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Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 443

So our final result is 2.62e16 / 8.77e23, or 1/3.35e7

one in 33 million isn't one in a billion, so I would also be interested in seeing their math, but the conclusion that the selection was biased seems to be fairly well supported.

The question is though, arr all of the applicants assumed to be equal in all qualifications? Have some come from a placement service like ITT? which has been discredited.

And like it or not, since we are dealing with Asians, have some been state sponsored? There are issues with organizations dealing with issues of a secure or sensitive issues and state sponsored foreign actors..

Mere numbers of applicants are not telling the entire story.

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 443

Okay, I'll answer your question. The premise is ridiculous

Yes, or at least very unlikely. Narrow it to two people and it becomes more likely. But it was foremost a test case to get some active thought going. Separating a social goal from fairness on a personal level.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that is somehow the case. I'd probably pull a name out of a hat or something.

annnnnd..... You pass! Very good. In a problem with no good answer, no satisfactory solution that doesn't offend someone, no fairness to the individuals, you cast race and gender aside, and use plain random chance. Which of course is the only logical answer.

In a world of agendas, and people who are promoting their own agenda over other's agendas, and where rational thought is precious scarce, some times ya gotta just employ chance.

And I apologize for badgering ya (sincerely) but I do this kinda shit some times.

Comment Re:Who cares if they actually help (Score 1) 126

APPLE!

I guess all those studies saying these devices are actually counter productive don't matter when APPLE!

makes sense tho capitalism was always more important than science in the ol' US of A!

There is a much bigger picture here.

The damn things don't have to work at all. What they do is give teh company the ability to blame the victim when something bad happens to their health. It's a clever ploy actually

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 443

What part of "fair" don't you understand?

Th e part where you define fair - Now define it. And I suppose that you aren't going to answer my question about who you are going to hire, the white woman, the African ethnicity of any gender, or the asian.

Tell me, since you are the one who clearly says I do not undertand "fair". TEach me, this might be th emoment where I gain some insight, and I would be forever grateful to be schooled in something I have no idea of.

You say you do.

So which one is it Animojo? Two of the three are not going to have a job, all are considered underrepresented, and you decide based on you knowing what is fair. Who gets the job, and who does not?

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 443

A company should spend time looking at their affirmative action programs, not just metrics.

The deathstar problem is however, you get sued by the metrics. It's like the silly no child left behind schooling. Thy teach to the test, and only the test. If the kid actually lerns anything they don't give a damn. And if the test scores aren't good enough, the school is punished.

The metrics, as it were.

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 2) 443

Basically it comes down to having a responsibility to check for reasonable fairness and do something when it becomes apparent that there is an issue.

Fire the non-asian people? Make a ruling that no one but asians are hired until this fairness is achieved? What is fair? And then, what do we do about other groups that are underrepresented? Will there come a time when a white woman is not hired and is passed over by a asian male? Is that in keeping with the demands for inclusiveness?

That means collecting the stats and when you see something like this identifying the problem and taking steps to rectify it.

As I noted, since there is a multiplicity of demands for inclusiveness, that in order to comply with them, someone is going to lose based not on their ability to do the job, but where their anscesters came from.

It looks like the issue is understood, the lawsuit cites the reason why it is happening, so really there isn't much excuse for not fixing it.

Yes, eliminating networking, and hiring exclusively a particular enthinicity, as the overarching criteria of the job, perhaps fireing some, until the company reflect the proper diversity.

I don't know your ethnicity, but would you give up your job for hiring someone of a different ethnicity? I didn't give up my job, but I gave up three promotions so a woman could get promoted. There was a quota system on promotions, and I voluntarily gave up deserved promotions for a female. It didn't work out for the place, since they left. But I do understand that in real life, it isn't always fair.

As to how to fix it, use less recommendations and more objective hiring.

It's got nothing to do with quotas, they are a bad way to address the issue. That's why the only people who suggest them are people who oppose diversity. They are not needed here.

The problem is of course, that in a numbers or percentages based system, you have to deal with numbers as a measurement of success. Otherise you throw out all of the numbers altogether.

