Blaxxun VRML Browser Source Released 64
Cave Newt writes "The Web3D Consortium just released the source code to Blaxxun's CC3D VRML browser, which Blaxxun kindly donated in order to seed the development of a fully conformant, completely open and preferably multi-platform VRML browser. Pretty darned cool. "
Re:Open? Hardly... (Score:1)
Your coverage of banned places is too large. The places banned are the ones on the US export control list. The Blaxxun folks are just covering their tails with this sort of language. The reality is that the source is out there. How well does this restriction work for PGP? Here is the text of that part:
2.3 U.S. Export Restrictions. Web3D acknowledges that the Code and all related technical information, documents and materials are subject to export controls under the U.S. Export Administration Regulations. In connection with its rights hereunder, Web3D will: (a) comply strictly with all legal requirements established under these controls; (b) cooperate fully with blaxxun in any official or unofficial audit or inspection that relates to these controls; and (c) not export, re-export, divert or transfer, directly or indirectly, any such item or direct products thereof to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria or any national thereof or to any country or national thereof that is embargoed by Executive Order, unless Web3D has obtained the prior written authorization of blaxxun and the U.S. Commerce Department. Upon notice to Web3D, blaxxun may modify this list to conform to changes in the U.S. Export Administration Regulations.
-Alan Hudson
Chair Source Code Management Task Group
www.web3d.org/TaskGroups/source [web3d.org]
Desperate move by a dying company (Score:1)
Like every Internet-related startup, they had their followers in the beginning, but now, after 4 years, what have they achieved? Is anybody seriously using their stuff? Are they making any real money? Heck, they don't even have any noticeable press covering recently! And that's where "Open Source" comes into play. It won't save that company, but at least it created some press echo again.
Re:Open? Hardly... (Score:2)
2.1 The Web3D Consortium grants to you ?Licensee? a non-transferable, nonexclusive, royalty-free, limited license to use a copy of the VRML COMPONENT CODE in the United States, Canada, Japan, Australia and the European Union, exclusively for non-commercial use in connection with research and development. Licensee acquires no right, title or interest in or to the Licensed VRML COMPONENT CODE other than the limited rights granted in this License. All modifications, enhancements and bug fixes made by or for Licensee to the Licensed VRML COMPONENT CODE may not be offered for sale or reuse without including notification of all pertaining copyrights retained by copyright owners, including blaxxun interactive.
VRML only open 3D format (Score:1)
Re:Open? Hardly... (Score:1)
Will check into it. Thank you. I hate reading legalize!
Re:Unless I'm missing something... (Score:1)
Playfulness in 3D spaces [shirky.com] - Why Quake, written to scratch an itch, is so much better than VRML, a solution in search of a problem, and what to do about i
Nice news for ecommerce (Score:1)
Not that this is entirely good news for everyone (especially the segment of
No doubt people who want to sell us stuff (whether it's advertising pageviews - yes, those are bought and sold - or conventional goods and services) will jump on the bandwagon, since the longer they can keep you there means the longer that they have to pitch to you - and that means greater sales.
--
Where to get cosmoplayer for now (Score:1)
>down for months.
Like any large organisation, CAI (who own Cosmo Player now) has lots of people in it working on
different things in different ways.
It does seem like VRML is Too Open for some people
there right now (or something), but others are
working hard to get cosmosoftware back up again.
In the meantime, I run a mirror at www.karmanaut.com/cosmo/player/ [karmanaut.com]. I host versions for Mac and Windoze, and link to SGI for the IRIX version. Sure, it's a 3 MB download, but what do you expect for cyberspace? This is a bigger deal than some HTML parser, kids. How big is Q3Test for Linux? 33MB? I agree that crowbarring cyberspace into a browser plugin is a stupid idea - but we've got to start somewhere.
Where we go next is for another post
3D Browsers (Score:1)
Not all of the fear and loathing is deserved... (Score:1)
First, while some of the license provisions are regrettable (most notably the ones that effectively exclude South America and much of Asia), the fact remains that just about any source is better than no source. There are plenty of people for whom having a professionally coded, general-purpose, 3D code base will be a huge boon regardless of the license provisions. For everyone else, the situation really hasn't gotten any worse--and yes, I am taking into account the other, truly Open Source VRML projects like Chris Morley's LibVRML97/lookat browser. I don't see a license like this drawing away more than a tiny trickle of OSS developers, if even that.
