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GUI Research - Is it Still Being Done?

Posted by Cliff on Wed Jul 05, 2000 02:30 PM
from the stuff-to-think-about dept.
Davor Buvinic asks: "In my spare time I like to study about GUIs. Recently,I was amazed with the new design that I saw in the previews of the future MacOS X, until I discovered in theWeb that things like file dialogs attached to windows dated from the earliest prototypes from the Apple Lisa (July 1981). My question is: Is there any news in GUI design? The newest design I probed was Rob Pike's ACME user interface for programmers. Is anybody (individual or research center) working in a new GUI design? I mean a GUI for the mainstream, no immersive virtual 3D environments, that probably need a powerful Silicon Graphics to run." Have we done as much with the GUI as we possibly can, or are there other reasons behind the lack of technical innovation in most desktops?
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  • Re:GUIs are at a limit. by pegiron (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:34AM
  • Perhaps.. by pollutephot (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:34AM
  • by ryanr (30917) <ryan@thievco.com> on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:35AM (#955628) Homepage Journal
    You see them all the time in little Internet toys, and media programs. Look at the KAI graphics stuff for example. Look at any of the "skinnable" applets. I've seen some MP3 players that look downright weird.

    The problem is, I hate most of them.

    I'm afraid that GUIs (as they exist in the mainstream now) have been hard-coded into our brains. New GUIs have a backwards compatibility problem like you wouldn't believe; they have to be backwards compatible with people.

    Unfortunately, we've learned the current GUIs so well, that any major departure is just "wrong."

  • The KISS principle by Ho-Lee-Cow! (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:36AM
  • by damaged (60781) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:36AM (#955630)
    Check out this link [cmu.edu] to see what's going on at CMU's HCII. All sorts of wacky stuff...
  • TWIN by LiENUS (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:36AM
  • by linuxonceleron (87032) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:38AM (#955632) Homepage
    People like stability when it comes to how their work is done. If I were to sit down at a Mac and Win9x box and Linux running GNOME or KDE, they would contain many of the same ideals when it came to operating (icons, menus, windows...). I think you could sit any reasonably computer-aware person in front of any of these GUIs and they would be able to sit down and work. For a new style of GUI to become popular it would have to make the work of the user easier without having a high learning curve. Think of how long it took for people to change away from DOS to Windows, and most people didn't use Windows until at least version 3.0 because the original versions had many flaws. If there are new GUI paradigms (god I hate that word) being developed, it will be a long time before they are accepted. Also the new single-purpose 'internet appliance' market may start to change interfaces to something more simplistic that is instantly obvious how to use (think TV/Stereo here), but I doubt people would want such a simple interface for their computer.

  • by BoLean (41374) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:39AM (#955633) Homepage
    The flip side of this is that there has been essentially no breakthroughs in monitor development either. every couple of month some new story about reasonably priced flat panel monitors or 3D monitors appears, only to fade into obscurity. Maybe when desktop realestate gets bigger than 17" diagonal and more than 2d we'll see some novel approaches. In the end though "form follows function". Just as the shortest distance between two points is a straigt line.
  • helix code by crovax (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:39AM
  • by 11223 (201561) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:39AM (#955635)
    We've reached a level of a few comfortable paradigms. First of all, the web is a very powerful GUI idea for delivery of applications, and in its modern form has only been around for a few years. It's exploded faster than the original WIMP GUI concept did.

    Secondly, there's much refining being done in the area of the GUI. Just look at some of the enlightenment [enlightenment.org] screenshots to see what I'm talking about. Different, but very powerful. (Those screenshots have sucked more than a few new users into Linux!)

    Everything else has been a "refinement" process in the area of GUI research. So, here's my idea for a new GUI:

    One of the best features of the newest refined GUI's is customizeability - the ability to choose what the OS looks like. Let's take that to the maximum - a generic plugin-based system that lets skin authors completely change the feel of the OS. The User Interface would load plugin modules (swappable at will) that perform the following functions:

    • Task management - switching between windows on the screen.
    • File management - browsing the files on the hard disk
    • Program launching - starting up programs from some sort of menu
    • Menu management - if one is loaded, the active program's menus are displayed in this widget, ala MacOS X or NeXT.
    • Others I can't think of right now...
    This would allow users to completely change the look and feel of their desktop interface. The UI could switch from a convincing Mac clone to a Windows clone to a BeOS clone to a Palm clone to something completely new and uncharted in a matter of seconds! Of course, it would still be based on the same ideas of dialog, widgets, etc. as current interfaces, but it would be a step towards complete user-control of man-machine interaction.
  • New Scientist by grnarrow (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:40AM
  • Pie charts by Fizgig (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:40AM
  • have you ever by gtx (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:41AM
  • by joshv (13017) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:42AM (#955639)
    I think with the limitation of a 2D display with less than 100 dpi, we have approached the limit of what can reasonable be done with a modern GUI. The original GUIs came about as the result of cheaper raster based video hardware becoming available and supplanting the previous character based hardware.

    The attempts at 3D GUIs don't do anything for me, when the display really isn't 3D, and that icon in the distance is illegible because my screen's resolution sucks. We need better and radically different hardware before any major advances in user interface design can occur.

    -josh
  • Color reactance (Score:5)

    by FascDot Killed My Pr (24021) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:42AM (#955640)
    I read an interesting, online-only article at Linux Journal about a 18 months ago on a topic called "color reactance". Essentially it advocated (and partially demonstrated) how you could have programs set "traffic lights" (or window frame colors, or something) to indicate states. For instance, a program that needs attention could be set to flash yellow whereas one that is finished could flash green (or whatever).

    When I first say the Aqua screenshots, I thought Apple had done this. They have a trio of traffic lights on the upper right of every window. But it turns out they are just eye-candied versions of the old close/minimize/maximize buttons.
    --
  • raskin - humane interface by blackdefiance (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:42AM
  • New GUI by Carthain (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:43AM
  • Re:GUIs are at a limit. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:43AM
  • And another thing... by FascDot Killed My Pr (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:43AM
  • last I checked by sageFool (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:43AM
  • by namesAsh (88101) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:43AM (#955646)
    cool stuff. Here's a link for the UMD HCIL: [umd.edu]
  • 3D GUI's suck by piku (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:43AM
  • The Human GUI by benshutman (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:45AM
  • GUIs limited by input devices by evilj (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:46AM
  • Gui Research... (Score:3)

    by Panaflex (13191) <convivialdingo@yahoo. c o m> on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:47AM (#955650)
    It really depends.. it's kindof mushy.

    Most of the hard academic research on GUI's has already been "done." (Meaning that people going from government grants will find it hard to compete with some of the other new technologies)

    The most research is being done on 3D desktops. (Microsoft has one, Berlin, SGI, etc) that take the traditional file managers and twist and turn.

    MIT has a textual "GUI." It's really not so much a GUI as it is a different way to present large sets of data in a minimalist fashion. (Think the Matrix..it maps text on 3D curves. Books essentially "rotate" pages constantly... at least that's what I remember it as).

    Another minimalist was Rob Pikes 8 1/2 (used on the Plan9 OS). This reminds me of emacs on crack. But it is a very effective way of managine text content.

    But to be fair, people are pretty much in love with their buttons and menus et cetera. Most of the GUI work being done is implementations and fancifull type stuff.

    I'm on the implementation side. I'm working on getting GTK on the X server side. That way you shift the drawing operations to the server and keep the client happy just handling events and widget control. The amount of communications between processes will DRAMATICALLY be reduced. Plus it will be 100% backwards compatable.

    Then maybe I can convince someone to rewrite XIE into something more like imlib2 ;-)

    Pan
  • Georgia Tech - Graphics and Usability Lab by lef.forvrin (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:47AM
  • by q[alex] (32151) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:47AM (#955652) Homepage
    Don't forget the PalmOS, which while certainly not terribly original, was (IMHO) a good move towards solving UI problems in a 3 by 5 inch (or so) space.

    I think that GUIs _have_ been hard-coded into our brains. The Xerox PARC facility encountered that when they were designing their GUI/smalltalk stuff... people learn metaphor patterns, and tend to use those patterns (a paradigm, if you will) to interperet new information.
  • Archimedes Project (Score:3)

    by Obscura (10237) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:48AM (#955653) Homepage
    The fine folks over at the Archimedes Project [stanford.edu] are researching a bunch of stuff, new GUI designs included.
    The Total Access System project seeks to provide access to technology through a clean separation of the information to be accessed from the form of presentation required for individual users. The project is designing personal accessors that will talk to host computers and computer-based devices through infrared communications links. The accessors will thus become part of a three-way system, the Total Access System, that has been designed by Neil Scott. A complete TAS includes: an individualized accessor, an interface to a host computer or computer-based device, and a standardized link connecting them.
    They are looking for volunteers if you're interested in helping out. I met them on a list-serv I was subscribed to and their work is very interesting.
  • Not much going on, but here's a start by DiSanto (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:48AM
  • by Golias (176380) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:49AM (#955655)
    As long as STDIN is a keyboard and pointing device combination, and STDOUT is some kind of monitor, then the limits of our physical contact with the PC will demand that we use an interface built on pointing and typing. Most of what makes that kind of interface functional has been thought of, and the current paradigm is good enough that switching is not yet worth the effort.

