Non-RIAA Record Companies?

d4 asks: "I've seen a list of RIAA members, but what I'd really like to know is: what record companies are not RIAA members? Many smaller labels are subsidiaries of larger companies, and it's not always easy to tell where affiliations lie. So if I'm going to boycott the RIAA, from whom can I still buy music?" If there are any of you out there preparing a protest for the RIAA's treatment of Napster, then you may want to read this one.

Companies owning companies

this has always been a huge problem.

I'm a vegetarian, and I have a lot of vegan friends who wish to boycott companies who are particularly horrible to the environment and to animals and so on. So not suprisingly, many of them boycott McDonalds. But you can't really boycott just McDonalds, in order for the boycott to be economically effective you have to do the same for both their subsidiaries and their parent company.

ever noticed how mcdonalds serves nothing but coke, taco bell only pepsi, KFC only pepsi, and so on? I think this is because the soft drink companies together own about 80% of the fast food joints in the nation. This makes it very hard to boycott one company, because regardless of how hard you try, unless you know about all of the corporate incest that goes on constantly, you can't tell who you're REALLY buying from.

I think it's probably the same with record companies. Geffen owns a lot of smaller labels, as does sony. Things like subpop and other labels have been bought long ago AFAIK, and the only real places that haven't been gobbled up are your tiny local labels that only have a dozen artists on them. And rest assured, if they get another dozen high-profile artists, they'll be gobbled too.

Re:boycott not reasonable

Whenever you start talking about a boycott, there's always some defeatists who crawls out of the wood work claiming that it won't work, that there's no point, that there's something better you should be doing. They often have fairly legal or economic arguments as to why it won't work.

The trouble is that they're wrong. Boycotts are indeed effective, at least sometimes. The fancy arguments about why you shouldn't bother can even be technically correct, and still be irrelevant, because all of these huge, formidible looking organizations are much like the proverbial school yard bully that acts tough but is really very insecure. These guys are always looking over their shoulder at public opinion, and even if your boycott is making a miniscule, barely detectable, dent in their bottom line, they're going to be really worried that you're going to do better next time, that the boycott may get even bigger. Even if there *is* no dent in their bottom line, they may get nervous that there's a sizeable group of people *talking* about a boycott.

Here's something I said here a while back about the Amazon boycott. Try doing an s/amazon/RIAA/ig on it:

The idea that Amazon is too big to be shot down by the slashdot crowd is similarly nutty. If you believe this, you've got an exagerated idea about how big Amazon is, and how small slashdot is, and you have no clue about how much leverage a small dedicated group of people have in running a boycott. It wasn't that long ago that the Nike corporation was forced to backpeddle on it's overseas hiring practices because of pressure started by Global Exchange (a small non-profit with a few dozen employees). Recently they've turned their sites (sights?) on the Gap Corporation for using what amounts to indentured servitude in a US territory, and the Gap's sales are now flat. The same people helped organize the protests of the WTO in Seattle (heard about this one, yes? Mass action organized by the internet... ha, what a silly idea, eh?).

Re:Companies owning companies

KFC and Taco Bell, along with Pizza Hut, used to be part of PepsiCo (which owns Pepsi, Frito Lay, and Tropicana). Several years ago, the three restaurants were spun off as Tricon Global Restaurants, so they're technically related, but not part of the same company. I don't believe that Coke and McDonalds have any official business relationship.

-B

Some info on Majors

Even if someone's not owned by a major label, a semi-indie will often have ties by distribution to a major. Plus, for a few years now, major labels have been creating scam indies that are wholly owned but marketed as an indie. Pretty dirty stuff. Maximum Rock-N-Roll had a great chart when they did the major label issue that had the infamous Albini article, plus Punk Planet has reported on it a bit. There might be some info on punkplanet.com.

Here's a some pretty current info [arancidamoeba.com]

Also, I believe the Southern distribution alliance is pretty clean of major ties. They handle Touch&Go, Dischord, Simple Machines, and other great indie labels. There's also an online CD/Vinyl retailer who seems to handle a lot of indie labels. The name's escaping me though because I only found them once through a broadcast.com banner. Outersound? Intersound? This ring a bell with anybody?

Re:Underground music

If you want to avoid RIAA and the majors, you'll have to dig very, very deep to find your music, and the music you'll find may actually not be very much to your liking. Most underground music is underground for a very good reason: it only appeals to a very small group of people. If you're into Zimbabwean goth played on bagpipes or Turkmeni grindcore, you could live a very happy, fulfilled life having nothing to do with the RIAA, but if your taste is slightly more mainstream, you'll have somewhat of a problem.

