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Cheap, Paper RF ID Tags To Replace Barcodes?

Posted by timothy on Fri Nov 03, 2000 05:06 PM
from the paperless-office-and-grocery-store dept.
Chris writes: "From EETimes: "International Paper Co. and Motorola Inc. have developed a low-cost RF identification system that could become commonplace on disposable items like cereal boxes, replacing the ubiquitous bar code." While the article does mention that the cost of the technology must drop further (from about 10 to 30 cents per ID to a couple of pennies), it overlooks the potential impact on privacy. (Just imagine embedding these tags in your clothes.)"
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(1) | 2 | 3
  • Re:Privacy? by Jason Earl (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:27PM
  • Cuecat sues by geoffeg (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:29PM
  • by Paul Johnson (33553) on Saturday November 04 2000, @03:53AM (#650519) Homepage
    For a potential future in which these tags are ubiquitous, see "Distraction" by Bruce Sterling. Sterling stuff.

    Briefly, in Sterling's world there is no such thing as privacy once someone cares enough to try tapping you. But this technology is so cheap and ubiquitous that anyone can use it to tag anyone else and trace them around. There is lots else besides. Strongly recommended.

    Paul.

  • Re:Should be easy to remove by aozilla (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @04:30AM
  • Digital Convergence sues paper, pencil users by abde (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @04:37AM
  • post first, think later.... by y6y6y6 (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @02:48PM
  • Re:Oh no! by aralin (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @02:59PM
  • which stock to buy: IP or MOT? by bawback (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @03:00PM
  • Re:Practical applications and limitations by aozilla (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @04:43AM
  • Re:The "P" word by osgeek (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @03:01PM
  • Re:Not just for tagging consumers' clothes by bad-badtz-maru (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @05:40AM
  • Re:The "P" word by Token User (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @03:22PM
  • Certifcates of Authenticity for your toothpaste by Other1 (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @03:23PM
  • Re:Practical applications and limitations by bad-badtz-maru (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @05:52AM
  • Oh my God, you're right! by donutello (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @03:25PM
  • Wrong !!! by Troy Roberts (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @03:27PM
  • Not to worry... by ScratchDot (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:29PM
  • hard to compete with free by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:30PM
  • Not just for tagging consumers' clothes by Anne Marie (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:31PM
  • Quick reaction needed by Trailer Trash (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:32PM
  • Wow by Beowulf_Boy (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:33PM
  • Actually pretty kewl, if only... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:34PM
  • Oh no! (Score:3)

    by 2nd Post! (213333) <gundbear@pacbTWAINell.net minus author> on Friday November 03 2000, @12:35PM (#650539) Homepage
    My boss could find me anywhere he wanted?

    "Where's Louis? Activate the building wide EM field generator!"

    "Sir, the sensors indicate a response in location F12"

    "Where is that?"

    "He's in his cube, sir!"

    Alternatively:

    "Sir, sensors indicate his shirt is in location F4 and his pants are in location F7, and that his shoes are in location E1"

    "What?!"

    The nick is a joke! Really!
  • New application of not-to-new technology by TFloore (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:36PM
  • a search engine for your house!! by CvD (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @06:04AM
  • Re:Bad Idea by ideut (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @06:49AM
  • Re:Ways to Circumvent the chips by Corgha (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @06:59AM
  • Re:True Story... by donutello (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @03:36PM
  • Re:Soviets used this before... by KFury (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @06:59AM
  • Gees, have you read any of the article or here??? by Troy Roberts (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @03:46PM
  • Re:Few cents already possible by fatphil (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @07:39AM
  • Re:Soviets used this before... by Troy Roberts (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @03:49PM
  • Oh no! (Score:3)

    by Masem (1171) on Friday November 03 2000, @12:09PM (#650549)
    Digital:Convergence's business model is ruined!
  • Re:The "P" word by Asic Eng (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @07:57AM
  • So, add a nuclear EMP... by Googol (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @03:51PM
  • Re:The "P" word by Asic Eng (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @08:01AM
  • Cookie Cuffs by SEWilco (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:09PM
  • 6 feet is enough by upper (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @04:03PM
  • Re:Bad Idea by HeghmoH (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @04:05PM
  • RF Identification systems to the web -- prior art by mojotoad (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @04:05PM
  • DC by Icebox (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:10PM
  • Re:Bad Idea by Jason Skomorowski (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @04:10PM
  • Ah-ha! by Art_XIV (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:11PM
  • Deactivation by cybercuzco (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @04:24PM
  • kinda scary (Score:4)

    by Mike Bridge (8663) on Friday November 03 2000, @12:12PM (#650561) Homepage
    "There are going to be trillions of tags like these on all kinds of consumer products, and they'll tell us exactly where those products are in the supply chain at all times," said Larry Kellam
    "hmmm, all these 'Debby Does Dallas' tags are coming from that house, what a weirdo"
    "the signatures from those 2 stolen cases of PS2's are coming from there..."
    "click, click, Hey! that house over there has a tag for that new Expensive TV set, lets go break in and steal it!"