    CLI's rely on human memory... we need to learn to speak the computer's "language", and often need to remember what the computer is currently up to. GUI's rely on our visual pattern recognition abilities. We "see" the commands we want to execute, and have a "finder" or "taskbar" to remind us what is going on. In both cases, the interface is driven by our choices of how we want to communicate with the system, and once you make that decision, a lot of the rest of the design is mostly asthetics.

    The change will come when an interface that is obviously better than typing and clicking comes along. Whatever it is, it will need to be enough of a step up to be worth learning. There have been hundreds of "better" keyboards, but they don't get adopted by people because they are not enough of an improvement on the crappy qwerty (or dvorak) that we already know how to use. The next step to succeed will most likely be something completely different than a keyboard, and it will introduce the need for a radiacally different UI.

  • if it ain't broke... by cara (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:49AM
  • by gfxguy (98788) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:49AM (#955657) Homepage
    We haven't reached the limit of what we can do with your standard 2D interface design. In fact, new things are being tried all the time, and it keeps coming back to 2 things:
    1. Every time you try something new, the mainstream complain that it isn't enough like the old, and

    2. Most changes are just to be differenct, to distinguish your UI from someone elses.
    The second thing results in crap like MS's horizontal file dialogs instead of vertical, and things like the quicktime interface which is an enigma to everyone that hasn't spent the time needed to figure it out. What do four dots mean again?

    The first thing is what keeps major overhauls of existing UI's from happening.

    I've done lot's of research into GUI design myself, and it boils down to: only design and use something new if it's going to make using the product easier. Unfortunately, many people nowadays (Apple, for example) go way off the deep end on design, with little respect for the user experience.

    There's lots of outdated concepts, too, like real world metaphors...why limit yourself to what some poor designer had to cram into a 15cm x 2cm area of a portable CD player?
    ----------

  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Gnatlie (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:50AM
  • Its not where the market is by nadador (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:51AM
  • GUI research is still being done. by Sangui5 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:52AM
  • the brain by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:52AM
  • GUIs by wishus (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:53AM
  • Re:The KISS principle by jmorse (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:54AM
  • The web killed the GUI by dolanh (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:55AM
  • HCII, VPL's and stuff by trefoil (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:55AM
  • It's not dead yet (Score:3)

    by dutky (20510) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:56AM (#955666) Homepage Journal

    While much of the basics of human interaction and GUIs was worked out years ago (at Xerox and Apple) there are still people thinking of better ways to do things. Check out Bruce Tognazzini's web site AskTog [asktog.com] for some coverage of this topic. He has tutorials [asktog.com] on user interface design, cogent criticism [asktog.com] of current GUIs, suggestions for improvements [asktog.com], as well as sundry and other essays [asktog.com].

  • Stuck (Score:3)

    by redhog (15207) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:56AM (#955667) Homepage
    We do invent new looks all the time, but no new feels. You have a huge set of different window managers and themes, each providing the same feautures.
    We are stuck in the desktop- and tools- and windows-methafors. You must start a tool (program) to edit your picture. You have folders, either as a tree, or as windows with icons that can be clicked to open new windows. You have windows which can overlay each other, but their placement is largely up to the user.
    There are ver few new things coming up. And the fresh air is old. Take a look at the The ROX Desktop [sourceforge.net] for example. A new and cool idea. Which is old.
    I think the majure problem is that people are spo used to how it works now, that they can not come up with something totally different any more.

    And to opose myself, there are some new ideas, like the PalOS, where you don't have files, and in particular, you don't have "save". You modify your text/picture/whatever directly. Nothing is "in RAM" and must be "saved". But that is one of the few new things I've seen...

    --The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
  • Here's one by lpontiac (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:56AM
  • People are still doing stuff by JebOfTheForest (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:57AM
  • multi plane monitors by jhittner (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:58AM
  • Re:The KISS principle by B'Trey (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:58AM
  • by rcm (71569) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:59AM (#955672)
    There's tons of good GUI research being done: The ACM CHI and UIST conferences over the past 10 years are full of good stuff that hasn't made it to production yet. It'd be great to see some of these ideas incorporated into open source projects.
  • 3d Replacement Shell for Win9x/NT's by FUNMerlin (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:59AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by scott@b (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:00AM
  • It's all in the icing by Weasel Boy (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:00AM
  • Re:The KISS principle by Kailden (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:01AM
  • Re:Physical computer by balbuzaro (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:01AM
  • is QWERTY inferior? by Keepiru (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:02AM
  • Next-gen GUI is really hard by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:02AM
  • Re:The KISS principle by Yunzil (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:02AM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by LoonXTall (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:03AM
  • Well, I am still doing it... by fudboy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:04AM
  • Re:Perhaps.. BeOS has done this already... by Philtho (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:04AM
  • Re:GUI models. by e7 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:06AM
  • Re:Color reactance (Score:3)

    by Coz (178857) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:06AM (#955685) Homepage Journal
    Yeah, but don't forget our color-blind brethren. I have a buddy who was on a review board for a product that used color-coded borders to indicate state of a document - informal, draft, released, revised, etc. Unfortunately, they all used about the same luminance - his red/green colorblind eyes couldn't tell that there was a difference.

    Then there are the all-the-way blind. I wonder how /. translates onto a Braille keyboard?

  • Plan 9 has a cool GUI known as 8.5 by by by (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:06AM
  • Why Not 3D (Score:3)

    by maraist (68387) <michael.maraistN ... n0spam.com minus> on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:07AM (#955687) Homepage
    Perhaps I'm naive here, but I don't see why you dismiss 3D as a GUI. You imply that serious graphics hardware is really necessary for 3D, but anymore, 3D support is standard, especially in the optimized forms such as Glide and Direct3D (I know, I'm a heretic for not promoting GL instead of these proprietary standards).

    In playing with Silicon Graphics machines I was not overly impressed with their GUI design. It had only a few tiny improvements, such as enhanced graphical directory navigation at the command prompt and the scaling of just about everything. Anymore, the prompt is being phased out. Hell, even in Linux, the "task-bar" is replacing more and more everyday command-prompt operations with mindless point and click. And forget about the prompt in windows. Also it wasn't too long ago that DirectDraw allowed graphics scaling on the windows platform.

    I've seen a couple interesting concepts utilizing 3D. The most profound (for me at least) was the perspective view. Namely for those of you, like me, that have window-itis (never less than 10 windows open at a time), only those windows in central view are fully sized and detailed, surrounding windows are visible though compressed / distorted (the actual method I think was to provide a geometrical box which you were looking into.. All non-selected windows were on the periphery of the box and thereby taking up less space).

    Perhaps you are thinking more along the lines of the movie Disclosure where you make use of a virtual reality helm and gloves. Computationally, VR is no different than standard 3D games (first person with multiple complex input devices). The only real complexity with the Disclosure model was the voice interface (which required AI), and possibly the scanning device that renders your avatar.

    VRML could have been the next big GUI, but it seems to have failed miserably, probably because it never found it's killer app. Theoretically we could have all mimicked our working environment, and then applied various database queries around certain triggers, and you could have achieved a low-res version of Disclosure.

    I think Apple's integration of PDF into their GUI is definitely a step in the right direction, though as you said, it's nothing new (NextStep had postscript built-in in a similar fashion). Unfortunately that's really only for show, and doesn't really provide too much additional functionality.

    Hell, the whole concept of the task bar is a remarkable advancement in my opinion. Anything that allows me to seamlessly manage multiple services on my computer (or to blend them into one big service) is advancement in the science. Additionally the treed directories that expand and collapse on command (with the ability to perform operations on the tree as if you were at a command prompt) is functional (though it has been around for well over a decade even in the DOS world a la Xtree Gold, etc). Intelligent Drag and Drop has been an essential addition to the GUI world (thankfully even the UNIX world is catching up on this respect). Recent advancements have been the utilization of html/xml to design dynamic GUIs. MS has been attempting to take this approach with their active desktop, though that seems to be too much fluff. Gnome, on the other hand, is doing a good job of using XML for this purpose.

