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Journal smittyoneeach's Journal: Is The Whole Culture (At Least Partially) Collapsing? 42

Serious, dispassionate question. I'm not all Chicken Little about it, but I really wonder whether the current course is leading to some sort of squishy splat.
No need to waste energy blaming anyone. It's really all just organizational behavior, in my opinion. Given this many people, and the non-scalability of human virtue, it looks like the current situation is more or less inevitable.
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Is The Whole Culture (At Least Partially) Collapsing?

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  • by johnck ( 782010 )

    I think it's definitely on a path toward total destruction. Part of me wants to say it's a human-specific condition of unchecked technology growth hitting the meddling of crazy social scientists but at the same time I'm not completely ignorant of this type of behavior elsewhere in nature. For instance, warring ant colonies resemble our current predicament. An ant caste system with its actionable culture tics warring with another nearly identical but completely incompatible external nest will voluntarily

    • it's clear we're either on a path towards a second civil war or a peaceful split.

      I think those are bookends of a spectrum, and we'll land in the middle-ish.
      There isn't any way a civil war could sustain itself. Four years of 19th century conflict would conclude in four hours of 21st, as soon as the cel phone towers go down. No leadership. No logistics. Just a lot of overgrown toddlers wincing about.
      Nor is a peaceful split attainable. How would that even happen?

  • Are you referring to some sort of monoculture for humanity? Or a monoculture for the USA? If that's the case then you can't possibly avoid falling into your own bit of

    No need to waste energy blaming anyone

    Because as you come from the dominant culture in the USA, and any hope for a monoculture would mean you want to subjugate all others into your culture regardless of whether or not they agree with it, then you are already blaming someone and claiming your culture to be superior.

    • Because as you come from the dominant culture in the USA

      . . .whose good nature has been so ruthlessly abused by those wishing this country to revert to the human-historical norm of the tyranny of the minority. We call them "globalists" now, but it's tantamount to a new aristocracy. Our folly has been to let globalists conquer us via debt.

      • Because as you come from the dominant culture in the USA

        . . .whose good nature

        The people who were here first and found their own culture nearly wiped out by what has become the dominant culture of the USA would argue strongly against the "good nature" argument.

        We call them "globalists" now, but it's tantamount to a new aristocracy.

        No, we had an aristocrat in the white house the past 4 years (and many other times as well). While Biden is not a huge departure from it, his acceptance of culture as an evolving entity is an improvement on many fronts.

        • The people who were here first

          Genuinely curious how you achieved any certainty about these "first" people, their virtue, and any direct personal connection I have with them or their descendants.

          his acceptance of culture as an evolving entity is an improvement on many fronts.

          Guy's a vegetable. Keep on defending him. Thine buttocks enlarge.

          • The people who were here first

            Genuinely curious how you achieved any certainty about these "first" people,

            Well, you have stated by your defense of your own culture that you see your culture as being superior to any culture that existed in this country before your own. There is no debating that your present culture is descended from one that was imported here by people who most likely looked a fair bit like you.

            Now if we want to get into who was here first, that is a slightly more complicated anthropological question. I could have written a better statement by simply saying "people who were here before your

            • You have stated that you are concerned about the loss of your culture, and shown no concern whatsoever for the loss of theirs. You also stated approval for a monoculture, which presumably would be your own and not that of anyone else. In so doing you are claiming cultural superiority.

              If I squint, your statement nearly comes into focus. A few points:

              • I'm an unambiguous supporter of American Exceptionalism. Human history turned a corner with the 1787 Constitution. Which the globalist aristocratic elite is an
              • I'm an unambiguous supporter of American Exceptionalism.

                That's a strange way to describe supporting cultural genocide. Potato, nuclear missile, I guess.

                The desire of others to come enjoy this liberty

                People move for lots of reasons. Some destinations are also easier to get to than others; it's quite difficult to get from Honduras to Switzerland, but substantially easier to get to the US from Honduras.

                The stubborn general unwillingness of the detractors to go find whatever other paradise they think available

                That's nothing but arrogant malarkey there. When the GOP is in power and democrats complain about what is going on, the standard GOP refrain - ignoring reality of course - is "go live in another country".

                • Don't pretend your party is still basing their reality on scripture or religion.

                  I don't even understand this. How could a party, as such, even have anything resembling a religion?
                  (Actual) faith is an individual matter. Now, I grasp that there is some tagging going on, where "Country X is a Y land", but whatever faith is in consideration is a metaphysical concern. Policy is a physical one.
                  I submit that a major source of the divide in our dialogue is found here.
                  To characterize my viewpoint without insisti

                  • I don't even understand this. How could a party, as such, even have anything resembling a religion?

                    I should have written that better. Don't pretend the GOP is basing their logic on any Abrahamic religion. The GOP is now - and likely will for a long time be - the church of Donald Trump. He is worshipped as a god in the GOP, the Chosen One who will bring justice and salvation. Only his word matters in the party.