What you are suggesting if you use as little as possible a quota as possible, is that since a 75 percent figure was claimed as the asian applicants, with 21 positions filled, anything other than 15.75 asian hires is racist.I guess one of them has to be a pregnant female.

That would be accepting that entering an application makes all potential employees as qualified as each other. So 75 percent is an inviolable number, and must be adhered to, otherwise you will be sued.

And that, sir, would be the very definition of a quota.

Now we are going to get uncomfortable. Who gets a job between 3 equal candidates, a white woman, a non gender specific person of African descent, or an asian male? The implied inequality is simple when it's a male of European descent, let's just in this case discard those in order to avoid a lawsuit, because hiring one might put you over your limit. Not hiring the white male is an easy decision, but not so much when the underrepresented groups become pitted against each other. Challenge, make your choice of the first three. No need for your rationalization, just your choice. Who gets the job?

And no, Animojo, I don't oppose diversity, nor do I care for your implicit accusation that I do. I do however, not ascribe to simplistic ideas as to what constitutes diversity. My questions are uncomfortable, piss people off, and perhaps constitute a learning experience.

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 443

They are not alleging active discrimination, they are saying that the company tended to go with personal recommendations which created unintentional bias. The company has a responsibility to ensure fairness.

How does one ensure "fairness"? Do the individual employees have to broaden their social circles to include more asians? Or is the referral system something to be eliminated? These really aren't trivial questions, as if the paramount goal is inclusiveness of all ethnicities, races, genders, sexual orientation, religion, and whatever else makes things "fair" is going to be almost impossible to coexist with a referral process that is based upon an employee's familiarity with a potential hire's suitability for a job.

As well, is the determinant factor local ratios of asians to others, or global ratios. State or National.

And what happens when there are conflicts, such as which quota is being adhered to? Is a woman who is asian working toward fulfilling two quota requirements? or just one? This is also not a trivial question, as it is possible to have mixtures that end up making the overall quota requirement fulfillment look good, but in terms of actual numbers, every person who is eligible for multiple quota fulfillment is actually depriving another person of underrepresented groups employment because of the multiple quota criteria.

I mainly bring this up because of that odd 20 percent hire rate. And if it's not active discrimination, what the hell are they suing for? It either is, or it isn't. If you get a workplace in Silicon Valley that has no asians or women or people of African descent, or the Huffington Post's all white woman and one asian woman boardroom meeting, that is pretty obvious that there's something going on, and it's active intentional discrimination. 20 percent asian hires though? Might be just people's networking going on. As a lawsuit action, what is the remedy? You can't have a lawsuit without a remedy. That's what I am interested in

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 443

It's wrong to discriminate against an entire group of people based on that statistic.

Then again, there was that 20 percent asian hire rate.

It would seem that in a company that was actively discriminating against asians, the numbers of hires would be a lot closer to 0%

I wonder what the ethnicity is of an American of African descent marries a Scotch Irish person, and they have an offspring who then marries a person from China, who then have some children.

Scotch Irish "white", black, or asian?

Comment Re:State sponsored corporate spies (Score 1) 443

In either case you could simply make some minimal effort to vet the person in question, rather than just applying dubious statistical biases.

And of course, that's not what's happening here anyway.

I use "asians" in quotes, because that's a really nebulous term.

Speaking of statistics, there were 21 people hired, and 17 were "non-asian" and 4 were "asian"

Now here's the problem when we go down the rabbit hole of stats, percentages, and hiring by race.

What were the numbers of hires that were of African descent?

What were the numbers of hires that identified as female?

In a business that is presumably racist, what was the situation that led the company to hire "asians" as 20 percent of the hires during this period.

From the article: "The likelihood that this result occurred according to chance is approximately one in a billion," said the lawsuit,

Yeah - I'm going to have to call bullshit on that - I'd love to see that math.

But then, according to the article The majority of Palantir's hires as engineering interns, as well as two other engineering positions, "came from an employee referral system that disproportionately excluded Asians,"

And both the comments are from the lawsuit, so I give them veracity as an integral part of the lawsuit

Well, right there is your answer. These interns and two engineering positions came from employee referrals.