Not really. Almost all new classical music is completely independent of the major labels; in fact, most of the major levels have completely ceased their classical operations aside from cruft such as Charlotte Church and the like. Naxos, which is a highly respected budget label, puts out great quality new music for $6 / CD, though most of the classical minors are more expensive. Classical is also extremely well documented; it is easy to find out about the artists and what the best recordings are. Of course, it is also the most meaningful and emotion music in production!

Music such as folk and bluegrass is also almost completely independent of major labels (bluegrass, in particular, is perhaps the most commercially uncompromising music of the 20th century - it never sold out like all of the teen rebel music such as punk/industrial/ska/etc. did in the 80's and 90's).

Non-RIAA labels already suing Napster

TVT Records has sued Napster [livedaily.com]. According to their website [livedaily.com] they are one of the largest independent record labels in the U.S.

Plenty of indie artists on the Internet

Why not go to mp3.com and download music by indie artists there?

Non-RIAA Labels:

Try a few of these : (notable bands in parenthesis)

Dischord Records [dischord.com] : Independent for close to 20 years. (Minor Threat, Slant 6, Nation of Ulysses)
No Idea Records [noidearecords.com] : punk, hardcore, emo (Small Brown Bike, Hot Water Music)
Troubleman Unlimited [troublemanunlimited.com] : post-punk, post-hardcore, post-rock (Camera Obscura, Red Scare)
Jade Tree [jadetree.com] : all about the emo rock (the Promise Ring, Cap n Jazz, Jets to Brazil)
Lovitt Records [lovitt.com] : Indie Rock, Emo, some Electronic-tinged (try Milemarker, 400 Years)
K Records [olywa.net] : Indie, Folk, Other (Beck, Dub Narcotic Sound System, Sebadoh, IQU, Make-Up)
Kill Rock Stars [killrockstars.com] : Indie Rock (Bikini Kill, Sleater-Kinney)
Three One G [threeoneg.com] : crazed hardcore, No Wave, some electronic-type rock (try Black Cat #13, the Locust)
Ebullition [ebullition.com] : hardcore punk, some emo (try Orchid, Bread and Circuits, Reversal of Man)
HydraHead [hydrahead.com] : the best in metal and straight edge(Botch, Cave In, Soilent Green)
Relapse [relapse.com] : metal, hardcore, tough guy stuff. (Napalm Death, Exhumed)
Reptillian Records [reptilianrecords.com] : a variety of sounds, from garage rock to grindcore to rock'n roll (Page 99, Electric Frankenstein)
Revelation [revhq.com] : More hardcore and metal. (Rancid, Brandtson, Isis)
TrustKill [trustkill.com] : Tough guy stuff. (Poison the Well)

All guaranteed (as far as I know) to be RIAA free!

Josh Sisk

Buycott, not boycott

While I disapprove of the way the RIAA operates and most specifically how it "treats Napster," I don't think that a boycott of the RIAA would be productive. In fact, I think it would be counter productive. Napster seems to have the same take, and has organized a "buycott" [napster.com]. Instead of not buying music (the thing the RIAA says that Napster users do anyhow), there should instead be an INCREASE in spending on artists who support Napster. This shows the RIAA how much money they stand to lose by offending Napster users, as opposed to losing them money (something they already think they're doing.) Napster has posted a list [napster.com] of groups that are supporting Napster. Go out and buy more music today!

Ani

Well I still think the boycott idea is moronic, but I'll drop in the one I know:

Ani DiFranco's label, Righteous Babe, isn't listed on the membership list and I doubt it's a subsidiary of some other.

Independant Record Companies

These days I avoid the record stores completely and find my music online. My label of choice is Fat Wreck Chords [fatwreck.com]. It's a punk rock label that's managed to be extremely succesful without any corporate involvement. They charge $10 sor CDs including shipping and handling, which is a lot more reasonable than the $16-18 one would be charged elsewhere.

Just my little contribution to bringing the RIAA down... if you enjoy punk rock I'd give these guys a whirl... they even have full-length mp3's. :)

Cheers!

Re:Boycott all of them!

Since virtually all labels have spoken out against Napster as though it is the most evil thing ever, I think all labels should be boycotted. Even the Non-RIAA members artificially increase the price of CD's. All of them hold on to an almost brutal level of control over their music, and most of them stop producing music to make other bands more succesful.

Okay, you're one of the naive ones. But I'm not going to let this go unchecked. Not all non-RIAA members artificially increase the price of CDs - Dischord is a good example. Matador's prices to wholesale/distribution and direct are really reasonable as well. Most indie labels are okay with selling a few bucks cheaper because they want to keep customers happy. They know that the more you offer a customer, the more likely they are to come back. I know with Matador, I'm highly inclined to respect and listen to any artist on their label. I may not like all of them (Mecca Normal? gack!), but I'll give em all a try because Helium, Chavez, Pavement, etc, are all so good.