    I think a generic (and more importantly open) rastering device, such as PDF along with the dynamic window modeling of XML could revolutionize graphics, if for no other reason than to simplify the process, and thereby open up GUI development to even non programmers (just look at how many web pages are maintained by clueless computer users). With the ever-growing complexity of new software, it is most important to device tools that simplify the development process which intern could attract people from other disciplines.
  • Re:And another thing... by mattbee (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:09AM
  • by BurnMage (69239) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:09AM (#955689) Homepage
    I think good ground for GUI research is in games these days. Games have room to be artistic and to try new things that a mainstream OS can't get away with. There are many types of game GUIs/UIs and the data or whatnot that games interface with is very diverse as well. I was just discussing with friends how ingeniously Blizzards has put together UIs. Have you seen Diablo I? Have you seen Diablo II, and how the improved on Diablo I's interface, and the new features they have added to it to make the game easier to play? In Diablo II it's childs play to customize your two mouse buttons, even during tense situations, and it is necessary during gameplay to do so. With a couple clicks you completely change the way you interact with the program. There is even a fully customizable keyboard map so you can choose something with just a keystroke.

    Starcraft, as well, I believe is ingeniously engineered. With only two mouse buttons and with maybe 50 unique 'units' to control, each with an average of 4 or 5 commands, the game is set so selecting a unit in the game and right clicking gives the unit an implicit command, and it depends on the situation. If you select a unit and right click on a space, he goes there. Right click on an enemy, you attack it; on a transport, you try and get inside it. Yet again, there are keybord shortcuts and buttons for about everything, with 'tooltip' help texts that tell you what a button does, with the keyboard shortcut highlighted. These help the situations that implicit commands don't cover.

    What about other games? What do people think about the UI in Everquest, for example. It'd 3d, but it doesn't have to be as responsive and Quake3, and so works differently and has different commands, things it expects from the user. Modern games are the petrie dishes for UI, AI, and 3D programming, but people are only usually looking at the 3D part.
  • Interface by Dungeon Dweller (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:11AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Rares Marian (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:11AM
  • Yes by Danse (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:11AM
  • by Sabalon (1684) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:11AM (#955693)
    But I don't really see anything new there. Okay...so enlightenment can look pretty, however, it is still the same thing - sliders, radio buttons, pushbuttons and little icons to close windows.

    Underneath, once I learn that the Whammy is actually the minimize button, we are back to the same old, same old.

    I don't think I'd call it refining as much as I'd call it dressing up.
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by pcbob (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:12AM
  • Re:It's not dead yet by q[alex] (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:13AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by grammar nazi (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:13AM
  • Re:Why no GUI revoloution? by mrfiddlehead (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:13AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by jmayes (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:14AM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by BoLean (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:14AM
  • Re:Pie charts by NYC (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:14AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Rares Marian (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:14AM
  • Improvements (Score:3)

    by jabber (13196) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:16AM (#955702) Homepage
    Actually, M$ has done quite a bit of study in the area of UI usability.

    One particular conclusion I recall is that the UP and DOWN buttons on a scrollbar should be on the same side of a scrollbar. Sounds weird, but that's mental inertia: The reason for this is that clicking on these buttons moves the window content by a line, while clicking inside the scrollbar moves contents by a page... The finely grained movement, coupled with the very small target area of the UP and DOWN buttons tend to be difficult for users who need to alternate between these buttons often. Placing them close to each other makes for one precision/proximal movement only, not a macro-movement along the scrollbar and a proximal movement to hit the button.

    This came out of M$'s Usability labs and is documented in an M$ Press book on UI design (forgot title). Of course when the M$ market drones got a hold of this idea, it mutated, and M$ products now have small PGUP and PGDN buttons on the bottom of the scrollbar, which is redundant since the scrollbar already provides these functions implicitly.

    Another 'betterment' (which M$ 'extended' just to be different) is the NeXT (and other UNICES) convention of putting the scrollbar at the left side of the window, instead of the right. The reason for this is that most languages are read from left to right, and the beginning of a line of text provides more information (lists etc) than the end of a line. Sliding the window off-screen to the right, to make space on the desktop, would be more usabe is you could still scroll, and still read the beginning of the lines of text contained in the window - hence, the scrollbar should be on the left, not right edge of the window. A similar case may be made for placing the horizontal scrollbar at the top of the text area instead of at the bottom.

    Much research is being done on UI conventions. So much so in fact, that the EU (European Union) has a Standards Document for UI designers that all companies selling software (in certain areas of software, i.e. safety and fiscal) need to comply with for reasons of non-ambiguity and legal responsibility. A friend in Germany will be forwarding this doc to me, and I'll make it web-available as soon as I receive it.

    The doc outlines things such as standard wording that is easily translated between languages, standard button layouts, the upper-bound for the number of controlls that should/may appear in a single interface container (dialog box etc), standard icons that appear on pop-up dialogs, color schemes... I'll know more after I actually read it.

    In the mean time, do a /. search for OS X. A recent criticism of the Aqua interface mentions many UI considerations that Apple people completely ignored when Aqua was developed.
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Reality Master 101 (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:19AM
  • Re:Stuck by Kaufmann (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:19AM
  • Microsoft Research (Score:4)

    by NYC (10100) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:19AM (#955705)
    Many of you may not like Microsoft's products or their marketing, but their research group does does some pretty inovative stuff.

    Check out the User Interface group [microsoft.com] which is part of the numerous research groups [microsoft.com] at Microsoft.

    There are many universities such as MIT, Georgia Tech, and CMU which do user interface research, but studies (conducted at CMU) have shown that it takes a long time for advances done in universties to reach actual products.


    --weenie NT4 user: bite me!

  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by TheTick (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:20AM
  • The future of computing by interiot (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:20AM
  • What do you want? by Weezul (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:21AM
  • Re:Georgia Tech - Graphics and Usability Lab by NYC (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:24AM
  • Re:Why Not 3D by seanmeister (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:24AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by ryanr (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:26AM
  • User interfaces are application specific by 91degrees (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:26AM
  • prototypes before apple lisa by peter303 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:27AM
  • The wacky world of depth. I still think a concept that is going to see its time come eventually is the 3d interface. Someone has already mentioned psDoom [sourceforge.net] and the Doom System Administration Tool [unm.edu]. At the time when the Doom SysAdmin program was on ./ for the first time, someone mentioned that humans have a much better spacial memory than they do for abstract data like text or numbers. I don't remember the number for the pizza guy, but I never forget that the phone book sits next to the phone. We're used to reasoning with relation to spacial objects, knowing what sort of things should be where. A 3d interface doesn't require the sort of complex "jack in your nervous system" schlock that always emerges from Cyberpunk novels; for a lot of people, something like Doom would be good enough. Just post some signs on a wall or something. Moving from room to room in a building is intuitive; it's something we do every day of our lives, from a very young age. A 3d interface takes advantage of our natural inclination to use sight as our primary sense. Figuring out the 'theme' of a room or a location is much easier for most people than figuring out and recalling something abstract, like what files end up in what directory. It's worth some research, I think, and I hope people continue to look into it.

    "Sweet creeping zombie Jesus!"
  • Visual Shell Interface... by Slicker (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:28AM
  • Some references (Score:5)

    by Kaufmann (16976) <rnedalNO@SPAMolimpo.com.br> on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:29AM (#955716) Homepage
    Off the top of my head...

    • Squeak [squeak.org], a Smalltalk-based language/OS/IDE/VM developed by Disney. Specifically, try to find stuff about Morphic there; it was born in Self, a prototype-based (classless) relative of Smalltalk, but it's been adopted officially as Squeak's UI system. It's pretty innovative, taking the approach of representing all objects graphically on screen through the notion of "morphs".
    • ETH Oberon [oberon.ethz.ch], another integrated language/OS hybrid, with a very different UI with some interesting ideas.
    • Gentner and Nielsen's amazing article The Anti-Mac [acm.org], which, by starting out with the goal of violating all the reasoning behind Apple's Human Interface Design Guidelines, ends up with a very interesting - and very implementable in the near future - UI design for high-performance workstations.

    So, no, GUI research ain't dead. ("It's pining for the fjords." :))

  • yes there is, but mostly hand held by [verse]Eskil (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:30AM
  • Mac OS was biggest jump by peter303 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:30AM
  • GUI Research by JPrice (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:32AM
  • by Kaufmann (16976) <rnedalNO@SPAMolimpo.com.br> on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:32AM (#955720) Homepage
    Some counterproof: The Anti-Mac [acm.org] (by Gentner and Nielsen, so you'd better listen!)

  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by ryanr (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:32AM
  • Periods by CAIMLAS (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:34AM
  • A| Maya uses pie charts by Mindjiver (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:36AM
  • 3D immersive IS mainstream by dazedNconfuzed (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:38AM
  • we need new things by Jefe (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:38AM
  • Alternate Display Methods by QuarterSauce (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:39AM
  • Re:It's all in the icing by zorgon (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:39AM
  • by adubey (82183) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:41AM (#955728)
    A lot of posters here make references to CHI (Computer-Human Interface) research groups at various universities. This just skims the surface. (Do a google search for "computer human interface" or "human computer interface" and follow any of the many links you'll find).