Second, while VRML certainly never took the world by storm and is distinctly less lively now than it was at its height a couple of years ago, it remains a very useful tool for prototyping, displaying and exchanging 3D objects. I've used it at work to create quick, animated mockups of internal projects, and at home to explore what an addition to my house might look like. I even used it to demonstrate some trig functions once. Was it necessary for that? No, but the ability to zoom way, way out really got the point across about asymptotes and infinities. Some of the best content I've ever seen has been 3D scientific visualizations--hurricanes, planetary magnetospheres, USGS elevation data, Mars Pathfinder, Tenochtitlan, you name it. And Floops, Driftwood, Dilbert and MODvr [modvr.com] may never have had big audiences, but they were more compelling than almost any other content I've seen on the Net.
Finally, if you're looking for Snow Crash-like VR, there's no question that something like ActiveWorlds comes much closer to the mark than just about anything in VRML--if only because of the vast scale [vevo.com] that's possible in a database-driven, custom 3D application like AW. But don't hold your breath waiting for a Linux client. The company only has a few developers, and last I checked, everything was very tightly tied to RenderWare. Possibly there's a Linux port of that (RW) in the works, but I haven't heard about it.
Anyway, while I don't think too much of the current Web3D efforts to create a VRML successor (X3D), I do appreciate that they've managed to get some source code out. Yes, it would be a whole lot cooler with a real OSS license (NPL, say), but it's a reasonable first step. And who knows, maybe blaxxun will ease up on the terms after getting some constructive (i.e., non-flaming) feedback. One can hope.
Greg Roelofs
Good thing to see (Score:1)
Open? Hardly... (Score:4)
EUA [web3d.org], Web3d/Blaxxun Agreement [web3d.org], Amusing addendum [web3d.org]
Finally some VRML action. (Score:2)
I was so excited that Cosmo's software and
source were going to be released, then SGI
sold them to Platinum, then Platinum got
bought out, and I was stuck without a good
VRML authoring kit.
It's good the the Blaxxun source is published.
It'll mean better vrml browsers on any platform
that has open source coders. Blaxxun's software
seems pretty good, but I don't have much
experience with it.
I'm just glad that SOMETHING is happening in the
VRML world.
J05H
OK (Score:2)
Can we finally say, the technology did not work out, forget it, try something else... ?
Not open source, not good for the VRML community (Score:3)
Blaxxun probably released it in an attempt to subvert mindshare away from the OpenVRML group and others now starting up that want to make a truly open source VRML browser.
As for "the Web3D Consortium", they will cut a deal with anyone who will pay their bills or keep them in the drivers seat in behalf of their corporate sponsors: Microsoft, Blaxxun, SGI, Sony, Apple, ect.
They had lofty goals. Politics and money have made it impossible for any of them to be acheived. This deal is no exception.
Good, but... (Score:4)
Yes, it was overhyped, but don't trash it already (Score:5)
Yes, VRML was overhyped to the maximum, so much that most everyone started hating it; but if you consider it, VRML _is_ a good idea done _right_.
Just think of today's market in consumer computer graphics. Current low-cost graphics cards for standard PCs have the 3D processing power that was exclusively available to high end graphics workstations only a very short time ago. The vast majority of today's computers are equipped with 3D graphics cards. And the only product research made by graphics card manufacturers is in the 3D sector.
And of course the games market, that is driving this technology. There is practically _no_ 2D game available today. When I first saw Doom-like first person shooters, I never expected to see games like we have today - I too thought that 3D was "just a trend".
I'm pretty sure that there will be a need for 3D in internet applications and I am glad that VRML is here already as a working solution. It's not as important as its inventors claimed it would be, but it's certainly more than "just a trend" and surely more than a failure.
Correct me if I'm wrong... (Score:1)
there're reasons VRML isn't taking off (Score:5)
In a word, it sucks and here's why.
The concept behind VRML is exactly that of HTML. It's a markup language. While this is sufficient for stuff you read and browse through, it's not sufficient for an interactive environment.
VRML comes in world files which generally have a
If you hit a particular link, it loads up another
While this method is fine for web pages.. it's *not* fine for an interactive 3D environment. That's the problem... you need something more interactive than a highly-static format.
There are *some* facilities for doing things dynamically with VRML, but from what I saw, they were mainly hacks with javascript etc that look like they weren't really planned during the original design.
The sum of this analysis is that taking what works for web browsing and just 'doing it in 3D' is not the right philosophy.
Here's a fair example, you can't do anything dynamic that would require changes to the wrl file loaded in the browser. To do that.. you have to reload the wrl file... which is unreasonable.