As for the brutal level of control - hey, they're a business. They have a finite amount of resources, and they have to decide what CDs to promote and how to do it. I think most of the labels that are non-RIAA are going to be sufficiently small that this really doesn't come into play. Matador pushes everything they release (except for singles, maybe) - they're not releasing 100+ records a year, so it's not a matter of only being able to promote 5 bands and hope they sell really well, and ignoring all the rest.

I have heard of virtually no label that says "Yes, take our music we appreciate the advertising" apart from a few isolated bands. Those who did seemed to assume that copyright didnt' apply at all, and stole Napsters logo just to make a profit. All labels are evil so boycott the lot

The reason you've heard virtually no labels say that is because it's really hard running an independent record label. It's even harder to make money doing it. So you're saying they should risk their chances at that so people can have things for free? These bands pay for musicians to spend weeks in the recording studios and such. They have office buildings. They mail records out. Things cost money. They're not in favor of shifting their business model to giving away stuff for free. Look how well it's working for most .coms.

The bands that have jumped on the Napster bandwagon for the most part seem really self-promoting. ie "We like Napster! We are a band of the people! Love us! Buy our CDs, on sale now!"

I personally run a very very very small record label. And yes, I use Napster. So it's hard for me sometmes to justify both sides. But not all record labels are evil by any measure. I personally work with my artists to ensure that what costs I can afford to cover get covered, I set up shows so people can see my bands, I mail promos all the time and try to convince people at college radio to play our stuff. It's hard work. But I do it for my love of music, particularly that of the people I work with. I'm hardly evil. Well, in that respect, anyway.

Now if someone comes along and wants to give away something that I'm charging money for on the grounds that we have too much money already, then I need to take some of my riches and buy a baseball bat to go upside their head with. Come on, guys! Not all people in music make as much money as Britney Spears. Hell, not all people in music get heard on your pop radio station. Take a wider view.

As for MP3s, yeah, we got em. I deal with my artists and try to get some fun, different, exclusive, whatever, stuff up on the web for download. And I offer up RealAudio files of our releases so people can try before they buy.

Sonic Therapy [sonictherapy.com]

So don't call us evil. Much.

Just buy used CDs

Someone else has already paid the devil for you. The money goes directly to the store you buy it from, nowhere else. Remember, your gripe is against the RIAA, not the retailers (unless you really are into Napster for the thievery) ;)

Eric

Re:Searching for an intelligent way to protest

So, not buying from them isn't going to hurt them, instead we should buy from them?

Not going to happen. Being able to pick and choose my music and directly support my favorite bands has changed the way I shop for music. I'll gladly pay for music, but only when it goes to the people who made it.

The RIAA isn't ever getting a cent of my money. Not because I'm actively boycotting them, but because I'm not going to buy music that they'll be selling, or in a way that they'll be selling.

Sure, they can lie and say that the drop in their sales is due to a bunch of things beyond their control, like evil hax0r d00d5 warezing songs, but they'll be wrong. They're going out of business slowly but surely because they're obsolete and they fear change. Nobody mourns the lack of buggy-whip companies in a world with cars. Nobody will mourn the lack of a physical media distributor in a world without physical media.

They can bitch and they can whine, but they're irrelevant. They can sue visible entities like Napster, but they can never touch me or the millions like me. Their SDMI initiative won't fly, it's simply another piece of incompatible hardware with stupid proprietary limits. Yawn. I'll keep doing business as I am now, buying MP3s directly or buying CDs from artists I support and MP3ing them. The only way I'll stop this will be to upgrade to a better free and open format when one comes along.

Don't boycott the RIAA, ignore them. They're obsolete and pointless.

But whatever you do, do *not* support them in any way. Don't "buycott"! What a fucking stupid idea... it's like sending Microsoft an extra few bucks when buying Windows, to support them in legal battles. You wouldn't have thought of trying to end Aparthied by *supporting* the old South African government!? It's a ridiculous idea. If you want the RIAA to go away, act like they already have.

Fat's sold out, check out G7

As has been posted above, Fat Wreck Chords is on the RIAA member list.

Bands like Propagandhi [fatwreck.com], who used to be on the Fat label, have moved off to start their own indie labels. Check out the G-7 Welcoming Committee [g7welcomingcommittee.com].

