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Motorola Releases HA Linux
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Mar 06, 2000 01:31 PM
from the yet-another-distro dept.
from the yet-another-distro dept.
A reader sent us the word that there's been yet another entry in the Linux Distro Population Index. Yes, Motorola has released a distro they are calling High Availibility Linux. It's released for x86 and PowerPC platforms and is intended to be for embedded systems that need to be "99.999% uptime". They've also released
details on their Web site about the system. Their main target is telecom development, according to their press release.
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Motorola Releases HA Linux
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Re:Enough already! (Score:3)
This is a very hardware based solution, and hence, requires a very specific distro for it. This isn't for running Wordperfect and Quake III. This is high availability. Granted, if they stuck with a given distro's standards, that be nice, but this is a VERY specific solution..
The article is slashdotted... (Score:3)
Secondly, how usable is their HA code? I know that Sun's HA code is buggy and phenominally unreliable to the point of being completely useless.
Lastly, what (if any) code of their own are they going to release?
Oh how the tides turn... (Score:3)
We need a linux platform now more than ever ! (Score:3)
Otherwise we risk to go the way of the UNIX's splits, where basically each UNIX is it's own platform, and this is going to scare people off real quick.
I'm all for innovation and stuff, but not at the cost of loosing my favorite current platform. This is why I think SGI did the right thing by creating a Linux Powerpack that comes on top of a Redhat distribution. It's less work for them (they don't have to take care of the whole distribution) and it's more reassuring for the users and the software makers that don't have to worry too much about yet another distribution.
Re:So how do you get the code? (Score:3)
Ahh, another telco geek! (Score:3)
It really freaks PC people out when you yank cards out of a working system, doesn't it? During the course of testing a system, we beat on the chassis and cards with our fists, wiggle and pull on the connectors, bodycheck the entire bay of equipment, pull each card, reset the processor, interrupt any signals that are supposed to be protected, and if at any time traffic fails for more than 50ms, we have to go back and figure out what went wrong. Computer users just don't understand it.
It's difficult, to say the least, to get people to understand that when we apply power to something, it never goes down, for any reason, until it's obsolete and ready to be removed.
Do you have an example, or some good way of explaining this sort of stuff to people outside the industry? I seem to get blank stares when I describe telco availability standards to PC people.
I can see the ads now:"aHA!", "HA HA" or "HALinux" (Score:3)
"Argh! The Blue Screen of Death again! Where can I get an OS with 99.999% uptime? aHA! HA Linux."
Or
"Laugh at the competition: HA HA HA. Use HA Linux."
Or
"After seeing 2001 Space Odyssey: So that's what H.A.L. stands for: High Availability Linux"
Now back to your regular scheduled posts.
***********************************************
"I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when
I had put the last touches to it, I discovered
that it was orthodoxy." G.K. Chesterton in
Orthodoxy
***********************************************
Enough already! (Score:4)
because it's "redundant", but it's something that has to be known.
All right, Motorola does their own distro...
is it Debian, or RedHat based? Or none of those?
What will happen if you want to work with embedded controllers, using Motorola chips, but don't want to use their own distro? Will you lose technical support?
IMHO, I think hardware manufacturers should just test distros that work correctly with their hardware, issue a hardware driver patch to the kernel so Alan and his gang can merge it into the general kernel, and be done with it. That way, in case anyone is using another XYZ distro and wants to work with Motorola embedded chips, Motorola simply says "Just patch the kernel... the patch is available right here!" And, if they don't know how to do that, they shouldn't be programming an embedded controller, for christ sakes!
Hardware manufacturers should NOT create their own distros... I repeat... Hardware manufacturers should NOT create their own distros... just release a kernel patch, binary driver module, or
whatever is best for them. It's the best solution
for them (they don't have to manage their own distro), and for everybody else (just download the patch, patch the kernel, recompile it, reboot, and wala! You're done)
If I hurt somebody's feelings, sorry... had to calm down my temper.
In another move... (Score:4)
--
Re:Argh! Too many Linuxen (Score:4)
No, this is just so COOL, if you've ever watched it done.
This is a mandatory test for TELCO equipment; yank the ACTIVE processor card out of it's slot and make sure the inactive side took over, and correctly noted the event. That's with an 80% of maximum traffic load applied.
When you're dealing with ENTERPRISE class equipment and service levels, you don't reboot even to upgrade the kernel. It stays live all the time. Probably make a killer e-commerce (or portal) server, as well.