Almost any sort of behavior the objects you create are going to have... has to be predefined in the
VRML is unpopular for a reason.
What can VRML really do, anyway? (Score:1)
Assuming this event kick-starts a wave of VRML development now that hackers can play with source, what's there to do with it? Build it into some games? I'm not trying to poor-mouth Blaxxun; I just don't see why people will think this is will lead to delivery of cooler 3-D imagery over the Net. Correct my ignorance, please.
Check this out (Score:1)
VRML.
Has a listing for WIRL by Vream.
tried the link to example virtual worlds
pulled up a porn site, and I'm at work!
damn, damn I say
I guess vREAM appealed to the new URL owner.
Virtual Reality Mark-up Language (Score:1)
At some point in time I lost line of VRML. It became a nothing. I was too consumed with the latest version of HTML and the most up to date browsers that, not surprisingly, have created their own versions of HTML. Why when something is multi-platform do they have to tinker with it so that it truely isn't? Are they showing us who's boss? VRML should have been a break though... but it was a flop. It's all about marketting... or maybe it's just that people aren't ready... most people never are so I think the most logical would be the best answer.
This stuff is old new... throwing a bunch of kindling into the fire that went out won't start it up again.
Re:Bunch of lazy bastards (Score:1)
Actually, no. You aren't required to contribute your changes back into the source pool. If you drop them a letter, make sure you read the license very carefully first, or any legitimate problems will get lost in the noise.
Unless I'm missing something... (Score:1)
What, exactly, is VRML supposed to accomplish?
Re:there're reasons VRML isn't taking off (Score:1)
I think some advancements in vrml technology will come in time just like java technology.
higher bandwidth is the best breath of air for VRML, but also maybe following along with the Jar format, where you download a wrl container and work as an Object, or download a group of containers and work as a scene.
If someone released a true "open sourced" vrml, then i'm sure it could be dropped into mozilla as a library rather then an external plugin.
working in a manufacturing environment, and building maintenance would be a dream come true. click through your project, and not have to load up your cad software, or simply walk through the building and have temperatures show up, and what staff is in each room, who's logged in/punched in and such. Since most of this is controlled from a computer, why not use VRML and html and javascript to represent your building as a scene and let you click through instead of constantly walking around.. with javascript you could add triggars, alarms and do whatever you heart desires.
just some ideas, but vrml has its place, if you think of it as a modeling language and not simply html sending you a 3d picture.
vrml, wrong technology at the wrong time (Score:1)
I'm afraid while lot's of people where poring over the latest vrml specs (myself included) they might just have seen the flash out of the corner of their eyes of game companies creating realtime 3d game engines that are turning the game business ( and more traditional business ) on it's head.
Re:vrml, wrong technology at the wrong time (Score:1)
http://www.unrealty.net/vsmm99/
Yay, finally a VRML browser might appear on Linux (Score:1)
Despite what many people think, VRML2 is actually a pretty advanced, extensible and downright useful file format.
It is node-based and therefore supports complex activity. The way VRML 2 works reminds me a lot of the way high-end 3D programs like Maya are architected.
While i haven't used it much recently (since i haven't been able to get a browser for Linux), i think it is actually a really good foundation for a pervasive 3D imaging model.
It is based on ASCII text, which might make some of the hardcore go 'pfft', but theres no reason that it can't incorporate binary file formats, like BSP trees using EXTERNPROTOs.. the code to handle the binary data, if it is defined in the EXTERNPROTO can be dynamically loaded at runtime, that is a VRML browser can be extended in any way you like through a standard, documented mechanism.
take a look at what LivePicture did with their Panoramas - these were implemented as VRML2 EXTERNPROTOs, which were displayed in a cut-down VRML2 browser, and if they had finsihed what they started, this type of object (now very popular) could have been displayed without any extra effort by all compliant VRML2 browsers.
While the Quake/Unreal game engines are wonderful things, which support excellent performance, they are limited in many ways, and just aren't as approachable to the newbie as VRML2 is.
I can sit down and build a VRML2 world in an ASCII text editor, its a much more daunting task to make a Quake Level, even with emacs
Anyway, i strongly support this move, but would call for Blaxxun to go GPL goddamnit. All these 'Community Source' licenses just make developers nervous.
The GPL protects Blaxxun, by making sure their competitors can't directly profit (in a financial sense) from your generosity and effort. Plus, they get to say they were the first to support a truly open and cross-platform web standard. VRML won't go anywhere without a community, and if they want adoption by the Linux community, then i'd say the only way is with the GPL.