  • Just imagine the insurance companies getting in by duncan (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:37PM
  • Re:Bad Idea by PimpDaddie (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:37PM
  • Re:The "P" word by Asic Eng (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:38PM
  • Closer to integratting my world. by Papa Legba (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:39PM
  • Re:Should be easy to remove by Captain_Frisk (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:41PM
  • Re:Bad Idea by ConceptJunkie (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:42PM
  • I wonder what will happen by BluedemonX (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:43PM
  • Everything but your name, and maybe that by upper (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @04:40PM
  • Re:The "P" word by jorbettis (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @09:25AM
  • Re:Practical applications and limitations by Suidae (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @04:45PM
  • Re:Closer to integratting my world. by Suidae (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @04:47PM
  • Re:The "P" word by meme (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @03:27PM
  • Recycling by Michael Woodhams (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @04:49PM
  • oh my :-) by dunkelfalke (Score:1) Sunday November 05 2000, @01:02AM
  • Re:Faraday Cage by ToddN (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @04:57PM
  • Library Records by Zachary Kessin (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @05:01PM
  • Re:Soviets used this before... by Suidae (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @05:01PM
  • Harder than you think... by Svartalf (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:45PM
  • Wow! by mwalker (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:45PM
  • You can exceed the current capacity of the chip... by Svartalf (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:46PM
  • Re:The "P" word by kchayer (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:48PM
  • Re:The "P" word by dattaway (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:48PM
  • Mam, if you would please step to the side ... by NetWurkGuy (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:50PM
  • Even scarier.... by oGMo (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:51PM
  • Re:Bad Idea by jyak (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:51PM
  • Re:Practical applications and limitations by Texas1st (Score:1) Monday November 06 2000, @07:49AM
  • using RFID to replace people by maximum20 (Score:1) Monday November 06 2000, @09:56AM
  • Re:Practical applications and limitations by Cylix (Score:1) Monday November 13 2000, @07:44AM
  • Re:Washer/Dryer == Disabler? by inburito (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @05:12PM
  • Clothes - Washer/Dryer will kill tags? by Teflon (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @05:16PM
  • Re:Should be easy to remove by NecrosisLabs (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @05:29PM
  • RF sucks... by Refrag (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @05:32PM
  • At last! by Nethead (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @05:34PM
  • Re:Worst post! by metis (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @05:36PM
  • Re:Worst post! by metis (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:52PM
  • Face it, Slashdot by Niggler (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:52PM
  • what would i do with? by pneuma_66 (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:53PM
  • Re:Should be easy to remove by dattaway (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:54PM
  • Re:Oh no! by LordEq (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:16PM
  • ID are already embedded in clothes by Jafa (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:55PM
  • Re:Bad Idea by dirtyboot (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:18PM
  • Stuff like this has been around for ages. by hey! (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:55PM
  • Re:kinda scary by kevlar (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:57PM
  • Re:Wow by ender- (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:20PM
  • Re:The "P" word by technos (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:22PM
  • Range limitations on this system... by Svartalf (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:23PM
  • Freedom and Privacy are branches on the same tree by Tomin8tor (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:24PM
  • Re:Bad Idea by jyak (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:31PM
  • Re:The "P" word by Token User (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:32PM
  • by deglr6328 (150198) on Friday November 03 2000, @01:32PM (#650611)
    almost all types of RF tags carry no power source of their own.

    they are merely a number encoded chip connected to an induction coil. when the coil is brought near an oscilating magnetic field it induces a current that drives the IC and emits a small amount of coded RF energy from a tiny antenna. simply make the driver field strong enough to cause the ohmic heating in the tag's induction coil to burn it out and no more "the gubment's trackin' me!" delusions to worry about.

  • Re:At last! by atrowe (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @05:58PM
  • Re:Privacy? by heikkiketola (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @05:59PM
  • Re:The "P" word by dynoman7 (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @06:01PM
  • Re: not.......really ..scary. by Xevion (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @06:09PM
  • Re:kinda scary by plague3106 (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @06:11PM
  • Re:Worst post! by osgeek (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @06:26PM
  • Re:The "P" word (Score:3)

    by dattaway (3088) on Friday November 03 2000, @01:00PM (#650618) Homepage
    I agree: just how far is a small paper tag going to transmit?