    Is GUI innovation dead? Well, one of the things CHI people are working on are ways to improve GUI design. However, as is sadly too common, there is a huge barrier between what academics find and what is adopted in industry.

    Remember: although Apple did do a *lot* of original work with GUIs, the core ideas came from academia (Even the Xerox PARC team were former students of Doug Englebart, the Stanford researcher who laid the important groundwork).

    But where are the bold, new, designs? Why do all the improvemnts still look like dialog boxes and buttons?

    Well, there may be hugely innovative stuff yet to be done - but the field is old by computer science standards. Most of the major ideas of how to get humans with keyboards and mice to interact with computers have already been done.

    So does this mean *all* UI innovation is done? Nope. The old hardware assumptions - the human had a keyboard and mouse, the computer had a video display (and maybe a sound system) - will be overturned.

    You will be able to use your eyes and hands to let the computer know what you want. Or, if that isn't accurate enough, you can still use the mouse. You can speak when that's more efficient, or type if typing would be faster (For things like "(" or "{" or "["). If your finger and eyes aren't accurate enough to point, go ahead and use the mouse.

    All of these new ways of interacting with computers will lead to new ways of presenting data, and new ways of allowing users to modify data. The innovation won't be in GUIs alone, but a combination of GUIs with newer input/output devices.

    Don't ask about innovation in GUI design, ask about innovation in human-computer interfaces overall.
  • Lifestreams by HP LoveJet (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:41AM
  • Re:It's not dead yet by weatherboy (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:41AM
  • Re:Color reactance by pjpII (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:44AM
  • Squeak! by nerdwarrior (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:46AM
  • Re:Pie charts by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:47AM
  • Take my mouse by slickwillie (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:48AM
  • What comes after the GUI? by Bruce Perens (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:48AM
  • Re:The KISS principle by daviddennis (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:49AM
  • Re:is QWERTY inferior? by jchristl (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:49AM
  • by davevr (29843) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:51AM (#955738) Homepage
    User interface research is alive and well! Check out the proceedings from some of the larger user interface conferences, such as UIST, CHI, or CSCW (www.acm.org/sigchi [acm.org]).

    There are lots of market reasons why a non-WIMP mainstream user interface is unlikey to emerge. Essentially, the WIMP interface works well enough for doing productivity-style applications with a screen, mouse, and keyboard.

    Future interfaces will come when they are needed to support future capabilities. Look for new input/output technologies and new form-factors to usher in radical changes - speech input/output, vision, etc., will reshape the user experience in the next decade. In addition, expect that future user interfaces will have an increased recognition of the social and emotional functions that our computing devices are being asked to serve. (and no, I am not talking about Bob...)

    - davevr
    -====
    Open Source Virtual World's Toolkit! ==> http://www.vworlds.org [vworlds.org]

  • Re:Color reactance by Tower (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:52AM
  • by density (191241) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:52AM (#955740)
    For a new style of GUI to become popular it would have to make the work of the user easier without having a high learning curve.

    Yes.. and it would have to be as revolutionary as the PARC GUI we all use today. I think we can reasonably say it won't be a WIMP (windows, icons, menu, pointer) interface - there are too many people thinking inside that box. The key invention was not the window, but the pointer "floating" above everything else. The pointer inspired mode-less programmg. The next interface revolution will involve a similar move outside the box and a host of resultant style shifts; with the PARC gui came event-driven programming, etc. In other words, anything less than such a shift is not a revolution but marketing hype.

    desktop metaphor? I thought it was the prison metaphor.. I've been trying to telnet out..

  • Re:window frame colors by pgroebner (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:53AM
  • by sela (32566) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:53AM (#955742) Homepage

    There were several posts before raising the question: "Do we need a new GUI?" thats a good question anyone trying to develop new GUI should ask.

    I personally don't accept the claim we reached perfection. Even without introducing new input/output devices (which is also part of GUI research), there is always room for improvement. The question is: what do we need to improve. But one preliminary question is: why do we need a GUI?

    GUI gives us a standard way to communicate with the computer. In a way, it is kind of a language. As such it needs to achieve two goals: One: it should provide a standard way to communicate with our applications. We need to learn one language to use the GUI, and not a different language for each application (kind of like learning new language in order to chat with each new person you meet). Second: be as efficient as possible. A GUI should not stand in the way of the user.

    So, how do current GUI scores in those two areas?
    It does seem as current GUI does provide a coherent way to communicate with all applications, which is fairly easy to learn, but it can improve in several aspects here:
    1. Cover more aspects of the UI - some aspects are currently not covered by the GUI, that may be included.
    2. Simpler/easier to learn GUI. You may wonder if it can get any easier than it is, yet for some people that never touched a computer it still looks rather complicated. I'm not sure simpler/minimalist=easier, though. What can be simpler than a VCR interface? Yet how many people would never learn how to program a VCR. Maybe easier means make it closer to the way we communicate with other people ...
    3. Make it customizable - in other words, let the GUI adapt itself to you, instead of letting you adapt yourself to the GUI.

    As for making the GUI efficient, there is a lot to achieve as well. We all know using keyboard shortcuts is a lot easier than using the GUI features. Can we improve here? Can we combine intuitiveness with efficientcy?

    I don't think 3D GUI really address any of those questions. It looks neat, but thats it. Any other ideas? There could be. If you want to invent something new, just:
    1. Be creative.
    2. Forget anything you know about current GUIs
    3. Think about easier communication, not about neat look.

  • And so many violate it. by sulli (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:53AM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by Detritus (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:55AM
  • Litestep, the do it yourself GUI by ChrisTower (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:56AM
  • by EnderWiggnz (39214) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:00AM (#955746)
    we really have to stop forcing user's to bend their actions and thought patterns around our implementations.

    The very real problem with current user interfaces is that they still force people to become "computer Literate" which really means that they have to learn nuances and terminology and procedures that the inner workings of a computer use.

    Its not "natural". File systems, databases, MP3 catalogs, are all differently organized IRL than on a computer.

    Lets look at music. Where is your "Britney Spears" CD? Me? Mine's in my car, in the elbow rest in the front seat.

    My mp3 files are on portman@grits:/home/ender/music/mp3s/annoyingmusic /britney/oopsididitagain

    The mp3 files are "organized" in a manner that only an incredibly anal person would organize their CD's. How many people do you know have all of their CD's labelled, catagorized, alphabetized, and all in the same spot.

    The point here, is that the computer gives you all sorts of information pertaining directly to the MP3's, but none of it is really helpful to someone not computer literate.

    If I were to tell you to go into my car, on the front seat, look for the jewel case with the sexpot on the front, and bring it to me, how many "normal" people would be able to find it as compared to telling someone to find it on my computer.

    Currently, computers are great at storing data, but not at describing the data in real terms. Most of the time we categorize items in terms of things that have nothing to do with the data contained, but we limit ourselves with storing data on a computer only by the actual data items - part number, ISBN, whatever, and not things that are inately helpful.

    Until a better file/data system is divised, the UI will not improve.

    As a matter of fact, the typical user should not need to know what a "file" is or a "database". They just want to listen to music, write a term paper for Biology class, email Aunt Helga, look at pr0n on the web, play a game, whatever.

    But notice, these things were not "create a file in MS Word format that will contain my biology report". We may think in terms of files and data, but they think in terms of actions and events.

    We shouldnt force people to think like computers.

  • Code GUI by oJ_ (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:01AM
  • CHI research at my lab by jordanda (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:02AM
  • Color reactance or Berlin by MrEd (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:03AM
  • Shred the GUI you design monkeys! by demo9orgon (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:05AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by ichimunki (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:06AM
  • Re:What comes after the GUI? by Kaufmann (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:07AM
  • by nellardo (68657) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:08AM (#955753) Homepage Journal
    There is certainly research being done in user interfaces, even ones that aren't 3D. Some general areas include the following:
    • Speech. See Portico [genmagic.com] for a real commercial product with pervasive use of a speech UI (if only the smarts were on my Newton....)
    • Agents. Lots of work being done on how to make "smarter" user interfaces. Just do a query on any big search engine. Brenda Laurel's seminal Computers as Theater [amazon.com] is a prime example.
    • Information visualization, [amazon.com] some of which is 3D but Edward Tufte's [amazon.com] books are a well-known exception.
    • CSCW, aka Computer-Supported Collaborative Work, including shared whiteboards and the like.
    • Not to mention video conferencing, the web itself, video games, etc.

    Completely new paradigms are also being worked on - Ken Perlin's Pad [acm.org] is one good example, as is David Gelertner's Lifestreams. [mirrorworlds.com]

    PDA intercases, at least the better ones, are also an area of active research. WinCE is mostly a scaled-down WIMP UI, but the Newton is not. The Newton makes pervasive use of gestures (and not just handwriting - even cut, copy, and paste), as well as sound, animation, and a lack of anything resembling a desktop, "saving" files, or even files at all at the user level.