Otherwise, this will just incite the GNU people to write a truly free alternative e.g. GNOME vs KDE, and lets face it, nobody really wants to see another attempt to reinvent the VRML browser.
my 2c
Yay, finally a VRML browser might appear on Linux (Score:1)
Despite what many people think, VRML2 is actually a pretty advanced, extensible and downright useful file format.
It is node-based and therefore supports complex activity. The way VRML 2 works reminds me a lot of the way high-end 3D programs like Maya are architected.
While i haven't used it much recently (since i haven't been able to get a browser for Linux), i think it is actually a really good foundation for a pervasive 3D imaging model.
It is based on ASCII text, which might make some of the hardcore go 'pfft', but theres no reason that it can't incorporate binary file formats, like BSP trees using EXTERNPROTOs.. the code to handle the binary data, if it is defined in the EXTERNPROTO can be dynamically loaded at runtime, that is a VRML browser can be extended in any way you like through a standard, documented mechanism.
take a look at what LivePicture did with their Panoramas - these were implemented as VRML2 EXTERNPROTOs, which were displayed in a cut-down VRML2 browser, and if they had finsihed what they started, this type of object (now very popular) could have been displayed without any extra effort by all compliant VRML2 browsers.
While the Quake/Unreal game engines are wonderful things, which support excellent performance, they are limited in many ways, and just aren't as approachable to the newbie as VRML2 is.
I can sit down and build a VRML2 world in an ASCII text editor, its a much more daunting task to make a Quake Level, even with emacs
Anyway, i strongly support this move, but would call for Blaxxun to go GPL goddamnit. All these 'Community Source' licenses just make developers nervous.
The GPL protects Blaxxun, by making sure their competitors can't directly profit (in a financial sense) from your generosity and effort. Plus, they get to say they were the first to support a truly open and cross-platform web standard. VRML won't go anywhere without a community, and if they want adoption by the Linux community, then i'd say the only way is with the GPL.
Otherwise, this will just incite the GNU people to write a truly free alternative e.g. GNOME vs KDE, and lets face it, nobody really wants to see another attempt to reinvent the VRML browser.
my 2c
Re:Good, but... (Score:1)
I believe that I read somewhere that Silicon Graphics (before they were SGI) wrote a 3D-Web Based-stock-price-analysis (Wow, buzzwords plus) thing in VRML that the New York Stock Exchange liked so much they bought.
It would be pretty cool... Neuromancer like.
Don't blame the phone for the message (Score:2)
You don't blame manufacturers of kitchen knives for domestic murder. A nuclear missile can be used to deflect an Earth-destroying asteroid as well as to perform genocide.
The technology is neutral. Where blame is required, place it where it is due, squarely on the people that put technology to bad use.
Useful if you need to share files... (Score:1)
(shameless plug): I've got some VRML molecules on my web page
http://www.biochemistry.bham.ac.uk/gcoates/rese
Re:What can VRML really do, anyway? (Score:1)
3D is destined to become a major part of the 'net. VRML is poorly suited for anything better than novelty worlds, but much of the idea behind it is good. Once someone creates a language/protocol with real interactivity, then things will start happending, fast. But this is an important first step toward growing the VR user base to critical mass. If anything VRML-like is to suceed, it needs a better implementation than a web browser plug-in.
-- mblagusz@DELETEMEalleg.edu
I'm not sure this VRML solution has what we need (Score:1)
-- Moondog
Re:there're reasons VRML isn't taking off (Score:1)
Another example, is the near impossibility of having a chat-type application in VRML. I want an object in my wrl file to have a socket associated with it etc.
Another beef I had with VRML is the emphasis on javascript.... I don't have any bones to pick with javascript, but I just don't think it'll go anywhere without working with perl in a nice integrated fashion.
Several 'experts' have recommended that I look at Java3D for future applications. This comes from some of the very few people out there who do have VRML sites.
Does it work on linux? I dunno.. when I get up the strength to make another foray into the 3D world... I'll try it.
Useful VRML in eCommerce (Score:1)
Armed with a simple IE5 browser, a CosmoPlayer plug-in and the login info below, you can say, "oh, yeah, ok, I guess that works"
http://cap.sweets.com
CAP Products>>Offices Online>>Demo
user: pmoore-d
pass: cap
Add some stuff to the cart, click on its teeny graphic, choose the 3D button(pause for plug-in), click in the viewer to fling it around...