                    That said, I'd like to get back to your original argument in favor of an American Monoculture. You have expressed concern about such a culture "collapsing". It's important to view that cla

                    • Don't pretend the GOP is basing their logic on any Abrahamic religion.

                      You seem desperate to get me to view the GOP as somehow distinct from the distal end of the Deep State, the Democrats.

                      This is important because you are trying to establish superiority of one culture over all others.

                      You're ascribing a superiority falsely here. I don't care what other cultures are doing, short of genocidal outings like the Uighurs.
                      But even if one reaches some Neo-Con endpoint that there must needs be some policy respons

                    • I don't care what other cultures are doing

                      As long as they aren't in your country, right? Because you started this JE to tell us about your fear that people are bringing about the "collapse" of your culture. What could possibly bring this about other than influences from other cultures?

                      short of genocidal outings like the Uighurs.

                      You've stated your belief that your culture is superior. How is that not an endorsement of the eradication of inferior cultures within your country?

                      This is a glaring weakness of our Constitution. It was born in a simpler time, when giving the rest of the planet the middle finger was more feasible.

                      Yeah, damn those melting pots. Accept our imported culture or go somewhere else, right?

                    • As long as they aren't in your country, right? Fair point: I don't care what folks do in their own country, short of genocide.
                      I do care that the founding ideals of this country are not replaced by some ersatz reversion to the the human historical authoritarian norm.
                    • As long as they aren't in your country, right? Fair point: I don't care what folks do in their own country, short of genocide.

                      If you are defining your culture as being superior - which you have already done - then you are at most a short step away from genocide, if you haven't already at least crossed the line into approving of genocide.

                    • If you are defining your culture as being superior - which you have already done - then you are at most a short step away from genocide, if you haven't already at least crossed the line into approving of genocide.

                      Once more, and may the power of Heaven help your reading comprehension, I have stipulated that the ideas informing our system as inherently superior.
                      The system itself has collapsed into folly over the last century. I'm not claiming that President Potted Plant, his administration, or any part of o

                    • Once more, and may the power of Heaven help your reading comprehension, I have stipulated that the ideas informing our system as inherently superior.

                      While saying that it comes from the one culture that you are concerned about. Hence you stated your culture to be superior. If you want to walk it back to try to sound less genocidal feel free to do so specifically; you've had many chances at a do-over but have passed on them all.

                      I'm not claiming that President Potted Plant, his administration, or any part of our government is superior to anything else.

                      That statement - specifically it's continuation of your us/them rhetoric (which is notably similar to classic Fascist rhetoric) - supports my statement more than it refutes it. You are arguing for yourself to be coming from a

                    • try to sound less genocidal

                      Genuinely curious exactly how you achieve this rhetorical leap.

                      Abortion has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

                      Your reply sort of 'sploded the discussion. But I still love you and forgive you all of your trollery.

                    • try to sound less genocidal

                      Genuinely curious exactly how you achieve this rhetorical leap.

                      Your overarching thesis in this discussion has been your belief that you are from a superior culture. You have said that repeatedly. Leaders who make that proclamation almost without fail embrace genocide in the interest of removing the inferior cultures from their lands, or even from the world.

                    • Your overarching thesis in this discussion has been your belief that you are from a superior culture.

                      Untrue, and I've explained why it's untrue, yet you flog that horse as though you'd try to make glue of it.
                      If I were writing a piece of fiction, I might make you some Inquisitor character seeking to brainwash a victim with your tomfoolery.
                      Next you will sculpt my words into WOOT.
                      I'm nearly moved to admire your technique.

                    • Your overarching thesis in this discussion has been your belief that you are from a superior culture.

                      Untrue

                      Then please take a moment and answer the question that has been my subject of this entire thread. You have yet to really answer it. The closest you've come to answering it to to state that your culture is the "whole culture". Then when we see your fear of it "collapsing" it shows that you fear other cultures. You also stated that you believe your "whole culture" is part of what brings people from other parts of the world to this country.

                      and I've explained why it's untrue

                      No, you have not. In fact you've done quite the opposite. Perha

                    • Look: "culture" is an instantaneous snapshot of a group of people. As a theological matter, we are all sinners in the eyes of God. To say that "my team is better than yours" is to overlook my own failings.

                      The ideals informing the founding of the U.S. form a break with the human tradition of thuggery based upon the aforementioned carnal failings.

                      Those ideals can an must be passed on to future generations, lest gaslighting Commie thugs from elsewhere come in with their Alinsky playbook and poison more min
                    • To say that "my team is better than yours" is to overlook my own failings.

                      And yet that did not prevent you from saying that. Or have you joined your GOP brethren in abandoning religion as being important to your decision making? You did after all help vote in the first non-believer POTUS.

                    • Attempting to gauge the spirituality of any public office holder is a risky play. My rule is to take whatever they have said most recently as an answer.
                    • To say that "my team is better than yours" is to overlook my own failings.