    General references to UI research include Ben Schneiderman's textbook [amazon.com] (good for learning just how complex the field is) and Baecker et al's collection [amazon.com] (which has some of the recent results) and the pages of SIGCHI, [acm.org] the ACM's [acm.org] Special Interest Group for Computer-Human Interaction.

  • Re:Lifestreams by Kook9 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:08AM
  • OS/2 WPS (Score:3)

    by Detritus (11846) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:11AM (#955755) Homepage
    The OS/2 Workplace Shell had a nice, advanced GUI. Somewhere I have an IBM book (CUA?) that described the ideas and principles behind the new GUI. Everything was supposed to be document centered. If you needed a new spreadsheet, you dragged a new spreadsheet from a spreadsheet template icon to the desktop and then double clicked on it. You didn't directly run a spreadsheet program. Everything was an object and you could right-click for the object's methods and properties. Microsoft stole some of the elements of the GUI when they created Windows 95.
  • Re:The KISS principle by tps12 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:11AM
  • Re:Improvements by elint (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:13AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by grammar nazi (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:13AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Phredrick Dobbs (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:14AM
  • Re:Pie charts by cpt kangarooski (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:15AM
  • What's wrong with current guis by odysseus_complex (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:15AM
  • Oberon by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:15AM
  • Re:Pie charts by generic-man (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:16AM
  • Re:is QWERTY inferior? by mattc (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:16AM
  • Re:Color reactance by generic-man (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:18AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Greg_Girty (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:20AM
  • Re:raskin - humane interface by mlosh (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:20AM
  • by matthewd (59896) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:22AM (#955768)
    Something clicked while reading the AntiMac page.

    The Trashcan/Recycle Bin metaphor should be extended. When you empty your trash can, the contents should be placed in Dumpster on your LAN. If you realize that you've deleted a file that you needed, you can go dumpster diving. Of course the LAN will have a twice weekly pickup, so if the garbage truck has already come, you'll have to travel to the Landfill (a tape/CD-RW archive of deleted files) to retreive your file.

    Somehow, it seems kind of fitting to have a Dumpster icon appear in a Windows NT/2000 server window under Network Neighborhood, and a Landfill icon when you click on Entire Network.
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by Garak (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:23AM
  • Re:Why Not 3D by Ricofencer (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:23AM
  • We've got all the parts... by Keith Russell (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:25AM
  • Re:Litestep, the do it yourself GUI by seanmeister (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:26AM
  • Immersive 3D and Wearable by proteuskor (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:29AM
  • And function follows technology by davebooth (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:29AM
  • by Junks Jerzey (54586) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:29AM (#955775)
    The most disturbing things about Liunx GUIs is that the architects--and I hesitate to call them that--are not paying attention to any research or good advice. There are a number of good books and online resources about GUI design, and many of them go off in very different directions than Windows. So, yes, there is research going on and there are alternatives, but no one is listening. "Gotta clone Windows!" is the battle cry.

    Two good examples are the Genera environment from Symbolics and the system software of the Apple Newton. The latter of these is astounding. It does away with a filesystem, and is based on scraps of information that are indexed and compressed on the fly, invisible to the user. Lisp Machine fanatics can tell you about Genera.

    The biggest flaw of KDE and GNOME is that they aren't designed to solve any particular problem. They're just nebulous environments with doodads and gadgets. KDE, for example, seems to have been developed solely to allow people to tinker with and customize KDE. And what a lot of effort and code has gone into a project without a real point.

    It would be nice to have a GUI that was more fitting for the small and well-engineered Linux kernel. A 1970s terminal window misses the mark. So does a crufty, minimalist interface sitting on top of X Windows. Are there any real alternatives besides the jump to KDE and GNOME?
  • IMHO: non-visual I/O needed! by JCMay (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:30AM
  • Sixteen years... by ChristianBaekkelund (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:31AM
  • Re:Color reactance by FooManChuYouMoo (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:31AM
  • Re:Stuck (Score:3)

    by dmccarty (152630) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:34AM (#955779)
    Thing is, it's very much incompatible with a file-oriented paradigm (and therefore with the Unix philosophy, amongst others).

    I'm fairly familiar with the PalmOS, and I have to say that it isn't as incompatible as you might think. Palm implements "files" as databases, and file handles as individual database records. What the PalmOS doesn't handle is a FAT, and only recently did the OS address things like memory fragmentation issues and unique record ID's.

    The positive side of this is that once a user taps the "OK" or "Done" buttons on a screen, data is written to memory. This is why crashes are so rare on Palms, and why if a crash occurs, data isn't lost. If only "file" handling on other OSes (Win32, mostly) were as seamless.

    One of the best things IMO about the Palm paradigm ("zen of Palm" for those who want to be catchy) is that the degree of orthogonal persistance is left up to the applications, and isn't dictated by the OS. So an application remembers where a user last left off, but doesn't have to transport them back to the same screen the next time the program was run. However, the illusion of running apps simultaneously is complete when an application resumes exactly where it was exited. (The preferences panels do this, merging N panels into what appears to be a single app.)

    This is why it really didn't catch up in most environments.

    After using the PalmOS to write notes, etc. one wonders why data has to be lost at all when a program crashes. However, I'll admit that this way of doing things becomes much, much more complex as the file size and application size increase. It's one thing to persistantly track a 4K memo, but another thing entirely to try it on a 20MB 3DMax model or a 60MB Director movie.
    --

  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by MoonPilgrim (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:35AM
  • Re:And function follows technology by Golias (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:36AM
  • Re:Color reactance by mjg (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:40AM
  • Horizontal File Dialogs? by KlomDark (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:41AM
  • Re:Not to mention monitors by synaptic-impulse (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:42AM
  • Disappearing karma by haggar (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:45AM
  • progress, opportunism, and tools by jetson123 (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:45AM
  • Re:Pie charts (Score:5)

    by SimHacker (180785) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:49AM (#955787) Homepage Journal
    First, I'd like to say that I'm really happy to see the pie menus in Gnome -- great work!!!

    Unfortunately, there are a couple of stupid reasons why pie menus aren't widely used. One is technical and one is political.

    The technical one has been the lack of plug-in component architectures that allows new widgets like pie menus to be integrated into new and pre-existing applications. The other is that companies like Alias/SGI are abusing the patent system to discourage their competitors from using useful techniques like pie menus.

    Some of the technical problems have finally been solved for Linux and X11! Thanks a lot to everyone who contributed.

    NeWS took a stab at solving of those problems a while ago. You could download piemenu.ps to the NeWS window server, and replace all the linear menus in the system with pie menus, and download pietab.ps and replace all the window frames with tabbed window frames, that let you drag the tab anywhere around the edge of the window, and pop up optimized window management pie menus.

    "Bring to front" was up, "Push to back" was down, the "Stretch edge/corner" submenu had 4 corners and 4 edges in the appropriate direction, so you could mouse ahead into the pie menus very quickly once you learned them, etc. Pie menus are great for window management, since the tasks are so spatial and you use them so often, you soon learn to mouse ahead very efficiently, it saves you a lot of time, and is very reliable.

    The litmus test for a pie menu window manager is that you should be able to reliably start up programs and manipulate windows, even while the window system is busy starting up, paging and thrashing virtual memory, and only slugishly responding to input events. Mouse ahead is that good! Pie menus must be very careful how they synchronize and handle input events, never dropping any mouse clicks on the floor!

    All that PostScript pie menus source code I wrote is freely available, but only runs on NeWS, which would be more effort than it is worth to resurrect.

    When NeWS died and I had to start use X11 on a regular basis, I hacked pie menus into one of the window managers (that I called "piewm"), so I could use them to control the windows and run programs without going crazy with frustration at linear menus. That source code is also freely available, and it probably still works ok. But the code is not very reusable or up to date, since the X11 window manager is monolithic and does not use any plug-in component framework. It would be better to start with the following code instead.

    When I ported SimCity Classic to Unix in 1992, I used the TCL/Tk toolkit, and implemented a Tk pie menu widget for the game, to select between city editing tools (bulldozer, road, residential zone, etc). I distributed the source code for the TCL/Tk widget for free, but it was not widely used in other applications, because it required a programmer to integrate the C and TCL source code into another program, then recompiling and relinking. At the time, TCL/Tk did not have a dynamically loadable component framework.

    Microsoft has developed OLE (aka ActiveX) to solve this problem. It allows components written in any language to be loaded dynamically at run time and integrated with any other language, and it allows programmers as well as more casual interface designers to plug components together and configure them with property sheets.

    I implemented an ActiveX pie menu control, so that pie menus can be used on web pages and in other Windows applications. The source code as well as the binary is freely available. Now it is quite easy for other people to integrate ActiveX pie menus into their own applications and configure them to their liking.

    I've used ActiveX pie menus as a vehicle to experiment with all kinds of different layout and interaction styles. They've got lots of property sheets to set all the various modes and attributes, and you can type in a nested submenu tree as an indented text outline.