I'd be interested in your complaints-
paul_moore@mcgraw-hill.com
For another approach(not VRML) try:
styleclick.com
eonreality.com
Blaxxun (Score:1)
BTW, The Blaxxun community server was ported to Linux YEARS ago, and they were always very upfront about it, recommending the Linux version over the NT version.
blaxxun and VRML (Score:1)
http://web3d.about.com/library/weekly/aa100699.htm
Sandy Ressler
(Web3D Guide for About.com)
I'm not sure 3D is always better... (Score:1)
Oh, speaking of isometric views... you say, "There is practically _no_ 2D game available today"? I would point out that the best selling game (both recently, and ever) is Starcraft... very 2D. The same can be said for Diablo, CIV(all of them), and many others. They are good games because they focus more on ease of user interface, and playability than eye-candy. Because of this, they all out sold Wolfenstein, and they all out sold Quake.
Now, for those of you who may have suffered at the hands of unnecessarily 3D games (i.e Daggerfall), how would you feel about being unable to see the relevant portions of your web page or spreadsheet, without having to rotate it just so? I personally hate that sort of thing. So while VRML may be pretty cool, I sure doubt it will be replacing 2D web browsing anytime soon.
Re:I'm not sure 3D is always better... (Score:1)
More Open 3D source - see Gel (Score:1)
Probally scared of Shout3D comin' out soon. (Score:1)
Re: Another Reason (Score:1)
Overhyped. A bit more complex than it needed to be.
MS hype about thier 3d interface, which now no longer exists.
I don't see it for games, games have thier own high-performance 3d engines.
Chat. 3D chat. Hype.
Science and Art. Yes.
It is a really good file format. You can make prototypes with real world names so that groups of users can write vrml by hand (or by script).
I don't want to write in Java3d. I want to write the visualizations.
The X3d will hopefully lower some of the requirements.
This is almost entirely incorrect. (Score:3)
The concept behind VRML is exactly that of HTML. It's a markup language
It's not a markup language. The 'M' in VRML is 'Modeling'. Virtual Reality Modeling Laguage. What would it mark-up? It began as a standard way to describe objects in 3D and proceeded from there. Proceeded a lot, actually.
There are *some* facilities for doing things dynamically with VRML, but from what I saw, they were mainly hacks with javascript etc that look like they weren't really planned during the original design
This isn't the case either. VRML's design has the basic things that you need to get things done in 3d: interpolators, sensors for spherical, planar, and cylindrical mouse movement, collision sensors, proximity sensors, time sensors and more, nicely set up in an event-driven model. Many interactions don't even require any code. Map a plane sensor to a position interpolator and you can move things around by clicking and dragging.
Now while its true that VRML does not have its own programming language, it does provide a specific interface to code 'bits', the SCRIPT node. This is as designed, mostly because VRML existed before Java was really strong. Some people use javascript (yuck, but simple) some folks use Java, some use C++, but if your browser supported it (a big if) you could use perl or smalltalk or anything. Kind of nice, in my opinion.
Here's a fair example, you can't do anything dynamic that would require changes to the wrl file loaded in the browser
This just isn't true. Your code nodes (in whatever language) can add and remove things from the scene at will, resize them, move their individual points to morph them, etc.
I believe you must've looked at the early VRML, VRML 1.0. This is equivalent to looking at the first release of Java and saying, "oh, its all bollocks" and never looking again.
So why isn't VRML the next big thing? Well, there's several theories, Blaxxun's attacking the most widely held: no good browsers. Java's the de facto standard for scripting info in a VRML browser, and there are all kinds of interesting things you could do, but almost no browser completely supports the VRML97 specification AND the Java specification. There are VRML browsers written using Java3D, but they are largely incomplete, and a bit slow.
Some folks have also said that VRML is something of a solution in search of a problem. What would you do with VRML on the web? Yeah, there's lots of cool stuff, but very few of them pay well, and others (like online gaming) require fast, efficient browsers, and really don't benefit from the openness of the standard.
Zipwow
Re:there're reasons VRML isn't taking off (Score:1)
A small correction (Score:2)
Other reasons that VRML hasn't taken off (Score:1)
- Downloads were slow when VRML first arrived - I remember the huge difference when I first tried VRML on an SGI on an ethernet.
- Any idiot can write text to make a HTML file, 3d stuff is much harder
- It's not well integrated with the browser: few will use it if it requires a 4MB download (and reboot under windows).
- So far the only real applications of 3d are games, modelling, and CGI for movies. Hopefully someone can come up with a decent 3d interface. Part of this is also the development of a good 3d manipulator - the 3d version of the mouse.