    Perhaps not too far. That's when you turn up the exciter power until a satisfactory response is achieved. High gain directional antennas are wonderful. Aim the antenna to different portions of the house to scan the inventory.

    Sounds like a fascinating project. Measure the range of these things and what you can get out of a house.
  • by KFury (19522) on Friday November 03 2000, @01:01PM (#650619) Homepage
    The Soviets used a system similar to this to spy on the US Embassy in Moscow about 20 years ago. They 'gifted' a wall emblem to the embassy, and of course it was checked for bugs, and no emissions were found, but it actually had embedded a long copper loop that acted as an induction coil.

    The gist was, the KGB could park a van a block away and emit a very powerful high frequency sine wave at the embassy and the coil in the emblem would turn the EM flux into power to drive an embedded microphone and transmitter (using the same coil).

    This went on for several years because the US regularly ran bug sweeps but it wasn't generating or storing any energy most of the time, and when it was being powered from the outside, the US figured it was some sort of attempt at jamming telecommunications within the embassy (which it was doing a very poor job of, being at the wrong frequency) so they basically ignored it.

    Anyhow, this is all relevant because these RF tags are powered by inductance, which means any range limitation is purely a factor of the EM field powering it. There's no inheirent limitation in the device itself.

    As for privacy, I don't care about tags in my cereal box. If I can walk out of a store and automatically debit my account instead of waiting in line, so much the better. If I can tie it to an anonymous cash card instead of my credit card, better still. If there's anything to worry about, it's the RF-powered listening devices, but since you probably don't run bug sweeps inside your own house on a regular basis, this isn't any more dangerous than an ordinary joe-blow X-10 camera bug in your shower.

    Kevin Fox
  • Re:hard to compete with free by NetWurkGuy (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:01PM
  • Range by 2nd Post! (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:01PM
  • Re:The "P" word by ftobin (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:01PM
  • Or, what happens if you make it smarter? by Perianwyr Stormcrow (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:38PM
  • by Svartalf (2997) on Friday November 03 2000, @01:03PM (#650624) Homepage
    My former employer had a similar chip- I was designing enterprise class systems around the use of it.

    The name of Intermec's product line using it is Intellitag 500[tm]. Little chip not much bigger than a glass head pin in diameter. Put it on stickers, etc. for inventory control, parking access/billing, etc. What makes Motorola's BiStatix chip special is that it doesn't need a foil antenna- conductive inks will do for most close-range applications.

    Jamming them isn't going to be easy. They work off of RF backscatter- they don't transmit anything. They impress a modulation on a reflected carrier. They're basically a very fancy RF mirror and reflect ANY RF in the range that they're tuned for.

    Overloading them isn't going to be very easy. The power levels are in the ball park of 500-1000 watts of RF power. Most of these units operate in the 900MHz, 2GHz, or somewhere around 5GHz in Europe. You'll cook yourself with these power levels.

    Oh, and the original trade-press releases from Motorola were around the January/February timeframe. I believe that EE Times originally covered this sometime around June, if memory serves.
  • A good read-up... by detritus. (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:39PM
  • Re:They can't do that! by eswan (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:06PM
  • Carrying activated anti-theft tags is hilarious. by Perianwyr Stormcrow (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:42PM
  • Re:Should be easy to remove by atrowe (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:42PM
  • Like IBM by Aztech (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:44PM
  • Re:Should be easy to remove by dattaway (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:47PM
  • A New Geek Toy by mightbeadog (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:48PM
  • Re:Oh no! by great om (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:51PM
  • Worst post! by FigWig (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:13PM
  • Gasp! (Score:3)

    by Rombuu (22914) on Friday November 03 2000, @12:13PM (#650634)
    (Just imagine embedding these tags in your clothes.)

    Oh, my God, people could.. well, um, they could, well, um, what am I missing here?
  • Just in time! by AntiPasto (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:13PM
  • MIT Auto-ID Center by ChingLaw (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @07:12PM
  • The "P" word (Score:4)

    by Future Linux-Guru (34181) on Friday November 03 2000, @12:13PM (#650637)

    Do geeks in general tremble at the thought that someone may be invading their own private space, or does Slashdot have an agenda?

    Week, by week, by week the great Gods of Slashdot deliver upon us editorialized half-rants about privacy concerns---and it just does not seem like that big a deal to me.

  • by Spooky Possum (80044) on Friday November 03 2000, @12:14PM (#650638)
    Just applying a decent strength RF field will burn out the circuit.

    An antenna can always act as a reciever as well as a transmitter.

    This is how some anti-shoplifting tags work (although most are magnetic) and applying a strong RF field is precisely how they're disabled.

