1361931
story
funkman writes
"Here is an article on CNN about the new Electrofuel PowerPad battery from IBM. It can runs an IBM ThinkPad 560 Pentium MMX-233 notebook for 15 hours. But the battery is not for sale yet. Finally, no more carrying multiple batteries. "
It isn't from IBM (Score:3)
----
IBM I WILL KISS YOUR FEET (Score:1)
If all the things IBM has been talking about inventing come out within the next ten years computers are going to kick about 100x more ass than they do today.
Too bad Microsoft can't use all it's money to actually make good stuff instead of the loads of shit it pours out. MS probably spends half their R&D money making MSN Messenger work w/ AIM. There's innovation for ya Justive Dept.
No, the battery lifetime will be the same (Score:3)
breakthrough? (Score:2)
Do the math. The standard battery got 3:04, or 184 minutes. The new battery got 15:01, or 901 minutes. What really matters though, is not the difference in run time, but the difference in run time per unit mass. The standard battery was only 0.6625 lbs, so a battery made from hooking 2.2 lbs worth of standard batteries together should be expected to run for 184*2.2/0.6625 = 611 minutes, or 10:11, compared to 15:01. So this is a 47% improvement.
Not bad, but I don't know how they can justify the statement that they have "more than twice the energy density" just by looking at these numbers.
Of course, these devices need to prove themselves on many other fronts before they become practical. Cost, long term reliability, charging times, and malfunction possibilities all need to be considered before endorsing a technology such as this.
Re:Power Generating Keyboards (Score:1)
Re:Laptop Explosive Devices? (Score:1)
when do I get my fuel cell? (Score:1)
Oh, and I guess the market would be somewhat crimped if you were not permitted to carry the compressed gas cartridges required for a fuel cell aboard an airplane. Double-dang.
I'll wait for the fuel cells to come out. (Score:1)
Re:Laptop Explosive Devices? (Score:1)
department. "
Lucky you getting joy from your department.
I'm an evolutionary dead-end and would like to donate mine to medical science, or someone who needs a new one.
Fuel Cell Laptops (Score:1)
Re:I'll wait for the fuel cells to come out. (Score:1)
What a bunch of naysayers! (Score:1)
Energy density versus discharge rate (Score:1)
Laptop Explosive Devices? (Score:2)
Honestly, I'd rather have a backpack'able battery. I carry my laptop in a carrier in a backpack already, there's room for a car-battery..
Would be nice to have. But I'd rather not risk having an explosive charge sitting next to my joy department.
-rd
Re:Eh... (Score:1)
> screens, huge displays, super
> surround sound with extra bass, huge
> processors...the list goes on...
ooh sounds good! i want one!
Re:Fuel for the fuel cells (Score:1)
Hey, wait a minute! (Score:1)
Re:Batteries... (Score:2)
Um, price? (Score:2)
Compaq, not IBM (Score:2)
Re:Laptop Explosive Devices? (Score:1)
But can't better engineering greatly enhance this danger by finding a way to say, aerosolize the Twinkie and turn it into a Food Air Explosive (FAE)? Or at least something you could put in a grenade launcher?
No?
Rats. Technology is so limited sometimes...
King Babar
Lucky me (Score:1)
Sounds like my PowerBook 100 battery (Score:1)
Re:when do I get my fuel cell? (Score:1)
Re:Fuel for the fuel cells (Score:2)
Ideally hydrogen and oxygen would be the only two fuel components needed, but we of course do not live in an ideal world. Using pure oxygen does not offer enough of performance benefit to offset the tremendous costs of air liquefaction to obtain pure oxygen. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and it surrounds us in the form of water, but this hydrogen has been sequestered by oxygen. Obtaining pure hydrogen from water using electrolosis uses a great deal of energy, making it very expensive. NASA pays about $1.05 per pound of hydrogen, versus about $0.13 per pound for gasoline at my local Exxon. For this reason most commercial fuel cells use a reformer to process any number of hydrocarbon or alcohol based fuels into usable hydrogen. Hence methanol, ethanol, methane, etc. The reformation process decreases the efficeincy of the cell somewhat, but they are still much more efficient then chemical batteries.
Fuel cells are well over 100 years old, but until recently the manufacturing technology did not exist to make them really useful. It's basically a plumbing problem. To maximize power output per volume you need to create a large surface area for diffusion. This is usually accomplished by making numerous folds in the exchange membrane. However this makes it more difficult to pipe in hyrdogen and oxygen to where they are needed. The chemistry of the devices is well understood, and it's largely a manufacturing problem now.
The July '99 issue of Scientific American had a special section devoted to fuel cells, and features articles discussing the use of cells in portable items such as phones as well as residential and commerical scale cells for homes and offices.
Re:Nice, but it's no revolution... (Score:1)
"Electrofuel's super-polymer technology dedicates virtually all
the space to the battery itself and dispenses with the usual metal
package for supporting the battery cells, which can be as thin as
1 millimeter"
Scary.. A lithium cell with a 1 mm thick plastic case.. I wonder what would happen if you punctured the case with say, a pen point and shorted out the cell which was then exposed to Oxygen.. Bad things(tm) happen when Lithium metal burns..
Nice, but it's no revolution... (Score:2)
Thinkpad internal 10oz battery gets 17.3 minutes/oz
Powerpad 35oz battery gets 25 min/oz
Bigger batteries usually have better energy density due to less packaging per unit volume.