    I implemented graphical menu items, but I still want them to be animated. A while ago I started adding the ability to read and write nested pie menu specifications as xml. I wanted to add all kinds of other features, but there needed to be an easy concise way to read, write and configure them all. I finally realized that I had hit a brick wall with ActiveX, in the face of all the complexity and things I wanted to be able to do with pie menus, compared to what could be done on a web page with dynamic html.

    I want each menu item to be any dynamic html object, like a movie, or a java applet, or an ActiveX control. And I want the graphics and interactive feedback to exploit the full capabilities of dynamic html, like making the point size of the label grow continuously larger as you move the cursor into the slice.

    I realized that it was going to be impossible to play keep-up with the capabilities of a web browser by adding feature after feature to my little ActiveX control, and what I really needed was for pie menus to be specified in xml, and implemented inside the web browser using dynamic html on the web page itself, instead of using a shrink wrapped plug-in control that opens and draws its own windows, but can't interact with the rest of the web page.

    So I have basically shelved the ActiveX pie menu, and decided to rewrite pie menus in JavaScript and dynamic html, if I ever get around to it, and if the browsers ever get around to supporting dynamic html.

    In the mean time, I have been working on the political problems that have kept pie menus and other useful techniques from being widely used.

    I was at the computer game developer's conference several years ago. Since I was using 3D Studio Max at work, I stopped by the Kinetix booth, and asked them for some advice integrating ActiveX pie menus into their 3D editing tool.

    They told me that Alias had "marking menus" which were like pie menus, and that Kinetix's customers had been requesting that feature, but since Alias had patented marking menus, they were afraid to use pie menus or anything resembling them for fear of being sued for patent infringement.

    I told them that sounded like bullshit since there was plenty of prior art, so Alias couldn't get a legitimate patent on "marking menus".

    The guy from Kinetix told me that if I didn't believe him, I should walk across the aisle and ask the people at the Alias booth. So I did.

    When I asked one of the Alias sales people if their "marking menus" were patented, he instantantly blurted out "of course they are!" So I showed him pie menus on my laptop, and told him that I needed to get in touch with their legal department because they had patented something that I had been working on for many years, and had used in several published products, and I didn't want them to sue me for patent infringement.

    When I tried to pin him down about what exactly it was that they had patented, he started weasling and changed his story several times. He finally told me that Bill Buxton was the one who invented marking menus, that he was the one behind the patent, that he was the senior user interface researcher at SGI/Alias, and that I should talk to him.

    So I called Bill Buxton at SGI/Alias, who stonewalled and claimed that there was no patent on marking menus. He said he felt insulted that I would think he would patent something that we both knew very well was covered by prior art. I told him that companies try to made illegitimate patents all the time, and that I did not mean to insult him by repeating to him the misinformation that his marketing people were spreading around the computer industry, in his name.

    I tried to explain how Alias's FUD had adversely effected the user interface design of 3D Studio Max, in spite of user requests, but he did not care about 3D Studio Max, since Kinetix was his competition. I asked him whose side he was on, the users or the patent lawyers.

    He claimed to be on the side of the users, since he is such a well known user interface researcher, but I believe he has totally sold out to the point of abusing the patent system for profit, and is in the thrall of SGI corporate lawyers. Users beware.

    A year or so later, I ran across a marking menu patent issued to Alias, that is probably the one the Alias sales people were spreading rumors about. Now it all makes a lot more sense in perspective.

    At the time I found out about it from Kinetix, Alias had just applied for the patent on marking menus. The Alias sales people had heard about it, but could not keep their mouths shut, even though there were damn well supposed to. So they repeatedly spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt by bragging about this PENDING patent that they really didn't know much about. The only reason I ever learned about it, was that their FUD was so successful if effected Kinetix's plans.

    When it got back to Buxton that they had leaked news of the pending patent to Kinetix, which was supposed to be secret, he was furious, but certainly wouldn't tell me what was really up, so he took his anger out on me instead. He wanted to keep me in the dark, so I didn't go to the U. S. Patent Office and inform them of all the prior art that was conspicuously missing from his patent. But I'll bet he was sure proud that the leak about the patent successfully discouraged Kinetix's plans to put marking menus into 3D Studio Max. It's a textbook example of successful FUD!

    Anyway, I did not let that discourage me from my long term plan of incorporating pie menus into a mainstream product (The Sims from Maxis). That is the only way that a lot of people will ever be able to see them and get used to the idea.

    Now, when the users of a program like 3D Studio Max demand a feature like pie menus, companies like Kinetix will not be fooled by FUD spread by corporations like Alias/SGI. They will realize that their kids play a game that has pie menus, and they seem to work ok, so there must not be anything wrong with using them for a 3D graphics editing program.

    -Don

    Pie menu web page:
    http://www.catalog.com/hopkins/piemenus [catalog.com]

    Notes from a talk about Pie Menus I gave to BayCHI at Xerox PARC:
    http://catalog.com/hopkin s/piemenus/NaturalSelection.html [catalog.com]

    A description of ActiveX pie menu features:
    http://catalog.com/hopk ins/piemenus/PieMenuDescription.html [catalog.com]

  • Re:The KISS principle by Glamatron (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:49AM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by Bingo Foo (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:50AM
  • in case anyone's wondering... by grammar nazi (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:50AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs (here's a new idea) by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:53AM
  • Re:No one will probably read this, but... by outlier (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:53AM
  • Re:Pie charts by mjg (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:55AM
  • Re:Pie Menus by SimHacker (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:55AM
  • Check out flashchallenge.com by CaptainDrewle (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:56AM
  • Re:Waiting for new hardware by captainmikee (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:56AM
  • Yet another car-computer anaolgy. by SparkyMartin (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:57AM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by Garak (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:57AM
  • The two notable "paradigms" associated with GUIs are of:
    • WIMP - Windowed Interface with Mouse Pointer

      This "model" has become fairly much dominant, and continues to undergo various forms of "tweaking," lately with everyone going gonzo over Themes. [themes.org]

      Unfortunately, major changes require either nuking the whole thing and starting from scratch, which is a lot of work, or else making systems of more and more byzantine complexity to operate.

      The latter is where adding additional "stuff-to-click" takes us. Every added toolbar results in another "hieroglyphic" language, moving us towards ancient Egyptian rather than anything modern. (The McLuhan "Laws of Media" strike again...)

    • MVC - Model/View/Controller

      The more "intelligent" sorts of changes don't necessarily involve increasing the visible complexity, but rather trying to split systems more clearly into this paradigm of designing, somewhat separately, an underlying model, a set of controller functions to control the object, and then some form of "front end," or "view."

      It's hardly new; Smalltalk and NeXTStep promoted the MVC "view of the world" umpteen years ago, and the problem really is that the ad-hoc GUI construction systems have so often conflated M, V, and C together that many GUI applications wind up as jumbled sets of functionality.

      It may be that introducing things like Glade User Interface Builder [pn.org] along with libglade , to encourage keeping "controller" stuff in once place, GNOME-print, [gnome.org] Gnome Canvas, [gnome.org] DPS for XFree86, [sourceforge.net] and Display Ghostscript [aist-nara.ac.jp], ReportLab, [reportlab.com] providing "view" tools, and CORBA, [hex.net] providing separation of "model," may provide a direction to clearly separate these functions so that GUIs will be less confused.

    None of this represents dramatic, overnight change, and I'm not sure that that's a bad thing.

  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Dinosaur Neil (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:59AM
  • What has changed such that we need a new UI? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:00PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by burris (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:03PM
  • Re:Color reactance by / (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:04PM
  • Re: Comfortable paradigms by Pingster (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:05PM
  • Re:Pie charts by Fizgig (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:08PM
  • Sure there's work being done by Goonie (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:10PM
  • 3D Environment with 2D Interfaces by Just Swing It (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:10PM
  • Re:And so many violate it. by Darchmare (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:10PM
  • Remote controls.... by vasi (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:11PM
  • obviously a joke by mplex (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:14PM
  • Re:is QWERTY inferior? by outlier (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:18PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Cuthalion (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:20PM
  • Re:Waiting for new hardware by Cuthalion (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:27PM
  • by CR0 (22574) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:32PM (#955814)
    true, very true. and this is how i see it....

    speech. ok, so you have heard that before, but current speech technologies use a monitor... why?

    the new gui will all but disappear visually... i will have many many "panels" throughout my house. some on walls, some handheld (but bigger than the palm pilot, some the same size) and some on appliances. my "computer" will be cased in a closet somewhere, and i will walk around the house asking my computer to do things.... like, " computer, please display the current weather sat image on this handheld" and poof.. there it is.