    This also suggests an interesting denial of service, if you can get the RF strength high enough from *outside* the building where they're being used.
  • M$ killer robots by Mike Bridge (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:14PM
  • RF tags in clothes by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:14PM
  • Re:Worst post! by metis (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @08:53PM
  • Privacy? by sheldon (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:16PM
  • This strikes me as funny... by Misch (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @10:11PM
  • sweet by daevt (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @10:20PM
  • But... by coldtalon (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @10:31PM
  • What it's for. by Animats (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @11:08PM
  • About 4-6 meters at 900MHz and 500mW. by Svartalf (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:06PM
  • Re:Should be easy to remove by sandidge (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:07PM
  • Re:Bad Idea by ConceptJunkie (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:07PM
  • Ways to Circumvent the chips by Corgha (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:09PM
  • Pass it by a portal antenna array... by Svartalf (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:10PM
  • Re:True Story... by atrowe (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:52PM
  • Again, harder than you think... by Svartalf (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @01:13PM
  • True Story... by Wog (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:14PM
  • Re:The "P" word by Asic Eng (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:54PM
  • Less Overhead != Lower Prices by plimsoll (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:16PM
  • by fatphil (181876) on Friday November 03 2000, @01:56PM (#650657) Homepage
    Flying Null, a breakaway company from Scientific Generics, and engineering consultancy in Cambridge, UK, developed a system like this 5 years ago.
    The name of the company, Flying Null, was due to the technique used. By setting up a region where competing EM forces were exactly balanced (a null), when tiny objects (the tags) with particular properties were brought into the null they'd disrupt the balance, and would be detectable. How do you scan a broader region of space? Simple - set up the balance differently, and get the null to fly around the place...

    And the cost of the tags? In bulk, pennies, and that was 5 years ago.
    (SG was 150 employees, about 50 engineers at the time, and only 5-10 were involved in Flying Null.)

    FatPhil
  • Re:Not just for tagging consumers' clothes by CapnEric (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @01:16PM
  • I don't get it by nsane (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @02:01PM
  • Washer/Dryer == Disabler? by Erasmus Darwin (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @02:05PM
  • It's that IBM commercial in the grocery store by Kazir (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @02:15PM
  • Privacy? by Bilbo (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:18PM
  • Bad Idea by jyak (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:18PM
  • Re:Oh no! by 1010011010 (Score:2) Friday November 03 2000, @12:19PM
  • Yo, Timothy by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:19PM
  • Re:Oh no! by Shagg (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:20PM
  • mischief by dkh (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:21PM
  • Replace this! by rekcufrehtom (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:22PM
  • Re:Washer/Dryer == Disabler? by Striker5 (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @11:09PM
  • Re:Privacy? by Striker5 (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @11:16PM
  • Re:Less Overhead != Lower Prices by thogard (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @12:02AM
  • Re:ID are already embedded in clothes by thogard (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @12:06AM
  • I don't think its quite so large a privacy issue.. by ddent (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @12:18AM
  • Re:Worst post! by osgeek (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @02:33PM
  • So just how tiny can we cheaply make an INS? by Frater Thoughtrain (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @02:33PM
  • Re:Oh no! by SpotBug (Score:1) Saturday November 04 2000, @02:41AM
  • Re:Bad Idea by ConceptJunkie (Score:2) Saturday November 04 2000, @03:33AM
  • Faraday Cage by kilonad (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @02:42PM
  • Re:kinda scary by MR.Gates (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @02:44PM
  • by Masem (1171) on Friday November 03 2000, @12:23PM (#650680)
    It would seem to me that given the size and the like, this tag has a very limited range, maybe measured in meters. Not strong enough, even, such that someone standing outside your house could determine the identity of any objects within it, even if on the other side of the wall. Add to that a limited shelf life, and I don't see how this can be used as a 'permanent' identity system.

    On the other hand, it can bring about two major application uses: shoplifting is one, as this type of id would be harder to tear off compared to the various tags they have now. The other is from an AT&T commercial (I think), where you push your grocery cart into a stall, wait a moment, and your total rings up, speeding checkout lines. Possibly even 'smart' cupboards and refridgerators could come from this.

    Sure, there's privacy issues in some of these cases, but they're the same privacy issues that we deal with now with those frequent shopper cards. The technology really doesn't introduce anything new.

  • They can't do that! by atomly (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:23PM
  • Re:The "P" word by Mike Bridge (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:24PM
  • Just pack my CDs next to the 8-tracks by NetWurkGuy (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:25PM
  • Who needs privacy?!? by MrP- (Score:1) Friday November 03 2000, @12:26PM
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