Buycott

well, napster has posted a Buy-Cott list on their web site of groups who support napster, and they recommend you buy the cds of the bands on the list even though these bands are on RIAA labels. some of them include Sunny Day Real Estate, Radiohead, and the Get-upKids. being as i'm a huge SDRE fan, i was happy to see them on the Buy list. as Napster is blocked from my corporate firewall, i am not sure of the exact link, but i think it's here [napster.com]. Buy these CDs! especially radiohead's OK Computer /the Bends and Sunny Day Real Estate's The Rising Tide. These are three of best cds ever made. and the bands support Napster.

there's tons of 'em

probably the reason you haven't yet seen a list is because nobody could possibly single-handedly compile one; there are so many independent labels out there in garages and basements that to actually compile a comprehensive list would be insanity.

i think a good idea would be to set up some sort of site that the record labels themselves could use to proclaim their lack of affiliation with the riaa... however, that could lead to a lot of serious effort too. i dunno.

Re:Ani

Also, indie-music.com [indie-music.com] has a big alphabetical list with links.

If you really care, file that list and RIAA's list and cross-reference them.

Re:Ani

I don't really know any of Ani DiFranco's stuff, but apparently, the following message adorns all Ani DiFranco Intellectual Property:

Unauthorized duplication, although sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing.

© Righteous Babe Records

What a great copyright notice, from an artist who actually WANTS people to distribute their music. Somehow it just makes sense.

Check out www.cdbaby.com

www.cdbaby.com [cdbaby.com] has a bunch of cool CD's (with audio sampls) that appear to be put out directly by the artists. I haven't bought anything from them yet, but check out their policies [cdbaby.net], and you'll see that there are definitely artists without labels on their site.

If you're trying to boycott the RIAA you should definitely check them out.

--Robert

tvt-a quick history

just because a label is indie doesn't mean that they are sweet and grandmotherly and innocent. TVT is an excellent example:

TVT got their start selling semi-legal tapes of old sitcom theme songs (TeleVision Tunes--get it?). when they got shut down for that, they put up a big fuss over how it was fair use etc. etc. fairly similar to the whole napster "well it's on the radio" argument, both in scope and ludicrous nature.

so TVT moved on to indie music, which at the time (~1979) was punk/industrial. they snapped up a little record shop in chicago called wax trax! and went at it. ministry was signed for a time, as was wire, i think. they were horrible to all their bands, mostly because they lied about having money (which they didn't) and about tour support (which they never gave).

the late eighties came, and with it trent reznor and NIN. he signed to TVT under the name nothing records. the idea was that NIN would release under nothing, as would other industrial bands. long story short (too late!) trent fought and fought TVT for control of his own music on his own label and nearly lost. hence the long delay between the release of broken and the downward spiral. he was moving himself over to a major, because they treated him better than his indie label.

so boycott TVT too! although they talk the talk, they act just as irresponsibly as any major label.

just a side note: what constitutes a "major label?" units shipped? number of signed acts? membership in the RIAA/"big 5?" this has never been made clear.

Searching for an intelligent way to protest

People seem to have picked boycotting as a reaction simply because it's the first thing that jumps at them-- Someone's selling something and we don't like their policies! Stop buying their stuff! Unfortunately, the RIAA is too far-reaching and the group they've actively offended is too small and specific for this to be the most effective form of protest. Since the RIAA is already of the opinion that these people don't pay for their music, a sharp decrease in sales is something that would jsut fuel their fire... if there even was a sharp decrease in sales. As is, a boycott would simply make a slight dip in their sales in the area that they're currently expecting one: giving them fuel for future reports where they can state that "as Napster became more high-profile, sales of RIAA music went down." Just what we need.

As has already been mentioned, Napster is promoting the idea of a "buycott [napster.com]," which is an excellent way of supporting their supporters (instead of punishing their adversaries) and demonstrating the buying power that Napster users have. A powerful statement, if it works. Even better, write to the heads of the record labels and TELL THEM that you're a music fan and you support Napster, that you buy music and would like them to support Napster, too. There are some more suggestions on Napster's site [napster.com], and here are some addresses to write to:
BMG
1540 Broadway
New York, NY 10036
Fax: [phone]
Strauss Zelnick

EMI Music Group
1290 6th Ave.
New York, NY 10104
Ken Berry

NMPA
711 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10017
Fax: [phone]
Edward Murphy

RIAA
1330 Connecticut Avenue N.W., Suite 300
Washington, D.C. 20036
Fax: [phone]
Hilary Rosen

Sony Music Entertainment
550 Madison Ave
New York, NY 10022
Fax: [phone]
Tommy Mottola
Michele Anthony

Time Warner
75 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10019
Fax: [phone]
Gerald Levin

Universal Music Group
70 Universal City Plaza
Universal City, CA 91608
Doug Morris