I don't think training a model with copyrighted data is any kind of gray zone at all.

Running inference against such a model _might_ be infringing.

But I don't see the legal argument that model training would be.

Think of model training as lossy data compression. You provide an input, it produces a compressed artifact, and it can no longer reproduce the original when you uncompress it. It can produce _something_. It cannot reproduce the original.

On slashdot, we all agree that format shifting copyrighted works should be allowed and unrestricted, right?

If there is applicable case law here about how lossy a "reproduction" can be before copyright has something to say about it, that would be relevant. Do you know of any?

I think you're repeating something that feels emotionally valid but in my experience, isn't factually (or legally) accurate.

I have found AI models to be frustratingly _obedient_ of copyright.

I'll be in a situation where I ask a specific question about what a document says, and the AI repeatedly says the work is copyrighted and it can't just tell me what it says _verbatim_, but it can answer specific questions for me in its own words (while telling me to check the original).

Two examples from my life are procedural questions about what Roberts Rules of Order would require in a given situation, and, what ASD STE-100 says about how to name/word things.

The applicable US law would appear to be USC 17 Sec 106 and 107, which on one hand limits derivative works, but on the other, allows fair use for purposes of teaching, scholarship, or research.

(USC references provided by AI, btw. Which I haven't read)

"But yeah like you said, never gonna happen. In most of the world there's a Caste system. And the Untouchables are at the top."

Boy howdy, have I got news for you!

Latest estimate I could find is that in San Francisco alone, Lyft gives something like 170,000 rides. Every day.

People forget that California is a huge market. There's a reason why when California changes its emission standards for vehicles, large automakers don't just go "well, fuck you, I'm not going to sell cars in California." It's a market that is extremely painful to walk away from, and virtually no major company has done that (two exceptions, before someone "well actually"s me: Firearms companies and insurance companies. But those market segments are meaningfully different -- insurance companies were simply seeing a bad market given fires and earthquakes, and California wants firearm companies to not do business in the state).

I'll acknowledge that Uber and Lyft did threaten to leave the state right before Proposition 22 was passed, giving them legal cover to continue to treat their employees unfairly. I suspect they'll threaten to do that again. They will not. I ain't losing sleep over that.

I used to agree with you, and then oddly enough, about 25-30 years ago, I came across this signature on another regular slashdot posters postings:

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

(AI tells me the attribution is "The Red Lily", Anatole France, 1894)

Yeah, that's true. And as a Lyft customer, that's a huge concern of mine. I live in the San Francisco area, so deep in California, and I worry that at some point Lyft will respond to this by moving all the cars and drivers they use to give people like me rides to Nevada.

The wait time for a driver to come from Nevada is going to suck

(generic gender) dude, have you even worked at a company before?

It's incredibly common to have people work at a place despite despising the CEO. I suspect that's actually the default. In the last 20 years, I've worked in exactly one place where I liked or admired the CEO, and a bunch of places, including my current employer, where I was fairly allergic to the CEO.

I hope tomorrow is a much better day to be you! You deserve a great day!

Oh man, this is so great. I saw the story title and I came here specifically to get the "I was into trek before it was woke" stupidity. I had not expected it to literally be the first post!

Dude, Robert, drink some raw milk, relax, and go back to filming the Real Food Show. Everything will be fine, friend. And if it's not, why not try to eat some roadkill bear? It'll undoubtedly make you feel better.

I like your perspective overall, but you're fundamentally wrong about the use of a driver's license during a traffic stop -- it's used to identify you, so they can also run you for warrants. It's not just about whether or not you're currently licensed to drive.

lol don't worry. I feel the same about your house heating.

You will not die inside your house from not having heating. People survived for millennia without natural gas furnaces. Turn your furnace off! Just put on more clothes!

"built to contain heat". sigh. I'm not going into a thermodynamics discussion. Seems like europeans can't grasp the concept that insulation works both ways.

Anyways, get an AC for the living room and use a fan to push the cool air into your bedroom at night. Yes, it's not ideal. But sleeping on 40C is worse.

And also something something "60 kg AC". yeah, you're doing it wrong. I just checked and my 7000W Daikin is less than 30kg for the heavy part (the outdoor unit).

As for the install, I got tired of idiots here doing terrible jobs. I just bought all of the tools and nowadays I install and service my own air conditioners and have zero regrets. And no, you don't need any license to do this: the refrigerant is inside the outdoor unit from the factory, so at least for the initial install (and for the next 10 years if you do it right) you will not need any refrigerant.

You tried to be snarky and all you said was the exact same thing I did, just more verbosely.

Do you do that in the winter too? 10C with a couple of sweaters is quite a pleasant temperature too...

This is my favorite response to these idiots. If you don't need air conditioning, then you don't need heating either. They talk about how amazing their houses are in the winter because they "retain heat" and whatever bullshit, but they actively heat it.

Turn the heating off, or shut the fuck up about AC.