                      And yet that did not prevent you from saying that. Or have you joined your GOP brethren in abandoning religion as being important to your decision making? You did after all help vote in the first non-believer POTUS.

                      Attempting to gauge the spirituality of any public office holder is a risky play. My rule is to take whatever they have said most recently as an answer.

                      First of all, you've been in the group of people previously who were claiming President Lawnchair to be - at various times - either a closet Muslim or a phony Christian. Hence your assertion rings hollow compared to your own actions.

                      Second, Trump has destroyed three of his own marriages. He is a thief, a liar, and that's barely getting started. He rarely shows any interest in spirituality unless he can get a photo op from it. Don't pretend he has faith in anything other than the almighty dollar.

                    • President Personal Pronoun characterized himself as Christian. Period. Full stop. You're quite correct that others judged him otherwise.

                      Trump, I know, was raised Presbyterian.

                      I sincerely hope that both (and, indeed, everyone) come to know the meaning of life on a personal basis.
                    • Trump, I know, was raised Presbyterian.

                      That's a pointless backstory for someone who has openly trashed Christian values for decades. His actions suggest he looks at the 7 deadly sins as a todo list.

                    • That's a fair cop.
                    • To get back to the original point though - and to put aside all the distractions you've employed in this discussion - you have flatly claimed your culture to be superior. You've claimed specifically that your culture has benefited this country in ways that others have not. You've claimed that people from other lands want to come here because of your culture and what your culture has done for this country.

                      The mystery is how you don't see this leading to cultural genocide. Once you define any other cult
                    • Ahem: it's "our" culture, for some amount of common Venn diagram territory.

                      Once you define any other cultures to be inferior - which you inherently do when you claim yours to be superior

                      I've done nothing of the sort and I directly reject this postmodern, DranoO-snorting, gaslighting line of piffle. Go frobnicate yourself, sir.

                    • Once you define any other cultures to be inferior - which you inherently do when you claim yours to be superior

                      I've done nothing of the sort

                      You've already stated in this thread why you see your culture to be superior. In so doing, you defined other cultures to be inferior. That's how superiority works.

                    • Furthermore, "culture" is an instantaneous snapshot of the population. Are we really, scaled for population density, somehow intrinsically superior to any other set of 23-chromosome-paired human beings? I hardly think so.
                      Do we have a rounder wheel, in terms of the ideals informing our system? I think that the migration influx is all the empirical argument you need there.
                      However, while those ideals remain, I will agree that the Postmodern, Progressive Left has done a fabulous job of undermining those found
                    • Furthermore, "culture" is an instantaneous snapshot of the population. Are we really, scaled for population density, somehow intrinsically superior to any other set of 23-chromosome-paired human beings? I hardly think so.

                      You've already made that claim more than once.

                      Do we have a rounder wheel, in terms of the ideals informing our system? I think that the migration influx is all the empirical argument you need there.

                      Thank you for proving my point yet again. Anything else to say?

                      However, while those ideals remain, I will agree that the Postmodern, Progressive Left has done a fabulous job of undermining those founding ideals with ersatz garbage like this "Woke" noise.

                      Apparently not.

                    • You've already made that claim more than once.

                      Having been taking a lot of analytics courses over the last couple of years, I'm struck by the cognitive tendency in pretty much all human minds to:

                      1. Extract some data from reality
                      2. Run analytics on those data
                      3. Treat the result as though they were a thing

                      This is a natural process of feeding our pet predelictions, and they are occasionally helpful optimizations for navigating the day.

                      Trick is, as with Slashdot, not to take them too seriously.

                    • Your first reply in this thread [slashdot.org] stated

                      whose good nature has been so ruthlessly abused by those wishing this country to revert to the human-historical norm of the tyranny of the minority. We call them "globalists" now, but it's tantamount to a new aristocracy. Our folly has been to let globalists conquer us via debt.

                      Which is clearly a statement that you believe your culture to be superior to any kind of "globalist" culture. Later on you [slashdot.org] went into

                      I'm an unambiguous supporter of American Exceptionalism. Human history turned a corner with the 1787 Constitution.

                      and

                      The desire of others to come enjoy this liberty

                      Which is clearly you stating that the "culture" of America is what makes it - or will break it - and that you see the culture to be superior to other cultures.

                      Being as the culture that you partake in is largely imported from another part of the world, you are stating that your culture is therefore superior to cultures that were

                    • Which is clearly a statement that you believe your culture to be superior to any kind of "globalist" culture.

                      No, it isn't. Historians will, I feel, view this period as a sort of non-kinetic war.
                      There is an overt, propaganda-driven attack, of which your rhetorical assaults are a specimen.
                      Asserting a right to survival is by no means a declaration of superiority.
                      But do keep attacking and underscoring my point.

  • And it just took this long to notice.

"Intelligence without character is a dangerous thing." -- G. Steinem

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