    "computer, what is the price of ram today at egghead.com" (a voice echos, 15$ per GB, sir)

    "computer, please dial mom" (mom says hello through household stereo speakers, only in the room i am in)

    "computer, do i have all the ingrediants for 'brian's pizza recipie #4'" (computer answers no, you still need cheese) (ie, it remembered i asked before... arg.. silly me)

    "computer, please find which channel is playing the blue jays game, and display it on that wall display" (i point, and the game appears)

    see, these are all functions that we can do with computers today, but require a lot of effort on our part. ie, all current groceries in a database, a tv-tuner and tv-out card manually set up. etc, etc.

    the "GUI" essentially disappears. as does the manual work.

  • thats why unix sucks for beginners by mplex (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:32PM
  • Re:What comes after the GUI? by Bruce Perens (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:33PM
  • We shouldnt force people to think like computers.
    I agree with this, but I think it's also important not to take it to far. Things that falsely mimic the real world are not helpful. My computer "desktop" is really only vaguely like an actual desktop. To extend the metaphor into drawers and what-not would be stupid -- drawers happen to be useful physical ways to keep objects, but they are lousy ways to keep data.

    Many of the things around us are not particularly intuitive. If you really think about the interfaced involved with driving a car, it's very non-intuitive. You press things with your foot to stop and go. You twist something to change direction, but that change is dependant on speed, direction, and how much you've already turned the wheel. It's awful. But, with some practice, nearly everyone is able to figure it out.

    What we should do with computers is to create a simple set of fundamental ideas which combine in powerful ways. These are the abstractions which people can use to do things they've never done before successfuly and without training. Files, or more generally objects, are probably one good abstraction. Currently the domain name/server abstraction is useful, but may be replaced. There are more of these -- perhaps with by defining a minimal set we can find a better interface.

    I can manipulate files much more flexibly than I can manipulate my CD collection. Hell, every time I get a new CD I have to rearrange everything because my CD holders are a little tight on space. It's a mess. Computers can do better. We shouldn't cripple them by holding them to physical/metaphorical limitations.
    --

  • Re:helix code by linzeal (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:35PM
  • Re:Waiting for new hardware by Ian Bicking (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:40PM
  • My weird idea by Ibn al-Hazardous (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:47PM
  • Re:Pie charts (Score:3)

    by SimHacker (180785) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:49PM (#955821) Homepage Journal
    See my previous posting about implementing pie menus in dynamic html/javascript/xml. If somebody ever gets around to implementing pie menus in the web browser using Dynamic HTML/JavaScript/XML, they could look like anything you can put into a web page.

    The pie menus in The Sims go a bit further than you could do in a web browser, though. Instead of using an opaque circular window, the Sims pie menus use a circular feathered real time image processing effect. It shows through to the live 3d graphics going on behind the menu, but the menu background is desatureted, darkened and lowered in contrast, so the text labels and the colorful person's head in the menu center stand out sharply against the background, but there is no sharp edge to the circular shadow effect, and you can still see what's going on behind the menu.

    The problem I was trying to solve, was that I wanted to clearly separate the interface elements (the pie menus) from the virtual world (the house), because the pie menus pop up overlapping the world view, wherever you click on an object.

    The pie menu has the selected person's head floating in the center, and without the shadow separating the head from the rest of the world, it would look disconcertingly like a giant head and menu labels appearing in the middle of the room among all the people and furniture.

    So the desaturation, darkness and low contrast of the background made the head in the menu center and the labels pop out much better against the otherwise colorful background. The circular shadow is smoothly feathered so it does not have a distinct edge, and the menu labels overlap out over that edge, breaking the frame, yet obviously associated with the menu.

    The overall effect is intended to be that the selected person is thinking about which action to perform on the selected object, their disembodied head outside of the world at another level of thought, looking up and down and all around around at the labels, trying to decide which action to do next.

    There's an illustration at the end of this web page, or you can pick up a copy of The Sims anywhere that sells computer games:
    http://catalog.com/hopkin s/piemenus/NaturalSelection.html [catalog.com]
    Right now, The Sims is only available on Windows, but I'm making a lot of progress porting it to Linux, and looking for a distributor. Please contact your favorite Linux game distributor and tell them if you would like to buy a copy of The Sims for Linux.

    -Don

  • Re:Pie charts by SimHacker (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @12:52PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs (here's a new idea) by J. J. Ramsey (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:14PM
  • Re:Color reactance by zuvembi (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:23PM
  • Re:TOUCH MY MONKEY by MOMOCROME (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:27PM
  • Re:Plenty of good research... by petebu (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:31PM
  • Re:Improvements by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:31PM
  • Re:The KISS principle by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:32PM
  • A lot of the interactions that need to be of concern are not the "Human-Computer" ones, but rather those where the computer is "talking to itself."

    This includes:

    • The whole "registry" thing.

      There is various information that needs to be persistent to one degree or another. On Windows, this tends to be saved in the Registry of "renoun and much denigration."

      On Linux, such data typically sits in the hordes of files in /etc and in $HOME/.*rc

      The semantics of how this all works has rather a lot of effect on how applications start up, even though it sits "under the covers."

    • Similarly, when applications 'talk to one another,' whether via OLE, COM, CORBA, RPC, HTTP, or ICE, this has rather a lot of effect on system behaviour, even when the protocols hide "below the skin."
    • The use of serialized data transfer protocols ( e.g. - the "Save File" dialog) as opposed to persistent database schemes similarly can make systems work way different even though the appearance of what gets shown on screen may have minimal difference.

      It's a small additional step to get to "transactional" systems, where once updates are "committed," they are really permanent. Think Tuxedo/Encina...

    These three "views" all have in common that they have nothing to do with which GUI library you're using to build your applications, or what icons are used.

    The fact that they're not particularly "visible" does not make them any the less important in the overall scheme of things.

    After all, if the gentle user can shut down (perhaps pressing the power switch!), and expect to power up again tomorrow and have everything go to where it was when they pressed the switch, that has lots of effect on user behaviour, whether they "click on save" continually, or not.

    My thought here is that a lot of the "HCI" changes taking place don't always need to involve things that are manifestly graphical. A Massively Improved World may "simply" involve systems that are reliable and provide persistent data as opposed to "3D Rotating Splash Screens."

  • Re:3D Environment with 2D Interfaces by Gryphin (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:36PM
  • gui thoughts by samantha (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:37PM
  • Re:Pie charts by SimHacker (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:39PM
  • Re:Not to mention monitors by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:40PM
  • Pie Menus are not patented was: Re:Pie charts by YeeHarr (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:40PM
  • UI Not GUI! by EXTomar (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:41PM
  • New GUI Designs by sain (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:48PM
  • mousewheel by DrSkwid (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:49PM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by aTMsA (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:56PM
  • What are you talking about? by Robert Paulson (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @01:57PM
  • Thank you! by Flynn777 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:00PM
  • Re:Color reactance by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:00PM
  • Re:I'm r/g colorblind by ASIC_mgc (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:00PM
  • Re:The KISS principle by DrSkwid (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:03PM
  • You need to get out more. by jcr (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:04PM
  • Re:Pie charts by Kesh (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:04PM
  • GUI pipe needed by SandsOfTime (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:06PM
  • Re:GUIs are at a limit. by troeg (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:12PM
  • Re:Microsoft Research (and "real" innovation) by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:12PM
  • The Web by jpcreighton (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:15PM
  • New UI elements right now! by Robert Paulson (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:15PM
  • Re:GUIs are at a limit. by troeg (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:16PM
  • Re:Research is being ignored in the Linux world by ShinGouki (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:19PM
  • Re:is QWERTY inferior? by burris (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:19PM
  • Re:I'm r/g colorblind by gwalla (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:20PM
  • Everybody *thinks* they know something about UI d by burris (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:23PM
  • Re:New GUI by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:23PM
  • Here's an idea... by gwalla (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:23PM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:25PM
  • Visual RegEx! by Robert Paulson (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:25PM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by piku (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:26PM
  • Re:Research is being ignored in the Linux world by gwalla (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:34PM
  • Re:VUI: The Next Generation GUI by piku (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:35PM
  • Re:Your kidding? by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:35PM
  • Re:Horizontal File Dialogs? by SpryGuy (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:43PM
  • Re:multi plane monitors by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:49PM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by JohnsonWax (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:53PM
  • Re:Why Not 3D by SpryGuy (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @02:56PM
  • Jef Raskin (original Mac guy) and New GUI by oxytocin (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:00PM
  • Re:What comes after the GUI? by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:07PM
  • Watch A Novice User Work with Linux by goingware (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:10PM
  • Microsoft software patent licensing: To all comers by yerricde (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:10PM
  • What makes a piemenu faster by yerricde (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:12PM
  • Re:I'm r/g colorblind by Tower (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:15PM
  • Cool Prank to ease traffic at a crosswalk by monkey # omega+1 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:17PM
  • Re:Some questions we should ask ourselves by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:18PM
  • Re:Research is being ignored in the Linux world by Kaufmann (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:26PM
  • New Displays, New UIs by SpryGuy (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:27PM
  • by Wakko Warner (324) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:29PM (#955878) Homepage Journal
    Absolutely nothing looks worse than a screen cluttered with seventeen different-looking applications, each as counter-intuitive and gaudy as the rest, and each totally different from the others. Open up Realplayer 7, Quicktime Player, Winamp, "Neoplanet", and a few other apps. Oh, then run Windowblinds.