(Offtopic) Re:Methanol (Score:1)
True? Or just Mr. Philips having us on?
however.......... (Score:1)
Fuel for the fuel cells (Score:1)
First: I'd think that since a fuel cell ideally consumes hydrogen and oxygen (NASA versions), that the more pure (close to / highest percentage of hydrogen) the fuel the better the performance you'll receive.
Second: (In my best 'Bones McCoy' voice) I'm a techie, not a chemist, damnit! How do you expect me to know the difference between types of alcohol?!? Besides the obvious Jack Daniels vs Skyy vs Captain Morgan vs Everclear (foom!) =P
Third: Now that I'm done ranting, I have to admit I'm glad there are people out there who actually bothered to stay awake in HS chemistry class. Who else would check facts for those of us who don't know any better?
Besides, I don't even know if I correctly remembered which type of fuel they were using for that fuel cell! It could have been ethanol and I just don't remember. Alternatively, why not use butane? It's readily available, inexpensive, and provides it's own pressure feed! Just 'stick a bic' into your phone, and you're good for another week! Also, it avoids the alcohol questions altogether!
Yeah, I know it's a 'Me, too!' post... (Score:2)
IIRC, the researchers developing it were trying to run your cell phone all month on an insert pack of methanol... or was it a week...
The important point was, for the volume the fuel cell occupied, the energy density wasn't that great, but it was enough to run a phone (about 1 watt or so). Being that heat is more of an enemy in a laptop than a phone, I'd worry about the necessity of additional cooling measures. (Can't just replace the battery in your existing laptop) The recharge times are incredible, though!
One question: If these things run on methanol (alcohol), will you have to be over 21 to purchase fuel for your laptop?
(Yes, I've thought of denatured alcohol! Sheesh!)
rates (Score:1)
Plus, you have to wonder what all PC World (or whoever tested it) was doing with the laptop while it was running of the glorious "little" battery.. i.e., running CD, DVD, etc. versus just playing FreeCell or xboing.
Re:Batteries... (Score:1)
-----
Linux user: if (nt == unstable) { switchTo.linux() }
Re:No, the battery lifetime will be the same (Score:1)
-----
Linux user: if (nt == unstable) { switchTo.linux() }
oh yeah, 384 MB RAM (Score:1)
-----
Linux user: if (nt == unstable) { switchTo.linux() }
Methanol is not controlled. (Score:1)
No. Booze alcohol is ethanol. Methonol is deadly poison - and what they contaminate ethanol with to "denature" it.
Your enzyme systems, which turn ethanol into acetaldehyde and acetic acid (vinegar), which are only mildly annoying, also turn methanol into formaldehyde and formic acid (ant toxin), which are deadly - especially to nerves. Ingest a little methanol and go blind. Even the fumes will give you a headache. I'd be a lot happier if they fueled them with ethanol - or even isopropanol (rubbing alcohol).
On the other hand, they might run about as well on ethanol as on methanol, unmodified. We'll have to see the details of the devices once they're out.
Sounds good, but will it power my wearable (Score:1)
As a side effect they could just make that one, and let other ppl make it work w/ whatever laptop they want. (and i'd have another choice when i get everything else in my wearable ready to be powered)
Re:however.......... (Score:1)
The tragedy here is that vendors (and presumably their customers) are so uninterested is creating a machine that's really efficient in terms of power consumption. In fact with the latest advances from the FreePlay people (who make the wind-up radios) and real attention to power consumption, it ought to be possible to make a wind-up portable that works just fine. Yet people designing portables just don't seem to get it, and we haven't come very far, power-consumption-wise, since the Omnibook 300 or the eMate 300.
And why can't vendors produce a reflective TFT display that lets users work without power-draining backlighting when possible? I think Nintendo could produce a better portable than today's gang of me-too engineers.
Yea but can I recharge it? (Score:1)
Saw a similar (SAME?) product at COMDEX/Toronto (Score:1)
Anyway, I picked it up and it felt like it was a lot less than 2lbs; maybe 1lb. Although, I did eat my Wheaties that morning...
Re:Oh Look! (Score:1)
Re:Eh... (Score:1)
I really don't see that much of a need for 15h of time (esp. if spares can be manufactured at a not extreme cost), but if it means that a more powerful CPU can be run for a longer (and still meaningful) time, that's spiffy.
Batteries... (Score:1)
The problem isn't power, it's power architecture (Score:2)
The Newton pulled this off by re-examining the architecture of a portable platform. If you make low power consumption a primary driver, instead of packing in the exact same family of peripherals that you use in a desktop platform which has (relatively) infinite power available, you get a machine which doesn't look a whole lot like today's laptops - but which also doesn't require 2.2 pounds of battery to run for 15 hours, either. The Newton 2100 has a 163 MHz processor, too, not one of those 12MHz wimpy things the other handhelds have. But this 163 MHz ARM RISC processor was designed from the ground up to use as little power as possible. The result is dramatic. It's fast when it needs to be, and the rest of the time it eats almost no power at all. Compare this to what an x86 or Pentium uses - even a "low-power" model.
hmm.... (Score:1)
Re:Methanol is not controlled. (Score:1)
Re:Eh... (Score:1)
Re:Methanol is not controlled. (Score:1)
On the subject of methanol poisoning (you're right about oxidation to formaldehyde and formic acid), aspartame (NutraSweet) disassociates under acidic conditions (i.e. stomach) to yield a couple of amino acids and methanol, in a one-to-one ratio. Yea!
Re:TiMe WaRp (Score:1)
Anyway, software "at the time" couldn't render shadows in real time. I prefer the newer machines.
Re:Laptop Explosive Devices? (Score:1)