In my professional life, I'm exposed to a lot of different ethnicities, but if I referred every "asian" for placement in an open position, and no non "asians" at all, and they all were hired, it might hit 20 percent, of which this lawsuit is considered racially discriminating.

So what this is actually an attack against is the process of referral. Should a referral of a known non-"asian" who might have a great track record, be disregarded for an unknown "asian" person, or even more importantly, if referrals are to become verboten, should a non-"asian" be not hired and an "asian" of known flaws be hired?

So perhaps the process of employees giving assessments of people they know is what is considered racist. That's actually a little scary, because it means an employee who knows a person as a bad actor will then not be allowed to make commentary on that.

Comment Re: Comment (Score 1) 310

Depends on whether they use the age reversing tech, see young Arnie in Terminator: Gensys or the young Bridges in Tron:Legacy.

These are some strange times we live in man, we got Elvis on tour with the TCB band via video, you have holograms bringing Ronnie James Dio and Tupac back from the grave, and you can have a 70 year old and his 28 year old self in the same scene interacting. Hell give it a couple more years and I really wouldn't be surprised if they put out a new movie with Marilyn Monroe or James Dean as that seems to be the direction we are headed.

Comment Re:Microsoft Update Catalog is my new hero (Score 1) 221

So you are literally arguing that command prompts are magic? Or are you arguing that you cannot read?

Because you don't HAVE to use the GUI if you do not want to, you can just run the scripts straight from the folder and simply throw away the GUI if you want as all it is doing is simply editing a script called "update" that is in the parent folder right next to the GUI. Throw away the GUI and run the script, which again you can just open in any editor and guess what? It does exactly what the GUI does, installs the updates with the conditional flags you chose. The options you choose? Again all just basic scripts with easy to read descriptors like "install DotNET" "InstallOfficeUpdates" and "MakeLogFile" and anyone who can read even the most basic script can read these quite easily as they are all laid out in classic "if this then that" script language with no attempts at any obfuscation.

So I'm sorry but now you are either just trying to sling FUD or you honestly do not understand how virii work and think computers are magical black boxes that some boogeyman can wave a wand and create a bug. Scripting is something anyone with any kind of IT knowledge or support background is not gonna have any trouble reading, the websites being called to download the updates are the Windows Update site owned by MSFT so unless MSFT gets their own update servers pwned there is no issue there, and once you have downloaded the updates no network or third party programs or even the GUI itself is required as it is simply manually installing Windows Updates from a command line.

Comment Re:Missing the point (Score 1) 84

Yeah, that's what they are - load levelers at best. They're not replacements and NEVER will be.

You are missing that they don't actually have ot be attached to a grid. I can easily generate all the power that I need from solar. Wind isn't practical in my house location.

All I'm waiting for is the right moment.

I've found All of the naysaying by your ilk to be way off. My local energy use through using devices that use a lot less energy, and by properly insulating have exceeded the naysaer's predictions by an incredible amount. Installed a top efficiency gas furnace that extracts so much heat that the "chimney" is 2 inch PVC pipe, as well as the intake. No inside air is heated and vented. Along with an extra layer of insulation in the attic, and I am spending per year what most locals are spending a month for heating. Damn thing has paid for itself in 3 years, not the 20 or "never" the naysayers claim. Same with turning all of the lighting into LED's. I'm paying 50 dollars a month for electrical service, and I have a freaking outside hot tub. Yeah, I bought a highly insulated one.

And I'll be off the grid as soon as solar power and energy storage hits the right price point, combined with the right point of conservation. And I haven't given up a darned thing - I live at a high comfort level.

Meanwhile those local smarter folk, some how are paying over a grand a month for heat, which is a lot more than what I'm paying per year and a few hundred dollars a month for electricity, 4 times my level, are on the smart track. Or not.

Comment Re:How many of those... (Score 3, Insightful) 153

Does this count the huge numbers that took the free upgrade, found they didn't like it (or just wanted to lock in the upgrade) and then went back? Does this count units sold to stores but not through to end users?

This is why I don't buy the numbers put out by companies, there is just too many ways they can manipulate the data to make it look bigger than the actual figures indicate.

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