there did not loom so darkly. We weren't beaten like other geeks might have been, but we were humiliated. Luckily for me, they did not hit girls, but that did not prevent them from throwing my books to the ground or stealing my possessions.

Was I asking for any of this? Simply by being intelligent in unexpected areas, I was a misfit and worse.

My family moved to CA, after far too long of this hell, and I went to a school were people were TOLERATED. Had I changed in those short months of the summer? No. But my environment had. No longer was school a living hell. Yes, it took me years to recover, but at least I was able to.

So what did I do wrong? How was I asking for my treatment?

Lea

Nice Job Katz

After having read the "Hellmouth" series to date and the related /. discussions, I have to say this has been one of the most positive, refreshing uses of the net I have seen for some time. Aside from bringing back old, forgotten memories of just how difficult and painful high-school was (and thereby improving my own empathy for some of what kids are going through today), I think it has started us down the very necessary path of taking a hard look at some of the real dysfunctional aspects of our society.

Some additional points (not very organized, but worth saying I think)

* Things must change, else we'll see (much) more of the same. Children do not go mad in a vacuum, clearly something is very wrong, and it is high time we started looking at the causes with something greater than the hitherto superficial calousness and passing interest. Blame games and superfical pop-phychology are simply no longer acceptable.

* The fact that "that's always the way it's been" is no excuse for not initiating change. Until 70 years ago war had always been considered a pretty good way of expanding one nation's influence, power, or wealth at the expense of others. While we still make war even today, very few think of it as anything other than a trajedy. 30 years ago racism was institutionalized in the US at every level, now, while racism still exists, most if not all would be very emberrassed to admit racist attitudes today. Two lessons come from these examples: (1) real progress is possibe and achievable, regardless of the length of history or lack of precedent preceeding it, BUT (2) real progress is almost always slow and painful, as evidenced by just how much work still needs to be done (vis a vis achieving a society in which war is unthinkable, and skin color is of no more, or no less, interest than hair or eye color). This is both a cause for hope and excitement, as well as a cautionary note to not place one's expectations too high, and to not grow too discouraged if ones expectations are not achieved right away.

* The net has often been touted as a tool for social change. The "hellmouth" phenominon looks like the beginning of what could be a very powerful, very positive example of this, especially if it can bridge the communication gap between those of us who have suffered under the system as it currently is, and those who have the power to facilitate change. I find it incredibly reassuring that administrators, parents, and teachers are reading the comments on /. and taking them to heart. Maybe positive change will come during my lifetime, afterall.

* "Open Source, Open Music, Open Thought, Open Minds." (Not my quote, but I'm happy to adopt/pirate it) The scientific paradigm (the open exchange of ideas which are then subject to peer review, discussion, and improvement without -- ideally -- preconcieved bias) is I believe the catalyst for this phenomenon. The net has made this paradigm available, even fundamental, to many outside of scientific circles. Like the printing press bringing literacy to the masses, the changes this will spark are nothing short of staggering. But IMHO the net is simply the medium, it is the "open thought" paradigm, finally given the means to reach a large percentage of humankind, that is the real force driving change.

* Finally, please, please, if you're going to use MS Word, turn off "smart quotes"! Those non-ISO standard characters are displayed as question marks by those of us using non-windoze browsers, and they are really distracting!

A half-truth can be worse than a lie

The half-truth that I am referring to:

> But I can't help but think that those of us who ever saw ourselves as outcasts have done it to ourselves.

I am possibly taking this to mean something something beyond what the original poster meant, but this could so easily be extended to "outcasts are to blame for their own situation", and there is a point here that needs to be made.

I'll speak from my own case, as that the best way to say this, and I suspect that my case is far from unique:

I was bullied through my whole time at school, not necessarily for being a 'nerd' or a 'geek' but just for being 'different'.

When I look back on it a few years later, I realize the rather unpleasant truth, that in some ways I had myself set up to be bullied. It was like a I created an invisible sign saying 'victim' that everyone else could see and I couldn't (btw, I certainly don't have that sign now). It's difficult to be specific, but there was something that made it obvious that I was a good target - I couldn't/wouldn't effectively hit back. So I can understand the idea that I did some of it to myself.

BUT, and this is where the above is only a half truth, the fact that I was a 'victim' in absolutely no way excuses the victimization, and the system that permitted the victimization to happen for so long. I did not in any way 'deserve' to be bullied. I did in some ways make myself an outcast, but much of that was ways of trying to keep myself safe from further bullying, and the whole mess reinforced itself. I certainly did not intentionally set myself up as a victim, and the times that I was blamed for the situation did me a terrible disservice.

This paragraph might be a little tasteless in the context of the recent shootings, but my one real regret from high school is that I let the bullies get away with it without effectively hitting back. (I suspect that if I said something like that as a student of an American school at the moment, I would be sent home pronto).

