"That's exactly my point"

Not a very good one.

"Commuting and using a tool for a work-related activity are not analogue one with another."

The *CAR* is the "tool" in the analogy, not the action.. I stand by my original post.

"I take it you don't get a salary? That you get paid by the second?"

I'm an "exempt" employee in California. Salary for over 2 decades.

I also turned down a company car to use my own. I get paid for "miles". $0.70 per. I do not get paid miles going to my office-- but from my office to any given site. At least during M-F. Sometimes I need to hit a site on the weekend, and miles start the moment I leave the driveway of my home.

There is zero expectation that my 8 hours start when I start my drive in to the office. It starts when I arrive. And yes, it's not uncommon (particularly during projects) that I work well over 8 hours. When that happens, we get comp-time at some point in the future.

"People expect to be paid for commute time too, at least in the sense that they will want more money if the commute is longer. Work from home made just coming to the office at all something which people want more money for."

People (employees) make that choice. They might take a longer commute for a job that pays more. It's not up to the employer to PAY for that commute ON TOP of their pay rate for a given job -- at least in my opinion.

"By that reasoning commuting with a vehicle provided by the employer should count as work time..."

Sigh....

You quoted me. There was more to what you were replying to than what you quoted. Read the rest:

"I would suggest that analogies are never "perfect" or "exact" -- they basically highlight similar bits of two different things to HOPEFULLY illustrate some concept or idea. If you are expecting it to be a 100% match, I think you might be misunderstanding what an analogy is."

I stand by my comparison. If the tool I'm provided is an employer-provided workstation, I should get paid the moment I start using it. If the tool I'm provided is a citrix session across a secure connection, I should get paid the moment I connect to it from my home PC.

Don't like the commute analogy? I would suggest that analogies are never "perfect" or "exact" -- they basically highlight similar bits of two different things to HOPEFULLY illustrate some concept or idea. If you are expecting it to be a 100% match, I think you might be misunderstanding what an analogy is.

I think that might matter. Running software through something like a citrix session via a secure connection on their home PC might negate any "when did they actually start working" argument. Much like I don't start getting paid the moment I hop in my car to go to work.

Kind of like a "digital" comminute.

I can fly out of Warsaw, Copenhagen, Vienna, or Berlin (have done all four in the past year) within the EU and not be subject to an ID check (or really, much stricter security than in pre-9/11 days in the US).

MS Windows has essentially become malware, forcing software and UX changes on its users without their consent ... it's the adware model from the 00s, except commercialized.

When it comes to AI adoption, Sam Altman has as much respect for the public's consent as he did for his sister's consent.

Utah is basically Saudi Arabia West, theocratic police state ... it's a shame that the Mormon faith was allowed to continue to exist in the US after the Mountain Meadows pogrom.

Your comment shows how normalized violence and abuse by American cops is.

At least in Snow Crash, the central government was fairly weak and inept.

You shouldn't be required to identify yourself to anyone unless conducting an activity that requires public licensure (i.e. driving) or suspected of a crime with a reasonable level of suspicion. No, government vermin shouldn't be stopping people on the street at random and demanding that they account for themselves.

It's complicated. Most EU countries have biometric ID cards, but they're checked and recorded much less frequently. Scanning ID to buy a beer would be seen as abhorrent in most EU countries. I've flown "domestically" within the EU in the last year without any kind of ID check. By contrast, with TSA, you have to identify yourself, and even with Amtrak, you have to give name AND exact DOB to buy a ticket.

Pig mask. A.C.A.B.