    I'm assuming you've got a Windows system. Those who run Linux, like me, can easily emulate this train wreck in X with GTK, KDE, Xt, Motif, Athena, and straight Xlib applications.

    Barf. Barf. Barf! Death to skins everywhere. Give me a good-looking, powerful, *standard*, incredibly intuitive interface. Hopefully someone's researching this.

    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by h0udini (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:32PM
  • Can't make new GUIs? Make them better by krogoth (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:40PM
  • It's all cause of INPUT by aliens (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:43PM
  • But whats the interface for the interface?? by SectoidRandom (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:47PM
  • Re:New 2D UI Paradigms - Zooming, Lifestreams by nygeek (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:53PM
  • Real world GUI (car) by Fr0sty1 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @03:59PM
  • Re:GUI pipe needed by DavidOgg (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @04:02PM
  • Re:3D Environment with 2D Interfaces by Just Swing It (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @04:06PM
  • Word Services Suite for Modular Text Processing by goingware (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @04:10PM
  • 3d UI by Mr. Buckaroo (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @04:27PM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by Rich_Kilmer (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @04:35PM
  • Re:The KISS principle by pixel.jonah (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @04:44PM
  • Re:Watch A Novice User Work with Linux by Fester213 (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @04:49PM
  • Re:Here's an idea... by KnightStalker (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:10PM
  • Re:TWIN by LiENUS (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:13PM
  • XML-Based GUIs by QBasic_Dude (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:25PM
  • Re:Research is being ignored in the Linux world by Uksi (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:34PM
  • Death to Macintosh! by mshurpik (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:34PM
  • Re:Microsoft Research (and "real" innovation) by J. J. Ramsey (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:35PM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck (Score:5)

    by Eater (30104) on Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:37PM (#955898)
    I would like to see a textmode interface to a 3D GUI. Something like:

    Desktop
    You are standing in an open field to the west of a bar. There are some icons in the bar.

    >examine icons
    You can't see any icons here!

    >e

    Launcher Bar
    This is a narrow room with passages leading west to the Desktop and north to an xterm window. In addition, a set of stairs leads down into darkness. There is a Netscape icon here. There is a StarOffice icon here. There is a gaim icon here.
    Your pointer is glowing with a faint blue glow.

    >click netscape

    What do you want to click the Netscape icon with?

    >click netscape with pointer

    A violent rumbling comes from the ground. A previously unseen door opens to the southwest, revealing a brightly colored splash screen. After a moment, the rumbling stops, and the splash screen is replaced by an instance of Netscape Navigator 4.72, process number 5188.
    Your pointer has begun to glow very brightly.

  • Professional GUI Designer by J. Michael Welsh (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:44PM
  • Re:GUIs are at a limit. by SEWilco (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:55PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Compuser (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @05:59PM
  • Re:Why Not 3D by White Shadow (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @06:11PM
  • Re:Why Not 3D by White Shadow (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @06:12PM
  • (off-topic) Switching between Dvorak and QWERTY by Froobly (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @06:51PM
  • Re:GUI Research in games by Field Marshall Stack (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @06:59PM
  • Re:SKINS MUST DIE. DIE, DIE, DIE. by alleria (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:00PM
  • Re:Why no GUI revoloution? by Samarian Hillbilly (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:02PM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by alleria (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:14PM
  • Yes, but everyone hates them. by Jay L (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:17PM
  • Re:Form follows function by alleria (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:19PM
  • (OT)Superior or not, I'm doing less work by Froobly (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:21PM
  • Re:What comes after the GUI? by pixel.jonah (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:21PM
  • Re:Why Not 3D by alleria (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:23PM
  • Re:GUI Research in games by alleria (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:25PM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by Roland (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:39PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by galen (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:49PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by ameoba (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @07:50PM
  • Back to the command line and into 3D by Rysc (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @08:17PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs (here's a new idea) by adolf (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @08:19PM
  • Re:in case anyone's wondering... by fougasse (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @08:46PM
  • Ask_Slashdot(Re:SKINS MUST DIE. DIE, DIE, DIE.) by Black Parrot (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:21PM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by WhyCause (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:25PM
  • If it ain't broke, don't fix it... by Long Island Man (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:38PM
  • Ugh, I wish people would just forget about GUI's! by Com2Kid (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @09:54PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Emil Brink (Score:2) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:09PM
  • II not UI by Carlo Walentiny (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:51PM
  • Re:Perhaps.. BeOS has done this already... by mayar (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @10:58PM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by SwingGeek (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:06PM
  • perhaps the next GUI revolution is immersive by matthew_gream (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:16PM
  • Re:Color reactance or Berlin by nicky_d (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:26PM
  • Re:Plenty of good research... by allanj (Score:1) Wednesday July 05 2000, @11:49PM
  • Re:Pie charts by allanj (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @12:06AM
  • Re:I'm r/g colorblind by anatoli (Score:2) Thursday July 06 2000, @02:10AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Lozzer (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @02:14AM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by aTMsA (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @02:22AM
  • Re:SKINS MUST DIE. DIE, DIE, DIE. by angelo (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @02:24AM
  • GUI Research - Is it Still Being Done? by Famy (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @03:02AM
  • Myron Krueger's Videodesk by Pseudonymus Bosch (Score:2) Thursday July 06 2000, @03:06AM
  • Re:And function follows technology by davebooth (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @03:29AM
  • Re:Research is being ignored in the Linux world by Junks Jerzey (Score:2) Thursday July 06 2000, @03:42AM
  • Re:The web killed the GUI by Joe Cat (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @03:43AM
  • Re:helix code by jmiller29 (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @03:44AM
  • Re:But whats the interface for the interface?? by Spasemunki (Score:2) Thursday July 06 2000, @04:13AM
  • Re:Further Changes Require Further Abstractions by Kaa (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @04:42AM
  • Re:Why Not 3D? Information consolidation by maraist (Score:2) Thursday July 06 2000, @05:16AM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs (here's a new idea) by SoftAce (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @05:20AM
  • Re:is QWERTY inferior? by outlier (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @05:34AM
  • The same old song... by WorldMaker (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @05:57AM
  • Re:HAHAHAHA!!! by greenrd (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @06:20AM
  • Re:The KISS principle by daviddennis (Score:2) Thursday July 06 2000, @06:33AM
  • Re:The KISS principle by daviddennis (Score:2) Thursday July 06 2000, @06:35AM
  • GUIs aren't really all the same by iabervon (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @06:37AM
  • Re:Color reactance or Berlin by MrEd (Score:2) Thursday July 06 2000, @06:38AM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by iabervon (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @06:49AM
  • Re:Current UI's focus on features and not useabili by kps (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @07:16AM
  • Re:Why Not 3D? Information consolidation by SpryGuy (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @07:21AM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by piku (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @10:42AM
  • Re:A| Maya uses pie charts by SimHacker (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @11:29AM
  • Re:Pie charts by SimHacker (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @12:15PM
  • Re:Pie charts by SimHacker (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @12:17PM
  • Re:Pie charts-Zork by SimHacker (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @12:20PM
  • Re:have you ever by SimHacker (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @12:28PM
  • Re:last I checked by SimHacker (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @12:35PM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by aTMsA (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @12:45PM
  • Re:3D GUI's suck by piku (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @01:55PM
  • Re:The KISS principle by Glamatron (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @03:39PM
  • Re:Watch A Novice User Work with Linux by mister-e-dog (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @06:00PM
  • Re:The KISS principle by mister-e-dog (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @06:33PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by blahedo (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @07:41PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs by Compuser (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @08:56PM
  • Re:Pie charts by allanj (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @09:14PM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by bumchick (Score:1) Thursday July 06 2000, @11:14PM
  • i like it... by EnderWiggnz (Score:2) Friday July 07 2000, @04:49AM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by mustermark (Score:1) Friday July 07 2000, @10:08AM
  • Re:Comfortable paradigms by dr_eaerth (Score:1) Friday July 07 2000, @10:14AM
  • Re:Pie charts by Nick Ives (Score:1) Friday July 07 2000, @11:46AM
  • Re:255char filenames== MFS filesystems by alangmead (Score:1) Sunday July 09 2000, @04:37AM
  • Europa for Windows by melios (Score:1) Sunday July 09 2000, @10:04PM
  • Re:Sure there are new GUIs (here's a new idea) by Refrag (Score:1) Thursday July 13 2000, @06:43AM
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