In the TELCO environment, 99.999% uptime means just that. Too much time outside of normal operation and you're writing inch-thick reports to the FCC.
And believe you me; there's a huge difference between 99.9% (just reboot and get back to work ) and 99.999%
Re:Enough already! (Score:5)
So, as an embedded systems developer and in your perfect world, I should get a RedHat CD and some binaries/code from Motorola, throw them together, shake vigorously, cram them into flash, then boot? Uh huh. Sounds like pain to me. In fact, I'm sure some nice person would come along, do it, and post the results so that everyone else doesn't have to go through the pain. Whoops, thats a distro!
A beauty of Linux is that tens, hundreds, even thousands of distros can pop up, giving me all the choices I want. If I want a workstation with X/GNOME and some nice Office apps, I install one distro. If I want a server, optimized for IP performance, I install another. If I'm building a smart toaster, I get another. Someone else does the work and shares it.
In addition, unlimited distros means that we can more easily try out new stuff, not just new versions of gcc or glibc. They might try different install, package management, library management, personalities, etc. One might even come up with an alternative to X-windows, this would never happen if we were all using the same distros that had to maintain backwards compatibility. The best survive and go on, its evolution, baby. You build the better distro by allowing mutations to pop up and letting the population decide which is best. BTW, best may mean one that follows the LSB best, etc.
The alternative is to be limited to only a handful of versions and we all bitch how they don't meet our needs and how we wished we could do it ourselves. You might as well go back to Windows.
Repeat after me (Score:5)
You make it seem like managing one's own distro is harder than trying to manage someone else's distro. You also make it seem like achieving these levels of uptime is just a matter of inserting a new driver. I'd suggest otherwise in this particular case.
And using reverse psychology like yours on moderators, while effective, is beneath my contempt. No need (+1 Insightful) to insert (+1 Informative) subliminal messages (+1 Funny) in my posts. No sir-ee.
version 9000 has incredible uptime features (Score:5)
HAL-9000# shutdown -r now
I'm sorry root, I can't do that.
George
Argh! Too many Linuxen (Score:5)
HA Linux provides:
And this Linux seems destined for the telco market, designed to run in telecom systems that require major high uptime (carrier grade networking etc). After 2 or the 3 computers that service 0800 and 0845 etc numbers in the UK crashed at the same time a couple of weeks ago, this uptime is required.
Most /.'ers don't understand what HA really means! (Score:5)
Nortel [nortel.ca] runs HP-UX in some of their transport equipment, but again it's a non-service-affecting application. Failure of the overhead processor means that performance monitoring and protection switching are lost, but it doesn't immediately affect traffic. I don't know what the DMS-series switches run at the core, but the user interface looks the same as on their TransportNodes.
Tellabs [tellabs.com] runs their Titan series cross-connect systems on PowerPC processors. As in the Nortel equipment, the traffic itself is carried on dumb electronics; loss of the processor only affects fault recovery, system provisioning, and performance monitoring.
So far, nobody's using Linux for mission-critical stuff, processing customer calls in real-time. This is probably about to change! Slashdot readers know that Linux is more stable than the average desktop OS. But most people don't realize the extreme requirements of the telecom industry.
For instance: When a tornado ripped the roof off [americasnetwork.com] a central office and half the switch was soaked, the parts which weren't physically destroyed by water kept running.
This is an industry where there's (hopefully) no such thing as downtime. I've been in offices where data circuits have been functioning continuously since before I was born. A few bit errors here and there due to the occasional lightning strike, but no real interruptions. From the switches that actually handle your calls, to the transport systems that move data from one office to another, everything has backups. Commercial power fails? No problem, the office runs on batteries anyway. They go from charging to discharging, and you've got 12 hours to get the diesel generator running in case it doesn't start itself. After that, you've got a week's worth of fuel in an underground tank. Let's say some knucklehead throws a wrench into a power board. Instant pinkslip, but the customers never know, because everything has two power feeds. Down to the individual card level, every circuit in a piece of telcom equipment has a backup that takes over in the event of a failure.
In the PC world, RAID comes close to this level of reliability in terms of a drive failure, but how many of them can give you access to your data even if a controller or bus fails?
Is your desktop box ready for this?
HA Linux IS a significant development. I haven't had a chance to check out the specs yet, (Slashdotted -- how's that for availability?) but from the quick blurb here, I can say that this will seriously change some things in the carrier market. Your ESS or DMS or EWSD might not run Linux any time soon, but some enormous routers and call-processing systems might.