I do agree strongly with 'Bucko's point that we need to be careful not to be part of the problem. It's not for being a 'nerd' or 'geek' that people are given a hard time - being different from the norm in whatever way is sufficient. Let's not forget that.

Roy Ward.

Myoptic Views

For nearly two weeks now the search for meaning and the search for culprits in this terrible event has led to -
Well, where it's led has depended on who you read. And I find that "interesting" to say the least.
Read Salon, it's the gays who are being blamed. Read the W. Post and it's the Goths, the Marylyn Manson fans and the Hitler Youth who get the blame. And let's not forget gun owners.
Read SlashDot, and it's the Geeks who are blamed, except that they are blaming the jocks.
Yeah, right. Who's kidding whom? You hurt someone, you're part of the problem. You pull the trigger, you're a big part of the problem. You point fingers, you're part of the problem too. And that includes the Geeks here, who don't seem to notice that they're doing-unto-others exactly what they say is being done to them.

Yes, this is one big mess and the e-mails Jon Katz has shown all week us are compelling. But I can't help but think that those of us who ever saw ourselves as outcasts have done it to ourselves.

J.

Re:Streamed Education

I can't say as I agree.

I attended a magnet school for a while in Florida. There were kids who were there because they had applied and were accepted, and those who were there because it happened to be their school district. The kids in the magnet program and the kids in the district were segregated like blacks and whites in the old south-- territories clearly marked, students kept in separate lines-- it was disgusting.

The worst part was that nerds and geeks never got in trouble for what they did. I was part of the geek group, and I saw more injustice than I cared to see.

I remember a geek and a "local" getting into a verbal battle. The local kid was rational, the geek wasn't. Needless to say, the geek took an intellectual whipping. He, however, didn't like losing to somebody "dumber" than him, so he landed a punch right across the non-geek kid's jaw. The non-geek, not wanting a fight, simply pushed the geek to the ground.
The geek was at school the next day. The other kid wasn't at school for another two weeks.

There are more stories I could tell. But why? Obviously, people seem to think that we can recitify the situation by reversing it.

I hate to say it, but being a geek is ALWAYS going to be hard. "Geek" might not be the word the tormentors use, and the kids may just as easily be "greasers", but tormentors and tormentees will always exist in the hellish battle that is high school. The best we can do is to offer support to those who feel like there are little demons running around poking them in the ass with pitchforks. Whether these kids are jocks or nerds or goths or greasers doesn't matter-- we need to be supportive and let them know that it gets better.

It's getting to the point where Slashdotters are intent on making schools into geek Utopias instead helping kids get through the hell that, sadly, high school will always be.

Re:Jesus Katz, enough with the self-promoting.

I didn't hear a thing about Himself in the what, four? articles he's posted so far on the subject. The reason he's posted so much is because there is, in fact, more to tell. The first was about how he thought it was. The second, about all the email telling us how it really is. The third, the "normal people"'s backlash. This one, about the anti-backlash.

Furthermore, this last one is the most important one, IMHO. It means we're not dead yet. It means that something good is going to come out of all this death and destruction. Katz has an ego, yeah. But this ain't part of it. For once he's being a good journalist, unlike the shlock we get on the street and the boob toob every day, and telling as many sides of the story as he can get his hands on. Tell me where the hell else I can go and get that, huh? Please, I'd love to get some unbiased non-nerd news once in a while. The ONLY place I know of to get ALL sides of a story is none other than right here [slashdot.org]. And Taco don't post politics.



Don't criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins. Then you'll be a mile away, and you'll have his shoes.

"wanted" poster?

Someone (I call notme!) should make a "wanted" poster that kids can post in their schools:

WANTED:
non-conformists
for crimes yet to be
committed!

There are members of our community who are threatening the bland conformity that we have tried so hard to create! Please report anyone matching the following description to your superiors so that these individuals can be "corrected." Remember, opinions you don't agree with are wrong!

Warning signs:
-- odd clothing
-- liking for weird, therefore bad, music
-- heavy internet use
-- high intelligence
-- seeking out others with similar tastes
-- zits
-- dislike for classes, teachers
-- reclusiveness
-- anything else?

Geek Profiling run amuck

The irony of some of the geek profiling has been enough to make you retch at times. The NYT did a piece on an Arizona high school, outlining the cliques and in particular where they sat at lunch. The jocks and cheerleaders outside at the prime tables, and god help you if you tried to sit there if you weren't of the approved. The regular students inside the cafeteria. And off in the drama building, the drama geeks as well as various other oddballs who had taken refuge with them, because anyone from special ed students to geniuses could hang out there without fear. So let's guess which group was being harrassed last week: the gentle tolerant ones or the assholes who had driven them out.

Yes! Got it in one. They wear *black*, after all, and therefore must be EVIL.

