It is certainly the case that we, as a species, are hell bent on killing each other over misunderstandings, jealousy, or power. I am saying, just imagne, for one minute, that money was spent on say, science and technology. How advanced our species would be by now. Defense spending has grown well out of proportion.

• $30 Billion per year to would end world hunger
• $17 Billion per year currently spent by the US on the Nasa space program
• $4.8 Billion per year currently spent by the US on cancer research

• And the US spends $1000 Billion+ on a plane, designed to kill. Imagine, if you can, a world without war, it's easy if you try.

Spies are already using shortwave radio, albeit using mostly goverment owned frequencies. This would be a great tool for them.

And go where?

Everyone is spying on everyone, thanks to governments world wide being persuaded to join the US NSA effort. It wouldn't be sooooo bad if it was just for security reasons, but it is clearly more for corporate greed than security.

I was receieving calls almost daily from similar companies on my cell phone. They would always come up as uknown numbers. I decided to install a phone call recorder on my Android phone. For the next few days I would still recieve calls from unknown numbers, I would still say 'hello', but the odd thing is the other end would just be silent and then... just hang up?! It is like they knew I was recording them. I haven't had any calls since. Very strange.

Sure, make that two. I have contracted to a company that used it for an extremely high load banking platform. I shouldn't feed trolls, but couldn't help it.

An estimated $100m USD. The winner sets the rules for the next one, so if New Zealand wins they will lower the cost, allowing more teams to able to compete.

Nicky Hager seems like he is more against broad spying powers, so to me it would be a little strange for him to side witht he NSA to leak specific information in order to remove Don Brash - although it wouldn't entirely surprise me either way.

The Dunne issue is very interesting, why should anyone be prosecuted for leaking information about the innapropriate use of spying? If the government has nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear right?

You are right, the problem is they are idiots. I honestly think Labour would have passed the bill if they were in power, and then National would be protesting it - it is all just a big puppet show. Even if the they wouldn't passed it, they would have made some other clamitous mistake - I have no faith in them at present. The question is, as a voter, who do you vote for in 2014? Time to become a politician I think.

As a kiwi, this does sadden me a bit. See my post above, I still think it is one of the most truely democratic and free countries in the world - this is what makes the passing of this bill even more shocking to me.

OP here. New Zealand has a Proportional Representation based governement. This makes it less of a two horse race as every vote counts. Quite minor parties will have representation in government. There are also quite small spending caps for campaigning leading up to elections. For the most part it works quite well, and I still believe it is one of the most truely democratic countries.

This is what makes all of this so much worse, it is the first time in living memory there has been such strong public opposition to a bill and it has been passed anyway. A recent poll suggests 89% of New Zealanders oppose the bill.

There is more than meets the eye here, the way the Prime Minister is forcing this through is very fishy to me, it seems like he is being pushed into it. Here is a quote from a recent press conference:

So, the Human Rights Commission, the Law Society and the general population don't want the bill to pass, and yet it does (just).

It is actually the American standard... The NSA is likely subsidising the GCSB