I've got a suggestion for a constructive bit to go with our venting, though: there were two superb replies on one of the earlier Hellmouth threads outlining exactly what rights students had (they can't just suspend you without a hearing, for example) and how to work the rules if they start making arbitrary dress code changes and the like (they ban black? make them specify exactly how much black you can wear. Helpfully report popular students who violate the rules.)

It would be an awfully good idea to put up those sort of useful messages in a permanent, easily accessible area/webpage (Geek Defense, perhaps.)

Laura

Us.

I think we as a group of people need to come together and show people who and what we are. For so long we have stayed in our own groups and kept to ourselves because of feer of what would happen if we spoke out. I feel that now is the time that we should raise our voice against today's socitey and point out all the problems in it that create a culture that excludes and persecute us.

We should take a stand and cry out against the injustice that is done to us, and for once stand-up for ourselves. Not through violence like the boys in Littleton, but through peace of words. We must make people see that what they do is wrong and they we are not the bad ones, that they are the ones who would destroy us, not us them. Through our united voice via the Internet, our great tool, should we show people that we are good.

Re:Different != good

The POV of eponymous cohort: Adolf Hitler is "different," therefore, everyone who is "different" is bad. Therefore, we should send all those who are "different" to re-education (i.e. counseling) and keep them away from decent folks (i.e. other students, especially the conforming ones) because they're going to snap and start killing people.

Have you been missing Katz' point entirely? Kids are being singled out for no other reason than their looks and being officially harassed.

I seriously hope to whatever supreme being may or may not be out there that you aren't a school administrator, police officer, or other government official.

What good is "expressing ones individual identity" if everyone else thinks you are a freak, and treats you as such?

Ever heard of the First Amendment?

Easing our conscience?

I hate to be a cynic, but I am honestly expecting all of these counselling centers and offers of help and assistance to slowly fade out over the months. People want to help in the immediate wake of the crisis, but how many are truly in it for the long haul?

I point to the case on Slashdot of the guy who was challenging MS because he owned the term "Internet Explorer." When we found out his kid was sick, everybody wanted to send money. People offered to set up accounts. Then within days, when people found out he'd settled, all offers were taken off the table.

This is NOT the first time a school shooting has taken place. Why are people offering to start things now? Why didn't they start them last time it happened, so it wouldn't happen this time?

A view from the fence

I've been experiencing the repercussions of this event from both sides of the fence. I'm fortunate enough to be a sponsor / leader for the high school youth group at my church, which is urban and Presbyterian. Although we're a little light on "jocks", otherwise we've got a real cross section of the high-school power structure among the group members. (As an example, we recently participated in an interfaith-exchange program, and after seeing our group, the Jewish delegation asked if our church required boys to have long hair. :-)

I deeply know the pain and agony that can be life at highschool, both from the young people in the group and from my own school experience (I won our district's high school *team* programming contest working alone. There wasn't anyone from my school there. 'Nuff said).

However, I've also heard the fear of being bombed or shot from almost every young person in our group. One of our youth talked about the fact that when he walks around now, he always keeps an "escape route" in mind. Another told of a "lock down" because someone brought a gun to class. Yet another was sent outside for a few hours after a bomb threat emptied the building. Yet another was on a "hit list" confiscated from a student who had allegedly been planning a mass-murder. Many were afraid to go to school last friday, which supposedly was the anniversary of Hitler's death. The terror goes on, and on, and on.

The problem is that now, every attention-seeking, disaffected, neglected youth knows how to get immediate attention and action: threaten to shoot something or blow something up. It's very sad that our educational institutions (and parenting!) have fallen to the level that this is necessary. But it is also unacceptable that our young people (most of whom go about their daily business without picking on people) live in fear.

If you've been experiencing the Hellmouth, I sympathize deeply with you. Please find *someone* to talk about it with, whether it's your parents, your church leaders, your friends, or an Internet community.

Please *don't* take out your frustrations by "pushing the limits" and scaring other people, no matter how tempting that may be at times. It just doesn't help, and it will only prolong this backlash.

Pay 'em like garbage men....

..and that's the level of service you get. I think *some* of the problems in high school and our school system in general could be solved with money, in the right place. I'd like to see a teacher pay raise of roughly 100%, make it a, crazy idea here, highly competitive field to be in, as opposed to something more akin to a fall-back position. I had a some good teachers whose influence is with me still, however I had many more folks just showing up everyday that did absolutely nothing for me. Teaching can be very rewarding, but it's also very difficult/demanding to be done correctly, b/c the industry itself(public teaching) will never generate revenue, that line of work will not be compensated in accodance to its importance.
Forget programs and initiatives and all the crap that won't work without dedicated individuals..and go find those dedicated individuals, and compensate them!

(I'm not a teacher, not even close really)